connie lingus Posted July 3, 2003 Share Posted July 3, 2003 Greetings! It's official! The European Community has deployed it's own force under the EU flag in Bosnia. This development has very quietly shaken up the world order, with what promises to be a military might, that could easily surpass the combined forces of the old Soviet Union. The EU nations have a huge combined military strength already, but by just spending about 5% of it's GNP on defense, it could overtake the US in about 5 -7 years. Add in the new nations applying for membership from the old east bloc, and even Russia herself, it would be the biggest juggernaut the world has ever seen! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piccolo Posted July 3, 2003 Share Posted July 3, 2003 Sounds like this thing could turn into a royal FUBAR to me. I think the most obvious question is, how are they going to coordinate so many forces? So many different cultures, languages, methods of operation,etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussie_Terry Posted July 3, 2003 Share Posted July 3, 2003 Sounds like this thing could turn into a royal FUBAR to me. I think the most obvious question is, how are they going to coordinate so many forces? So many different cultures, languages, methods of operation,etc. hahaha its like the police force in teh movie "The Third Man" one russian, one american, one french and one englishman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueRose_76 Posted July 3, 2003 Share Posted July 3, 2003 Hehe, followed the recent complications in the EU, with the new president/director italian Berlusconi? The union is to much divided by national interrests. The EU has a lot of struggle to become the next superpower. In my opinion, i wont put my money on that. I would place my bets on china, which is already the biggest fogeign investor of the states and will gain lots of power by opening its internal market. regards BR_76 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcinko Posted July 4, 2003 Share Posted July 4, 2003 I aggree with Pic, coordination, communication, would all be very difficult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
connie lingus Posted July 4, 2003 Author Share Posted July 4, 2003 Greetings! The coordination of these forces already exists under NATO which has been joined by East Bloc nations like the Czechs. (Who has applied for EU membership) The US has been less and less interested in NATO, look for that void to be filled! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyovan4 Posted July 5, 2003 Share Posted July 5, 2003 the more nations you have in an organization, the harder it is to get everyone to agree on how/when or even if, to do certain things.. even in war. for supporting evidence, read "Waging Modern War" by General Wesley Clark, it's about the war against Serbia in regards to protecting the Albanian majority of Kosovo Province in Serbia. I think it would be easier to have 3-4 strong, close allies working together (US, UK, Australia, Poland in Iraq) than having a huge conglomerate of different countries working together (nearly any UN operation) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stalker_Zero Posted July 5, 2003 Share Posted July 5, 2003 (edited) Stop assuming that they won't and start exploring the possibilities of if or when they are able to do so (learn how to coordinate/cooperate). Those in combat who underestimate the abilities of others are the ones who get incredibly surprised..........sometimes unto death! Remember my comment on evaluating the performance of an f22-raptor vs a typhoon eurofighter? Well u eggheads out there better get a cracking on that report!! If something unfortunate.........and I mean UNFORTUNATE happens with foreign policy years from now....*sigh*......the U.S. (yes my country) better prepare to have its butt handed to them (us) if we ever had to go up against a EU force. Iraq, Somalia, Afghanistan.........come on lets face it. Their militaries were quite quite inferior when compared to 1st world counties militaries. And yet allied forces in the latest wars still took their losses. If the U.S. ever had to go up against France AND Germany (wow ironic) and the rest of the EU countries in a unified force.......WE WOULD BE IN SERIOUS TROUBLE. It would make wwII look like a carnival. WWIII is coming.......just a matter of time......tick tock.........tick tock. Edited July 5, 2003 by Stalker_Zero Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stalker_Zero Posted July 5, 2003 Share Posted July 5, 2003 And for God's sake Britain......please don't the union! What did you fight WWII for just to give up the British Pound? You won against your enemies by spilling your blood just to surrender to them by the selling of your dignity? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budgie Posted July 6, 2003 Share Posted July 6, 2003 The EU nations have a huge combined military strength already, but by just spending about 5% of it's GNP on defense, it could overtake the US in about 5 -7 years.... ... it would be the biggest juggernaut the world has ever seen! Dunno where your figures come from. According to TIME, the US spends - in real dollars - more on its military than all other countries together (including China). Unless the EU army can have a single language, military culture, and standardized equipment and procedures, it will remain nothing but an amalgum of second rate peacekeeping forces contirbuted by nations that keep their best people and materiel for other purposes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stalker_Zero Posted July 6, 2003 Share Posted July 6, 2003 Unless.....unless......you are right. What you are saying is right. But you are saying it in a way that is assuming that those obstacles cannot be overcome. Don't assume man. Don't assume that bullet heading toward your forehead is going to drop to the ground in front of you. Fine. You go right on ahead identifying the things that need to be overcome before an EU force can become something dangerous. And in the future try then to lookout for those things actually being overcome......cross them off a list or something. Then when you see what is happening.....remember this forum thread! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
connie lingus Posted July 6, 2003 Author Share Posted July 6, 2003 According to TIME, the US spends - in real dollars - more on its military than all other countries together (including China). Unless the EU army can have a single language, military culture, and standardized equipment and procedures, it will remain nothing but an amalgum of second rate peacekeeping forces contirbuted by nations that keep their best people and materiel for other purposes. Greetings! Thanks for contributing to the discussion! As for the US spending, you must remember that the military was severely gutted during the 8 years of the Clinton Administration. The US is now at war and trying to catch up on restoring the military capabilities it had in the past. Even with that fact, the quote from TIME magazine(who was largely anti-war) seems preposterous, and to use US Dollars as a basis of comparison is skewed. The GNP is the only fair way to compare spending, with the understanding that currencies fluctuate in value. As for single language and culture---we in the US don't even have that! Standardized equipment and procedures have been refined through NATO, although the new EU Military Headquarters outside Brussels is looking to supplant NATO with a new structure. The common currency of the Euro and the new European Constitution gives Brussels control over all forces and policy, while it's members surrender their sovereign status. The Sunday Times column from William Rees-Mogg asks the rhetorical question---"Does he(Tony Blair)have the realism to recognise that the proposed European constitution is intended to cut Britain away from the United States?". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RooK Posted July 7, 2003 Share Posted July 7, 2003 Don't assume man. Don't assume that bullet heading toward your forehead is going to drop to the ground in front of you. Actually, it's the other way around. Were assuming that the bullet is gonna hit the EU in the forehead while you are assuming that it is going to drop to the ground. The odds are stacked against them. Look at how terrible the UN is at joint efforts compared to coalition assaults with only a few parties involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stalker_Zero Posted July 7, 2003 Share Posted July 7, 2003 (edited) Time will tell. But I am fearful of a future war between the U.S. and some other countries against a mighty E.U. military. People think that the time of large scale conventional world wars are over and we are more into decentralized mini wars. While decentralized mini wars are new and is a reality....a large scale world war is still possible. And for the ones who are carefully watching world events and trends you can see that a big conflict is more than simply a possibility. Edited July 7, 2003 by Stalker_Zero Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyro_Monty Posted July 7, 2003 Share Posted July 7, 2003 But I am fearful of a future war between the U.S. and some other countries against a mighty E.U. military. Heh, while I'm flattered you think so highly of Europe and see it as a possible threat to the almight US, let's not get paranoid here, yeah? No need to go stock up your fallout shelter, we're all friends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stalker_Zero Posted July 7, 2003 Share Posted July 7, 2003 But what about my bunker?? I am digging it now. Its gonna be cool. It goes 500 feet straight down and then with concrete and other materials it opens out into a nice structure complete with toilet and cable t.v. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
connie lingus Posted July 8, 2003 Author Share Posted July 8, 2003 Greetings! The threat is not just a developing military, but economically as banks are preferring the Euro to the Dollar. This can have profound results in upsetting the world economy. As for bomb shelters, one would be better off studying German, French and Italian and Russian! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stalker_Zero Posted July 8, 2003 Share Posted July 8, 2003 No one here will go for that. Thats why when the bombs start falling I will be in my bunker watching endless reruns of gilligan's island I've saved on tape and other media. Ahhhhh Gilligan's Island. I have good memories watchin those reruns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
connie lingus Posted July 8, 2003 Author Share Posted July 8, 2003 Greetings! Regarding the effectiveness of the Eurofighter and other planes like the Mirage, the Germans under the UN(not the EU) went into combat for the first time since WWII in Bosnia in 1993.There they tested themselves against Soviet made AA weapons and showed how good these planes really are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
connie lingus Posted July 13, 2003 Author Share Posted July 13, 2003 (edited) Greetings! Let me say first of all that the derision and disbelief that this topic brings is not unexpected. In fact the European Union is counting on this as they have been for the 20 odd years since the idea of "a United States of Europe" was suggested by King Juan Carlos II of Spain. Other leaders in Europe such as Helmut Kohl and Francios Mitterrand have worked for many years and the result is a single economic currency, a common passport for all citizens, a parliament , and and now just the start of a Euro Defence Zone. The Euro currency in of itself has changed the markets as many banks are buying Euros in favor of the Dollar. The US media has paid little attention to this subject. But Sec. Colin Powell has not, he was quoted saying that he understands the new facilities in Teruven are a "military headquarters", despite the fact that EU leaders carefully avoided that phrase. General Powell wasn't smiling. He understands the threat of a Europe unchecked, has always led to war and conquest. The US presence in Europe has kept the peace in the west, but France and Germany ironically, are determined to supplant NATO and the US as a security force. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1032336.stm -------------------- SpecialDetachment(SD) Edited July 14, 2003 by connie lingus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stalker_Zero Posted July 15, 2003 Share Posted July 15, 2003 OMG. I hope the apache can take on european tanks. Excuse me more like the new commanches will be the one takin on those tanks. I wonder what they have to counter anti tank attack choppers?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
connie lingus Posted July 15, 2003 Author Share Posted July 15, 2003 QUOTE (Stalker_Zero @ Jul 15 2003, 00:41 ) I wonder what they have to counter anti tank attack choppers?? Greetings! Right now the only contributors to this joint effort are Britain(for now), France and Germany. Germany has Soviet hardware from former East Germany as well. But Russia is on that side of the urals too and may join as well as other former Eastern Bloc allies. How about a fleet of Hinds? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
connie lingus Posted July 18, 2003 Author Share Posted July 18, 2003 Also what about the Eurofighter equipped for close-air-support? Check this linkage: http://www.eurofighter.com/Default.asp?Flash=True Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stalker_Zero Posted July 18, 2003 Share Posted July 18, 2003 Yeah man. I think the only thing the f-22 raptor has over the typhoon is its stealth capability. All other characteristics of both airplanes seems to be similar. And forget about that thing about dogfighting being a thing of the past. Man o man would I love to witness a duel to the death between those two machines.........and their pilots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
connie lingus Posted July 18, 2003 Author Share Posted July 18, 2003 Greetings! The Eurofighter uses carbon composite fiber materials to absorb radar radiation. That, plus it's low profile cross-section make it a very stealthy aircraft! BTW--did you check out the flying and strategy games on that site? Fun way to propagandize! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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