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Download Ghost Recon: Heroes Unleashed (Version 1.0.0 Beta 9)   Spread the word, folks. Long live Ghost Recon!   PS: A huge thanks goes out to Wombat50 for doing weeks of

LOL. Well then, you guys asked for it... taken directly from the Beta 9 ReadMe:  

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Something I noticed is that shotguns feel a bit too powerful on CQB. I've one shot killed heavily armored tangos at close range, which may have been the intended result, but I think they are too powerful. How powerful is every pellet's individual kill energy?

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Most shotguns in military application are loaded with 12 Gauge 2.75" shells containing 9 pellets of 00 ("double ought") buckshot, each of which is essentially equivalent to the projectile from a low velocity .38 large firearm cartridge found in e.g. those revolvers that were the standard sidearm of police in the United States until the 1990s. The kinetic energy of those 9 pellets over a short distance is, as you can imagine, immense. With typical muzzle velocities of 400 m/s, we are talking about roughly 2,500 Joules of muzzle energy - more than five times that of e.g. an M9 (9mm Parabellum) or M1911 (.45 ACP) pistol.

At close range of e.g. up to 5-10 meters, shotgun pellets essentially act as one mass, and being hit by this massive barrage is much like being run over by a train, causing entry wounds of up to 5 cm in diameter. Beyond this range, the shotgun's individual choke and barrel length will determine its effective "kill energy" at the target, as this energy is divided between the spreading pellets. Generally speaking, with spherical pellets being poor projectiles, most will lose the bulk of their deadly impact energy over a relative short distance and usually won't be able to penetrate skin far beyond 100 meters.

Seeing how fast their pellets lose kinetic energy, the domain of combat shotguns consequently lies in close range engagements up to a maximum effective distance of about 50-100 meters. So while range to target is an extremely important factor with shotguns, for typical CQB situations they are about as deadly as a handgun can be.

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Well that makes sense. Also related to kill energy, is that the 5.7x28mm FN AP rounds are less effective against armored targets than .45 ACP in-game. I'm fairly certain that is because of the RSE standard wound system based on chance, as all RSE games that I know use energy for a bullet instead of say momentum or a preset damage.

It's a shame that OGR doesn't allow to set a certain penetration level for certain weapon/bullet types, it would have allowed that heavy but slow bullets (.45 ACP) penetrate less than fast, light, AP designed bullets (5.7x28mm FN or 4.6x30mm HK).

Edited by Jose21crisis
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2 hours ago, ApexMods said:

Some have even less. :o

 

to anyone who dislikes this, when i was a marine my standard issue was 6 magazines. sometimes i only loaded 4 magazines and left the rest behind. i knew guys who only used 2. ammo gets heavy and magazines take up space. besides warfare isn't like DOOM or CoD, you don't mow down hundreds of people and fire blindly at anything. you engage targets that you can hit and shoot from positions that are safe. sometimes it's best to avoid contact altogether. 

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Ammunition load out in Heroes Unleashed beta 9 indeed tries to reflect realistic scenarios as closely as possible, while at the same time taking the game's inherent limitations into account, i.e. a real-world special forces squad would e.g. share the load of LMG ammo belts between team members, while Ghost Recon sadly offers no flexibility in this regard, and the same goes for secondary equipment like hand grenades, AT munitions, etc. Consequently, load out in the game can never fully mirror reality, and is kept on the lower end of the spectrum for the sake of gameplay in HU beta 9.

How much ammo is taken with each individual weapon depends on soldier and weapon role, as well as weapon and ammunition weight, e.g. a rifleman can carry more rounds of a smaller and lighter caliber like 5.56mm NATO with a compact assault rifle than 7.62mm NATO with a larger heavier battle rifle, and a marksman with a massive 12.7mm anti-materiel rifle will carry fewer rounds with him than one equipped with a sniper rifle firing .338 Lapua Magnum.

Lastly, let me ask you folks this: How often have you ever run out of ammunition in vanilla Ghost Recon, or previous versions of GRHU for that matter? I'd venture a guess and say most people never experienced this, and I'd even go so far as to say that most people don't conserve ammo at all when playing GR. Hopefully, HU beta 9 can change that somewhat.

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Army is standard 7+1 magazine 

I use to carry 10+1 + 4 40mm + 2 frags.

 

Unless there was clear and present dangers. I would carry more. 

17+1 + 6frag + 11 40mm. With no assault pack I would weigh in at around 100lbs of gear. 

I usually kept an assault pack in a truck with extras. Flares, mortars, smoke, star clusters, frags, 40mm, mags.

 

We came to fight lol

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Oh and side note like Apex said. While I was on a mortar crew. If we were doing long range patrols. 

30 men all would carry one or two rounds. So 40-50ish rounds of HE ready if needed. 

 

GR really cant handle that kind of gear/loadouts.

Edited by pz3
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Side note though. 

 

I do believe kit items are serverside only in GR. So if you want to up your mag count numbers you can modify it save it and if you host the coop/tvt. It should update for any clients. 

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You mean Richard's First Person Weapon Mod, right? Well, first of all, I think it's just amazing what has been accomplished here from a technical standpoint. Strictly speaking, this is not a mod but rather a "trainer", an application that runs alongside the game executable and changes memory registers in real-time to achieve the changes we see here (IIRC, Richard used Cheat Engine to create the trainer). It must have been a huge amount of work to locate the corresponding memory addresses, let alone the trial-and-error process to accomplish a workable solution for the new camera position, so kudos to Richard for a job very well done. As a side effect, Richard's work also underlines the sheer limitless potential once Ghost Recon executable code is altered. While trainers like this allow a glimpse into the possibilities, full source code access would open the doors to entirely new dimensions in Ghost Recon modding.

But I digress (again).

All the above being said, personally I still prefer to play the game in its original perspective. I don't mind the lack of a visible weapons model all that much. Sure, it can be a nice visual feature, but then again this advantage comes with its very own shortcomings, e.g. the FOV warping through the weapon when moving (depending on character stance), fired AT rockets appearing from out of nowhere off-screen while the launcher is in full view, etc. For some players this may be a very small price to pay in exchange for having a weapons view they're used to from other shooter games, but for me, as I hardly play any other shooters (there simply aren't any that I'd prefer over GR), these very prominent visual glitches kill a lot more immersion than is gained by those few visible pixels of the firearm I carry. Ultimately, whether or not to use a mod like this simply comes down to personal preference, and for that reason alone I'm very glad such a mod exists, because that's what mods are for.

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Another (serious) problem, at least with the First Person Weapon View Trainer from the download section, is that often the backblast of the AT rockets hit the soldier holding the AT weapon, causing accidental wounds or kills (depends on endurance). It is a great addon to the game, it is by no means as perfect as, say, SWAT 3's full body awareness (the mode that had to be forced through the console or launch command).

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Either way, I still love Ghost Recon. It's a damn shame the series became so much more casual. I understand it appeals to a wider audience but I can still be salty. 

 

Closes thing I have is ARMA 3 which I love. But it still is vastly different.

 

the only Modern day game coming out I'm excited for is Ground Branch

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1 hour ago, kothen said:

Either way, I still love Ghost Recon. It's a damn shame the series became so much more casual. I understand it appeals to a wider audience but I can still be salty. 

Hear, hear! :thumbsup:

1 hour ago, kothen said:

the only Modern day game coming out I'm excited for is Ground Branch

I'm keeping my fingers crossed for John and his devoted team. They've been working on Ground Branch as a labor of love for what feels like eternity, and I hope they'll be able to pull this off and ultimately be rewarded with a commercial success befitting their years and years of dedicated efforts.

Meanwhile, I have to admit that Escape from Tarkov has increasingly caught my eye, lately. While I'm extremely wary of the whole MMO aspect and the game's resulting predisposition to typical online-only restrictions that may in the end still absolutely kill it for me, Battlestate's execution of EFT's tactical realism FPS side looks mouthwateringly excellent so far, and possibly even surpasses Ground Branch's attention to detail (although it's probably still far too early for that comparison).

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While I'd love for GR to return to its roots and I love tac shooters, Ground Branch seems to be our best hope for that genre. 

For everything else, I just want a good game. 

But to return to the topic of Heroes Unleashed, are enemies still randomly distributed loners in Firefight? I found it troublesome to hunt down a bunch of enemies and then spend 10 minutes to find the last guy. Is this an issue with the game, or something that can be fixed?

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In all game types like Firefight, vanilla Ghost Recon spawns individual NPC enemies instead of cohesive teams, meaning that regardless of the number of NPC opponents on the map, every single character gets his own individual AI plan. This means that enemies in original game types don't communicate and cooperate as teams, but rather act and react individually. The only exception is the original Defend game type, which allows team-level AI and thereby squad-based cooperation in attacking the player base.

Ghost Recon's AI works in hierarchies, starting at the highest level with a "Company AI", which basically just tells NPC the side they're fighting on and who the enemies are, so they know whether or not to attack another character they encounter. Beneath the company level, there are "Platoon AI", which allow basic communication and coordination between subordinate AI units (mainly managing alertness, awareness of player presence, location of player detection). Finally, at the bottom of the AI hierarchy are the "Team AI", each one controlling a team of up to six NPC, assigning the team's overall strategy and coordinating the actions of its individual members, allowing complex team efforts, e.g. bounding overwatch with suppressive fire in support of offensive "fire and maneuver" forward pushing or defensive "center peel" disengagement.

In case of vanilla Ghost Recon's Firefight (or any other vanilla game type, with the sole exception of Defend), each individual NPC is assigned his own "Team AI", which severely limits those impressive coordinated efforts witnessed with larger teams and results in those "loners" you described. For all game types in Heroes Unleashed (which overrides all original game types) I employ a series of workarounds to improve coordinated efforts throughout AI hierarchies, including team-level AI. At the same time, HU features random locations for both players and NPC, which in turn necessitates a couple of under-the-hood tricks e.g. to avoid starting the mission in the midst of enemy forces. Due to engine limitations, this, in turn, can occasionally still result in the odd loner standing around poking his nose, but for GRHU beta 9 it should rarely happen.

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Interesting apex. i remember the xbox versions firefight mode was usually against 2-3 squad sized forces spread out through the map. depending on maps sometimes squads would engage you simultaneously. i didn't like how the ps2/gc/pc versions had you play cat and mouse with single enemies.  

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I didn't know they changed this for the Xbox version, but it was certainly a smart move. Never understood why they didn't patch this in the original.

It's not a trivial task to fix those loner patrols in game types, and IIRC Harntrox was the first to try this to some extent with Mission HX. As IGOR does not allow assigning any kind of plan steps in GTFs, you basically have to use one of the only two available generic overarching AI strategy options ("Assault Force" for Defend, "Patrol Force" for everything else), spawn a limited number of AI characters, e.g. via "Spawn Patrol Force", and then manually spawn additional NPC onto each of the resulting one-man "teams" to have them act as a squad and benefit from common Team AI. Spawning NPC outside of those existing Assault/Patrol Force teams renders them without any AI plan whatsoever, so they'll just stand there, not moving, staring mindlessly into space (however, they will react when noticing the player / being attacked).

Luckily, once you manage to overcome the one-man team thing, the game's autonomous (no scripting required) team-level AI routines begin to kick in full force, and you'll encounter NPC teams coordinating their attacks with a tactical acumen that can be scary to witness. I simply cannot overstate my appreciation for the amazing work those AI engineers from back then did for Ghost Recon. Seeing the game's NPC react e.g. to suppressive fire with realistic center peel retreat and effectively taking cover, just to switch to leapfrogging once the situation allows, and even engage in wide flanking maneuvres with other AI teams, the mind boggles how this is even possible in such an old game, when many of the latest titles don't offer anything remotely resembling this kind of strategic AI behavior.

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