[Ideas for new map for player vs player]

[oz-ares]

Hey folks.

I want to do a new map for player vs player.

I want to realize the dream of some of our members to do a "own" map.

There are a lot of coop maps, and a lot of players want to have more maps for pvp, so i will try one.

So i get a dictionary first, read all manuals and try to get it work.

To get the map functionally i will need some help by some modders who already did a map to help me.

At first i want to show the "ideas" and the answer "why i want to do this map".

- mission 10 will be the landscape. Using the trench under the bride and some of the locations where mission 10 is ending, near the bunker .

- spawnareas will have 4 sides to leave and enter (North, South, West, East) ...one of that ways in every main-spawn-location (where the characters appear) will be blocked by cars.

- the map will have 3 districts. Spawnpoint Team 1 will be surrounded by little houses and much corners. The spawnpoint of Team 2 shall be done even/ similar. The middle of the map shall be an open area, so thats not that easy to get on "the other side".

- spawnloactions: i want to try, that evry team have a lot of possibilities to leave the spawn in 4 directions and the chance to get cover as soon as possible in surrounded houses. So if an strong enemy is approaching near the spawn, there are some possibilities to get cover. Moreover i want to block the way into spawn, so that the spawn is unreachable for nades and spawnkillers.

The spawn cant be entered, only left by spawned ppl.. I can do cars as a blockade and put ramps or stairs before them, so that spawned players can leave the spawnzone and enter the warfield.

... that is the basic structure i have.

Are there any suggestions or opinions?

I need a "plan" before i will start. So iam open minded for your expert knowlege.

I will be highly depended by modders, because it is be my first map.

So it would be cool if some ppl. can give feedback, hints and stuff.

Thx, Kind Regards

OZ*Ares

Edited August 8, 2009 by oz-ares

[TAW_Zero]

http://graw2.pbworks.com/

to get u started

and to block the spawn u can use pretty much anything u want to prevent them from entering like even a slanted wall

[oz-ares]

Thanks. I already watched the wiki. It much better than the given manual in "Public_tools". But its not focused on TDM or HH (PvP maps).

There are some options like AI Graph and stuff, and sound ... i dont know what i really need, and what is unimportant.

But in TDM and HH i dont need the AI Graph ... so i will blend that one out of my mind.

The problem is i cant understand english as good as needed i think.

This is the day i wake up and realize what the teachers were telling me 12 years ago "English is important. Learn it for yourself". ... Damn i played football

There are so much objects to block the spawn. Iam not really sure how to do that. Test, save test save .... ^^

Is it normal that the editor crashes very often (after 20 mins after editing 3 buildings)?

BTW: Nice weekend

Edited August 8, 2009 by oz-ares

[TAW_Zero]

yes crashes often so save after u do each thing

[bogiegraphics]

Hey there OZ*Ares!! Glad to see that you are making the plunge into map design. I do have a few hints & suggestions:

The Editor does not crash once you figure out where the crash points are. I very rarely have an editor crash unless I run out of memory. Typically a crash occurs switching between layers: locations, ai_graph, dynamic, etc. To reduce the risk of a crash always switch to "Static Props" before going to any other layer. Example: If you are placing "Locations" and want to go to "Dynamic Props", Save first, then go to "Static Props", save again, then switch to "Dynamic Props". If you (as an example) went directly from "Humans" to "AI Graph", you would probably crash.

So alway, always save, go to "Static Props", save again, then go to the layer that you wish.

With the TDM, DM, Seige, HH maps, you really only need the map itself and all of the locations needed to support these gametypes. You are correct that you do not need the ai_graph or humans. However, what you do want are the following: minimap, compass, generate lightmaps (after you've placed all of the props), locations for the TvT games, dynamic ADATs for Siege, etc.

I would recommend looking at some of the more recent TvT maps from the experienced folks at their placements of the locations as well as the mission.xml & world_info.xml to setup the game itself.

Take care and good luck!!

Bogie

[oz-ares]

Thanks a lot!

Now i know what i ve to do (need) and what step must be done first.

To set buildings, i simply set them, where i need them, isnt it?

FBG Seb said it was difficult, and i agreed at first. But after 10-20 minutes i ve set a building that it doesnt have laggs. (I mean, there are some maps and buildings, where i can ve a look under the map)

I dont have to change them in the editor or give every building names like i ve to do it on e.g. cars in coop "panhard_01"? I didnt read that out of the maual, so thats an important question i think.

BTW: I started to do the map the 6th time. ... its very difficult and my english suxx.

THX

Kind Regards

Ares

[bogiegraphics]

Your english is great...probably better than mine

You are correct; you do not need to set building or prop names unless you wanted to use them for a special mission function like opening a door with C4. So placing a building and lining it up is all you need to do. It is very helpful to use the graph when placing buildings to line them up a little easier.

Hope this helps and keep up the great work!

Bogie

[oz-ares]

I just set a destroyed adat and was wondering, why it was ~ 20 inches in the air.

I read and watched the mauals again and find "mouse 4". But what does that do?

EDIT: I find the "ctrl+up, down, left, right" combinations to set static objects correct.

Those manual videos of davros are awesome helpful. !!!

I ve a Logitech G9 mouse which have 5 buttons. Moreover i cant set wall by wall, because i cant select and movie the statics. Thats wierd. Anyone ve an idea?

Everytime i save in the editor, there will be an world.xml added, isnt it?

I ve about 20 world-20.xml. Can i delete them?

Edited August 12, 2009 by oz-ares

[bogiegraphics]

I ve a Logitech G9 mouse which have 5 buttons. Moreover i cant set wall by wall, because i cant select and movie the statics. Thats wierd. Anyone ve an idea?

There are different layers of "static" props. When you go to "Static", the default is the Buildings and larger props. Press [ctrl] + 2 for the "Small Static" props and [ctrl]+3 for the "Landscape" props. Press [ctrl]+1 will get you back to the buildings.

Everytime i save in the editor, there will be an world.xml added, isnt it?

I ve about 20 world-20.xml. Can i delete them?

Yes, and you should every so often delete all of the additional world.xml files.

Take care,

Bogie

[oz-ares]

Thanks Bogie!

This editor increases my frustration level

I think i do all "Statics" first, then the other stuff.

EDIT: Solved... i simply use the "standard settings" of my mouse. Now i can use mouse 4 and place, replace or move the units/objects. So obvious *lol*

Whats up with those little "m2hb_bunker"? - If i set a character and go into the editor, press "x" to make use of the weapon all is fine. If i fire it, the editor crashes with the following message:

"Crash in application version: 30899.3048

data\lib\units\types\weapons\mountedbulletweapon.dsf(-1): cant find member: _name in type <void>

SCRIPT STACK:

data\lib\units\types\weapons\mountedbulletweapon.dsf(0)

data\lib\units\types\weapons\mountedbulletweapon.dsf(0)

data\lib\units\types\weapons\mountedbulletweapon.dsf(0)

Renderer: normal

Physics : normal"

If i use the "m2hb_tripod it works. i can fire it. Thats wierd.

What is the difference between xag_m2hb_bunker (_low) and m2hb_bunker?

Is it only the physx stuff?

THX !

Ares

Edited August 12, 2009 by oz-ares

[bogiegraphics]

Both bunkers and the mounted grenade launcer all give errors if the player uses them. I believe that the mounted grenade launder also gives errors on network games if the AI tries to use them.

The tripod version works just fine.

Try to stay away from the "XAG" objects as they are memory intensive and some older video cards have issues determining the physics when detonated.

[oz-ares]

I have to start the map again from the beginning.

I used the m10_landscape.

But all those small houses with low texture and no collision are looking so bad. So i want to make use of "m10_landscape_clean". Damn! All gone again. ^^

- Are there known problems with m10_landscape_clean" or doesnt matter if i use standard or clean versions?

- Is there a chance or option to let "building_text" / "building_text_military" rotate?

- Which "stairs" i ve to use?

The "fire_ladder" lays on the ground if placed, but i cant rotate them corretly to the final position. Thats just wierd. I work 4 hrs on 1 fakkin "ladder/stair" element.

- Can i place buildings like this? On some custom maps i saw "flying" houses and i was able to look under the map. And i think that doesnt look fine. So is this allowed? >LINK<

THX

Edited August 13, 2009 by oz-ares

[bogiegraphics]

Ares, if you go into the world.xml under <static> section, you can just take the standard M10 landscape and change it to the M10 Landscape Clean so you do not need to change all of the buildings\props that you placed.

You can press and hold the [ctrl] in the editor and use the [up] & [down] arrows to adjust the elevation or how high\low it sits on the ground. So if you find a flying building, you can lower it a little below the landscape if you wish without any problems.

[oz-ares]

Hi there.

There were some questions upcoming doing the statics:

1: Editor starts under the map

***LINK***

Is that normal or a mistake i did?

2: Different colours/ Lightning of units.

***LINK***

Is that correct? The cit_railstation is darker than the cit_office.

If its wrong, what is the mistake? How can i change that?

3: Spawnpoints / Zones

How can i set spawnpoins and a HH - Zone ? I read the manuals, except scripting, a lot of times. again and again. But cant find that part.

The only transfer of "knowledge" from the manuals is:

- Locations (e.g. - box for spawn; name it "spawn_a" for Ghost-Team)

Is that correct?

4: Map Size and textures

I thought it would be cool to do a big, very big map and close a smaller area for PvP Game, and the lage one for an following coop mission. If somebody want to dop a coop man on that, the playable map should be maxed out already.

The effect to do it that way shall make the map more beautiful. I personally dislike low textures with lacks of collision in the background. So the biggest part of the map will be done with "Static" buildings/ units.

For interested ppl.: Here is what i ve done last days. ***DOWNLOAD***

THX

Kind Regards

Ares

Edited August 17, 2009 by oz-ares

[bogiegraphics]

1: Editor starts under the map

***LINK***

Is that normal or a mistake i did?

The editor always starts at the world's 0,0,0 (X,Y,Z) coordinates. So sometimes you start under mountains, roads, etc. Looked OK to me

2: Different colours/ Lightning of units.

***LINK***

Is that correct? The cit_railstation is darker than the cit_office.

If its wrong, what is the mistake? How can i change that?

In the editor, you can press [F6] key to adjust\normalize the lighting as you place your props. For some props, like the buildings, you will need to eventually run lightmaps. Look at the editor tutorial that came with GRAW2 to run lightmaps. In addition, take a look as some of the other missions and how there lightmaps are represented in both the textures\custom_levels\{your_mission_name}\lightmaps as well as the texture_scope.xml.

Lightmaps can be tricky, so if you have issues or errors, post them here and we can assist.

3: Spawnpoints / Zones

How can i set spawnpoins and a HH - Zone ? I read the manuals, except scripting, a lot of times. again and again. But cant find that part.

The only transfer of "knowledge" from the manuals is:

- Locations (e.g. - box for spawn; name it "spawn_a" for Ghost-Team)

Is that correct?

look at one of Galor's more recent maps and you can see all of the required location spawn points for all of the TvT game types.

4: Map Size and textures

I thought it would be cool to do a big, very big map and close a smaller area for PvP Game, and the lage one for an following coop mission. If somebody want to dop a coop man on that, the playable map should be maxed out already.

The effect to do it that way shall make the map more beautiful. I personally dislike low textures with lacks of collision in the background. So the biggest part of the map will be done with "Static" buildings/ units.

The issue is more around memory management. For TvT games, it doesn't seem to be too much of a problem. With Coop and Campaign, you have to add the AI Graphs, AI, etc. which can cause memory issues and eventually lag for the end user. So sometimes the lower poly textures are necessary.

For interested ppl.: Here is what i ve done last days. ***DOWNLOAD***

THX

Kind Regards

Ares

heading out of town tomorrow morning on vacation for a few days. I'll give it a try when I return.

Great work!

Bogie

[oz-ares]

Yap, i pre tested it. After generating the lightmaps with "ctrl+backslash" and 1-2 hrs of waiting it appeared a new xml. Thats great. Now all units are correctly shown.

But at first i ve to place the rest 2/3 of the map. That will give me some hrs to work ... days ... weeks ... will see.

Thanks a lot Bogie !

Kind Regards

Ares

[Whiskey]

hi Oz-ares

Have in mind the 150m in draw distance to so u dont create to big A to B wiev points.

The outlawz banner seems to be from cryengine ?

[oz-ares]

hi Oz-ares

Have in mind the 150m in draw distance to so u dont create to big A to B wiev points.

I will remember on that if i am reached that point. Iam still working on the map design. The map design should allow the whole distance of 200 (?!? common setting?!?), but that sounds cool. Have to figure out, how that works later on.

I think i ve to go on step by step. Its my first time to do a map.

hi Oz-ares

The outlawz banner seems to be from cryengine ?

Yepp, sometimes, if the ppl. in graw2 dont die, or i only hit 2 of 31 shots out of the M416, i ve to recover me in crysis. Thats why xcrossx do the signature for me. -still like it-

[oz-ares]

Ignore this doublepost plz. ^^

Edited August 25, 2009 by oz-ares

[oz-ares]

Hey guys. I have still *some* questions. Iread the manual often, but cant figure out the following problems.

I already created the "Lightmaps", placed a lot static, electric stuff. No xag, no Dynamics (some will come) and some texts.

Moreover i placed some "ambient dummys", created a lightmap, but nothing changed. Thats wierd or not visible in the editor.

Lightmaps:

If i created the lightmaps, do i have to delete the "textures" folder and "ambient_cubes", when i have to do the Lightmaps again? Or can i simply overwrite that files by render them again with "Control+backslash?

The renderer stops at 99 % and 1 minute left. Is that normal? ***SCREENSHOT***

Ambient Dummys:

What exactly are those "ambient_dummys" doing?

Do i need them? Cant understand that from the "GRAW2_manual".

The translation to german means (Umgebungsattrappe), that it is a dummy for the surrounding. OK, but what is the effect?

Building Texts:

I set some building texts and wondered my brain out. Because they didnt fit when i set them with the mouse and keyboard, i configured those placment in the editor.

<unit name="buildingtext_military" unit_id="3493" name_id="text_012" cover_off="false">

<editable_gui text="CHEMICALS" font_size="3" font_color="124 255 255"/>

<position pos_x="8501.2979" pos_y="2873.2639" pos_z="523.41992"/>

<rotation yaw="90.022728" pitch="3.1057681e-008" roll="-179.99802"/>

</unit>

BTW: pitch="3.1057681e-008 --- doesnt that "e-008" costs a lot of "performance"? I think the computer have to calculate a lot on that, or i totally misunderstand that. - Maybe i think too much on that.

I am very afraid, that the map wont work.

I think that are enough questions.

THX

Kind Regards

Ares

[davros]

Hey guys. I have still *some* questions. Iread the manual often, but cant figure out the following problems.

I already created the "Lightmaps", placed a lot static, electric stuff. No xag, no Dynamics (some will come) and some texts.

Moreover i placed some "ambient dummys", created a lightmap, but nothing changed. Thats wierd or not visible in the editor.

Lightmaps:

If i created the lightmaps, do i have to delete the "textures" folder and "ambient_cubes", when i have to do the Lightmaps again? Or can i simply overwrite that files by render them again with "Control+backslash?

The renderer stops at 99 % and 1 minute left. Is that normal? ***SCREENSHOT***

I do not think you need to delete them, but you could. re. rendering, I seem to recall something about changing the screen resolution to 800x600 before rendering (you do this in the game settings and then launch the editor).

Ambient Dummys:

What exactly are those "ambient_dummys" doing?

Do i need them? Cant understand that from the "GRAW2_manual".

The translation to german means (Umgebungsattrappe), that it is a dummy for the surrounding. OK, but what is the effect?

They provide extra light sampling points...place them about objects that appear black/poorly lit.

Building Texts:

I set some building texts and wondered my brain out. Because they didnt fit when i set them with the mouse and keyboard, i configured those placment in the editor.

<unit name="buildingtext_military" unit_id="3493" name_id="text_012" cover_off="false">

<editable_gui text="CHEMICALS" font_size="3" font_color="124 255 255"/>

<position pos_x="8501.2979" pos_y="2873.2639" pos_z="523.41992"/>

<rotation yaw="90.022728" pitch="3.1057681e-008" roll="-179.99802"/>

</unit>

BTW: pitch="3.1057681e-008 --- doesnt that "e-008" costs a lot of "performance"? I think the computer have to calculate a lot on that, or i totally misunderstand that. - Maybe i think too much on that.

I am very afraid, that the map wont work.

Don't worry about the precision, the PC will handle that fine. Placing text is a very tricky thing...sometimes it's easier to delete it in the world.xml and start again.

I think that are enough questions.

Keep asking them, and we'll keep answering, and eventually we'll give you the right answer

Dav

[oz-ares]

Thanks a lot Davros.

I just fpund some "pallets" shown darker than others, i set an ambient dummy and those dark units became even with the others. Thanks a lot. Great gimmick those amb_dummys.

I just realized, that some stuff must be done step by step to make sence/ to make it work.

So i ve to finish the whole statics, dynamics etc. then i ve to do the following steps:

- 1 generate lightmaps: (ctrl+backslash)

- 2 generate silhouettes: (alt+backslash)

- 3 generate minimap: (press "o" after setting 4 points)

Do i have to generate it 2 times if i want to do TDM, DM, HH ?

First generate minimap without "hh-location", copy that file e.g. to my desktop.

set the "hh_location" and create a new minimap and rename that file to "minimap_hh" ?

- 4 generate cubemaps: (shift+o)

- 5 copy the enviroment xml. from any mission

- 6 copy the common "mission.xml" for dm, tdm, hh rules from the "quick.bundle" or an existing custom map

- 7 sort the files to the correct FOLDER STRUCTURE

The manual which is included in the "public_tools" folder is very helpful, but some steps arent shown "step by step", so plz correct those steps if i didnt understand that what i read.

- 8 bundle the files

- 9 Have an happy beta time ?!?

Locations:

What exactly does the "tdm_protect_a" mean ?

I found that on Galors mission.xml, including an script by FSN_Frank, that shows an message if somebody is near the enemy spawn. Is this "tdm_protect_a" only needed for the script in the mission.xml ?

I cant imagine for what else it could be.

<location name="tdm_protect_a" shape="cylinder" pos="-8878.5039 -2303.3545 215.57739" radius="1552.9376" height="800"/>

<location name="tdm_spawn_a" shape="square" pos="-9673.1611 -2673.6438 660.03082" width="335.35547" length="746.47876"/>

Making a map is a full time job. Still cant believe that iam working 3 weeks on this map. is that normal?

If i look up to e.g. Bogie, who does 1 coop map every week i suck very hard.

How do you guys figured all this out? Unbelievable.

Regards

Ares

[davros]

Making a map is a full time job. Still cant believe that iam working 3 weeks on this map. is that normal?

LOL! Yep, that's normal. It's a very steep curve, but the view at the top is great

One advice I will give is to try and not get hung up on the little things...if something does not work, keep going and do the rest of the map, then come back later and adjust it if you syill want too. I can not tell you how many nights I spent on minor details that just did not wor out, (eg. getting a guy to run from here to there in a straight line). In the end, it was an unnecessary detail.

So press on mate, and keep asking loads of questions anytime you need it.

Finally, well done for having a go and look forward to your first release!!

Dav

[JohnTC02]

While the editor is rendering the lightmaps it will freeze so you will not be able to move around, when the process is complete you will then be able to move around again, so if it's still saying 99% that's not problem.

Not sure if you know but you will need to create a file called tdb_texture_set.xml in your lightmaps folder (the editor dose not do this for you) it needs to have all your lightmaps listed in it, if this file is not there then when you load the map in the game it will not load the lightmaps and the map will look very flat with no shadows or dark areas inside the buildings, if you need any help with this then I will try to explain it.

I do not think you need to delete them, but you could. re. rendering, I seem to recall something about changing the screen resolution to 800x600 before rendering (you do this in the game settings and then launch the editor).

Spot on Dav, I'm not to sure but I think the editor will delete the lightmaps from within the lightmap folder when you render them.

[oz-ares]

(..)

Not sure if you know but you will need to create a file called tdb_texture_set.xml in your lightmaps folder (the editor dose not do this for you) it needs to have all your lightmaps listed in it, if this file is not there then when you load the map in the game it will not load the lightmaps and the map will look very flat with no shadows or dark areas inside the buildings, if you need any help with this then I will try to explain it.

(...)

No, i dont know that. Simply copy the content of the lightmaps xml, isnt it?

I studied some existing custom maps from other guys to figure out how some xmls are working.

But big thx ! Will come on that later on.

At first i have to finish the map design.

If iam honest, iam working on 2 maps. Confrontation and a naked "arroyo" with 1 building and 1 destroyed abrams. There i am testing the configurations, so that i understand what iam doing.

The last days i did a lot of work on that "naked" arroyo map, because i didnt understand some functions.

Iam very thankful guys. Awesome support! Thanks a lot!

Kind Regards

Ares