Groin Pat down required to fly.

[Rocky]

Delicate subject, but I found this footage remarkable. Be prepared to give up at least 30 minutes of your time though, there are 3 videoas and a webpage with 5000+ comments lol.

This guy refuses a pat down that would include an airport officer touching his groin, and in doing so was refused to fly, and worse...

This quote is quote extraordinary...

"By buying a ticket you gave up your rights"

So in order to fly, you either have to agree to a backscatter examination, which is basically a nude photo of yourself, or a groin pat down, which the guy in the video is rightly against. The nude x-ray photo is itself highly controversial as the images are open to abuse, as seen in the media earlier this year, and there's also questionable health issue. So all the guy wants to do is do what 90% of the other passengers are doing, and that is pass through the metal detector only.

In the second video you can hear the guys father explain he is a retired cop, and asking for some professional courtesy.

I'm not quite sure why the guy decided to film the whole thing covertly, that kind of is suspicious explained, still, his treatment is very surprising and an indicator of what terrorism has done to the civilized world and civilised people.

I only wish I could be as cool as this guy in the face of what must have been quite an intimidating situation; he was one cool cucumber.

[Cpl Ledanek]

Opt Out pdf ..... pass to family and friend, specially those traveling with kids

just passing info folks.

if you have a wife/mother/auntie/sister who is breast-feeding, please consider just some of these articles found all over Goggle , then maybe this subject maybe taken more seriously

and those recovering from cancer through radiation therapy may take it more serious

and for the gents, testicular cancer

how it affects children:

children are susceptible to low levels of radiation because they possess many rapidly dividing cells. In rapidly dividing cells, the repair of mutations is less efficient than in resting cells. When radiation causes DNA mutations in a rapidly dividing cell, the cell cannot sufficiently repair the damaged DNA and continue to divide; therefore, the DNA remains in disrepair.

[Parabellum]

The terrorists have won. All that lacks now is a formal declaration that the United States is now a police state.

[Cpl Ledanek]

The terrorists have won. All that lacks now is a formal declaration that the United States is now a police state.

it's not?

damn! and I just bought a burka for my wife for Christmas

[wombat50]

Got this from a good friend:

FINALLY — a new and improved airport body scanner!

The Israelis are developing an airport security device that eliminates the privacy concerns

that come with full-body scanners at the airports. It’s a booth you can step into that will

not X-ray you, but will detonate any explosive device you may have on you.

They see this as a win-win for everyone, with none of the crap about racial profiling.

After you hear a muffled explosion, an announcement comes over the PA system:

"Attention standby passengers, we now have a seat available on flight #1818."

It would eliminate the cost of a long and expensive trial. Justice would be swift.

Case closed!

[Parabellum]

The terrorists have won. All that lacks now is a formal declaration that the United States is now a police state.

it's not?

damn! and I just bought a burka for my wife for Christmas

I didn't say not. I said now hehe.

[zeealice]

they should have this little chemical that isn't harmful to consume, but when it is sprayed over a bomb substance it changes colour from clear to red and when it doesnt the substance stays clear all that is required is for people to empty whatever they have in their pockets or werever, scan them down with a metal detector to make sure, and then spray away.

stupid idea i know.

[Dick Splash]

TSA bumper stickers.

DS

[Cpl Ledanek]

“You don’t need to see his identification.” someone's tale:

On November 21, 2010, I was allowed to enter the U.S. through an airport security checkpoint without being x-rayed or touched by a TSA officer. This post explains how.

interesting

[SnowFella]

Oh just get over it already. Sure your meager personal rights might be violated by a pat down but I'm sure that in 99% of cases the guy/gal doing it is just doing their job like they have been told to, just like your doc is the next time he/she reaches into your pants and tells you to cough...or god forbid sticks a finger up your poo chute to check the prostate.

One thing I am sure of though...is that all the civil rights nutters who so strongly object to these screenings will totally change their tune if security is lessened and someone straps a bomb to their body, or for good effect to their kids body, and takes down a flight. And I'm sure there are ppl out there capable of doing just that without so much as a second thought.

And when if does happen it will all of a sudden be the TSA or whatever security institutions fault for not detecting it.

[Cpl Ledanek]

"All this is very necessary"

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

[Parabellum]

Oh just get over it already. Sure your meager personal rights might be violated by a pat down but I'm sure that in 99% of cases the guy/gal doing it is just doing their job like they have been told to, just like your doc is the next time he/she reaches into your pants and tells you to cough...or god forbid sticks a finger up your poo chute to check the prostate.

One thing I am sure of though...is that all the civil rights nutters who so strongly object to these screenings will totally change their tune if security is lessened and someone straps a bomb to their body, or for good effect to their kids body, and takes down a flight. And I'm sure there are ppl out there capable of doing just that without so much as a second thought.

And when if does happen it will all of a sudden be the TSA or whatever security institutions fault for not detecting it.

I'm trying to decide if you're joking, or if you're serious. I hope that it's the former.

[Dick Splash]

I'm trying to decide if you're joking, or if you're serious. I hope that it's the former.

Topless little boy patted down.

Young woman patted down.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQb9K2lTr0E.

DS

[Rocky]

"You don't need to see his identification." someone's tale:

On November 21, 2010, I was allowed to enter the U.S. through an airport security checkpoint without being x-rayed or touched by a TSA officer. This post explains how.

interesting

Yeh interesting read, thanks for the link.

[Parabellum]

I'm trying to decide if you're joking, or if you're serious. I hope that it's the former.

Topless little boy patted down.

Young woman patted down.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQb9K2lTr0E.

DS

I meant, I hope he's joking that we should just 'get over it'. The BS that the TSA is pulling is just nonsense. Memo to President Obama: Teenage girls and little boys and retired white teachers aren't the people who've been trying to blow up airplanes. /eyeroll

Edited November 24, 2010 by Parabellum

[Cpl Ledanek]

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!NOT WORK SAFE!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sexy Strip down

now, when I worked Security @ airport, it was common for the older 3rd shift crew to make attractive passengers to x-ray their belongings TWICE to get a 2nd look or trigger the metal detector so the female passenger to disrobe as much as possible.

I left Security after a week and went back to Burger King flipping burgers bcoz I couldn't stand my co-workers anymore

[zeealice]

Oh just get over it already. Sure your meager personal rights might be violated by a pat down but I'm sure that in 99% of cases the guy/gal doing it is just doing their job like they have been told to, just like your doc is the next time he/she reaches into your pants and tells you to cough...or god forbid sticks a finger up your poo chute to check the prostate.

One thing I am sure of though...is that all the civil rights nutters who so strongly object to these screenings will totally change their tune if security is lessened and someone straps a bomb to their body, or for good effect to their kids body, and takes down a flight. And I'm sure there are ppl out there capable of doing just that without so much as a second thought.

And when if does happen it will all of a sudden be the TSA or whatever security institutions fault for not detecting it.

youve raised a good point there snow. at the end of the day not every passenger of every plane is a terrorist

[Ruin]

*yawn*

This topic of discussion grows old... let me see if I can find the articles I read the other day:

After observing several airports with the new security screening implemented it was discovered that:

1) It takes on average 9 minutes to get through security (regardless of screening or pat-down)

2) Less than 3% of travelers are screened.

3) Less than 1% are patted down

D) The term "aggressive pat-down" is a media shock term and buzz word, let's stop using it.

5) Screeners are in separate rooms from those selecting people to be screened. There's no cross communication.

5) There is no way to save or transmit images that are taken.

7) Cell phones, cameras and other recording devices are banned from screening rooms

H) Pat-downs can be done in private

I) The person performing the pat down will inform you of where and how they're going to touch you before they do.

10) The media sucks. They blow everything out of proportion and take isolated incidents of unprofessionalism, miscommunication, or plain human error and make it seem like the norm, the standard and something that happens to every one every time (110% of 8 year olds will be stripped, felt up, and offered up as an offering to Master Herbert - All blonde busty women aged 18-24 will have their screening images photoshopped, edited and released as animal porn).

I've been traveling for a long time. I'm probably pushing several hundreds of thousands of flight miles. You know who screened me the hardest? The group that inspected me and my belongings more than anyone (to include a pat down)? The U.S. Army - while returning from Iraq and while carrying an M4.

Boo ######ing hoo. Since when did Americans become such whiners. Since when do people think that the government makes decisions just for fun and to see if they can make people run around bitching and screaming. These security measures would not have been implemented without careful consideration.

As with any new system the initial implementation will not be 100% flawless. There will be mistakes. TSA officials are human. As such, errors are to be expected. How every, any case of unprofessionalism or abuse of the system should be handled swiftly and a harsh punishment executed promptly. The TSA needs to show people worried about this that there is nothing to worry about and examples should be made. Not like you'll hear about it anyway though... I hate the media. *sigh*

I'm not sure Parabellum's signature shines more true than it does now.

Most people here know how I feel about civil liberties. So for ME to say this should mean something... I hope. This new screening does nothing to violate my right to ELECT to fly and it does not violate my right to privacy since all screening can (and is) done in a private setting unless I ELECT not to. Images are destroyed, no one but those trained on the screeners see them, and private rooms are available for pat-downs (which are milder than a Dr.'s physical).

Security for aircraft should NOT fall short because people are whiny and have personal space issues. You accept, when you buy that ticket, that you will abide by all safety rules, regulations and standards that airlines and governments have deemed necessary for the safety and security of your flight. You can't smoke on planes or taunt the pilots. This is part of it.

/rant

This discussion is already old....

Despite attention, it's not all grab and scan at airports

"We're Not Perverts"

TSA Recognizes Problems, Working to Fix Them

Risky Business

From the article above:

So for some, particularly those who have grown complacent, the risks of these new procedures outweigh their security benefit. The Washington Post survey found that to avoid being X-rayed or frisked, one person out of 10 plans to avoid flying. Some of those people will end up doing more driving, which is actually riskier than air travel but feels safer because being behind the wheel conveys a sense of control, which is reassuring. But that feeling is an illusion

[Cpl Ledanek]

...got bigger fish to....OH SH

[WytchDokta]

10) The media sucks. They blow everything out of proportion and take isolated incidents of unprofessionalism, miscommunication, or plain human error and make it seem like the norm, the standard and something that happens to every one every time (110% of 8 year olds will be stripped, felt up, and offered up as an offering to Master Herbert - All blonde busty women aged 18-24 will have their screening images photoshopped, edited and released as animal porn).

Finally, some-one who sees what I see.

[SnowFella]

Yes Para, I'm deadly serious. Get over it or as one of my old supervisors at work would say, "suck it up princess!"

As Ruin said, you ELECT to fly rather than have a right to fly. Just like you elect to drive a car and have to sit through all kinds of tests before you are let out on the road, or elect to get a CCW licence or NFA licence and have to get screened. And I for one elect to fly without having to worry about the bloke in the row infront of me having a pound of C4 stuck in his shorts or his newborns nappie for that matter.

Bet you $5 the main reason why everyone feel so violated by either the full body xray or the patdown simply is because they have nothing to hide and did nothing wrong. They are innocent but get treated like they are guilty of something and that offends them. Beeing innocent untill proven guilty just doesn't fly when it comes to airline security nowadays though since in most cases once you have proved that you indeed are guilty of trying to bring a flight down it's already a smoking hole in the ground and some 300 ppl are dead....or there's yet another hole in a skyscraper.

Heck, ever since Abdullah Asieri stashed enough C4 upp his butt to make a hole in the ceiling I'm suprised you don't have to bend over and spread your cheeks at airline security screenings.

[Parabellum]

Thanks for the clarification, Snowfella. I don't mind the 'enhanced' security screenings so much. What I mind is that they're reactionary, and targeting the wrong people. Who are the people trying to blow up planes? Let's be honest, and put PC nonsense aside for a moment. The people trying to blow up planes are Muslims of Middle Eastern descent. Want to thwart terrorism? Start checking everyone that fits that profile. Start with people coming from Middle Eastern countries. I know, that sets the bleeding hearts all aflutter and hurts feelings, but the truth is the truth. No, the US government will never do that, though. It's better to make EVERYONE feel like a criminal, than to profile the groups that typically commit the actions you're trying to prevent. Instead, we'll have the TSA go and pat down toddlers and laugh at pretty teenage girls coming through security. If the US is serious about preventing terrorism, then we'll focus on the people who've been threatening our security. Until that happens, all of the scanners and pat downs are useless.

Further, I'll reiterate that (and correct me if I'm wrong), aside from 9/11, almost every single attempt to blow up a plane has originated outside the United States. Richard Reid, the shoe bomber, was flying from Paris to Miami. Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, the underwear bomber, was flying from the Netherlands to Michigan. The recent incidents involving explosives hidden inside computer equipment originated in Yemen. Each of these incidents has prompted American authorities to tighten down travel security, even though none of them originated in the United States. Each of them has also been perpetrated by fanatical Muslims. Ergo, if we're serious about security, then we'll tackle the source of the problems. But of course, the American government wouldn't want to offend Muslims everywhere by profiling, so we'll search everyone else. That's the issue.

Edited November 25, 2010 by Parabellum

[WhiteKnight77]

As I have just recently been subjected to this, I can tell ya, I am not happy about it. I not only had to go through the full body scanner, I had to be patted down also. Now if it is a one or the other (if you choose to opt out of the scanner), then why did I have to be subjected to both? I felt like I was a prisoner honestly. The only crime I was committing was trying to get to a job so I can earn a living.

News reports have shown that it is a random selection of people to be selected to go through the scanner as there are not enough scanners to go around. When you are selecting a random group to go through, you enter the reasonable suspicion/probable cause realm and to do searches under such assumptions, you need to have reasonable suspicion in order to do such a search. No one I have seen subjected to either has acted in any way to cause suspicion.

My question is, after I pay $132 to TSA to get a TWIC card after a thorough background check, will I still have to be subjected to said searches? I prove who I am with an official US passport no matter if I fly domestically or internationally.

[Dick Splash]

Memo to President Obama: Teenage girls and little boys and retired white teachers aren't the people who've been trying to blow up airplanes. /eyeroll

The people trying to blow up planes are Muslims of Middle Eastern descent. Want to thwart terrorism? Start checking everyone that fits that profile. Start with people coming from Middle Eastern countries....if we're serious about security, then we'll tackle the source of the problems. But of course, the American government wouldn't want to offend Muslims everywhere by profiling, so we'll search everyone else.

Para, why don't you just say you're all for racial profiling? It'll save you a lot of time typing.

Here's an article about the politics and big business behind the kit. No surprises that L3 are involved. Now there's a company that's been happy since 9/11.

USA Today.

DS

[petsfed]

*yawn*

This topic of discussion grows old... let me see if I can find the articles I read the other day:

After observing several airports with the new security screening implemented it was discovered that:

1) It takes on average 9 minutes to get through security (regardless of screening or pat-down)

2) Less than 3% of travelers are screened.

3) Less than 1% are patted down

D) The term "aggressive pat-down" is a media shock term and buzz word, let's stop using it.

5) Screeners are in separate rooms from those selecting people to be screened. There's no cross communication.

5) There is no way to save or transmit images that are taken.

7) Cell phones, cameras and other recording devices are banned from screening rooms

H) Pat-downs can be done in private

I) The person performing the pat down will inform you of where and how they're going to touch you before they do.

10) The media sucks. They blow everything out of proportion and take isolated incidents of unprofessionalism, miscommunication, or plain human error and make it seem like the norm, the standard and something that happens to every one every time (110% of 8 year olds will be stripped, felt up, and offered up as an offering to Master Herbert - All blonde busty women aged 18-24 will have their screening images photoshopped, edited and released as animal porn).

I've been traveling for a long time. I'm probably pushing several hundreds of thousands of flight miles. You know who screened me the hardest? The group that inspected me and my belongings more than anyone (to include a pat down)? The U.S. Army - while returning from Iraq and while carrying an M4.

Boo ######ing hoo. Since when did Americans become such whiners. Since when do people think that the government makes decisions just for fun and to see if they can make people run around bitching and screaming. These security measures would not have been implemented without careful consideration.

As with any new system the initial implementation will not be 100% flawless. There will be mistakes. TSA officials are human. As such, errors are to be expected. How every, any case of unprofessionalism or abuse of the system should be handled swiftly and a harsh punishment executed promptly. The TSA needs to show people worried about this that there is nothing to worry about and examples should be made. Not like you'll hear about it anyway though... I hate the media. *sigh*

I'm not sure Parabellum's signature shines more true than it does now.

Most people here know how I feel about civil liberties. So for ME to say this should mean something... I hope. This new screening does nothing to violate my right to ELECT to fly and it does not violate my right to privacy since all screening can (and is) done in a private setting unless I ELECT not to. Images are destroyed, no one but those trained on the screeners see them, and private rooms are available for pat-downs (which are milder than a Dr.'s physical).

Security for aircraft should NOT fall short because people are whiny and have personal space issues. You accept, when you buy that ticket, that you will abide by all safety rules, regulations and standards that airlines and governments have deemed necessary for the safety and security of your flight. You can't smoke on planes or taunt the pilots. This is part of it.

/rant

This discussion is already old....

Despite attention, it's not all grab and scan at airports

"We're Not Perverts"

TSA Recognizes Problems, Working to Fix Them

Risky Business

From the article above:

So for some, particularly those who have grown complacent, the risks of these new procedures outweigh their security benefit. The Washington Post survey found that to avoid being X-rayed or frisked, one person out of 10 plans to avoid flying. Some of those people will end up doing more driving, which is actually riskier than air travel but feels safer because being behind the wheel conveys a sense of control, which is reassuring. But that feeling is an illusion

My issue is two-fold:

First, with a warrant in hand, I don't mind a cop searching my house. Indeed, if I'm stupid enough to have something in plain sight to trigger a "probable cause" search, well, I had that coming. Do you honestly want to tell me choosing to fly is probable cause? If so, why aren't the searches being performed by law enforcement officers? That is, personnel that society at large specifically licenses to enforce laws? Oh, right, because that would cost too much. And man, the only thing I hate worse than terrorists on planes is higher taxes! Without law enforcement personnel to perform these searches (and therefore with proper constitutional protections in place), these searches are illegal. PERIOD. You can't ask to have a lawyer present. No judge in the country will uphold the idea that buying a plane ticket is probable cause for being searched. El Al has the right idea when it comes to screenings, but they also do it in such a way that actually works (by paying for the training of the people to the point that they recognize suspicious behaviors, not just men in turbans) and in a way that respects the rights of those being interrogated.

Second, we've already seen a man who found out after he entered the line that the TSA's website was incorrect and that it wouldn't just be metal detectors and x-rays today. He chose not to fly (as others have suggested), only to find out that once you've started the process, you must finish it or face an $11,000 civil suit. I think saying that buying a plane ticket gives the authorities probable cause to do an invasive search or put you through a machine that has a high enough radiation dosage that those recovering from radiation treatments are advised to avoid it, that's a very dangerous precedent.