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We all saw that sart, and most of us conceded that point already. We know it was what Ubi did or didnt do with the engine. 2 solutions here for that.

Either use an engine they are familiar with, and get the best they can out of it, or 2), take more time with the new one they want to use, and work it over to suit. But dont sell something that as many people are having trouble with, and have them not spend any more money on the series because the game they bought put a bad taste in their mouth.

Either way, to alot of people, they failed. The U2 engine is what people associate RvS with because it was so hyped up, and we didnt have problems with the other R6 and GR games to the same extent we do RvS.

People bought RvS based on previous RSE experience, and based on the success of the U2 engine in other games.

As for good engines, whats wrong with the GR engine? They could probably really refine it, and we know it works, and how it works, and for the most part, all are happy with it.

And yes, sart, we pretty much know what are complaints are with. After all we are making them. ANd yes, they are associated with the U2 engine, no matter the cause. So I think we can all lighten up a bit.

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Either way, to alot of people, they failed.

Don't you think we're generalizing a bit? Sure I've heard a more number of comaplints then compliments. But most complaints are coming from the same places. I ehar more praise from more different people than I do complaints.

I don't think it's fair for anyone of us to say that more people like it or more people don't like it.

@Phantom, I'm a little confused here, help me out. You're telling Sart that you understand/see what he's saying. But at the sime time you have nearly three paragrpahs about the engine being the problem. Doesn't that totally contradict what you told Sart? I'm not trying to be a stick in the rear here, but it just doesn't make any sense to me.

He says its a problem with the coding, and not the engine; then you say yes Sart I understand, but it's the engine? :blink::stupid:

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Nevermind. Carry on fellas. This is obviously too deep for me. What I dont get I guess, is why others can see what Im saying, and you guys cant. I just cant explain it better than that without repeating myself and upsetting someone.

That said, Ill just listen to the experts in this thread from now on.

Edited by phantom110565
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look guys most of you probaly know im a fan of the Unreal engine, ive played a fair few demos and full games based on variants of this engine , one thing i did realise is no 2 game developers are the same, no 2 games feel the same and they shouldnt.

the unreal warfare engine was designed to be a back bone , it has won awards and is used in more games than any other engine to date, but and this is a big but it isnt for everyone and obviously it isnt for every game developer yes the engine has karma yes it has meshes and a lot of other bells and whistles it can also be used for interior or exterior game types, but as seen with other titles somthing can get lost in the mix this is their first attempt at using this engine, for what ever reason be it cost or development time and the fact that the engines they have used to date wouldnt cut it in a new release yes they might have lost the feel that a lot of you r6 dieharders wanted i dont know ive never spent any time playing the other r6 games GR has been my baby for over 2 years it was in fact my first game of this genre and even tho i love the game it has alway frustrated me on how dificult it is to mod for even getting new maps that run smooth has been a long time coming.

UT2003 on the other hand is a year old and yes it had more than its fair share of bugs and negative forum posts but the mods count in the thousands the game stays fresh let alone the complete conversion mods that give rainbow six style game play are unbelievable and they run fine sp or mp and these are third party mods done by the comunity with the support of the game devs.

in this case i have no idea what should be done, can it be fixed probaly should it ? definitly, should gr2 or any other titles they release in this family use this engine i dunno only time and sales will tell.

PS WarHawk i understand what you mean about fps but sorry i dont agree I and many others have gone thru several upgrades while playing gr to get the msot out fo the game funny that while playing the original unreal engine my pc which was less powerfull than yours ran those games fine it was in fact GR that forced me to upgrade not unreal and after doing so i expect my games to run a certain way and im sorry but 30fps or lower is BS to me and destroys my enjoyment of a game and if it runs extremely well in sp why should my pc get a hernia every time i host even after hours of tweaking, i just dont think thats relevant sorry

hopefully this makes sense to some of ya have a good day guys and gals

Edited by snakebite1967
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@snakebite

My point was that merely for some, no not everyone, it is in fact possible to play at frame rates slower thank 30fps. I did it all the time when playing games with you and Phantom. My point was to merely say that just because you have low frame rates don't think that you have the market cornered on a bad time. If you can deal with the low frame rates like I can great, if not upgrade your system or do something different. I will agree however that it seems like anytime UBI comes into contact with a game, I am now extremely worried since Harpoon 4 is now going to be an internal UBI production, that things seem to go to crap.

Stout Hearts

Warhawk

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Greetings!

While I don't pretend to have the technical competence to diagnose the numerous problems with UBI/RSE's use of the Unreal Engine, it doesn't take a genius to see the difference in performance between GR and RvS. And that since RvS is the later release, that these problems should have been avoided by using a system not only comparable to GR but one would think superior to it.

While state of the art pc equipment changes every month, this game minimum reqs was supposed to run on much less powerful Pentium III processors and even has the nerve to mention 56k connection.

It's been known among experienced players that whoever has the lowest ping on broadband almost always wins on RVS whereas GR has many good 56k players. Even the location of the servers gives an unfair advantage to those players who can achieve 40-60 pings, something that cannot be achieved in most cities or countries.

I do know that there are many players of RVS that are satisfied because they have no previous exposure to R6 or GR! This is all they know so they are impressed!

But to those very few who are in the GR community that say they run this game without any jumpy play, I'd like to know how? :ph34r:

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hey zjj,

Here are some pros and cons IMO. I just threw this together so comments/additions are welcome.

In House Engine:

Pros-

Tailored to the specific needs of the game|players in question.(I believe this is a huge pro in terms of r6/gr realism needs)

The programmers|company will have intimate knownledge of the engine. This allows for quicker bug fixes and better expansion packs.

Cheaper since you don't have to buy the rights to an engine, but you have to pay programmers so in the long run it could turn out to be more expensive.

Can build in mod support. You make your own file types, and decide what tools you want to use(or make your own)

Cons-

Takes a long time to develop and you have to do a lot of tests to iron out the kinks.

Takes a lot of planning beforehand

Takes a lot of math|programming knowledge (but if you are going to make a game you have that already, i hope)

Using a prefab engine

Pros-

Usually speeds up the process of game creation (but your programmers have to get accustomed to the in and outs of the code)

There are usually games that already use the engine, so you have an idea of how the game will look.

Development tools are already created

A lot of the problems with the engine have already been addressed

Cons-

The process of making the prefab engine do what you want can be hard. As in making the UNreal engine more realistic. The stuff you want may or may not be already built into the engine.

Costs can be high. There could be an up front cost and/or a royality fee. This usually doesn't make the price of the game high($50 seems to be a industry standard for now), but it does effect your budget in other areas like product support and expansion pack dev.

Trying to tailor the prefab engine to suit your needs can cause a buggy product b/c your programmers don't fully understand the coding of the engine.

Again b/c the programmers don't have an intimate knowledge of the code bugs will be hard to solve and the patchs and fixes could be slow to be released.

Well i didn't mean to hit the submit button(try to tab over and then hit the enter key) so i'll leave it at that and add more later. :blink: I guess I should work since I'm at work.

Edited by ScarfaceSAS
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@Snakebite

I totally agree that on higher end systems there shouldn't be any problems getting it to run. Why Phantom had the problems he did with his ATI card are beyond me. It just scares the crap out of me what the "powers that be" at UBI is going to force the Dev's to do.

Stout Hearts

Warhawk

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:blink: I run an ATI 9500Pro and it runs great. I may not peak above 70FPS, but the gameplay is still smooth. Evenw hen it drops into the teens it's not lagging. It's still very smooth and sweet. :D
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Now imagine if GR 2 was made with the Unreal engine and gave us hardcore GR fans the same preformance that it does for RvS or even worse. How would you feel about spending that $50 for something that will just sit on the shelf and can't take back?

:) Bring it on. Your saying that if Ghost Recon 2 is developed on the Unreal engine, it will be a waste of money and only will make itself useful as a coaster for a cold one. There are far more people happier with Raven Shield than there are mad, you just dont see a topic that is 100 pages long with "Tank you for providing us with a great game." You see, "OMG I am not willing to take the time to try and figure out what is right and what is wrong, so Im never buying another UBI game." Sure, there are those that are like tyovan that have had problems since release, but hes a soldier and hes sticking through it.

I did say preformance wise. From what I hear from those who have played Unreal based games is that it is not a good engine to use for the size and type of maps (outdoor) that GR has. Sounds like right there that there is a preformance hit.

Yes AA uses the Unreal engine, but from what I see the maps aren't that big either and is not even suited for dial-up either, shades of RvS there and AA came out before RvS did. Maybe that was something that should have told people about RvS before it was released. I don't know what size the AA maps are, but are they as big as ones in GR? I really don't know, I didn't reinstall the game and complete more than just the training, I don't like the Rambo weapon view bobbing around in my vision and I didn't like the iron sight view either.

actually they are about the same size. I prefer the iron sites and since i got this new rig (one on my sig) I'm been killing a lot of folks lately in AA and guess what I have hard time aiming in RVS due to so called moving reticle. I think the moving reticles are unrealistic. The ballistics in AA are more realistic compared to RVS. I do like the decals in RVS then Americas Army which kinda look chipped rocks and not powdery. I think the biggest maps they have is mountain ambush and the tower. Do you even know the next tribe game comming next year and another online multiplayer game is going to use the unreal engine. If the Unreal engine really suck why do some well known companies are planning to use them in their new games. Check out any pc games and they will mention games base on the unreal engine with dirt being kick off while reading an all terrain vehicle.

I do admit I upgrade my pc prior to GR being shipped and bought a new PC a year 3 months after RVS was release.

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You people are all like: "you don't see your weapon when you are moving. You do in FPWV's and it's so unrealistic. GR is well realistic because you don't see the weapon"

True but, Ahem, excuse me. What's more realistic? Aiming with a crosshair or aiming with your gun (iron sights)? When aiming with your gun yo DO see your gun even when aiming while moving. But you don't in GR. So what's more realistic?

Seeing your gun obviously.

I wish people would stop dissin the Unreal 2 engine. There'e cheats and bugs for every game. Vietcong engine is an extremely good engine, but buggy as hell. Alot of cheaters too. But the new patch(es) fix that. The latest, Vietcong v1.27 beta, has like 29 megabytes of bug fixes/anti-cheat stuff. I know this because I am one of the Beta testers for the Vietcong dev's.

My point is, bug fixes etc can be released in patches for ANY game.

Just down to the dev's to release the bug fixes.

GR is sitting on my shelf now gaining dust. You know why? Because it don't have a FPWV. With the Unreal engine, graphics are alot better, environments are bigger. What's the problem with that?

If you are all unhappy about RSE using the Unreal 2 engine for GR2, then why don't RSE use the Half-Life 2 engine. The HL2 engine is like twice as good as the U2 engine.

No flaming please.

Edited by -[NCM]- .:Nightmare:.
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If someone can model a set of sights that really simulate the way a person who is firing is looking thru the sights, I prolly wouldn't mind them, but as all FPWV and iron sights work now, I don't see it. Never when I was moving through the courses or brush at Parris Island, did I ever see my weapon while moving. I had other things to pay attention to while moving like looking for trip wires or trees in the way. IMO a FPWV is nothing but eye candy I can really do without in game. I'd rather shoot you while you stare at your weapon model than you shoot me.

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Amen WK. Heck with the FPVW. Id rather be playing and alive, than looking at a rendered gun. Actually, the expanding reticule gives a good rendition of the time it takes to get a sight picture, I think.

Edited by phantom110565
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I do too, with the recoil (depending on the weapon), it does take a few seconds to get a good sight picture back. You still have to get steady again after taking a breathe or 2 to keep from passing out.

Sar, don't even go there with round 2.

Even when marching around with my rifle at the barracks, the only time I saw it was when I was moving it from one shoulder to another when ordered to. You don't even see it at port arms. DI's would be all over you like white on rice if you were to try and look at it, not to mention having a go in the Rose Garden. I never did like the sand burrs or sand fleas. The only time you really looked at your rifle when marching/in formation was inspection arms to make sure that it was empty before giving it to a reviewer. Cleaning weapons, you got to see plenty of it.

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If someone can model a set of sights that really simulate the way a person who is firing is looking thru the sights, I prolly wouldn't mind them, but as all FPWV and iron sights work now, I don't see it. Never when I was moving through the courses or brush at Parris Island, did I ever see my weapon while moving. I had other things to pay attention to while moving like looking for trip wires or trees in the way. IMO a FPWV is nothing but eye candy I can really do without in game. I'd rather shoot you while you stare at your weapon model than you shoot me.

So you're saying you don't see your weapon when aiming (by looking through iron sights)? Yeah right.

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