Galil SAR 5.56 Early model preview

[PIC]

Hi!

Here's an early preview of the model I'm working on.

The assault rifle is a Galil SAR

Specifications:

Caliber: 5.56X45mm (.223 NATO)

50 rounds mag!

Barrel Length: 13in.

Weight: 8.25lbs.

Rate of Fire: approximately 550 rounds per minute

It's obviously not finished yet and there are many more details I want to add.

But since I'm very new to 3d modeling (8 days now) I'm not sure what I should leave for the mapping part.

So far I've mainly focused my attention on reproducing accurately the iron sight (Still not ok to me).

It has 3 different sights that could be fully functional if the animation can somehow be linked to a game action like switching the rate of fire... One sight is for long range one for short range and a last one for night shooting.

I'll probably need some help and advices to map texture and animate that thing : )

Here's some WIP shots :

high res

high res

high res

Tell me what you think so far.

Edited May 21, 2009 by PIC

[PIC]

By the way I'm looking for more pictures of the iron sight...from top, front and sides view.

If anyone could help... I didn't find what I was looking for on the web.

[Rocky]

I'm no weapons expert, but that model's looking pretty good to me.

[PIC]

Thanks Rocky

I've worked again on the sight and I think I'm closer to how it should looks now.

I'll post a pic later tonight or tomorrow.

[PIC]

Here we go :

short range sight

flip up night sight

first pers view with night sight

I think this part is ok now.

Now I have a question about the screws. As you can see there's few holes where screws should go.

How would you proceed actually?

I'm not sure if I should model something or if I should cap those hole and use mapping or texture to reproduce them. The Idea is to lower the polys to the max without loosing too much details.

Edited May 8, 2009 by PIC

[CaptainMitchell365]

Well theres a couple things you should know before actually putting too much detail in to your model. Graw's SCAR_Light is actually 3000 polys, i've managed to get a weapon model in game with 7000 polys, so i'd say thats a safe threshold, 8000 is pushing it but i wouldnt expect it to get in game. So i would suggest just texturing the screws and all that stuff in, try to think simplicity. Although that is a great model.

And another thing about animating, all you do is pretty much use the preset animations in the scar_light.max demonstration file that came with your graw 1 public support tools. There should be some tutorials on it, but if it comes down to it i can put the gun in game for you. And for textures i am absolute garbage at doing uv maps and unwrapping so i can't help you with texturing, im on that same hunt for somebody to help me texture as well.

Edited May 9, 2009 by CaptainMitchell365

[PIC]

Hi captain!

Thanks for the advices

So far my model has 2500 polys. I'm trying to get it in the game already..just to try. Brett is helping me doing that too. So far I could get it into the game but the size of my model is way to big compared with the scarL.

Maybe you can tell me if there's a way to make my model automatically fit the scarL while merging the lod.

I'm having an other issue importing my 3ds max 2010 model to max7. Some faces are degenerated.

I did improve the results by tweaking the .OBJ export options but when I export in diesel format it says I have "degenerated triangles, faces"...2 faces actually but I have no idea which one it is. It gives me a face number but I couldn't figure where to look at to display the faces numbers.

Any idea?

Edit:

Ok I've been able to add it to the game but it doesn't last long until it crash screenshot link. Good framerate so far. But it's quite a pain to adjust the size of the model...I don't know if it's a bug but sometime the loda just go back to its original size when I use the time bar to check the animation or even when I add 1 to the vertices weight in the skin modifier subobject..

Edited May 10, 2009 by PIC

[CaptainMitchell365]

Okay fantastic number of polys, First off the way i usually scale models in the game is i go to the default scar scene, then merge my rifle, i leave the scar right where it is do not touch it at all, then i match the grip of my rifle and the grip of the scar up to each other, and i try to make the triggers touch each other. Make sure the symmatry between the two rifles are exactly the same, as in make it seem like both rifles are together. The galil isnt a small firearm and it should be the same size of the scar in real life. So just match it up to the scar thats in the scene.

As for importing from 3dsmax 2010 i would strongly reccomend exporting to 3ds. format

As for degenerate faces you could have 2000 degenerate triangles or faces or polygons and still have the gun in game successfully. I would just ignore that.

Also for that last statement you've made in your edit make sure you have a xform set before you've did the animations.

If you're still having problems i could get it in game for you.

[PIC]

Well that's exactly how I did

Actually I didn't get what the Xform modifier is made for so far. Could you explain me?

For some reasons the model gets more polys while I import it..not that much but still.

Now my problem is more related to the scarl's iron sight staying on the model and my iron sight not aligning precisely while zooming. You can clearly see the problem on this link

By the way the rifle is a Galil SAR which is the shorter version ;-)

[Brettzies]

Now my problem is more related to the scarl's iron sight staying on the model and my iron sight not aligning precisely while zooming. You can clearly see the problem on this link

By the way the rifle is a Galil SAR which is the shorter version ;-)

The Scar ironsight is just an attachment. You have to turn it off in the weapon_data.xml and in the u_yourGun.xml (if it's on in there).

weapon_data.xml:

<mod mod_id="12" default="1" />

Get rid of the default="1" In fact, get rid of the whole line.

Lining up the sights in GRAW is the real trick because there is no real way to do it other then trial and error.

Edited May 10, 2009 by Brettzies

[SnowFella]

If the model gets more polygons when you export it it can mean only one thing, your not counting triangles while modeling. 3DSM will count any continous face, ie face between bordering edges, as one polygon but when exported it gets cut up into it's smallest face..triangles. And tri's (triangles) it's what it all boils down to for gameart!

So a rectangle in 3DSM generally reports as 1 polygon...but for ingame use it's 2 tri's.

As for Xform, it's simply a way for 3dsm to reset it's information inregarding to what normal a triangle has, it's direction, aswell as any scaling that's been done. Any scaling of a model that you have done after resetting xform generally won't carry over ingame...the same can apply to moving or rotation aswell. But what's most interesting is the face directions as neglecting to reset could mean funky lighting of your model ingame.

Here's an example from my GRAW modding days.

(Click for larger pic)

See the overly bright lower rail on that model? That's simply a result of not resetting xform and giving the game engine messed up information about what direction faces where pointing in. Not visible in that screen was the fact that with light coming from one side, say the right side, the upper portion of the rail lit correctly but the lower part lit as if the light was coming from the left side. Can even see indications of that in your screenshot.

A quick reset later and the problems were gone, from memory you can even leave the xform modifier at the top of your stack and it will still export just fine, so resetting as the last step before hitting the export button might be a good idea.

[PIC]

Ok I think I got it! I've put the Xform before scaling and rotating my model...probably the reason why it often resets to it's original size and make the game crash too.

Thank for hint...really good to know

For the triangle problem, that basically means my model have approximately 6000 triangle then. What would be the maximum for the game then 7000 tri or poly?? Is there a way in max to know exactly how many tri I have or should I simply multiply polys by a factor of 2?

The iron sight problem is the second part of my project. Let's say I want to have for this weapon my iron sight as default and the other optics as additional mod. How should I proceed?

Thanks again to all of you! Your help is precious to me

[porterslug]

By the way I'm looking for more pictures of the iron sight...from top, front and sides view.

If anyone could help... I didn't find what I was looking for on the web.

Maybe you are looking for more pics...

Try this one out...

http://strikehold.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/galil_11.jpg

http://www.defconairsoft.co.uk/reviews/kin...il/DSC00602.JPG

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/comm...SD-02-00619.jpg

http://www.remtek.com/arms/imi/galil/galil.htm

regards

porter

[SnowFella]

For the triangle problem, that basically means my model have approximately 6000 triangle then. What would be the maximum for the game then 7000 tri or poly?? Is there a way in max to know exactly how many tri I have or should I simply multiply polys by a factor of 2?

Not really, as I easily could make a polygon that in 3dsm reports as 1 polygon but once exported is several hundred tri's. Now, I don't run Max 2010 but atleast in Max 9 there's a viewport setting that lets you see both polys and tri's for selected objects.

To turn that on all you have to do is click the "Customise" menu and select "Viewport Configuration". In the window that pops up select the "statistics" tab and make sure the boxes for "Triangles" and "Total + Selection" are ticked. If Max 2010 has that feature it will display triangle count for everything in the scene plus for anything selected.

As for maximum tri count...how long is a piece of string?

Now you have proved you can get a 6000 something tri model ingame and working and I'm sure I could also toss a 30 000 tri model in and get it to work. The difference in performance from those models would be totally dependant on the system that uses the model, my new GTX260 would likely run it without hickup but for someone with a slower system it could bog it down.

The rule of thumb instead of staring yourself blind on max tricount is intead to make an as high detailed model as humanly possible but using as few triangles as possible.

Just looking at your model, perticularly of the sight, there's alot of detail modeled there that will not be seen and could either be removed or normalmapped in.

Here's an example.

http://www.snowfella-modworks.com/pics/351...5c9a5ae0e_o.jpg

Circled in red could be done with less segments as it's never really going to be seen.

In blue, are all those holes modeled in? If so then texture them into your normal map. And the step down in the sight aperature itself won't ever be seen so it's "useless" geometry eating up triangles.

As for reference

GAlil SAR reference page

[CaptainMitchell365]

One more thing PIC i would try scaling and rotating and then using the xform, i'm sure you can do it that way but thats just me. In my modifier stack looks like this

Skin

Xform

Gfx_rifle_loda

[PIC]

Porterslug thanks for the pictures but these are for an airsoft model

Snowfella I can't tell you how much these remarks are helping!

Thanks mate. And your image source is just the absolute top reference I was dreaming of...never thought I could find something like this!

Now I know I'll probably modify the first model to make a 7.62 version as well this one with some nice optics.

I'll might need your help for the texturing part because I have no idea about that.. and since you seems to have some skills...

Captain365 that's exactly how I did but the problem occurs as I add a weight to vertices for the anim in the skin modifier. The selected vertices just return to their original size and position. I'll try to restart from scratch to be sure I'm not doing something wrong.

One more thing. gfx_xxx_loda is actually a copy of my model and it's not showing in th modifier stack like in you example. It's not a modifier but just my model's name. Are you sure it should be present in the modifier stack?

Basically I have 3 copies of the exact same model for lod a b and c.

Do you think it is really necessary to use the complete model just for the trigger anim on loda?

[CaptainMitchell365]

That was my bad, usually the name of the model is above the modifier stack or something like that but yeah it should be

Skin

Xform

Starting from scratch would be a good idea.

Open scar_l max

resize your model up to the scar

heres what i usually do

scar and "galil" (in your case) are perfectly aligned to each other.

In your case you just delete scar_loda and rename your Lod_A , LOD_B, LOD_C to whatever matchs your objects files.

Don't forget to apply materials. In my case i do not edit the names i just use scar_light. So which every material was in the scar_light material editor position, you need to apply that one to your model.

After thats all taken care of you xform loda

Now hit skin, then hit up them animations.

Let me run you through the steps of setting a skin just in case!

go to animations hit skin

Modifier stack looks like this

SKIN

XFORM

Now go into skin and under the select title you check vertices. Now hit edit Envelopes. When you hit edit envelopes that tells the program your going to apply a animation. Hit add and start with skin_root. Always start with skin_root first. Set its abs_effect to "1.0"

Now apply the other animations

For the scar's preset animations it is

Anim_firemode

Anim_bolt

Anim_bolt_lock

Anim_trigger

Apply 1.0 to all those animations that apply, lets say you do not have a bolt lock on your gun just leave it at zero. Also iam assuming you know to select vertices to animate them. J.I.C. you forget you jus hit add/ Select anim_trigger/ take your cursor to your trigger and select as much trigger as you can/ go down to abs_effect and make it 1.0. Same goes for everything else

Now once you've done that good stuff. Select skin_root and then turn the abs effect to "0" Make sure when you go to skin_root to turn the abs effect to zero, no vertices on your model are selected. One more thing you have to do is now hit the edit envelopes button to turn off the animation applier. So now the program knows your not gonna throw down some animations on it.

You should be all good to go and export ready. If this still doesn't help just upload that file and i can get it in game faster than you can say ghost recon advanced warfighter is the best game ever.

[PIC]

Thx captain that's how I did actually but this time I didn't add the skin modifier to the other lods and it went nearly all smooth : )

I've finally succeeded importing the model in the game and it has nearly its good size.

The problem is to align correctly the sight without making it looks odd in the Graw hands.

Isn't there a way to align the sight and the aft handgrip separately?

Here we go!

link

link

Edited May 13, 2009 by PIC

[PIC]

Ok now I'm advancing.

I've merged only my lod_A and added non animated parts to skin roots. Then I've added the animated parts to their respective dummies.

It worked like a charm! No carsh at all, no size reset, etc..

And this time the low poly is really nearly done : ) Just need to model a nice mag and 1 or 2 knobs for the bolt lock anim.

3dsm pics :

high res

high res

high res

high res

Lastly I'll be working on optics but I don't know if its going to be for the 7.62 version...not sure the .223 SAR can tahke MODs.

Edited May 13, 2009 by PIC

[CaptainMitchell365]

Good job man keep it up, unfortunately you cannot do the sight and grip seperately. The best way to do it is,

get the gun in game look through the iron sight, if its crooked , go back and in the scene and move it over till you get it right, but keep in mind, you have delete the skin modifier and the xform modifier before you move the model around. After you move it, just do the xform and animation again. Also lodb and lodc do not need the skin modifier, that was probally your issue. Good luck

Another thing to use as reference, is the gfx_scar_loda, line up your weapon with the scar and pretend your putting the iron sights from your gun onto the scar. Make it look as if you are attaching your iron sights to the scar, be one with the scar. Im serious! Then it should be almost perfect if you do that.

[PIC]

Make it look as if you are attaching your iron sights to the scar, be one with the scar. Im serious! Then it should be almost perfect if you do that.

Ok I'll try again that.

Can't wait to learn to texture it : )

[PIC]

Ok here's an update.

I've been playing around to understand the texturing process (mostly UVW mapping and unwrapping)...I don't understand everything...

Now I didn't really advanced on my mesh in the mean time but I thought I could just show you how I did succeed adding photo texture to my unfinished mesh.

Hight res

High res

High res

Next time I'll show you the finished model and then I'll seriously start to think about texturing it.

[PIC]

Voilà!

- 6013 triangles

- 5993 polygons

- 6872 vertecies

It's not skinned yet and that's the biggest thing I'll work on from now.

High res

high res

high res

High res

By the way anyone having some texturing skills are welcome to participate to my projet!

Edited May 21, 2009 by PIC

[PIC]

I'm still trying to deal with hands position.

Is there a way to move the left hand position? I've tried to move the dummy but it seems to have no effect in the game.

Here's a pic (please do not look at the skin I know it's really ugly...I've just fitted some picture so far)

[SnowFella]

Looks like you have the dummy rotated 180 degrees to me, try rotating it 180 and then check how it turns out.