Give Me Back My Old Ghost Recon, Rejuvenated! That's All!

[CBA_Bludawg]

Ghost recon was my very first FPS. i joined JTF-3 then CBA in IGS leagues, and loved the game till it was taken away from gamespy. the matches every night i loved and miss dearly. CBA moved onto Americas army, Arma,COD (all versions) OFP all of the DR was just horrible. We are still ripping it up in arma 2 and Cod black ops. We never did like the GR games after original GR it wasnt the same and the game play was bad. If they used the engines they have already they could redo the game and OMG it would look sweet. Give the mod tools and let us run with it. A re release of Org. GR and the same maps would blow up and roll in the money for sure. Gr was the easiest game for a ladder, the replay options un real and none like it since. It ran so smoothly i recall one match 4 teams maxed out TM4 was the winner by 1 kill. no lag no crash. BRING BACK GR!!!!!!!!!

this new game looks good but the OSView is gay and they said they arent going to change it

anyways nice topic lets hope UBI and Redstorm read it.

[WytchDokta]

Here is what developer's need to do:

Step 1: Take GR and it's expansions.

Step 2: Update graphics but not so much that you need to run the latest and greatest hardware. Runnable by a 2008 machine is fine.

Step 3: Make a map editor in the style of the map editor released with StarCraft 2.

Step 4: Create a specific piece of streamlined software to act as the server, rather than having to upload the entire game.

Step 5: Put it on a disc and ship it out.

Step 6: Rake in the cash from the multiple copies I for one will be buying.

A re-release of GR, but highly updated IS possible. Croteam re-released Serious Sam First Encounter and Second Encounter with full HD support & upgraded graphics/physics etc recently. So if Croteam can do it, why can't other developers?

[ApexMods]

Stumbled upon an old Ghost Recon video on YouTube and noticed the comments. Here's the video and an excerpt - spam, trolling etc. removed - of last 12 months' comments. Sorry for the length of the post - but I believe it's necessary. Actually drew a tear from my eye. :'(

"god 2001 was a great year for games" - htornis

"This game looked pretty darn awesome when it came out. The environments still feel more realistic than even Crysis' do... with a slight exaggeration but anyway. The sounds of the woods, the rain, the raided cities. I always felt like being there more than in many other games." - Lecrie

"@Lecrie I agree with You 100 %. I love this game. A moment ago we finished Desert Siege (on Elite difficulty) with my dad and we started Island Thunder. I saw the Ghost Recon Future Soldier trailer months ago and I'm very disappointed." - deathdealer6

"My absolute favorite shooter of all time." - Lecrie

"They don't make'em like they used to." - Sursion7

"Still love original GR " - longbow1112

"hey guys. i'm in the 19th SFG. god, i wish our duties will be as good as this game." - AZMALING

"If they could only bring up the graphics only so slightly on this... I tell ya it would beat any of the newer games like MW2, COD4 hands down. The run n gun Rambo games we see these days are just no match for the gameplay of Ghost Recon. Long live Special Forces Group 5, 1st Battalion D Company! No moon, thats good. Switching to NV." - FighterAceee94

"The Best Game Ever !" - madmanxp 3

"Nothing beats a classic shooter like this." - TheRev145 4

"amazing game brings a tear to my eye when i saw this replay, what i would give for them to make a Rogue Spear 2 or New Raven Shield" - CarmineD187

"@CarmineD187 Oh yes! Wish I could get my Rogue Spear game to work on my comp. Damn, regret that I gave away my old windows 98 computer, could have played so many old games on it. H.E.D.Z, Rogue Spear, Baldies etc." - wixmef

"One of the most fun games I've ever played. Better than all the FPS garbage that has come out in recent years *cough call of duty cough*" - JointStrikeForce666

"Do u know the name of that lvl? I just found my GR games for pc in my attic! I'm installing as I speak" - 45ga76

"in my opinion, this is the best game of all time!" - WXProd

"I miss this game!" - SarkzDeluxe

"my fav game of all time... if you wanna play this on multiplayer now download xfire and search some servers... i have say, the most players on the server now are stupid ppl, noobs who don't know how to think, but the game is the same kickass game of all time…" - pastelismoreconero

"i can remember playing this game, not really the best graphics but its the most solid game ever." - mitchell6489

"This is still, for me, the greatest FPS ever made. I felt like I was ON those missions. HALO was great, but I was never THERE....if you know what I mean." - velveetaslingshot

"@velveetaslingshot yes the feeling was awesome, and this was the only war game that made me freak like ###### sometimes, you had to be very careful" - Ladadounis

"the original has something that none have duplicated, i'm not sure what it was but it was more realistic without losing enjoyability. when you were hit it severely hurt your ability to shoot back, you know like in rl lol. and man i can still play it with windows 7 64b on my wide screen." - 4plae

"yeah this lacks eye candy, but the layout of the controls and just the playability was THE best I ever knew on xbox, even over halo and halo 2. the reticle was better then any i've seen since." - 67mustangreg

"Best shooter/sim game in the ENTIRE HISTORY of FPS gaming. It's replayability, need for planning, attention to realism and detail - not to mention the importance of strategy. An absolute classic that may never be equaled or surpassed. They call themselves... the Ghosts" - veritassecreto

"I love this game! Got it for 2 bucks at a yard sale last year. I got so close to finishing first mission but I killed the guy you were supposed to capture." - robloxbboy333

"They should update the graphics and start selling it again. Yeah... it would still rock. My first PC game... good ol' days. " - Aleksandarcox

"This is the best Ghost Recon" - BlackhawKK1996

"This is the funnest FPS ever. Realistic too, not like CoD where you can run out into the open like Rambo and not die. You do this in Ghost Recon, you'll be going home in a box, you actually need to plan your approach. They should update the graphics and start selling it again." - leopard2a6mcan

"Ghost Recon 1 FOREVER!!!!!!!" - Chernish100

"instead of making these new Ghost Recon's they should just remaster this game with modern graphics and have weapon models you can see in 1st person view. now that would be a game i would buy =D" - bugabooXD

"One of the best games ever!" - BiGHaaT

"I'm still waiting for the ghillie suit to make a return in Ghost Recon. ###### took it away after GRIT and never gave it back. Years later and I'm still ###### off at them." - rtekbillabong

"i don't want this game to disappear it's my childhood game they should do a remake ###### GRAW... " - The3Cdevilsoldier

"I was a master at [GR], so brutal, so intense, so much reality, now with the invisible soldiers, hey, I don't like it." - eldhead

"why the hell they don't keep the GR 1 and get it new graphs why the hell they do that ###### of invisible ######" - The3Cdevilsoldier

"###### this ######ing Future soldier ######, i want another GR like this." - davefan16

"OMG fcking MW2 fanboys go spray in cod and don't bother us." - TheMast3rBF2

"Ghost Recon is legend! It was a perfect balance between military simulator and entertaining FPS! FPS suck these days" - DanielTejnicky

"I was still a kid when this came out and even I thought it was awesome... The newer Ghost Recons with all that techno crap are nowhere near as good as the first one. I mean who the ###### wants to play a game that points you to all your enemy's with a huge red square??? And if I want to play a movie like game I play CoD or something. They raped Rainbow Six the same way." - wistals2deniks

"Ghost Recon is dead to me now because of the new ones are just a halo rip off" - safir926

"have u heard what there doing to future warrior... shoulder mounted rocket launchers and invisibility cloaks... one word HALO" - safir926

"my first game too i've ever played... great motivations at that time.. this game is really realistic and there is also some kind of inspirational feeling hidden somewhere.. tom clancy the master and Ghost Recon is the piece " - frozenghorst

"Effing love the soundtrack! Still the best tactical shooter out there!" - kawaldo

"@williswilly100 No offense, but ask anyone who've played and loved the original Ghost Recon will tell you that they would still play this game over COD: MW2. Sure it lacks the eyecandy and a couple of billion dollars MW2 has. But it's core, replayability, realism and sheer fun it gave makes this game a legend. I still play this game from time to time. I tell you there's nothing sweeter than shooting a tango with your M24. My two cents." - kawaldo

"@kawaldo I agree. I played this so much back in the day. Kids today would hate it because there's no auto aim, no regenerating health, pretty much 1 hit and you're dead, no scripted sequences, no invisible walls, totally free roam, etc. It's everything a legit tactical military shooter is supposed to be and it was pretty challenging. Each mission could take an hour or more if you took your time." - FastRedPonyCar

"GR 1 will always be the best game ever created." - Hoogenhaven

"@kawaldo with all the re-releases going on, I'm surprised no one has re-released this game recently...such a classic online experience. One of my first and favorite regular online-multiplayer games…" - demboys18

"COD: black ops is a piece of trash compared to this gem, enough said." BenHo0003

"@kawaldo yea i still have one of the original CDs and i play the game all the time same with GR2 they will always be superior to COD6" - cleny217

"@kawaldo yea i just picked this up for $2 and its a lot of fun, i find it more fun than operation flashpoint dragon rising." - boricuaboy24

"Probably the best Ghost Recon game ever. Even better than advance warfighter." - morgrid28

"Damn, this game is a real challenge in elite mode, but, a really good game, all in all" - nitroboost8765

"the best game that i ever played - released 2001 " - djogani88

"one of the best games ever" - djogani88

"This game will always be one of the best shooters... no matter what they make nowadays with graphics/tessellation blablabla" - 074Jesse

"######en love this game !!!" - goose0139

"this game was made before tom clancy died... good thing he didn't see how much they ed it up afterwards" - marioluigi321

"@marioluigi321 wth are u saying dumb ass tom clancy is alive" - jeffdazle

"@jeffdazle: he's dead because his games have died" - marioluigi321

"You can blame Call of Duty for making Ghost Recon and Splinter Cell turn gay! They want their games to be successful like COD so they try to make the games match the buyers tastes and now look what has happened - they have ruined 2 great games just to make them like COD ###### arcade shooters. Damn Modern Warfare has ruined gaming sooo much!" - borofalcon101

"This remains the best Ghost Recon to me" - jgand72

"I love this game & its soundtrack!!" - grotewaard234

"how did the ghost recon series stray so far from this?" - FiveEcho

"Now they announced some ###### GR whit nano-suits. Im sorry but what is more badass? to be invisible by nano-suit or to be invisible by your bad-ass skills? I mean ######?! Ghost Recon was all about realism and tactics and since Ghost Recon 2 they made it a ###### pickup-and-play Call of Duty style game... repent, the end is near. Because companies now care about one thing... profit. I miss times when games were made out of passion rather than for money." - Frix87

"I agree. What ever happened to the clever, innovative and creative games of the past? Game developers seem to have a really hard time making good games nowadays. The gaming industry is becoming eerily similar to hollywood, spewing out their dumbed down, simplified action games on every gaming platform. The only thing that's improved is the graphics." - CaptEm1

"@Frix87 I hear that, from what I've read, the new Ghost isn't going to be a Ghost game at all" - thepoozer

"Amen man, this game may be dated but it still blows most of today's games out of the water completely. Most realistic game i've ever played. Shame about the sequels." - shoplifting1is1fun

"@Frix87 SOOOO true...GR 1 was a real simulation of war even my dad said that who was in one war fighting for my country....he loved this game,and when I bought GR 2 i was like ######??? am I playing Crash Bandicoot or GR? I mean...GR 1 was all about tactics, stealth and skill and this new ###### is just absurd" - CrazyDictator23

"@CrazyDictator23 same thing with rainbow 6, the 1st few of those games were all strategy and tactics and after raven shield they just gave way to that straight-forward action fps crap, that was a gem in the series the fact you could scale a map and plan out a mission before starting it, that's what separated the 1st few games of the Ghost Recon and rainbow 6 series from the latest" - MonkeyShotIntoSpace

"So true. I wish they wouldn't have ######ed the game up and turned it into another stupid blaster game." - UBERGRIMKVLT

"@UBERGRIMKVLT I agree with you.. BTW I'm still playing it and I never feel bored." - OldPersonal

"this game is so old and sooo good. Modern Warfare 2 can just suck this intros dick." games4zak

"the best.." - POUTANA2

"this game deserves a remake" - RIEKSONE

"I know, it would be awesome. Ubisoft could make a milsim that kicks Dragon Rising's pathetic ass." - 338dmac

"That and show the kids who swear by Modern Warfare 2 what a REAL military game is!" - RSprtn117

"######, i had so much fun playing that game. good times" - fukinzeppelinman

"Oh, I agree so much! I miss this game, it was my first tactical game " - 70ucH

"best tactical shooter ever made" - stokes91

"###### ###### ###### ###### we're never gonna see games like this - only stupid console games *sigh*" - Leopardipzg

"They call themselves… the Ghosts" - CaptScottMitchell

"they just don't make games like they used to" - Tracerex

"this game is eerily similar to the georgia-russia conflict last year its like red storm used a time machine to travel to the future and stole the idea for the story from real life. oh well, that's what u get when u base a video game on a hypothetical realistic setting. i'm pretty sure r6 vegas or hawx wont come true after ubisoft raped the realistic tactical depth." - Tracerex

"best tactical shooter game eva!!! bought it at car boot last week got it 4 50 p with the 2 mission packs and it works!!! A BLOODY GD BARGAIN!!!" - TheMaximo08

"nothing can beat Ghost Recon." - trompetenchief

"This is the Original Ghost Recon. There were many video gaming teams that formed around this game and fought online endlessly for years. As old as it is there are still teams that mod for this game and play regularly. I'm one of the old school players and our team is still around although we play a lot of different games these days. Ghost Recon 2 is nothing like the original." - TeknoKommando

"It's still out there and you can get it with both expansion for about 10 bucks. If you know the right folks you can play every night, they still have matches, mod maps, create new mods etc. The old guys are still doing this game and they are really really freaking good. My team formed around this game and we also still play and its just as cool as it ever was especially when you allow no respawns and everyone is trying their best to make it to the end of the game." - TeknoKommando

"man, this was the best when i was a kid, SO MANY levels and you could do so much free roaming on it and do what you wanted the way you wanted on the level, its was just so fun" - andyfma

"we need this back. graw isn't really a favorite of mine.. this game rocked" - codeman127

"I really miss this game too.. First true shooter game if you ask me!!" - aliyum

"Just bought it again for 21p off Amazon, getting my xbox out - can't ######ing wait" - dynamicz108

"damn i miss this game. this game was the best army game back when xbox was around. i still have it but no xbox. damn best game." - Tagger12496

"I miss this!" - RussianCivilian

"this deserves a remake" - chocolateskater101

"good game!" - reddeadfinland

"omg… r u talking ###### about Ghost Recon? damn u to hell!!! THIS IS A GAME CREATED BY GOD AND SENT TO EARTH BY ANGELS" - 1pwNz0mb13Z

"@ 1pwNz0mb13Z: Actually, I made a mistake. I posted my message under the wrong game. It should have been regarding Ghost Recon Retarded Warfighter." - betterthanyou2007

"they should make a remake of the original Ghost Recon, online would be kick ass if they did" - 1pwNz0mb13Z

"Even nowadays i have not played a single shooting game that surpasses GR. If they remake this game exactly the same with better AI, better damage system, higher quality graphics (optional), add jumping, make the level more accessible, then it would reign supreme as the best FPS ever." - fleshtheworld

"badass game, while the new ones are still fun to play, I want the old kind of Ghost Recon back." - senorcaradeperro

"the best game" - elsanjuanero13

"This opening cut scene is what made me get this game. One of the best games i've played on ps2" - kazzdude1

"I have played this game longer than i remember, always with difficulty recruit. Yesterday i tested difficulty elite... It killed my players, but I made it, this is a very realistic game and the best ever." - larpsa95

"one of the best games ever" - BurnumBurnum123

"Yes, 8 fully controllable individuals divided into teams with designated leaders that could gain experience skill levels, medals and your soldiers could die and never come back. Just pure awesomeness. I hope GR4 will be like the original, only with updated graphics, AI and a new gripping storyline. Man that would be sick." - CaptEm1

"totally agree. i still play the original lol. and yeah i hope tom clancy games get back to being realistic again" - BurnumBurnum123

"this is one of the best online team games ever made…." - SM211

"yeah, online play was awesome." - CaptEm1

"this one one HELL OF A GAME. its so ######ing realistic. this game is SOOOO TIGHT u actually get sorta scared when u get shot @ i mean damn" - thesoviet899

"Dude for its time, the graphics were INSANE. NOTHING compared to Ghost Recon. This game came out in 01 FYI" - mahnameiswin

"this is the best game of the world!" - Sknae123

"best Ghost Recon ever! my most favorite character is from this game! jack stone just as my nick name! he is the only one using a bank robber mask! " - jackstone112

"one of the best shooters ever... such a classic" - abraves119

"It's a great game. I have to install this again..." - Snookie1988

"this game is awesome! it's my total favorite!" - lollypop553

"I really wish the newer games still had the 'wounded' logic.. and '1 shot 1 kill' also.. its stupid that you have to shoot sum1 50 times to kill them.. and regenerating life? come on.." - russellreal

"why don't they make video games like this anymore? this was on the greatest FPS/Strat games i've ever played and i've played me a lot of god damn games." - Tex259

"all the new Ghost Recon n rainbow 6 games suck now. they're nothing like how they used to be." - Katsuya89

"this game was ahead of its time in many ways. to me the best game ever made.. too bad gameplay went south with next versions." - dario1982kt

"God damn its been so long since i've played this game, i remember when it first came out, had some good times." - socal3d

"i'm joining Ghost Recon" - ShadowLugia555

"this game is the best in the series. the atmosphere is so moody. much better than graw's" - thegreatman99

"the best game" - qeti777

"This is the ONLY game where i've watched the intro video EVERY time before playing. It's just that good." - NxJNightHawk

"i loved Ghost Recon! so stealthy and u have to think" - ithascometome1

"this game is a true original" - zingyzangyman

[Smike]

^^^ These Posts sum up all my feelings, thanks for posting it ^^^

Damn that's powerful!

I am in....infact I've created an online petition using your words

Sign away!

Online Petition : Give Me Back My Old Ghost Recon, Rejuvenated! That's All!

Dav

Signed.

Ghost Recon 1 to this day is by far my favorite Video Game of all time. I have so many good memories of playing Multiplayer on GameRanger. Unfortunately numbers have died down, and only a few still play on the Mac platform.

It would be awesome to see a rejuvenated version of awesomeness.

Edited January 23, 2011 by Smike

[Operative]

I think everybody that played the original Ghost Recon want it back.

You know, like when you are walking by the woods or the ruined buildings and you don't expect a enemy there, and then BOOM!, that spetsnaz guy had an AK101 with an GP30 under the barrel, and look, he blew you and all your team with it just because you thought you could advance without cover ^^

Some times, the enemy really scares me in Ghost Recon

The AI, also, knows how to supress you

At that mission of the bridge you need to blow, you can make kills at 300~350m, even destroy the tanks from the insertion zone, but if you do that, the enemies start advancing, they supress you from far, they seek cover. You can, of course, make it, as you can also move stealthly. It's all up to you!

I managed to past the first mission without letting the enemy notice me, only killing who needs to be killed (the camp troops and the guards in the cave).

It was awesome. You expect the enemy to spot you everytime and, better, you fear it, as it could end the mission.

[=warcloud=]

the game would have been better with weapons view and more realistic.

would have been even more realistic with bullet drop..and better as a result.

without these things nowadays i would say that GR would be a fail.

Each to their own i suppose, but this is part of what made Ghost Recon unique imho.

[Tinker]

Agree. Some games have the option to turn off weapon view, that is always my choice. After firing weapons in RL, you do not see it, you see the surroundings. An original and basic good concept. Do you see your boots when you look down?

[Lightspeed]

you see the gun

and

you see your points

and you get bullet drop

you just need to take the rose coloured glasses off that's all, and then it will become clearer to you

[WytchDokta]

Agree. Some games have the option to turn off weapon view, that is always my choice. After firing weapons in RL, you do not see it, you see the surroundings.

Everyone wants to see their custom shotgun with a sniper scope, laser sight, chainsaw bayonet and pink DPM camo paintjob on it while playing - made with the interactive game weapon customisation system.

Edited February 17, 2011 by WytchDokta

[Tinker]

Well good point WD. We are talking about playing games, a form of entertainment. I suppose most have enough of realism in RL, and just want to play games and have fun.

[WytchDokta]

And of course, if you're running around with a pink camo weapon in a jungle environment, it kind of stands out you know - makes it a lot easier for me to find you.

[Zeealex]

wytch has a point...

[Tinker]

Not if you only play SP/Coop.

[Zeealex]

true, but still, he has a point

[ApexMods]

Optional weapon view would be the best of both worlds and shouldn't be too hard to implement. I have to admit that I sometimes miss it e.g. immediately after going from playing Raven Shield to Ghost Recon, but a couple of minutes into the game I don't mind the lack of weapon view any more.

I wish Ubi would just do the right thing for once and release the source code of Ghost Recon (and Raven Shield for that matter) to public domain. If they are no longer interested in the hardcore tac shooter market at all - as they keep pointing out time and time again - they might as well throw us 'few' holdouts a bone here. Chances for that to happen are slim to say the least, though. They even shut down the Raven Shield 2.0 mod with a cease & desist letter.

[Zeealex]

hmmm, i wonder what would happen if i got curious.... nah just kidding, i dont know where to look on this thing.

[ApexMods]

Please, by all means get curious!

[Zeealex]

where is the engine kept?

[ApexMods]

It should be around here - but it's probably around there.

[Zeealex]

i swear it's on the disc

[APEX]

old GR rejuvenated? doh! please dont use these words together again, the pacemaker went into over drive 8-) .....got a bit excited there thought UBI had wised up

seems not duh! oh well back to the dark room someone wake me up when its done please.

[ApexMods]

Well... Ubi keeps postponing the release date again and again and there is a total news blackout on Fubar Soldiers. Maybe they just scrapped the whole thing and went back to the drawing boards after everyone and their uncle displayed their dismay over the lackluster sci-fi soldier setup? I mean they would have to be completely blind and deaf not to notice the outcry of disgusted GR fans everywhere - even the wastelands are filling up with angry posts.

Hope dies last as they say, but I'm not holding my breath on this one.

[wildbill]

Hi I am one of those OGR PC players, and I just wanted to say how I enjoy playing GRAW 2 Multiplayer. I think they did a great job with this. I was shocked to hear Future soldier is going to third person view, and a console port. That is to me a one eighty from the basics of what one would like to see in a new title of Ghost Recon. Bill.

[101459]

On the one hand, I agree with what's said in this thread; on the other, after what happened with Ghost Recon 2 that while it may not have been 'the one and true spiritual successor' to Ghost Recon -- had Fan ire not been so piqued we might have had a decent PC game more like Ghost Recon then anything that's come since, handsome art assets, and a very nice iteration of the RSE engine we could have modded, ported OGR assets to, and perhaps seen more continuity to what's really valued here.

But, as anyone that owns Crysis 2 can appreciate, or that studies modern Military Science knows; the aim for the modern battlefield is to obviate the effects of skill, fallibility and human factors to all extents possible, and that the sort of things GR:FS portends are the antithesis of tactical depth and skill based gaming which are tenants of what made Ghost Recon such a lion of game design.

That said, I am conflicted, as I suspect anything with any Ghost Recon influence, how ever trivial, even just an occasional side ways glance at the *cough* 'brand genealogy' will offer more tactical sophistication and depth of play then the paultry alternatives, which are fewer and further between with each passing year. What's more, it seems very unlikely that Ubisoft will ever move more in the direction of Ghost Recon -- and that the only practical alternative they see is abandoning development of a particular project for PC...

Edited June 5, 2011 by 101459

[Operative]

The Tactical Games emerged for the PC in late 1990s/early 2000s because the use of mouse+keyboard allowed better control, so instant deaths would not be such an issue, as you could simply kill the enemy first having total control of your movements.

But, as console gaming renewed itself, making console games became more profitable, and so PC games started to look (or worse, be) direct ports from the original, console games.

Well, now the console games are somewhat overpriced, and so I can't see a new batch of Tactical games for the PC.

The proof of what I'm saying is the pure existance of Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six, 1998 (plus the expansion pack Eagle Watch, 1999); Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six: Rogue Spear, 1999 (plus the expansion pack Urban Operations, 2000, and the stand-alones Covert Operations Essentials, 2000 and Black Thorn, 2001), SWAT 3: Close Quarters Battle, 1999 (plus the free expansion packs Elite Edition and Tactical Game of the Year Edition - TGOTY) and the late Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon, 2001 (plus the expansion packs Desert Siege, 2002, and Island Thunder, 2003).

After these titles, the series continued in the form of far less acclaimed games. Albeit some of those being above the average, they were not groundbreakers, innovative games.

Probably the last remaining true tactical FPS realism game is of the ongoing BIS OFP/ARMA series, started with Operation Flashpoint: Cold War Crisis, 2001 (plus the BIS expansion pack Resistance), that is still played and highly acclaimed, the series are somewhat less acessible to the casual player, so the community is regarded as formed mostly of true fans, die-hard players.

Edited June 6, 2011 by Operative