RavenousNC

Happy New Year! I guess I should consider it a compliment when someone tells me the map is too hard. I don’t think any mapper tries to make an easy map. ïŠ Still, there are those who wanted a kindlier, gentler map, one that did not have too many well hidden snipers that made it difficult to press-on. Here it is. /long_black_veil.zip]Long Black Veil-lite. Revised to allow an easier flow for those who, IMHO, are the faint of heart. I have asked Rocky to update the downloads section for this map, so if you get it here make sure the download contains both versions of the map to ensure ypu have the latest copy. In addition, I found some small things that needed fixing in the original, so I have patched that up. Changed how first set of F15s are triggered to accommodate mods that add AI. However, if the second round does not come in once the sanctuary is cleared too allow you up the hill into the cemetery, I can not help that. Some trigger areas that were firing off events too early, thus making the frame rate slightly too much. Found some AI I forgot completely about, so they are added. Don’t worry, they are mostly ground forces.Both files are also included in the download zip. Now you can switch over to the lite version when you are tired of taking a beating. In the lite version ground forces are pretty much unchanged, but about 25 snipers/RPG/MG have either been moved or taken out in certain areas. I only hope it is still some sort of challenge for you. Now go kick some butt and get to practicing. I got another one coming, and you’re going to need to be at your best. ENJOY! Rav

Place the files in \Ubisoft\Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter\custom_levels Instructions are also in the README file Rav

sui317, that's a known bug. Nothing to do with the map. I just left a game where they were playing Long Black Veil. Though I joined long after the game began, the game seemed to go on and on. I noticed AI that I didn't place in it. Then I find out that a mod was running that added AI to the game. This is disturbing because the game it designed to trigger certain events based upon death or destruction of enemies or vehicles. In this map, the first set of road blocks are cleared once the garage is cleared (minus the top level), a sniper is killed, and the occupants of the first pan hard that arrives are killed. From what I saw the mod that was running on this server disrupted the game somehow that the road blocks would not clear. Later in the map, when you are in a courtyard sanctuary, you can not proceed until all the AI in the courtyard is eliminated. The game took so long because of the added AI that we I never stuck around to see what were up. I could only imagine that the area wasn’t cleared due to the mod. This may be an isolated incident, but the reason I am disturbed is because the map was not being allowed to operate as it should. It already had over 200 AI placed in very hard to find areas, and is a very tough map to play without the mod. If the mod only doubled the AI then we not only have over 400 AI to deal with, but the possibility that the map would not finish correctly because triggers are not being fired. One player in this map even commented on the fact that they were too many snipers. Like I said, it’s hard enough without the added AI. There is no need to add more to the extent that the map is not as enjoyable. Run mods like this at your own risk, but keep in mind that this is a RavenousNC map. I make my maps mean to the point that added AI is overkill. In the end, all I want is for you to enjoy the map, and I’m afraid that with some triggers not working as they should, you will not get to experience the added extras of F15 fly-bys and bombing runs that not only look good, but remove obstacles that otherwise force you to take a long way around, or even stop you from finishing the map. Rav

Well, it's finally done. You have heard me mention the map from hell? This is it. All kidding aside, thanks to Grimm for the map, he designed it, I put in the enemies and coded. You can get this on the map on this site sometime soon, or you can also /long_black_veil.zip]download it here. Many thanks to the [GR] gang for help in testing. Feedback welcomed. Rav NOTICE: All those who tested this map, please delete any files in your custom_levels directory named cemetary rendezvous.bundle. Otherwise you will have a conflict.

More infoormation on this would be greatly appreciated. I understand how it is used now, to an extent. Here is a scenerio I would like more info on: Dynamics and Props seem to be the only thing I can set to indestructable. What I want to be able to do is use SetSlot to change a dynamic into a vehicle, then move the vehicle. This becomes impossible since the vehicle and group IDs are not set with the SetSlot. I'm guessing there is a way to do this, and am hoping you could tell us. This sort of info would open a lot of doors for us. Best of all, it may be just a matter of posting the info, rather than a patch. You know better than I. I simply feel that if we had this knowledge it would most certainly make the mission ([GR] type in my case) scripting as enjoyable as you set out to make it. Thanks, Rav

I've noticed that when a panhard with 6 people (2 crew, 4 passenger) is blown up before anyone can get out that the number of dead is fewer than if the individuals had exited the vehicle. This makes me wonder about how things are actually counted, and how they work in respect with the tag shown below. <gametype_info name="enemies_to_kill" value="66"/> Using the code above, for example, lets say that 60 people have been killed in the game, and all that are left is the panhard crew and passengers. If I blowup the panhard with everyone in it I won't get the count of six. Instead I get either one or two. (can't remember, but I think it was one). If this is the case the game will not end because it is looking for five more to die, and the players are left roaming the map for non-existing AI. Could this be the reason we have found some maps not ending as they should? In the map I have been working on (the map from hell) it ends before it should because my count is set too low, and the other enemies have not spawned yet due to an area not being crossed. But if I were to set the count, what would I set it to? Six for a full panhard, or one? If I set it to one then the game would end earlier if the AI of the panhard are killed individually? Confused? So am I. There needs to be a consistency in this area to make it work right. Am I completely off base here, or does anyone else see this too? Rav

Let's be clear on one thing I have never said anything that meant I was turning my back on modding. Oh, I have thought about it, yes, and if these problems were as consuming as Tom_Anger experienced I probably would have. Dedication? Not sure. You know how some people cut themselves for some odd reasons? That's about how it is with me and GRAW modding. But there can be a point where I run out of blood, and every problem I experience I will bring out for everyone to know and possibly share their experiences. I might get pi**ed, but I have got to let it out. I put a lot of time into working on maps. Lots! The problem is that it is too easy to get ticked at aspects of the editor/game. Yup, you'll see me go on a tirade when things are messed up, but I'll also share any fix I find, and give credit where it is due. As long as we remain cordial to one another and deal with facts, we’ll get more answers with GRIN folks. It’s obvious that the GRIN people have got to have thick skin to deal with us, but there is no need to penetrate it. I never intend to belittle them. As ticked as I may get they don’t deserve that. Rav

My suspicion that it was the AI placement is pretty much confirmed, in my opinion. I went back to a map I was working on that had this error. I found the last best known world file, rendered it and found no error. I then moved the items around that I believed caused the error. It was hard to determine why the error occurred, but after making several changes to that one set of AI, the error returned. One thing to make sure of is to place the AI for vehicles, crew and passenger, as closed to, if not within, the vehicles they belong. One immediate crash was when I forgot to move the AI with the vehicle. While it may be that the rotation of buildings and such may play a factor, I personally think that it has more to do with the AI and how they are placed within or around other objects. Rav EDIT: Note that all the editing was done with the same set of AI to eleminate any confusion.

Here is a new discovery on this issue: I began work on another map. My friends create a lot of maps, and I code them. On this map I placed a few guys, then set it to render overnight. I then decided to take a look at the render in game. In this case, the crash that this discussion is about happened immediately as I began to move. After reformatting and taking out a building here and there, I did find some instances where the crash didn't occur. Then I tried replacing and turning buildings. Still it crashed. After some thought I remembered the map had no problem before the AI were added. I made a draft of the map before I placed the AI, and walked through it. The discovery here is that the AI placement may be the problem, not the static. Rav

You have GOT to be s h * t i n g me. You mean that there is a flaw so bad in the editor that I would have to go thru the map and dismember it, re-load the game, just to see if I MAY have taken out the issue? And repeat until I find the problem? GRIN – I’m sorry. I hate to be the one that bitches so much, but I’m having a lot to complain about. I even went as far as to reformat my PC since re-installing didn’t work. I figured it had something to do with my machine. That maybe it was corrupting the render somehow. I’ll stop commenting right now. I am thoroughly pi**ed off. This is unacceptable. Rav

Has any experienced this? There is an area of the map that is just like any other. There are no Areas that go thru it. No triggers or events of any kind associated with it…just a normal area of the map. Imagine a straight line that spans the width of the map. No matter where you cross this line the game crashes. This is not a game crash, per-say. It is a Windows crash. There is nothing recorded in the crash log. The server does not crash, only the game. I have tried many different renders, removed compositions that were near, still nothing. What could this be from, and how can I fix it? Thanks, Rav

Thanks for the response GRIN_GeckoGore. SetSlot is used in mission 2 when the fuel trailer is set to blow up. From the start of the game it is set to indestructable, but then set back when it comes time to blow it. SetSlot has been very helpfull for me in this latest rendition of the map. I have two paths closed off by using two vehicles at each. When the time comes for the are strike I set them back to normal with SetSlot using slot="16". Here's a tip for everyone: My F15 bombing run wasn't clearing enough of the trucks blocking the path. Given some thought I figured, since GRAW has a lot of physics, I need a bigger explosion. Using the horizontal cistern, and the ability to adjust the height of a prop, I set the grid to one, then lowered it til the last part was seen. I placed then under the trucsk. Two per area. When the F15 bombed, thoses puppies went flying. It's important to note that the cisternes were also set to indestructable, then back when needed. GRIN_GeckoGore, not sure if you can comment on this, but can we expect another patch that might clear the objectives and showmessages? Guys, I'm happy to see this response from GRIN_GeckoGore. I'm sorry it had to be under this circumstance, but I'm pleased with the effort and honest response. Rav

I've decided to make this easier for everyone. It is important to me that folks experience this problem instead of asking for crash logs. I have made a test map that has 4 areas, clearly marked by props on the map. Game Start - The dynamic Hemi is set to indestructable Area1 - The F15 is called in to attempt blowing up the Hemi Area2 - The Hemi is set back to normal and can be destroyed and another F15 is called in to blow it to bits Area3 - An objective is added Area4 - The objective is taken away, and the a mesage is brought to the hud using the ShowMessage element type Serve this map on the same machine you are playing. Invite others to watch. This is important for feedback of what they see and what you see. (EDIT)You will see the message appear with sound effect and typing the objective to the hud. It is my experience that the other players will likely not see it. Some have even stated that the text under the green marker box was not there as well. (END EDIT) Once you have gone through this while serving from your game, start a stand-alone server and repeat the process using the server to serve the map. You should find success with areas 1 and 2, but a server crash will occur when you attempt area 3. If you have the knowedge for extracting the bundle, comment out the elements inside the area3 event, accept for activating area 4 and rebundle. Now all will go fine as before and area 3 will be skipped. When you attempt area 4 your server will again crash. I used code very similar to my original post. GRIN folks - please look at this and advise us all. Get the map here - (test map) Rav

In a former post ("GRIN - Why do you make it so hard?") I complained about the fact that objectives that were said to be added to the 1.35 patch didn't work on a stand-alone server. When it tried to display it the server crashed. As usual there was no response from GRIN folks, and though Wolfsong has been trying to help in the matter, the only I have found out is that GRIN QA says they tested it on a stand-alone. Since I had to abort the objectives use from the map, I was forced to then do some redesigning and manipulating to the map to get the flow working. The problem was that I needed an area way off to the side cleared, which meant I needed to block off areas of the map to force users to that area. Once that area is cleared I would have the way cleared so if someone died they didn't have to always run a marathon. To accomplish this I tried to use the ShowMessage that was also presented as a new feature to [GR] maps. This would display a massage to everyone giving them information on what to do. Then I would make the dynamic Hemitt indestructible using the SetIndestructable. When the area was cleared I could use a composite of an F15 to come in and blowup the Hemitt after I made it destructible again. Here is what I did. Remember, I spent a lot of time working on objectives only to find they don’t work, and this time I redesigned and changed lots of the map because the objectives didn’t work. At the start of the game I set the Hemitts to indestructible. <element type="SetIndestructable" name_id="roadBlock" start_time="3"/> <element type="SetIndestructable" name_id="roadBlock2" start_time="3"/> When a player entered an area I would display a message. <element type=â€ShowMessage†msg=â€Clear the parking garage in the southeast of the city.†/ > Once the area was cleared I then set the Hemitt back to normal by using some code I found in mission 2. <element type="SetSlot" name_id="roadBlock" slot="16" start_time="30"/> I have no clue what a slot is, or what 16 is. That is another one of those things GRIN chose not to tell us about. All I know for sure is that by using slot 16 the Hemitt was ready to be blown up. I also discovered by accident that if you leave the property slot=â€16†out of the tag it will disappear completely. Poof, it’s gone. Now I send in the F15 to bomb the Hemitt to bits. <element type="Composition" id="f15_one" start_time="45"/> Now I would like to ask the mappers out there that care to take these pieces of code and map a really small test map with simple areas to walk through. Test it in LAN, then get some buds to test it while you play and host on the same machine. Once you see this working to your satisfaction, copy the files to your stand-alone server and test from there. See if you come up with the same results I had. Using the above examples in my map I could never get past the point where the message is to be shown when playing on a stand-alone server. This identical to trying to use the Objectives. When I play and host from the game I’m playing there is no problem. At his point I’m frustrated again and try thinking of other things. The best I had was to ditch the messages altogether. I also found that people could possibly get through a Hemmit in some situations, so I tested putting in a helper_mover wall and removing it with the SetSlot. Recall that I found that it just popped things away when I didn’t give it a slot number. So now I was set. Everything worked like a charm when I played and served at the same time. Now came the real test; I popped it on a stand-alone server and guess what, it didn’t crash. No, instead this time it didn’t pop the helper_mover wall out. Then on some tries the composite didn’t even run, or the Hemitt didn’t go back to being destructible until much later than it should have. Are you taking notes? The Objectives crash a stand-alone server. The ShowMessage crash a stand-alone server. The Composite may or may not run on a stand-alone server. There is code to SetIndestructable a dynamic, but not a vehicle. It would be nice to set a vehicle to indestructible because you could then move it out of the way, and reset it back to being destructible once it’s moved. We have no documentation on most things such as what SetSlot is, or what it does with different values other than 16. And where do they go when you don’t use a slot value? With the Objectives and ShowMessage not working, 1/3rd of the new items mentioned for [GR] do not work on stand-alone servers. I don’t know about the other 4. I’m not about to waste my time to find out. As for the other things like SetSlot and not using a value to pop an invisible wall away, that might not be even something legal, per say. But it would sure be nice to know about these and other settings. Agree? Rav

In the map the player is forced to go around the long way to clear enemies. Once that long way is cleared, the path blocking the shorter route is to then be made accessible. In order to block the path I placed a dynamic Hemett and set it to indestructable. I can't seem to set the dynamic back to normal so it can be destroyed. If I could I had thought of bringing in an F15 to blow it to smithereens, but am unsure how to do that. But can expierment I had originally thought I could place it as a vehicle and just have it move out of the way, but I could not make a vehicle indestrucable. Only the dynamic. As it is right now I have placed an element type of SetSlot and sending it to 16. I got that number from mission 2 of the game when dealing with the fueltrailer, but I don't like that because it just pops away, and I have no idea what the heck slot 16 is. It's the only solution I have at this point. If you have any idea how I can accomplish any or all of the above ideas above, please help. Thanks, Rav

How can I block the path with a vehicle, then move or destroy it so the path can be passable? Please give examples. Thanks, Rav

And I'm getting pretty dizzy from doing so. I've got two maps I'm working on. One that I have had to completely redo in regards of enemy placement due to finding out that objectives do not work in [GR] on a stand-alone server. Unless they get things working as they should, I'm done with modding GRAW after these maps. Rav

Despite my feeling toward how this game was put together, or the state of the patches, it would be nice to have a polite conversation with GRIN folks about what, if anything is coming in another patch. To know what is going on and that we can have some sort of input, even if it is only via a forum. Problem is that you get folks with an opinion like or worse than mine that want to beat up on them. I don't care to do that. Voicing my opinion has already done that, I guess. I can understand why they don't chime in. Just wish they would. Rav

I disagree on two fronts: 1) While most of the tutorial for [GR] explained how to place objects into the map in a somewhat understandable fashion, they failed to explain things that would clear any obvious questions. I know they can not anticipate every question a user is going to have, but some are pretty obvious. The majority of questions cover the scripting aspect of the mapping process. You can get things to work in a semi-decent way, but the things that may appear to be complex to the novice are not at all. The novice does not know this because it isn't documented properly. For example the tutorial may tell you how to setup an area to trigger new groups, but the mapper is going to want more, such as tanks or helicopters. It may be easy for someone like yourself to understand what it means to open a bundle file, but I assure you the novice have no understanding what that means, and/or are afraid of what may happen to their game if they attempt to do it and screw it up. 2) Games are indeed more complex, and the means to make them can be even more complex. I have nothing to go by in regards to other games at this point, except for the Unreal Editor. Seems many games made by this editor have maps/mods and are supported. With the GRAW editor, however, it is not so much a complicated program to maneuver, it's what you do on the other side of the editor... scripting. Yes, I have an advantage over a novice in that I have experience scripting. That experience does not afford me to understand immediately how to write an element tag, know it's properties and values for each property. It doesn’t leap off the page as "Oh, this is an x, y, z co ordinance", or tell me whether or not I can't mix properties. The only way I found out about this information was via the forum and from your tutorials. As grateful as I am for your efforts to provide for us, you should not have had to. The novice, not knowing where to go, may never find your information and simply give up when the feel they have exhausted their search. So yes, it is complex to whatever degree the user lacks in knowledge, but the complexities could and should be explained by the makers of the game/editor so that the info is readily available to the user. It should have been. Why would they want to make a product that wasn't able to mod when that is what the consumer expected? You may not have expected it, but that is how you approach it. I personally feel that you are in a minority of people who feel that way. From what I read from people in the forums, modding was not only desired, but expected. So much so that even the makers of the game felt compelled to provide the community with the ability to mod after getting so much heat for not doing so in the first place. And surprised we were. No, we weren't neutral from the start. We were getting back to our beloved Ghost franchise and without pause plunked down our $50. We cracked the seal, thus committing finally to the purchase, then installed with anxiousness to play the game. But even the install was plagued to some. They had to get a patch in order to install it. Whoops While it played SP OK (for most of us) we quickly found that it did not have; the ability for multiplayer, which we expected; a stand alone server, which we expected; a means to edit and create maps, which we expected; as well as a slew of other expectations that we found were not there. This includes the smoke grenades we see in the movie plaing in the interface of the game once it starts. Should we not have expected that? So we didn't expect anything like what we got, and we were definitely surprised. -------------- GRAW is not a bad game. The patches to the game have made it better than its release, and we are definitely happy that they provided us a means to mod. If only they told us how to in a manner that we could all understand, not a select few, and made sure that the new additions actually worked as intended. Perhaps then we wouldn't be reading a post like this. Rav

They may not support modding, but they did provide an editor, and some half-baked tutorials. That said, they support it in some fashion. I used to work for a gaming company, and presently work for the largest privately own software company in the USA. (I think the world, but can't remember if that is correct) If we treated our customers with the same attitude as the makers/publishers of this game, and/or pushed a product out the door in the shape this product was released or patched, we would never be able to provide to the fortune 500 and others. No matter how anyone tries to explain or reason about how or why GRAW was in the shape it was when released, it is even apparent to the lay-person that it was not what it was expected to be, nor as bug free as to be called even normal for a release. Back to my original plea, as Papa6 has tried to re-route us, you don't just drop a product in a person's lap, write incomplete instructions, then walk away and say "good luck". And though they didn't walk away entirely, there efforts to fix things, or even appease the audience by giving them what they expected, seem to always be plagued with the introduction to new problems. A thorough testing of the product would bring these problems to light so they could be addressed before the consumer recieves the product/patch. It's obvious it was not tested thoroughly, even in this patch which is the subject of this post. Otherwise the server would be operating with the objectives, or it would be noted in the readme file of the patch that it was buggy. You can't explain it away. They have only two thing to do... fix what they have broken and be surer about the shape of the product before releasing it or any patches. That does not mean that everything will be bug free, but it does decrease the margin of error. Rav

Exactly, Papa6! And we have a right to expect thorough testing before delivery. Why should we be the guinea pigs, or pay our hard earned cash to become beta testers? Rav

If UBI Soft didn't have that on the list of requirements for the game, then they are surely not listening to the gaming community, or caring about the history of the Ghost series and how fans will accept it. It's fair to say that there are many game forums out there with people having something to complain about, and you can't please everyone, but if UBI Soft truely did not have this in their plans then I hope they hear the community load and clear with this GRAW debacle. Debacle because we should not have had the troubles we have had with this game. Though they do make an effort to give us what we want it appears it's only because we "nag". If what Papa6 says is true, then it seems we are being heard in some fashion. Unfortunately, some of the fixes are not tested fully. Case in point - the objectives work when serving from the game, but not from the server. Whoever was supposed to test the server with these changes didn't do so. Thus we have another failed attempt to give the user what they wanted, no matter how good the intentions were. And it is these small inabilities to insure quality assurances that add up to make mountains of complaints. They stack onto one another to the point that it makes it really difficult to enjoy the game.

I am making [GR] maps only. When objectives were added it was not mentioned that they were limited to sp/coop missions. In fact, the [GR] tutorial mentions the use of objectives with the 1.35 patch. Based on this we are led to believe that objectives are a part of [GR] mapping. It wasn't until I got a reply from you, and read your tutorials on the matter, that I got it to work at all. My experience is that it only works when serving on the same game you are playing, and others don't get the same full impact as the person serving. When placed on a server it crashes when trying activate the objective event/element. Someone obviously dropped the ball on this, and sadly I must add, again. This has more to do with what has become a sort of normal expectancy. They made the other Ghost games with the ability to map/mod. This also includes the Rainbow series and many others. It only stands to reason that we would expect the same for GRAW. In fact, many posts were made by folks complaining that an editor was not included when GRAW was originally released. It was obviously expected, and I am certain it was even mentioned in forums long before the release that it was desired to be there. I do know that we have to depend upon each other when it comes to understanding how and what to do for creating maps/mods. The problem is that we should not have to. At least not to the extent we do with GRAW. Look at the last version of Unreal Tournament. If you bought the DVD version you got a tremendous amount of video tutorials to aid with making maps for the game. It was expected that the ability to make the maps would be there, but we did not expect the team to provide us with that sort of information. While I never took advantage of it, I surely intend to when UT2007 comes out. And the Unreal Editor has been updated big-time. Note to readers/mappers - Wolfsong has been very helpful to the mapping community. If you do not know of him, or his help, I highly suggest you look into the GRAW - Mission Modding portion of this site for some very helpful info he has graciously provided. I'm not kissing up. I simply believe some folks get over looked and/or are underappreciated. His post are, IMHO, helping to keep the mapping/modding alive for GRAW, and he is filling the shoes of GRIN in this area. As much as he may enjoy it, I believe he should not have to work so hard to inform us.

With the tools provided to us by many other games, we have good reason and just cause to nag, nag, nag. I doesn’t matter if modding came from hacking. What matters is that it was expected, among other things, that GRAW would have an ability to make maps. The tutorials for the editor are only half-baked, and we have to rely on the select few, such as Wolfie, to understand the things that GRIN should have told us from the get-go. After spending SO MUCH time with this one map, then realizing I have to go back to the drawing board as far as enemy placement and flow goes, me and my friends are almost ready to call it quits altogether. I hate being so critical, but I hope whoever is working on GRAW 2 is taking notes. I'm willing to give another version of GRAW a chance, but it will be my last. And if GRIN is working on it, and the game has issues like this game has had since release, I'll never by a product with GRIN written on it. I'm an [GR] player. Don't care much for SP/coop when you are limited in the ways you are with this game. I was all set to make some tools for mapping. I had even bought a domain name of www.grawmaps.com that I had planed to build into a mapping community aid. Right now it's just a page with very little on it, and I doubt I'll even go ahead with my plans. Not just because of the objectives problem, but all the other problems as well. I'm wishing I never bought the domain. There are at least 3 maps in our plans for the Closed Casket series. After the last map is completed there are no plans to continue. We'll play until a new game takes to our liking. And our map making with pick up on the game that not only we find enjoyable, but has catered themselves to satisfying a mapping community as well. Rav FOR SALE: www.grawmaps.com

Sorry to be so cynical, but my guess is that GRIN either intended not to put them in [GR] maps, or someone dropped the ball when it came to updating the server. I always thought it was strange that my friends were not seeing the objective text boxes, but were able to see the objectives listing when pressing "M", and see the green boxes that marked each point for an objective. It wouldn't be so bad if this game did not have its history of being in poor shape since its original release date. Since then it has come a long way. However, it should have never had these types of problems in the first place. Which is the biggest reason some get so disgusted with the game. Quite honestly, if games such as UT2007, Quake Wars or Crysis were out, and they had editors, I myself would have dropped GRAW already. At least the UT series has had an editor and ways to create for a long time. Sure, the game types are a bit different, but I simply like the action and building maps. I don't look for making it real. After all, it's only a game. My problem with this game is that once again I was let down, and that I keep telling myself I should have known better. I'm not one to cut and run, but it gets a lot easier to do when they remain consistent at not giving or telling you all you need to run or create for this game.