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Blue Diamonds, Massive AI & Weapon Kits

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In an effort not to type nearly as much, I wanted to respond to the feedback that I seem to get now quite regularly about the lack of blue diamonds, new weapons kits and amout of AI that were on the Harry Lee map and soon to be RAT map. Apparently, some folks want something unique and different, but others do not want change and keep the status quo.

Each one of the missions that I do, I want to add something different. Usually, this stems from requests from the GRAW2 community or folks challenging me stating that something perhaps cannot be done (AI limits, GRAW 1 props, GRAW 1 conversion, removing blue diamons ... and a few others that you may see soon :rolleyes: )

With the last two missions (Harry Lee and RAT), I have pushed the envelope even further in that our online large teams were getting bored with the 15-20 minute missions and wanted something more challenging... which I provided with the 2,000+ AI and removal of the blue diamonds. With the added AI, the teams needed a way to increase the amount of ammo that they used, hence the new weapons kits.

There are now 100 mission mods for download on GR.NET, most of which have the standard blue diamonds, moderate AI limits and the usual weapons.

The removal of the Blue Friendly Diamonds is new and unique. In addition to the removal of the Friendlies from the tac map, adds a whole new dimension to GRAW2 to where you need to focus more on where your friendlys are, increase communications and most importantly, we've seen an increase of teamwork versus internal competition for the AI kill.

Most of the kits are still there, just removed 12 rifleman & 12 snipers and replaced these standard 24 kits with 23 new kits for a total of 52 kits ... so if you wanted something a little more than what the originals had, it is there... if you want some dummied down kits, they are there as well. You still have 52 weapons to choose from instead of 53... the only thing I cannot accomodate is if you modified the standard weapons to make your kits or weapons more powerful... IE the pistol cheats, the M14 kit that has unlimited ammunition, etc.

As far as the increase amount of AI; lately some of the more popular "dedicated" servers are becoming full to capacity. All across the board, we have seen popular clans increase their GRAW2 memberships, causing more folks to play online, who need more challenges. Yes for Lone Wolf, 300, 500, 2000+ AI is very excessive... these maps are not for you. I alone have created 79 Lone Wolf coop missions and 21 SP campaign missions just for the Lone Wolf player not to mention what the other past and present developers have done.

We can keep delivering the same old repetitive missions over and over again. Or we can come up with new and unique ways to challenge the players. A comment by a habitual poster a little while ago on these forums refered to the fact that GRAW 2 missions just regurgitate the same old props & maps over and over again to a new forum user. This bothered me in that the member was right... for the most part we do with the exception of a few outstanding modders. So it *IS* my mission to continue to add a bit more creativity to the game and shortly after I read that post, I created my own 3D MAX objects, then converted a GRAW1 prop... still learning.

The challenged is trying to please everyone all of the time. I have folks that want the blue diamonds back or create separate missions, folks that want the weapons back or create them in separate missions, those that want one or the other or both... These missions are the way that I make them means that I am already creating 16 missions. With the different permetations, I would then need to create 64 missions .... could be done, but hay, most folks typically only release 1 mission at a time.

So in reality, I am going to stick with the direction that I am heading; trying to please as many gamers as possible, but still pushing that envelope. However, I would like to hear real discussions here on the forum:

What so you really like about GRAW2 missions and how we could make them better?

What are your public thoughts about the new gametypes? (meaning lack of diamonds, weapons kits & Increased AI)

I would prefer great public discussions versus PMing me individual suggestions, comments or complaints. This way, we can help feed off of each other in a positive fashion!



Holy crap this turned into a long post :wacko:

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What a great topic Bogie, :thumbsup:

I think everyone will agree that you are the best mission scripter/modder this site has got, I don't know how you keep dreaming up all these new ideas for your new missions, I wish that my imagination was this active.

You will never be able to please everybody but what you are doing here is the next best thing as you always include a lone wolf version alongside the multiplayer mission so there is something for everyone.

Maybe it would be a good idea if we made various types of missions, some will be like your last with a high number of AI (up to 2000) and others that are of a more "normal" type (around the 300 mark), I don't have the time or the knowhow to make these large missions that also includes the weapon kits, so I will probably continue doing my usual missions with the occasional "Armageddon" type of mission thrown in to the mix.

As you mentioned you are pushing the boundaries adding the graw1 props and the ever increasing types of game play with the removal of the blue diamonds and adding the extra weapon kits, so between the two of us and the other mission makers out there we should be able to keep the masses happy. :)

As Bogie says, it would be good to hear other peoples comments on the direction our missions are taking and what they would like to see added/removed for the co-op type of missions.

So, to all the people sending Bogie their suggestions on what they want to see in a mission why not post your ideas here then we can all add our comments.


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i think the no diamonds are fine and so are the kits to a point. i dont think all new maps need different kits . as far as the increased ai , that is fine as long as u can keep the crashes at bay (which i think is impossible) as they happen more and more with the ai above 600. i think 600 ai on a map no matter how big the map is is plenty. maybe make some more narcoms with new voices and keep these to a few as possible on a map (or none at all) and i think the maps should be made able to finish on 1 life (just like the missions) or add a mule to high ai maps (most ppl know what the crashes are now so having a mule in game would be nice for a change) maybe have a map that has mostly snipers (like a sniper hunt)

ps its still and will always be a competition for the AI kill

later Zero

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I know that the inclusion of Lone Wolf versions is something I definitely look forward to on each new release and the new massive AI missions are the ones I tend to join online for some co-op.

What I've noticed joining these servers is that people are not joining and being overwhelmed by the opposing force, and just quitting after a few minutes. They are sticking around and getting tallies of 200 to 300+ kills each, so this new idea you've had is being well received, and like you said, many servers are at capacity again, which is awesome.

The addition of new assets from GRAW 1 is awesome too, but like JohnTC02 I bow down to your imagination and cannot think what you will dream up next, but I know it'll be worth the wait :D

I did not realise we had reached a 100 mark milestone for GRAW 2 missions, that is awesome, worthy of a news post....

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Hey guys.

I think the changes bring a lot fun and new experience.

The forced teampay via "Missing Diamonds"is a great idea, but ppl. without VOIP programms will have hard missions to play. It would be great if some "public" players will give some feedback. Guys who dont make use of VOIP.

If iam totally honest, i just play all the standard missions of GRAW1 with my teammates, because those AI arent that dumb as in GRAW 2. That is better tactical gameplay because the bunch of uninterested AI which sits in any corners doesnt exists in here.

Moreover the AI of GRAW 1 tries to go around you when they saw a ghost. I like that.

It would be great if the AI of GRAW 2 can do all of this. -> Hope on GR 4.

For me its not that every mission must have around 1000 of AI, if it only has ~75 "intelligent" AI it will be a great mission.

The new weapon-kits are awesome. Just have to learn to handle them. Rocks !

Thanks for all the time you guys are putting in all missions.



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My hats off to you Bogie, and others that have put in so much effort in createing maps. I love the lonewolf / SP stuff as well as my partner (Marlene) and all the new developments are way cool.

As one of the "consumers" of all this effort, I think those of us not putting in the time should just be greatful you are willing to put in the effort and rather give you ideas rather than personal preferences.

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This is a great conversation and VERY helpful. I received another PM from a regular clan member\player who had this feedback:

... Also, I wanted to put in a little poke (plea) for some more GRAW1 maps. I have to admit that these really long missions are wearing me down....

... Now we have several missions that are "large squad" missions which is good, but I have to admit that even though I like doing these missions every once in a while, I really prefer to do a mission that our squad can run through in a half hour, get a drink and pee :D and do another one, lol. I have to say that the thing that I love about your missions is that even though it may use a map that I know, it's different enough to be a totally new environment. I LOVED the mayday map. I actually really liked your first version of that mission the best (even with the sparkly ground, lol) because it suited the sneek and shoot style of the game well. I would really love to see you continue with that (w/o losing the "no diamonds" and "new kits" which I am really getting into) but not make the missions as long.

... with 3 others doing missions, there will be plenty of opportunities to play stock maps. I have to say that I like what you have been doing the best and I always look forward to what you have next (just make it shorter, lol). Enough rambling.....

Again, thanks for all of the feedback and suggestions. Please do not hesitate to comment, make suggestions or even criticize the missions on this thread as all feedback is good feedback and can only make the future missions that much better!!


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