What does Ghost Recon mean to you?

[Kimi]

I did this over at the Ubi forums and also wanted to start up discussion here...

Whether your first GR game was GR PC or GRAW 2, I'd like to chat a bit about what you think of Ghost Recon. What top three words/phrases immediately come to mind when you think of Ghost Recon (the brand, not a specific title)?

Example: I'll use R6, so as to not influence any answers. When I think of R6, what immediately comes to mind is:

1. International - Missions take place in different locations, most that I've never been to.

2. FAMAS - Love that gun. Used it a ton back in Raven Shield for its fast rate of fire, which I felt I needed to make up for my horrendous ping from Hawaii.

3. Team fun - I spent many many late nights playing with my clan.

OK, your turn...Answer and discuss!

[Halli~SPARTA~]

1. Team play as a tactical group rather than run & gun.

2. Tight nit community of FPS followers.

3. The first online game I played inturn I compare every other game to GR.

[krise madsen]

1: Co-op (specifically defend mission on the Polling Station map from GRIT).

2: Non-linearity. Being able to go anywhere in no particular order, and the game not getting all wonky just because I don't choose the most obvious path to the objective.

3: Squad control and soul switching in single player.

4: Realism, like the expanding crosshairs (weapon weight, inertia, movement speed etc.)

5: Bill Browns music. All these years and games later, I still find myself lingering at the main menu just to listen to the music one more time.

[Rocky]

1. Tactical

2. Team play

3. Realism

[Tinker]

1: RECON. The ability to sneak around a map spotting patrols with your BINOS. Marking targets and formulating a plan on the fly.

2: GIMP. Taking a hit to the Arm / Leg etc... Being unable to function 100% anymore for the rest of the mission. Makes you try hard to find good cover before engaging.

3: NO RESPAWN. Very last game here. Now ok, very very last, hmm, ultimate last, ok 1 more... jeez very very very last...

[doubletap]

What top three words/phrases immediately come to mind when you think of Ghost Recon (the brand, not a specific title)?

The problem with "gamers" as apposed to fans of a specific genre or title, is that they are likely to fail to recognize that, as in the case with GR and R6, the "brand" has been shamelessly raped and contorted by demographic-chasing marketing "experts" at the corporate level, that it is an entirely different creature than the award winning game which took by storm those who's "first GR game was GR PC". Something those who's first game was GRAW2 can't possibly appreciate. The original game was developed by people who were focussed on a specific style of gameplay, for a specific audience hungry for such a game, they were not chasing after anyone elses' success.

These are two totally different games marketed under the same brand. Beyond that they are not the same brand at all.

Therefore I would have to answer this question with regards to either GRAW2 OR Ghost Recon.

Sooooo,

Ghost Recon:

1. the feel of the game, there's nothing like it. from it's sandbox design to the eerie silence of the tension-filled environment. The COMPLETE opposite of COD.

2. the simplicity is absolutely magic. here's the mission - go to it, we'll see you at the EZ

3. the potential. what GR means most to me unfortunately is a constant reminder of such a heartbreaking waste. What a future this game had!!!

GRAW2:

1. U

2. BI

3. SOFT

Edited June 19, 2009 by doubletap

[NoQuarter]

What top three words/phrases immediately come to mind when you think of Ghost Recon (the brand, not a specific title)?

The good:

Cold...cold. Too cold

The bad:

Get back to the mission area Mitchell

The ugly:

Return to the mission area Mitchell

EDIT:

OK, your turn...Answer and discuss!

The series is a sum total of its parts.

A direct hit -followed up with two more right in the center, then a misfire, and finally, two clean misses.

When I add it up it is clear that someone needs to re-zero.

(PC)

Edited June 19, 2009 by NoQuarter

[Brettzies]

1. Tactical

2. Team play

3. Realism

That sums it up given only 3 words. I'd add to #2 for Single Play

2. Team Play(mp/coop) or Squad/Soldier Control(sp)

[Fletch]

I'd also go with Rocky's:

1. Tactical

2. Team play

3. Realism

But under realism I never did like the blooming sights. 22 years on Active Duty shooting various weapons I never did see sights do that. I do understand the need to simulate breath control and sight picture, but that feature was so wacked as the enemy could pop up 5 feet from you and until the sights settled you could not hit them.

[Kimi]

5: Bill Browns music. All these years and games later, I still find myself lingering at the main menu just to listen to the music one more time.

I've gotten into the CSI show recently and immediately noticed Bill Brown's name for one of the series. I wonder how many people actually recognize his name for the game music and not TV show.

[Brettzies]

But under realism I never did like the blooming sights. 22 years on Active Duty shooting various weapons I never did see sights do that. I do understand the need to simulate breath control and sight picture, but that feature was so wacked as the enemy could pop up 5 feet from you and until the sights settled you could not hit them.

I agree, it wasn't a bad mechanic some years ago and works for some games, but really when you think about it, it's a very weak game paly mechanic. It's inactivity vs player activity. Instead of doing something, you can zero in fine, and then "wait" WAIT? for the cross hairs to close in because you know it'll be off if you don't. Yet you as the player have already zero'd in and at this point doing nothing to improve your chances. Expanding when you fire is a bit better, but why not just go with the kick back, muzzle crawl instead?

The other alternative is a bit more difficult to make fun(think Brothers in Arms), but something needs to improve here. I played AA3 a little last night and they have the spacebar to breath when you're on ironsights which stabilizes them. I only fired at the range but it was pretty fun and fairly seemless. Simulating a tired arm or being wounded could make this very difficult though. I imagine you'd be swimming all over the place, but then, your are wounded

[CrowmanUK]

1, Great game with loads of replayability

2, Great friends that i've met playing the game, first squad/clan I ever joined was in GR and we all had a blast

3, Disappointment, GR2 was dangled on a carrot but never appeared and the graw franchise never hit the same buttons for me that GR did.

4, Simplicity, moving your squadmates into position and giving orders was a breeze, changing weapons and rate of fire was easy too, now we have "crosscoms" for everything, I know its for the consoles but we've got keyboards with lots of keys, why not use em eh?

5, Beautiful touches, from the sway of trees to the frosty breath of your squadmates, every time I noticed something new it brought a smile to my face.

[viiiper]

Only because it's you & the RSE tag stills hold weight.

Since the classic [GR] (Ghost Recon 1 PC) nothing has come close, what made it the core tactical military game?

The sound field

The best I'd ever heard, from the smooth one liners confirming kills to the thud of the bullet taking your life.

Tactical play

Like no other the actual missions/ maps pushed the team & stealth to eliminate the enemy.

The Mods

Some great weapons packs & some great add ons, pushed the game even further, like sensors and what seemed like unlimited weapons in packs.

The Editor

Endless possibilities that grew the community.

Flexibility

To do what you wanted to do, the only thing I remember being missing was a dedicated server (without graphics card), S.A.D.S. stand alone, remote admined with no graphics card, that was it's problem you needed a remote pc with a graphics card xxx when most windows 2000 servers had only onboard 2d chips....

Since GR1 there has been no other, not even GRAW can compare (sad to say) every game since has been a poor runner up to an old dog classic. Crazy thing is, a modern version today that focused on the community would probably become an instant money spinner.

In this world of multi platform history will most likely never repeat itself as compromised PC/ X360/ PS3 etc... will never spawn a true full blooded thoroughbred.

[Bota:16]

While its hard to view Ghost Recon as a brand anymore since the differences between the [Ghost Recon] the the GRAW series is pretty substantial. Its what I dont get about UBI, they have 2 great franchises (GR and R6) but yet with almost every iteration they competely change the respective games identity. Which to me alienates existing fans to gain other fans. Basically starting over everytime a GR or R6 game is released in terms of "fans". But I'll give it a shot anyways....Actually I'll lump R6 in this as well as I "imagine" them with the same goal in mind.

1.) Uncompromising, it's about what between your ears not how fast you can smash buttons. You make a mistake = you pay the consequences. I know that is not a popular ideal in todays world of ADD gamers.

2.) Promotes and Rewards teamwork and cooperation. Very few games make it essential to work together as a team in order to "win".

3.) Unique, R6 and GR were in their own genre with almost no competition. Though the latest iterations have become the typical cookie cutter shooter with Hollywood having more of an influence than reality.

5: Bill Browns music. All these years and games later, I still find myself lingering at the main menu just to listen to the music one more time.

Agreed, there is just something about his music that is perfect for TC games. Just hearing some music from older TC games brings back alot of great memories. I'm with you, I can just sent in the Main Menu and listen to the music.

[Lauris]

1. The greatest feature - Eyes in the sky.

2. Tactics. Blind fire using tactical map.

3. Freedom.

[belvucker]

I don't have time to type out all the things I think of when I think Ghost Recon, but just to sum it up it's pretty much everything that Rocky, Krise, Viiiper, doubletap, and NoQuarter said. These 5 know what Ghost Recon is and there are many more people out there I just don't have the time to list them, I bet WhiteKnight will have very good things to say, he's been here since it all started. Please get it right, I will seriously die if Ubisoft dont' get it right this time

[oz-ares]

What is GR or GRAW to me.

1: Tactical Gameplay

2: ... its a game for its own

3: Its a near future game, and not this old boring "WW II - Own Hitler XII" standard

What i miss in GrawII

1. An Anti-Cheat-System which works

2. Dedicated Servers for Linux / or better performance

3. The individual weapon selection (like in GRAW I )

4. Download "custom maps" ingame (like in GRAW I)

5. An higher difficult level in SP and Coop (pimped AI)

*** GR (GRAW) is a game for its own. Its not that popular, and its got a small, nice community. ***

*** DONT LET THE GR (GRAW) GAMES DIE !!! ***

Sorry for my bad english, kind regards from Germany .

Stay stealthy

Edited June 21, 2009 by oz-ares

[Phlookian]

All these are GR1 (not really a fan of the GRAW series, although the point & click without using the TAC map approach was interesting)

1. Instant death. That sickening thud as you realise you just lost a lung (then the ground rushes up to meet you). Once that happens a few times you play pretty tactical after that.

2. Soul jumping. Get your AI outta trouble before he does something dumb (& no hero character). Also lets you play all the best bits (why send your sniper to do something, when you can be the sniper/ demo guy etc)

3. Freeeedom! (Nuff said)

[NoFears]

For Ghost Recon I would say..

1. Tactical

2. Unlineal

3. Team play

4. Realism

Can also be said like this..

"Remake old "Ghost Recon" with new Technology that is available for modern day PC games and Game PC's.

Big maps and big missions available in all gametypes in game, modern warefare

Looking forward to see the next Ghost Recon

[migryder]

OK not descriptive words or phrases technically, but they potray the ambience...

to paraphrase...

They're shooting...ya think?

Anyone got a beachball? too funny...

He's history...especially after the sharp report of a single or two round burst from a squad gun right off my right shoulder...who's history?? where??

[Fletch]

I never did like the blooming sights.

I agree, it wasn't a bad mechanic some years ago and works for some games, but really when you think about it, it's a very weak game paly mechanic. It's inactivity vs player activity. Instead of doing something, you can zero in fine, and then "wait" WAIT? for the cross hairs to close in because you know it'll be off if you don't. Yet you as the player have already zero'd in and at this point doing nothing to improve your chances. Expanding when you fire is a bit better, but why not just go with the kick back, muzzle crawl instead?

The other alternative is a bit more difficult to make fun(think Brothers in Arms), but something needs to improve here. I played AA3 a little last night and they have the spacebar to breath when you're on ironsights which stabilizes them. I only fired at the range but it was pretty fun and fairly seemless. Simulating a tired arm or being wounded could make this very difficult though. I imagine you'd be swimming all over the place, but then, your are wounded

I used to do competitive shooting in the military and one of the courses we did required us to run 100 meters to the shooting position and load and fire at targets set up at 25 to 300 meters. The longer you took in getting to the firing line the closer targets would no longer be up for you to shoot at. So getting there as fast as you could and firing as soon as you loaded was very important. Each target was up for only about 10 seconds so the faster you shot the less you had to shoot at the far targets. Believe me when I tell you you can hit targets when your huffing and puffing and feel like your lungs are ready to fall out. Just don't expect to hit center mass unless you are lucky. In one round of this myself and another shooter had to repeat the course 7 times because we both had 100% hits and the targets were blanks so no scoring was possible to break a tie. I wimped out on the 7th time and lost my first shot in the dirt, I was just too damn tired by that point.

BTW this one one of the huge complaints I had against America Army. When you first were trying to pass the rifle course the breath model and rifle sway was worse than RL. but it was imo better than blooming sights.

Edited June 21, 2009 by Fletch

[bogiegraphics]

Great topic, Kimi, glad you started it over here.

1: Strategy = using tactics and multiplayer that changes how you process a mission

2: Diversity = the various weapons, AI movements, layouts, coop, SP ... how does the game creates a new experience

3: Playability = through modding, online experiences and diversity of the missions

Thanks,

Bogie

[Evilducky]

The first 3 things that come to mind when I hear Ghost Recon... AWESOME AWESOME AWESOME! =P

Seriously thought there is 4 things.

- Co-op. I loved playing the game with friends online doing missions and stuff.

- Tactical. The ability to plan out an attack on the map, and then go about the objectives in any order wanted was the best thing ever.

- Soul switching. Having the ability to place my team mates where I wanted them for an attack by taking over there body was really good.

and lastly

- realism. Although probably not the most realistic game out there, but was enough in terms of damage models and the way the AI reacted, and the weapon feel was pretty good I felt.

If the next Ghost Recon game is along those lines, then I will be happy. But to add to make it a good game is to have a good environment *good graphics wise*, a good weapon selection with proper weapon models and stats, ability to penetrate walls with the weapons, and a good story to it. To me a game like that with the 4 things stated above would make me happy atleast, and probably others as well.

[BigLloyde]

Speaking of [GR], obviously the same things that most of the regulars here have already stated, but a few important things.

1: Awesome clan co-op tactical gameplay..........was that mentioned already...

2: [GR] with all the understated stuff created a lot of intensity without all of the over the top and phony crap in most other games, like excessive and annoying voice overs, radio communications, and shaking/rolling world from every small explosion, etc..... Many of the [GR] players are older/more mature, or whatever, and don't seem to need these console type gimmicks to be entertained.

3. Stability......rarely a crash, even with all the mods that were frequently in use. Our clan played both of the GRAWs quite a bit, but quit because of the constant crashing. Nothing more frustrating than having the server go down just before finishing a mission.

[XcrossX]

What is GR or GRAW to me.

1: Tactical Gameplay

2: ... its a game for its own

3: Its a near future game, and not this old boring "WW II - Own Hitler XII" standard

What i miss in GrawII

1. An Anti-Cheat-System which works

2. Dedicated Servers for Linux / or better performance

3. The individual weapon selection (like in GRAW I )

4. Download "custom maps" ingame (like in GRAW I)

5. An higher difficult level in SP and Coop (pimped AI)

-=REGARDS=-