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Very bad week for NVidia


300Mag
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I love the competitive side of the ATI / NVidia war as much as anyone. We all benefit with faster cards, better technology and lower prices. That all aside, NVidia has had a real bad week.

First, they release a bad set of motherboard drivers for their NForce boards. It chokes and causes all sorts of grief by misidentifying hard drives, CD Installs, etc.

Next, Futuremark (Madonion) has finally confirmed that NVidia cheated to gain a higher benchmark in 3DMark03.

3DMark03 Issue

Futuremark came out with a new patch yesterday that disables the ability of NVidia drives to do this. Interesting comment in the Futuremark findings. When the internal code of 3DMark03 was changed just enough to disallow detection by NVidia drivers that 3DMark03 was being run (which is exactly what NVidia was doing) the score of the brand new 5900 FX card dropped 24 percent.

Second, a group of MIT Engineering students have written an OpenGL wrapper that will run the NVidia "Dawn" demo designed for the GForce FX on ATI DirectX 9 cards. I've done it and it works perfectly. Not only does it run it, but the Radeon 9800 driven attempt comes in faster with a higher image quality rating than the cards designed to run it.

Dawn Demo Results

Not intended to start a flame war. I have owned both ATI and NVidia products in the past. Just wanted to throw this out as it will get interesting real fast.

Edited by 300Mag
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Yep Me too 300Mag.

I had an NVidia TnT V770 Ultra RevB on My Old PC. The new one is running with an ATI Radeon 8500LE 64MB DDR and I've had nothing but Compliments for ATI since I've had It.

I mean GAWD Man - 121 FPS, and 80 FPS when the going gets Intense...

IMO - Smokin' - And all of the Proof I've ever needed to make My next purchase of a Video Card an ATI Product as well.

Regards,

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not meaning to stray topic but on frostbite i am getting 45-50 fps, sometime slipping to 29 on my 9200 128meg. is this good or bad ? how can i change this ?

sorry.

Edited by =UAL=Havok
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ya on a fresh reformat i put in 3.4 cat with latest mmc 8.5 or .15 latest .

p4 1.5ghz (dell dimension4300 :( )

512 sdram

santa cruz

cable internet

what is a good fps rate ?

Edited by =UAL=Havok
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I'm pretty sure your 9200 can go quite a bit higher than that. I would expect that card to be capable of 70 to 80 consistantly. Unfortunately, I think you may be seeing the limits of the CPU. A 1.5GHz P4 is not the same as a 1.5GHz Athlon. Just my guess, as I have seen my Athlon 1800 become bound on a few games where my graphics card wants to go higher. Saw this in Battlefield 1942. I picked up a 2500 Barton and the problem went away. Sorry, I may be wrong. Just I know how that feels. I go through it about every 8 months or so. ;)

Edited by 300Mag
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would maybe programs running in background affect things ? prolly eh ? when i go into the settings to change 3d or open g/l it usually affects gr making it hard to read menu items and seeing outline of a box around cursor. so i just let the card at application preference with antistropic and anti-aliasing on and truform and smoothvision enabled. if i get a lot of tangos it drops to 19fps which seems really low but will jump back to 30 .to see sotomac hitting 120 with a 64 meg just made me realize maybe mine should run faster. i run gr at 1280 by 1024.

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Havok, I have a 1 ghz p3, 512 sdram, ti4600 card and run above 30 except on desert maps it'll dip into 20's at times. Curious, go to start, settings, control panel, system, click on performance tab--should show percentage of free ram. I'm at 88%--if you are in 60-70 range you'll improve by shutting down background items. I play with shadows off, 1024/768, everythingelse on high, bullet holes set to zero, mipmap on.

300Mag, interesting, have always been a nvidia type, but methinks an ati will go in my next computer.

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Yep,

It is pretty interesting stuff. I am in no way attempting to bash NVidia. I have owned several of their cards are was always pleased. It's just worked out to a bad few months for NVidia and a few good ones for ATI. ATI has had their share of troubles. Hopefully, they will both be solid contenders in the future as it gives us options and fuels new technology. I feel the same way about Intel and AMD.

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NVIDIA Responds - 5/23/03 6:02 pm - By: MikeC - Source: Email

NVIDIA has issued a brief response in regards to the alleged cheating that FutureMark claimed took place in certain Detonator FX drivers.

It is not known at this time if NVIDIA plans to issue further statements on the matter.

Since NVIDIA is not part in the FutureMark beta program (a program which costs of hundreds of thousands of dollars to participate in) we do not get a chance to work with Futuremark on writing the shaders like we would with a real applications developer. We don't know what they did but it looks like they have intentionally tried to create a scenario that makes our products look bad. This is obvious since our relative performance on games like Unreal Tournament 2003 and Doom3 shows that The GeForce FX 5900 is by far the fastest graphics on the market today.

Additional information can be found in a report at CNet's News.com.

McCarron said manipulation of benchmark testing is common in the PC industry. "The best advice is to pick an application you're going to use a lot and find someone who's done testing using that", he said.

latest statement from Nvidia more to follow

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I love the competitive side of the ATI / NVidia war as much as anyone. We all benefit with faster cards, better technology and lower prices. That all aside, NVidia has had a real bad week..............

Wow, that's interesting stuff, makes me laugh. I really can't keep up with all the advances and who's card is best at what and whos drivers are better.

Like you said, sounds like a bad time for Nvidia right now though.

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it would seem that not only nvidia could have been cheating to get high scores

ATI Technologies’ Director of PR, Chris Evenden, responded to accusations in cheating with the CATALYST drivers in order to achieve higher results in 3DMark03. The scandal broke on Friday, the 23rd of May, when Futuremark, the developer of the 3DMark03 issued a document stating that NVIDIA and ATI Technologies implemented cheats in drivers in an attempt to score better in 3DMark03 benchmark.

According to ATI’s representative quoted by Beyond3D in their editorial over here, the 1.9% performance gain came from optimization of the two DirectX 9.0 shaders (water and sky) in Game Test 4. ATI rendered the scene exactly as intended by Futuremark, in full-precision floating point. Their shaders were mathematically and functionally identical to Futuremark's and there were no visual artifacts; according to ATI Technologies, the company simply shuffled instructions to take advantage of their architecture. ATI states that these were exactly the sort of optimizations that work in games to improve frame rates without reducing image quality and as such, were a realistic approach to a benchmark intended to measure in-game performance. However, ATI recognized that these can be used by some people to call into question the legitimacy of the benchmark results, and so they would remove them from their driver as soon as is physically possible. They expect them to be gone by the next release of CATALYST.

ATI Technologies was less aggressive in its statements than NVIDIA Corporation, who accused Futuremark of developing unfair benchmarks. Nevertheless, I would point out that ATI will not have to remove anything from the drivers keeping in mind that Futuremark already made the patch to ignore the cheats. Another thing for you to note is that 3DMark03 is not a game and every single technique to “optimize” it can be considered as a cheat. I wonder if ATI actually optimizes anything for real games with pixel shaders.

Anyway, the company claims it will not cheat again with the 3DMark03 and that is definitely a positive piece of information. But what about NVIDIA?

You can download the patch that defeats cheating mechanisms in drivers by NVIDIA and ATI Technologies for Futuremark’s 3DMark03 here.

Source: X-Bit Labs

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NVIDIA Corporation, who accused Futuremark of developing unfair benchmarks

Am I reading this right?

:blink:

That is the most idiotic statement NVIDIA could have made. I am a big fan of NVIDIA and I am still hoping they'll pull something off that will leave ATI in the dust. But that is not the right way to go about it...

It's like saying "Can you please stop being so good? This is not fair." :huh:

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