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AMD has been chasing Intel for a long time in microprocessors,But when your losing the race in megahertz, it pays to have other tricks to beef up peformance, Fred Weber, vice president and cheif technology officer of AMD"s computation products group, says that the upcoming Opteron chips from the companie"s new line of Hammer 64-bit microprocessors will be able to blow Intel"s top chips away, He contends that an Opteron chip operating at just 1.8GHz will be able to crank out spec benchmark scores of 1,202 for integer performance and 1,170 for floating point performance, compared to only 900 scores for Intel"s 2.8GHz Pentium 4 chips. That means AMD can lag behind Intel in megahertz but still beat it on performance, thanks to improvements such as better memory management on the Opteron.Now if only AMD can get the chip out

i know what chip id like

Edited by snakebite1967
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AMD has been chasing Intel for a long time in microprocessors,But when your losing the race in megahertz, it pays to have other tricks to beef up peformance, Fred Weber, vice president and cheif technology officer of AMD"s computation products group, says that the upcoming Opteron chips from the companie"s new line of Hammer 64-bit microprocessors will be able to blow Intel"s top chips away, He contends that an Opteron chip operating at just 1.8GHz will be able to crank out spec benchmark scores of 1,202 for integer performance and 1,170 for floating point performance, compared to only 900 scores for Intel"s 2.8GHz Pentium 4 chips. That means AMD can lag behind Intel in megahertz but still beat it on performance, thanks to improvements such as better memory management on the Opteron.Now if only AMD can get the chip out

i know what chip id like

WTH? The Opteron on the Sledgehammer core is a server chip. Why in the heck are they comparing it to a Pentium 4 Home user chip? Yes the Opteron is better than the Itanium 2 (a server chip by Intel) and the Xeon. But more is still known about AMD's cpu's for the "near" future than Intel's on the Prescott core so really that is hard for AMD to guess. You Snake, would want the AMD Athlon 64 model. Also if this keeps up Intel will force AMD to always stick with the 2200, 3900 etc. lines so they can say they are comprable to a 2.2GHz Intel CPU and a 3.9GHz Intel CPU lol Intel is so powerful they made AMD name there chips to Intel's haha. I personally think the Athlon 64 will do better than the new Intel on the Prescott though, but who knows

Behold the the Opteron, in 4 CPU Server config...

4-way-opteron.jpg

Now me and my :ph34r: 's have some stealing to do :D

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I cant see that image you posted, stinger.

Yeah a friend of mine just got the AMD2000+(note the "plus" makes it sound like its really more than 2ghz) and he keeps saying "oh booyeah i got this 2 gigahertz computer man!

every time i tell him its 1.5ghz he just denies it totally.

he's pretty computer-illiterate.

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i just found it an interesting article of where we could be going soon and ya a 64 athlon would be cool

and correct em if im wrong here but in the original articles i read they were on about clawhammer and sledgehammer one for server one for home power users, now i dont know how this is gonna be named at the moment its all under the opteron name , or is it ?

Edited by snakebite1967
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I cant see that image you posted, stinger.

Yeah a friend of mine just got the AMD2000+(note the "plus" makes it sound like its really more than 2ghz) and he keeps saying "oh booyeah i got this 2 gigahertz computer man!

every time i tell him its 1.5ghz he just denies it totally.

he's pretty computer-illiterate.

Yeah AMD has to market a bad way cause of Intel's superpower lol. Type this into the URL bar cause I think the link is image is funky,

http://www.ixbt.com/cpu/amd/hammer-series-...way-opteron.jpg

I got an AMD presentation of their new CPU and one of Intel too, they are just in the works but if you email me @ vipyr800@yahoo.com then I will send you a copy. About the computer illiteracy he cant beat my mom. We are in the living room and I tell them they need that Dell and they are kinda hesitating (I thought they said OH YEAH WE NEED THAT) pfft parents anyways, my mom says how many megahertz is it? (She used to work with computers just a bit though) so I make up a number 1234.174. She says wow, what is ours now, I say 300 (It is really 800 though lol) she goes wow. Then she asks how much RAM it has, I tell her 3200MB of Triple Speed Ram. She then asks what gfx card (she thought she had a Ti4600 in her old computer at work I laughed lol) I tell her it is a ProSuperCharged GFX card and she says sounds like a powerful system. I say yep, then I get a "well maybe we will see."

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They wont, my mom is just lucky to remember the word RAM. I mean they wouldn't understand the upgrade of 256 to 256 DDR memory and they would blow it off. Their PC needs some serious help or it is gonna crash for its last time. It has over 200 ActiveX COM errors according to WinDoctor that cannot be repaired hundreds of loose end shortcuts. It is in really bad shape. :(

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I cant see that image you posted, stinger.

Yeah a friend of mine just got the AMD2000+(note the "plus" makes it sound like its really more than 2ghz) and he keeps saying "oh booyeah i got this 2 gigahertz computer man!

every time i tell him its 1.5ghz he just denies it totally.

he's pretty computer-illiterate.

AMD quotes the "2000+" chip because if one buys on just GHz, Pentium will seem to be a faster processor. Therefore, AMD says that their 1.666GHz chip will basically have the same work output as a P4 2.0GHz. AMD was pretty head-to-head on MHz up to around the 1GHz mark. From there, Pentium took off in the lead with consumers buying computers on just processor MHz/GHz comparisons. AMD decided to improve the current design and sqeeze out all of the performance it could on its processors. Since then, AMD seems to be losing, but it has a very loyal fan base which understands that a processor is not just rated by Gigahertz.

Interesting article on AMD's Scyld Beowulf 64-Bit Support for Upcoming AMD Opteron™ Processor-Based Server Clusters. Taken from AMD.com:

AMD Announces Scyld Beowulf 64-Bit Support for Upcoming AMD Opteron™ Processor-Based Server Clusters

— AMD 64-bit computing designed to deliver increased performance, decreased computing time for x86-based clustered environments —

SUNNYVALE, CA. -- January 21, 2003 --AMD (NYSE: AMD) today announced that Scyld Computing Corporation is developing a 64-bit version of Scyld Beowulf, a leading cluster operating system, for systems based on the upcoming AMD Opteron™ processors.

The new version of Scyld Beowulf, expected to be available mid-first half 2003, will be optimized for AMD’s 64-bit technology to bring enhanced Linux kernel, libraries and utilities specific to clustered x86 computing. Scyld Beowulf system provides developers with a stable, standard, supported platform for the deployment of advanced clustering applications. Customers who use the Beowulf operating system on AMD Opteron processor-based clustered systems will be able to realize amazing computing performance with more addressable memory, which would allow them to process large jobs in a short timeframe.

“With AMD Opteron processors and Scyld Beowulf software, customers should have the ability to take a complicated set of calculations and run it parallel across multiple machines, providing the first 64-bit, x86-based classic cluster model,” said Marty Seyer, vice president of server business for AMD’s Computation Products Group. “Enterprise and high performance computing customers are also planned to be able to run existing 32-bit applications on clusters based on the AMD 64-bit technology, protecting their existing technology investment while simplifying their migration to 64-bit clustered computing — another example of customer-centric innovation from AMD.”

“Linux clusters using Scyld Beowulf and AMD Opteron processors are planned to provide customers a powerful, more affordable alternative to ‘big iron’ machines,” said Don Becker CTO Scyld. “Increasingly, customers’ computing needs are expanding beyond demand accommodated by a single, large shared memory machine. AMD Opteron processor-based Beowulf clusters are designed to provide 64-bit performance and x86 economies of scale.”

The upcoming version of Scyld Beowulf is planned to support both 32-bit and 64-bit application development on AMD Opteron processors, and to also allow customers to experience simplified migration of existing 32-bit applications and easier development of new 64-bit applications for systems based on AMD Opteron processors.

:)

Edit: @Stinger, let me know when you get a hold of some of that RAM...I'll split it 30/70 with ya! :hehe: j/k

Edited by Dark Ranger
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well a good format would fix most of those errors

Yeah it would I am sure, but they dont want to loose are their stuff and I haven't told them how to back it up. Most of the programs are dead ends and Office is $150 I think and they dont want to shell that out even though Excel is "broke." It is 99% software but they could use somewhat of an upgrade. They also aren't fond of buying a new OS for $x amount.

Edited by Stinger
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I just may have gotten "lucky" I found on ebay that I can get Win XP Home for $99.99 and Pro for $160. So maybe we will go that wat afterall :D But who knows I have a screwed up life. I think things will be good then I have some wierd horrible thing happen. :(

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I got WinXP Pro of newegg for $130, and it's garanteed not to be some copy.

That Cray info is actually quite old. Same as the fact that WinXP 64 is being made optimized FOR the AMD Hammer, not Intel's Itanium :)

BTW, here's the whole low down on the Intel mhz vs AMD's PR rating.

The Mhz Wars ended with the 1ghz PIII and similarly speedy AMD Tbird. Then Intel introduced the P4 1.3ghz. The core structure for it is so horrible, they created a lot of empty space inside just to allow room for more mhz, a really inefficent core, just so they could bump speed. If you had a PIII 1ghz and bought either an early P4 1.3 or 1.4ghz, the PIII would perform faster ;)

AMD on the other hand stuck with the PIII type efficient core and improved it, and keeps improving it, as they have today. So, if you want to see really how far we have come from original cpus in speed, look at the AMD mhz, thats what a comparable Pentium, PII, or PIII would actually be running today on their cores. This efficient core, redesigned into a 8th gen chip, is what AMD gets their hammer tech from. Not to mention the on-chip memory controller making memory usage much more efficient. Hammer speeds are planned to hit a 4000 pr by years end.

Unfortunately, most people are idiots, and go by big numbers. So, for this reason, AMD had to make the PR rating. It shows people how fast it will perform, despite the mhz deficiency.

As for the Prescott core... all it means is Intel's crap ###### job at planning (or perhaps a good one to get more money?) makes them redesign the whole chip just to get a few more mhz out of it and make consumers buy new boards at the same time due to a socket change.

AMD, due to such a big market for enthusiast, always get the best technology. Most boards available feature 8x AGP, SATA, 5.1 onboard sound, ddr400 support and so on... nVidia won't be making an Intel chipset due to their greed on licensing, whereas AMD welcomes partners.

Major Maximum, it's 1.67ghz @ 2000XP, but it does perform on par or better than a P4 2ghz. So, despite his actual acknowledgment in that fact, he does have a 2ghz competitive cpu.

I think I've rambled enough...

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I got WinXP Pro of newegg for $130, and it's garanteed not to be some copy.

That Cray info is actually quite old. Same as the fact that WinXP 64 is being made optimized FOR the AMD Hammer, not Intel's Itanium :)

BTW, here's the whole low down on the Intel mhz vs AMD's PR rating.

The Mhz Wars ended with the 1ghz PIII and similarly speedy AMD Tbird. Then Intel introduced the P4 1.3ghz. The core structure for it is so horrible, they created a lot of empty space inside just to allow room for more mhz, a really inefficent core, just so they could bump speed. If you had a PIII 1ghz and bought either an early P4 1.3 or 1.4ghz, the PIII would perform faster ;)

AMD on the other hand stuck with the PIII type efficient core and improved it, and keeps improving it, as they have today. So, if you want to see really how far we have come from original cpus in speed, look at the AMD mhz, thats what a comparable Pentium, PII, or PIII would actually be running today on their cores. This efficient core, redesigned into a 8th gen chip, is what AMD gets their hammer tech from. Not to mention the on-chip memory controller making memory usage much more efficient. Hammer speeds are planned to hit a 4000 pr by years end.

Unfortunately, most people are idiots, and go by big numbers. So, for this reason, AMD had to make the PR rating. It shows people how fast it will perform, despite the mhz deficiency.

As for the Prescott core... all it means is Intel's crap ###### job at planning (or perhaps a good one to get more money?) makes them redesign the whole chip just to get a few more mhz out of it and make consumers buy new boards at the same time due to a socket change.

AMD, due to such a big market for enthusiast, always get the best technology. Most boards available feature 8x AGP, SATA, 5.1 onboard sound, ddr400 support and so on... nVidia won't be making an Intel chipset due to their greed on licensing, whereas AMD welcomes partners.

Major Maximum, it's 1.67ghz @ 2000XP, but it does perform on par or better than a P4 2ghz. So, despite his actual acknowledgment in that fact, he does have a 2ghz competitive cpu.

I think I've rambled enough...

Now it is my turn! :devil: The Prescott core is very secretive. Most info about it is unknown. RooK is just an AMD fanboy j/k :P The Prescott core will not just add a FEW MHZ it is supposed to take Intel into 10GHz. YEAH 10 GHZ! Not just a few MHz. I think the AMD will turn out better but I cant find much about the Intel Prescott for my report even. The 2GHz Celly or P4 is not always outdone by the XP 2000+ though either.

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The Celeron? What the hell... It can't compete with anything even remotely resembling a good cpu, not even the Duron. It is always outdone by the 2000XP... As for the P4 2ghz, not always but at least 75% of the time.

From what I've heard, the Prescott is a die shrink and a few optimizations like previous cores carrying on the latest tech. Nothing more.

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The Celly was a joke forgot Emoticons. But not even 75% I have heard 50-60 percent.

This is quoted from Intel

Prescott is part of a strategic plan to bring the Pentium 4 architecture up to ten gigahertz, and Intel already has a very good idea about what techniques are going to be used to achieve that goal. Although plans as these are very easily subject to changes, it seems like the chip planned as Prescott's sucesor will be the first chip on earth to run at ten trillion cycles per second. The CPU, codenamed 'Tejas', will be built by using 65nm technology, enabling the use of even more transistors that will allow the CPU to go higher than ever and with the use of less power than current processors need.
Take that! :P
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RRGGHHH! 4ht Time I keep getting my IE window closed soon as I hit add reply! I had to redo this whole dang thing. And it keeps clearing my clipboard!

Thanks Snake sure :D , RooK I Intel has lied b4 and exagerated but so has AMD and neither by as much as 10GHz and all that has to be fairly accurate.

Below are some facts and qoutes from Intel.

Tejas will be equipped with so-called Depleted Sustrate Transistors, that leak ten thousand times less power than the current technology does, and will boast the first implementation of SOI. Those features, together with some others, will bring the ten gigahertz limit within range before the end of 2005. The early rumours tell us that Tejas will have a 1.2GHz FSB and will be partially compatible with IA-64 instructions. Ten gigahertz won't be the end though; Intel expects to hit twenty gigahertz a few years later. Double and triple gate transistors built at 0.045 and 0.032 micron still have a lot of potential and when those are used to their maximum, nano-technology will give us another performance boost.

Prescott will debut at least at 3.20GHz and will be made available with a 1MB L2 cache.

In order to make up for a lack of clock speed improvements, Intel will be introducing the 800MHz FSB (200MHz quad-pumped) on the 0.13-micron Northwood Pentium 4 processors before Prescott's release. The release will happen in Q2 2003 and instead of offering higher speed CPUs, Intel will go back and offer 800MHz FSB versions of CPUs as slow as 2.4GHz. These new 800MHz CPUs will also have Hyper-Threading support, which should make them very attractive purchases. Prescott will obviously support the 800MHz FSB as well.

HyperThreading   Hyperthreading is a much talked about feature, but all this technique does is use the optimal amount of power available by acting as if two threads are running at the same time. Of course, this won't give you the same speed as a dual-CPU configuration, but a 20 percent inprovement in multi-tasking environments will be possible. Those of you who have been following the reports lately will have noticed that HTT isn't new: the Xeon series has it and soon the Northwood will support it too. Prescott, however, will probably contain a improved version of HTT. It's sure that some minor glitches will be removed and it's said that the CPU might even have four threads ready for usage at any time, thus using its resources even better than the two-threaded version does. It's also possible that only the server-version of the Prescott, codenamed Nocona, will support this feature.    LaGrande  The name LaGrande was first heard at the Intel Developer Forum. It will be a part of the CPU that's especially security-minded. While the exact purpose of this function remains vague, it appears to be a hardware solution for encryption and/or hashing. There's nothing new about that, there are plenty PCI-cards that help to speed up the RSA algorithm, but it will be the first time such a thing will be implemented on such a wide scale. LaGrande will give us an advantage wherever we find encryption, and that's not just for secure data transfer or storage. Digital autographs for instance, could draw benefit from LaGrande. Also, when tracking changes in a system, a lot of principles from cryptology are used. The system that Microsoft invented, called Palladium, will probably use this function too.    

LaGrande is a good idea, certainly when viewed from a PR-viewpoint. The more money is spent online and the more important security becomes while accessing data from the Internet, the bigger the demand for hacker-proof security systems will be. The Prescott can be introduced as a device that will make online shopping safer, improve privacy and make computers more reliable. It's not that such things are impossible without Prescott, but thanks to the RC5-64 project we know that the Pentium 4, when compared to the Pentium III and Athlon, isn't that good at working with RSA. It might be better at better algorithmes, but the fact remains that when security grows, the CPU's resources must too. LaGrande should help there, so maybe our Dutch Power Cows will profit from it too.

 SSE3  The Pentium has MMX, the Pentium III has SSE, the Pentium IV could welcome SSE2 and Prescott will get SSE3. Although a lot of people doubt the use of these improvements, in practice, they do have their advantages. Not all software supports it, but those that do will get a nice performance boost. Drivers can also use the extra instructions, something nVidia thankfully implements to give their Detonators some extra performance from time to time. The exact benefits of SSE3 are not clear yet, although a part of it has been designed to support a new type of speach recognition that Intel is developing.

Those who want a Prescott processor in their system can choose between

several different chipsets. Intel itself offers the Springdale, the followup

to the Granite Bay. Granite Bay, officially known as E7205, is a chipset

that still needs to be brought out, and that supports dual channel DDR266

and AGP8x, while the southbridge will be equipped with Serial ATA 150.

Springdale will add three things to that list; a 667MHz FSB, support for

DDR333 memory, or DDR-II if the market is ready for it. It will also

feature a special link to the northbridge that will provide gigabit ethernet

and will relieve the southbridge of that burden. The southbridge ICH5

will have opportunities for eight USB 2.0 ports, eight PCI masters and

Wi-Fi. VIA in the meantime works on a pair of Prescott chipsets: P4X600

with dual channel DDR333 and a version with DDR-II P4X800.

The FSB of the Prescott will be running at 166MHz and will be quadpumped like any other Pentium 4, which produces a datarate of 667MHz. Anyone who knows that the bus is 64 bits wide, can calculate that approximately 5GB/s can be pumped to the processor. Looking at the bandwith, this is a perfect fit with the two DDR333 channels or PC1200 RDRAM. Although it's actually only a 25% increase of what the 533MHz Northwood bus can deliver, it's important that the multiplier can be reduced, because this will always have a positive effect on the latency. The increase in distance, measured in clockcycles, between memory and processor can be partially compensated by the implementation of cache. Willamette had 256KB, Northwood doubled that and the Prescott will probably get a full megabyte: more then was available to any desktop computer so far. In comparison: ClawHammer will initially receive 256KB cache and a memorybus of 2.67GB/s.

The answer to HyperTransport  Of course also server-editions of the Prescott will become available, in the form of Nocona. Since the Itanium-serie has been using the Pentium 4 bus since the McKinley core, the chipsets that where developed for the Itanium 2 (and later) can also be used by processors like Prescott and Nocona. The most interesting candidate for such an exchange is a version of E8870. By using a system with Scalability Ports and I/O hubs, with this new generation chipset a network of chips can almost be built in the same easy and flexible way as with the HyperTransport based AMD-8000. The major difference between the two is that AMD has placed HyperTransport and the memory controller on the processor itself. This ensures a reduced latency and probably also cheaper mainboards, but it will probably be a less flexible solution when you're thinking about an upgrade. In addition Intel can still use simple north- and southbridge mainboards, whereas a Hammer mainboard cannot ignore HyperTransport

YamhillOfficially it's still being denied, but it has been confirmed by so many sources that there's almost no possibillity for doubt; Intel has developed a form of x86-64 technology. A two percent increase in die-space would be sufficient to expand the core with 64 bit possibillities, just like AMD did (although these probably aren't mutually compatible). It's unlikely that this techique will be enabled in the first generation of Prescotts. First because it would not be good for IA-64 and second because it had to be announced already if it were, this in order to give developers the chance to adapt their software. Should the situation occur that 4GB of memory isn't enough for desktops, before the Itanium for home users is a reality, then Intel is prepared to extend the 32 bit series.

I know you already knew mos of that proly but others may not. The Bandwidth going through the CPU I think is less then AMD's.

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Most of that is old news that been around for quite some time, including the fact of 1mb cache (Hammer will have the same), 800mhz FSB and so on. Though I didn't know they'd be using SOI. AMD's Barton was supposed to use this, but they shrugged it in favor of the tbred b cores. Hammers will have the SOI tech though.

SSE3 is BS. It would have to be utilized in programs to work. SSE2 isn't used much at all, but mainly in the work place. Since it's a Intel tech, AMD has supposedly found a way to work 'their version' of SSE2 into the Hammer chips. But it is still useless. Same goes for AMD possibly using Hyperthreading due to a loop in patents by Intel.

10ghz is still a bit much. No previous P4 has gotten any further than 1ghz on its core.

That HyperTransport (AMD developed for hammer) answer is quite interesting. It seems to differ no more than a standard chipset, and thus not increasing memory bandwidth or effiecency as much as the AMD cpu. Also, last time I check, HyperTransport was on the mb, not the cpu. The memory controller is in fact on the cpu, which means you can't utilize faster ram tech as it comes out without buying a new cpu... but on the otherhand, current ram tech works faster because of it's speed an efficency. Odd trade-off eh?

Dual channel DDR and Serial ATA are allready in use on basicly all Nforce2 boards. Intel is really behind in current tech as far as motherboards go and it shows.

Read about Yamhill a while back. Too bad Intel didn't go that route earlier instead of Itanium or they might have beatten AMD :P

Also, have we all forgotten the PIII serial number incident that happen way back when? It leaves a trace of that cpu everywhere and can be linked back to your system. Whos to say they still aren't using it with the P4? AMD, because of anticipated public reaction (bad of course), decided against using such tech.

OK, think I'm done :)

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Most of that is old news that been around for quite some time, including the fact of 1mb cache (Hammer will have the same), 800mhz FSB and so on. Though I didn't know they'd be using SOI. AMD's Barton was supposed to use this, but they shrugged it in favor of the tbred b cores. Hammers will have the SOI tech though.

SSE3 is BS. It would have to be utilized in programs to work. SSE2 isn't used much at all, but mainly in the work place. Since it's a Intel tech, AMD has supposedly found a way to work 'their version' of SSE2 into the Hammer chips. But it is still useless. Same goes for AMD possibly using Hyperthreading due to a loop in patents by Intel.

10ghz is still a bit much. No previous P4 has gotten any further than 1ghz on its core.

That HyperTransport (AMD developed for hammer) answer is quite interesting. It seems to differ no more than a standard chipset, and thus not increasing memory bandwidth or effiecency as much as the AMD cpu. Also, last time I check, HyperTransport was on the mb, not the cpu. The memory controller is in fact on the cpu, which means you can't utilize faster ram tech as it comes out without buying a new cpu... but on the otherhand, current ram tech works faster because of it's speed an efficency. Odd trade-off eh?

Dual channel DDR and Serial ATA are allready in use on basicly all Nforce2 boards. Intel is really behind in current tech as far as motherboards go and it shows.

Read about Yamhill a while back. Too bad Intel didn't go that route earlier instead of Itanium or they might have beatten AMD :P

Also, have we all forgotten the PIII serial number incident that happen way back when? It leaves a trace of that cpu everywhere and can be linked back to your system. Whos to say they still aren't using it with the P4? AMD, because of anticipated public reaction (bad of course), decided against using such tech.

OK, think I'm done :)

Yeah some/most of that is old but I figured others may not know.

10ghz is still a bit much. No previous P4 has gotten any further than 1ghz on its core.

You mean Pentium?

IMO SSE3/2 Is all crap too just bunch of yeah we got it..but it is useless features to add.

Dual channel DDR and Serial ATA are allready in use on basicly all Nforce2 boards. Intel is really behind in current tech as far as motherboards go and it shows.
Makes me sad but the new board Snake Posted about

one real interesting article i read last night was the new springdale chipset available later this year and also a new mobo code named red city with full over clocking tools for the p4

Sounds really good :D

As for the serial number stuff who is to say they are and who is to say they aren't?

IMO, AMD will beat Intel this year. IIRC AMD is to hit the quiv of 3.5GHz and Intle only plans to hit 3.4GHz. And the quad Opteron setup I have seen is just KILLER!

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