[Re: GRFS minute 1]

[Poita]

I hate the way the devs talk about how awesome their implementations are.

As soon as that guy started talking about how a map was created to make full use of the cover system I realised that they could make a thousand Ghost Recons and they will never get it right.

The more 'sophisticated' they get the more efficient the inbreeding of ideas becomes until the whole thing is one endless feedback loop of head-in-ass-in-head-in-ass-in-head-in-ass.

I played some top down racing games on my iPad such as reckless racing where it's nothing but corners; the whole of every track is just constant cornering. See, they figured out that taking a corner can be quite tense so they just decided to make the game all about that and nothing else. They forgot to give you the simple joy of driving at speed, even now and then. It's the same with fps games and GR in particular. They don't make a beautiful map anymore as they did with village, embassy, Bridge etc then let you figure out how to play it and what to use as cover. No, now they first make a cover animation then design a map that is a constant showcase for that, they guy as much as stated it exactly.

If they make a better 'slide on your belly' system then they'll make a map that is just a series of places to slide in.

I don't want to be in a map where they have designed the ideal environment for me to press the cover button so I can see how cool it looks for me to get down, press against a serface and shoot over it without aiming. I want to be in 'a world' then figure out how to make the best of it.

OGR gave us a world. These guys are giving us a theme park version of that world.

[CkZWarlord]

I hope your wrong but that does tend to be standard nowadays...

[RileyFletcher_01]

He isn't wrong, trust me. Good word, Poita.

Edited December 12, 2011 by rileyfletcher_01

[krise madsen]

Poita hit the nail on the head IMO. I recently played both GRAW PC games (single player only). GRAW 2 in particular comes tantalizingly close to giving us what we want in most respects: Generally good implementation of movement and firing weapons (not perfect, but almost good enough), enemy AI that did interesting things (like dive for cover, cover when fired upon and switch positions laterally) and a pretty good (though lacking soul switching) squad command system. In fact, in almost every respect it was way ahead of GR. Then why did it leave my so dissatisfied? Because of the maps. Even though it certainly wasn't linear in the traditional sense, it failed to achieve the open-ended battlefield that I could navigate as I saw fit in the way GR did. It just let me go from one ambush (or "gotcha moment" as I like to call it) to another. And that's where the game failed miserably.

At this point in time, I don't think anyone outside the people at Bohemia Interactive, is capable of providing that sort of open ended-ness. More to the point, I don't think anyone wants to.

[RileyFletcher_01]

If you look at the thread WytchDokta and I took over, you'll see how many complaints we came up with about modern PC games. To sum it up, they just leave out the tactical feel of games these days, especially with all their stupid little scripts that are triggered at exactly this point, and pathetic maps that force the player to walk straight forward with a whole force of invincible allies. As for GRAW and GRAW2, it was mostly the environments, as you said. Every single map was nearly identical, the same buildings in each one, just a different setup, but it all was Mexico this, Mexico taht, Mexico buildings on this map, Mexico buildings on that map. GR had a huge and vast array of maps, from the eerie swamp to the wartorn red square, from the wooded railroad bridge to the ruined castle. The maps made me seem like I was REALLY there, with the birds tweeting above you, and the water rushing down the river, and the thunder cracking in the background, making me think I'm being fired at, and the mortar shells ringing over head. GRAW might as well be, to quote another GR.net post, Advanced Streetfighter. I mean, six thousand Mexican houses all down this street, but you can't go in a single one. It was just pathetic street after pathetic street.

[Poita]

Man I just saw some beautiful environment videos of Battlefield 3. I haven't played the game but some of those forest scenes with the wind in the trees etc remind me of how impressed I was with OGR when it first came out. Some sublime map design and OGR game design with some of the enhancements of GRAW could yield an amazing GR experience yet.

Alas I don't know when, or if ever, there will be a cure for the virulent strain of 'patronise-the-crap-out-of-gamer-itus' thas has infected the whole games industry.