Operation "pimple" is ready for testing.

[daro48]

Hello,

Referring to the topic:

Are missions getting boring or repetitive?

I decided to try a stealth mission.

Map is founded on m08_landscape_clean.

Your job is primarily to avoid contact with the enemy.

The mission will fail, if you will be spotted, or perform a campaign-style "Rambooboo".

I do not recommend running, use grenades and weapons without silencers. You have to sneak alot or even crawl.

Killing the enemy is possible or even sometimes necessary, but you must be sure that nobody else sees your murders.

Some patrols moving in pairs, you can eliminate them, but you must proceed with caution. In addition, you reach 6 points on the map.

Inside the objectives, you can shoot, that is, they can see you and you can shoot, but when they start to rip a series the outside guards can be alerted.

I have not tested the map at all on a dedicated server, so I have no idea whether it will work properly on it.

guidelines to start:

match_info level = "coop_daro48_walk_v1_0"

mediafire link:

coop_daro48_walk_v1_0

gamefront link

Cheers,

Daro

[rahnman]

Hey Daro,

I tried this one out tonight and had a few comments.

The first thing I noticed was that a few of the objectives were not spelled correctly. Here is what they should say:

Sieze Headquarters

Sieze Cargo

Find Survivors at A

Find Survivors at B

If the mission fails it should read: Your team has been spotted.

The next thing I noticed is that you have restricted the weapons choices to only 12 for each category, which means that if someone is using a mod to play this mission they may not have access to the kit they want. I know Bogie used to do this and it was very frustrating for the players. I would recommend that you reference the same weapon set that John uses.

I like the idea with the mission but found that it was all but impossible for me to get very far without being spotted. I tried 10 or so times before I just gave up and finished the mission. So, in the end, I had no real incentive to be stealthy. Here's an idea which you may find interesting. How about having a limit to the amount of kills that a team can have before they become "noticed". The idea is that if too many AI are killed their commander will become aware of your presence. Once this happens you can trigger an alarm throughout the city and spawn a large number of AI in the vicinity of the team (maybe multiple smaller triggers would be better). The idea here is that all the sleeping soldiers have been awakened and called into action. Once a majority of the AI have been killed the triggers are repeated (up to a certain amount of AI), causing multiple waves of soldiers to have to be engaged from multiple directions. I'm thinking you would use the type of trigger that Bogie used in his "Harry Lee" mission.

I think that this would be a great incentive to get players play stealthily because there would be consequences for not doing so. It would also be very challenging for a group of players if they set off the alarm. So this mission could be fun in two ways. It's just an idea, but I think it might be fun.

BTW, it was very cool to see some helicoptors inside the hangar. I don't believe anyone has done this before and it was a great idea!

Cheers,

Rahn

[daro48]

Hi Rahn,

Thank you for ideas, I'll try do this, but there is small problem, when you will kill AI the game sets them as killed and I don't know how to bring them back. I'll check how Bogie done this but I think he just put on the map a big number of the enemies and set them as active when one team has been killed.

I can make kills counter but this take me loads of time, because the game see whole team as one, so if the team has 4 soldiers, you must kill all of them to check if kills is greater_than="value".

I think the alarm is not a problem, and if you could send me more details, I will be grateful

Many thanks for speling corection

Cheers,

Daro

[JohnTC02]

Hi Daro,

Once the AI have been killed there is no way to re-spawn them, you have to spawn a different group which you placed in the editor. I think Bogie just copied a group of AI from within the world.xml then renamed them, doing this saves having to place the AI again in the editor but the downside here is that they will spawn in the same location as the ones you copy.

As Daro mentioned it's difficult to check how many AI have been killed overall, we have the "SoldiersKilled" condition but that only checks how many AI have been killed in a particular group. It may be possible to do this using the "EvaluateVar" condition but again it would be difficult to setup.

Cheers,

John

[rahnman]

Hey Daro,

I can't really help you with the scripting of the mission. John is the expert. My role has always been to come up with ideas that John would say were impossible. Then he would find a way to do it! LOL! Please don't think that you have to do it the way I suggest, its just an idea. The point is that there should be a good reason to WANT to be stealthy. There should be some form of PUNISHMENT for not being that way.

Here is another scenario which may work better. Is it possible trigger the end of the mission based on the condition that the maximum number of kills is exceeded? If so then things become really easy. You leave the mission as it is and once the players kill more that the maximum amount of AI you sound the alarm, put up a message that says, "Your presence has been detected", and then another one that says "Mission Aborted" and then trigger the end of the mission. In that way the players must be stealthy or they cannot finish the mission. If this is possible then I think that would work best and be easiest. The point is that there must be a PENALTY for not being stealthy.

Don't forget about changing the weapons set. If you did this for a reason then that is fine, but you will be complaints about it! LOL!

Cheers,

Rahn

Edited February 4, 2012 by rahnman

[daro48]

Hey Rahn

I asked you about more details of scenario, not for code

I think, your ideas are gr8 but i need a time to program and check if some of them are possible and safe for server (lag- to much triggers),

right now i'm worndering, how to change the code for your first idea. I'll start coding today, coz i have few ideas for solution, but i need a time to check, if the game limitations don't kill my solutions

Thank you for mission ideas, it's greally great if someone can help with it

Don't forget about changing the weapons set. If you did this for a reason then that is fine, but you will be complaints about it! LOL!

I will change it for sure

Cheers,

Daro

Edited February 5, 2012 by daro48

[JohnTC02]

All you can use is this:

<element type="GameOver"/>

This will end the game and load the next map in the rotation, AFAIK there is no way to end the mission then re-load the same map in a coop mission.

I'm sure Daro already knows this but I thought it would be useful for testers for future reference.

[daro48]

Hi John

Thank you for code support I think we can use this code but as you mentioned noone will able to finish and even see the end of this map, so i think it can make some problems for players ...

I was working on the re-spawn dead AI and as you and manual sais, there is no way to bring them back alive

I think the multiple of code in world.xml can solve the problem, but as you said there will be many of soldiers spawning in one place and hudge lllaaaaagggg becouse of that.

I think in Bogie map it is working, because there is only one way to go and you are not able to run next few trigger at once even when on the server are more that 3 players. Here, players have open areas, so they can run more than one "spawning" trigger at once, and this can make the game freez.

I think to solve this using player_trigger and checking many condidtions, but more condidtions to check= bigger lag ....

Oh well... I'm still working on it

[rahnman]

Hi Daro,

With John and Bogie's earlier missions having a pipeline for the players to go down and having no alternative routes was the key to being able to spawn multiple enemies without having much lag. I'm not so sure it will be successful with this map since it is so "open". Maybe the best idea would be to do like John does in his current missions and have "extra" triggers for "hard" maps. Once the players have killed too many AI the map becomes "hard" and extra AI are spawned whenever the players reach a certain trigger point. You can then respawn another group once a certain percentage of the first group have been killed. This would probably work fine as long as the players stay together and don't hit multiple triggers at the same time.

The only thing that I don't like about that idea is that the map starts out being all about stealth and then will likely turn into a regular mission. I really like the idea of having the mission aborted if the objectives are not met. That way you MUST be stealthy. Seeing the end of the mission and making it to extraction is a reward for proper play. I have never seen a misison with those conditions before. It might be frustrating for some players, and some players may not want to play the mission because of it. However, there are apparently some people who would really enjoy it, so why not make this mission just for them. In addition, having to abort the mission adds an element of realism. In the real world, when things go to crap we get our guys out of there.

OH! How about this for an idea! Once the players have been spotted and the mission has been aborted, then all the objectives are aborted and an extraction objective is lit up! Then the players would have to fight their way to extraction. The punishment for not being stealthy would then be not being able to complete the main objectives. Maybe you could provide a road that the ghosts would have to travel down to get to extraction and they meet a convoy of reinforcements coming the other way or some such thing. I don't know if this is possible but it would be fun! That way the players can "finish" the mission and still have "failed" in their objectives. Well, it's an idea anyway.

Cheers,

Rahn

Edited February 5, 2012 by rahnman

[kaapo]

Hi Daro,

mission failed at HQ (our 1st objective we took) because we was not able to be stealth enough.

Second time we kept going. and right at the second objective (Tank B) all vehicles was hidden for Erika. The vehicles was there but she just could not see them. After she restarted and came into the game again all vehicles was there.

Best FPS was at the beginning: 25FPS

Then at the HQ it was 14-16 until we completed all except Tank A and cargo. It went high to 20 FPS.

After completing Cargo it went back to 25FPS.

This means it was hard to play at the HQ.

This is not our way to play but we understand that there exist Ghosts who may like it.

If possible, Rahns idea is great:

have "extra" triggers for "hard" maps

We was not able to enjoy everything because our PCs are to slow but was we have seen was interesting and looked good.

Beside of the lags and the failed mission we did not see mayor problems.....and no small ones as well (sorry for that)

Thanks, Klaus & Erika ( she was because she could not use her lovely sniper

[daro48]

Hi Klaus,

She couldn't see the tanks because you were at 1st trigger and she was at 3rd, I tried to hide the world (small static and dynamic objects) to rise fps, and I wasn't sure if this was good idea. The frame rate is low because i had to spawn all enemies at once at first trigger and rest of them on 2nd, that why the stealth missions are hard to do as coop. I knew about low fps but i thought this is ok, because you have to avoid contact not kill them.

Now, when Rahn post his comments, he gaves me an ideas which i'll try to program, but i'm not sure if i will not fail.

If you are still interesting of this map pls be patience or just give me a singn to drop this one and do another in old, rambo style

Thanks for feedback so far, you were really helpfull

Best Regards,

Daro.

[kaapo]

Hi, Daro, no, don't drop it ........She could not see ANY vehicles, no tanks, no bus, no jeep and no trucks!

Pease give Rahns idea a try, we are always interested and of course we will wait.

Later, Klaus

[daro48]

Hi Klaus

She could not see ANY vehicles, no tanks, no bus, no jeep and no trucks!

Later, Klaus

Because my cod says:

if player from team A (you or any one from ghost team) is in location 1 -> hide all graphics objects in location where is trigger 3 (there, where Erika was standing)

Function HideWorld can hide some graphics objects, not all of them, that why she seen only buildings, and she couldn't see trees, cars, tanks etc....

Now i removed it and split triggers fore smaller ones, and this was the easiest part....

Oh and one more thing, probably on dedicated server function HideWorld doesn't work well, i'm not sure.

Edited February 6, 2012 by daro48

[TAWGoose]

Hi Klaus

She could not see ANY vehicles, no tanks, no bus, no jeep and no trucks!

Later, Klaus

Because my cod says:

if player from team A (you or any one from ghost team) is in location 1 -> hide all graphics objects in location where is trigger 3 (there, where Erika was standing)

Function HideWorld can hide some graphics objects, not all of them, that why she seen only buildings, and she couldn't see trees, cars, tanks etc....

Now i removed it and split triggers fore smaller ones, and this was the easiest part....

Oh and one more thing, probably on dedicated server function HideWorld doesn't work well, i'm not sure.

Hey would you send me the password, either Pm or email sheekd@bellsouth.net thanks

[daro48]

Hi Goose,

The password sent

[Anthony]

Hi Daro

Same thing as TAWGoose, I couldn't remember the password. Can you pls PM me.

Thanks

[daro48]

Hi again

Sieze Headquarters : fixed

Sieze Cargo : fixed

Find Survivors at A :fixed

Find Survivors at B :fixed

If the mission fails it should read: Your team has been spotted. :changed

The next thing I noticed is that you have restricted the weapons choices: changed

How about having a limit to the amount of kills that a team can have before they become "noticed". :limit is 7

Once this happens you can trigger an alarm throughout the city and spawn a large number of AI in the vicinity of the team (maybe multiple smaller triggers would be better). emmm.. sound alarm: failed, all the rest changed

Now you have 7 kills limit after that the mission failed and is changing to more aggressive one. You have to escape, for do that you must destroy the wall and go on the bridge.

There are no backspawns until the end of the mission, all guys which will showing up behind you are from the map - spawned ealier. I gave them order to move to your position. At the end of mission I tried to do something like "defend yours positions" but this is small trigger.

So this mission contains 2 missions which are depending from your game style.

I did change environment and here will be hudge problems on dedicater Klaus's server. The map contains many dynamic objects and i think this can make your server a little leeppy (19-30 fps)

I reprogrammed all triggers and spent many hours to make the kills counter if this was warth of map, you will see by your own.

here is link to file:

coop_daro48_walk_v1_1

Cheers,

Daro

[rahnman]

Daro,

WOW!! You have done a great job with this one!! I really enjoyed trying to be stealthy ........ failing ....... and then having to fight my way out!! I really like your use of the narcoms as well.

Here are a few of the things that I noticed:

1) It may be a good idea to remove all the AI from the city once the players have blown the wall which leads to the bridge and to extraction. I doubt any players will head back into the city at that point and removing any remaining AI might help with any lag issues that other players may have.

2) I don't know what you meant by "raise a point of escape". Maybe you meant "find an escape point" or "find a means of escape" or "hurry to the escape point".

3) Once I got onto the bridge and triggered the "exit check 5(abc)" patrols I was able to see them spawn in front of me (they were behind the bus on the bridge). You may want to put a fence there so that I cannot see that happen.

4) Once I made it to extraction I was told to "take cover". I sat behind the sand bags and waited for more AI to be spawned but they never did. It wasn't until I made my way back down the bridge that "Defend A ..." and the following triggers actually happened. This is somewhat confusing since "taking cover" means to sit where you are, however, what the players would really need to do is move back down the bridge. I'm not really sure that these triggers are even necessary though. I think that once the players reach the extraction point that they have had enough. You should probably just trigger a blackhawk to come in and end the mission there.

5) I was still unable to complete the mission in "stealth" mode. Maybe I'm just not that good at it but it still seemed too difficult. I think that you should probably reduce the number of patrols or make the kill count a little higher before the players are "spotted". There just doesn't seem to be any way to get around all the AI.

6) Too bad you couldn't make the alarm sound. Bummer!

I really liked your placement of the snipers and AI on the way to the extraction on the bridge. VERY nice job! I played by myself on my own server and had no lag issues at all.

Thanks for mentioning me in the ending credits. That was very kind of you.

Cheers,

Rahn

[daro48]

Hi Rahn,

2) I don't know what you meant by "raise a point of escape". Maybe you meant "find an escape point" or "find a means of escape" or "hurry to the escape point".

I couldn't find words in english to express my feelings

3) Once I got onto the bridge and triggered the "exit check 5(abc)" patrols I was able to see them spawn in front of me (they were behind the bus on the bridge). You may want to put a fence there so that I cannot see that happen.

I forgot about it

4) Once I made it to extraction I was told to "take cover". I sat behind the sand bags and waited for more AI to be spawned but they never did. It wasn't until I made my way back down the bridge that "Defend A ..." and the following triggers actually happened.

they should, i set the code to spawn next wave when you will kill at leats 2 mans from eatch team, I see i need to change it

5) I was still unable to complete the mission in "stealth" mode. Maybe I'm just not that good at it but it still seemed too difficult. I think that you should probably reduce the number of patrols or make the kill count a little higher before the players are "spotted". There just doesn't seem to be any way to get around all the AI.

i reduced amount of AI to one per patrol oh well I don't know what can I do to make it easier

6) Too bad you couldn't make the alarm sound. Bummer!

I tried with all my forces and sleepless nights but the AI just don't using this props, so i gave up

Thanks for mentioning me in the ending credits. That was very kind of you.

i didn't changed load screen, and i thought it will nice to see all credits at the end

Thanks for testing

Cheers,

Daro

[rahnman]

Daro,

John was able to get the alarm working in the "Armagedon" mission. It was right at the beginning of the mission and was triggered with the destruction of the first ADAT. If you haven't done so already, try taking a look and see what he did.

Cheers,

Rahn

[Anthony]

Hi Daro

Thanks for giving us another new mission, this time something quite different. Haven't managed to go undetected yet even though the last time I only killed one AI and then got called an idiot for getting Rosen killed. You can't win everytime. Unfortunately I have been experiencing quite severe lag from early on even at times when there seemed to be very few AI around.

Even though I blew the mission each time it was still enjoyable to fight my way to extraction. I am loving the challenge of getting along the bridge to safety. As noted, on getting to the sandbags and killing a couple of AI that seemed to trigger a rush and I was taking a lot of fire from off the bridge on nearby buildings - that was fun. By the way I got the alarm to sound before I went over the bridge so if it hasn't been working I can report it is now.

All the best on getting it finished and I shall persevere with getting to Rosen undetected.

Anthony

Edited February 15, 2012 by Anthony

[daro48]

Hi Anthony

Thank you for feedback

Are you remember after which trigger were this happend?:

Haven't managed to go undetected yet even though the last time I only killed one AI and then got called an idiot for getting Rosen killed

Unfortunately I have been experiencing quite severe lag from early on even at times when there seemed to be very few AI around.

The lag will increase from start to end stealth part, because you can not kill AI and I need spawn them more.

Because of that, I removed few more of them and if you could give me more details about "called Mitchel an idiot for getting Rosen killed", where this was happend i will be gratefull

Rahn

John was able to get the alarm working in the "Armagedon" mission. It was right at the beginning of the mission and was triggered with the destruction of the first ADAT. If you haven't done so already, try taking a look and see what he did.

John's way is this same as mine, we both gave and order to use for AI .

I was thinking about run the alarm for 20 seconds only, and i started to write my own props based on alarm but one more time the game doesn't cooperate with me .

Cheers,

Daro

[rahnman]

Daro,

Well, if the alarm won't work then it is not the end of the world. It would just add a bit of realism.

In the ending credits, could you add my TAW tags to my name? It helps with getting people to join the clan. My in game name looks like this: TAW_Rahnman

Thanks, and I can't wait to see the next version!

Rahn

[Rico686]

Hi Daro,

I tried your new map tonight for the first round and I found a few things. I made some screens from the things I've found, but I don't know how to upload or send them to you.

- There's a lower building north-east of the HQ and the stairs close to the car wreck is not really attached to the ground, so if you take a closer look at it, it looks like it's loating. I couldn't get up that stairs, so I checked what was wrong. So, that particular part of the stairs seemed to be a little too high.

On the other side of that same stairs there is a gap in the ground and if you step into it you'll have the same problem because there's no connection to the stairs, if you know what I mean.

- There is also 1 building, 86m south from the C4 objective which is also not completely connected to the ground. If you lie down on your belly, you can look under the building. I made a screen of it and I hope you can tell me how to send it to you, so you can see what I mean and which building I mean.

- About the alarm: normally no one would intentionally set off the alarm, but I did and I noticed that whether you switch it ON or OFF it says the same "Press x to activate". Switching OFF should say: "Press X to de-activate".

Other than that the map is great and I enjoyed testing it. I also like the radio chatter in the chopper hangar. Nice touch

BTW, I tested the map with the Rahnman mod and I didn't have any lag or crashes. The next round will be with default weapons only. It took me 66 min to finish the map.

Cheers,

Rico

I don't know if it's supposed to be like that, but there's a gap at the beginning of the bridge.

The stairs I mentioned.

The gap at the base of the stairs I mentioned.

As you can see, the alarm is now activated (the light is on), but it still says: Press X to activate.

Edited February 18, 2012 by Rico686

[JohnTC02]

Hey Rico,

If you can resize your screenshots to around 1024pix wide (game screenshots can be large so resizing them will make them quicker to upload) you can use the "Attach Files" button when you are posting, this feature will allow you to attach images as well.

The other option is to open a photobucket account then upload your pictures there then copy the link and add it to your post.

Hope that helps,

John