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Ubisoft Not Planning On Quick Buck Sequels.


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Apex I didn’t assume I just wanted to ensure on response that we were talking about the same thing not only for our benefit but the reader :)

CR6 thanks; I understand where you were coming from far better now. The follow on expansions started at GRIT and I imagine most here would agree wasn’t a problem. Ultimately I think the community would probably agree releasing 2 games in close succession as they did then isn’t a problem IF the first of the 2 titles is what they want i.e. the core of the game then to be expanded upon is in place

WK contrary to your previous comments on Ubisoft you are again bringing the conversation back to your own personal agenda. Doing so benefits no one; if anything it lessens the value of the feedback by derailing the conversation not to mention those not reading your posts on Ubisoft won’t have a clue what your above comment refers to.

As CR6 said above being negative just to be negative is generally useless.

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I am not being negative for negatives sake but my experience of games from Ubi (GRAW onwards) is that none of there games have worked well enough out of the box and patches have been poor.

I made the mistake of getting Farcry 2, in parts a brilliant game (I enjoyed the SP and the map editor is fantastic) but it's latest patch didn't even address the lack of admin tools.

I am not sure I'm going to part with money for a first in series let alone a sequel, and for what anyone from Ubi says as 'planning to do or not' actions speak louder than words.

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I finally got around to updating the Splinter Cell Retreat site today (first time this year as there was basically only 2 worthwhile bits of news for the whole year) and I noticed this old post:

http://splintercell.3dretreat.com/default.asp#6444

Here's the quote directly from IGN - perhaps Ubi actually listened?

http://insider.ign.com/articles/796/796220p4.html

Nowadays though, people are buying fewer and fewer of Sam Fisher's adventures each time out. With Ubisoft juggling the game between their Montreal and Shanghai studios, it's no wonder that the series has lost any form of continuity. Not so much in the story, but in the actual gameplay mechanics.

Doctor's Orders: Stop releasing Splinter Cell games every year. This should not be on a yearly release cycle; it's too good of a franchise to rush it out the door. While it is true that tossing the game back and forth between two studios gives each more time to work on their game, the feel of the game changes too much between each iteration.

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Ultimately I think the community would probably agree releasing 2 games in close succession as they did then isn’t a problem IF the first of the 2 titles is what they want i.e. the core of the game then to be expanded upon is in place.

This is exactly what has happened with the GR and R6 series and when GRAW2 and Vegas2 didn't fix what was messed up in the first games, it made more people even madder at Ubi. Not mention, both franchises are far beyond what made them great to begin with which has been a disappointment to plenty. As I said before if they had been priced at $20 instead of $40, I believe more people could have swallowed V2 and GRAW2 in the shape they were.

More peolple are becoming like Custard as quoted below.

I am not being negative for negatives sake but my experience of games from Ubi (GRAW onwards) is that none of there games have worked well enough out of the box and patches have been poor.

I am not sure I'm going to part with money for a first in series let alone a sequel, and for what anyone from Ubi says as 'planning to do or not' actions speak louder than words.

Maybe I do take it a bit personal as Ubi did take and completely mess up some of the few games I like to play. Still, as one can see, I am not the only one who finds that Ubi has problems in many areas. What makes it worse is what employees say, after the fact. I am sorry that you can't see it, but fans of Ubi's games can.

I am not negative to be negative. I am negative due to Ubi messing up and not admitting that they have problems on several fronts. From unfinished games to unseen patches to lack of communications to shoving expansion packs on gamers that were called sequels, Ubi has been contradictory and it ticks me off along with others. Having Ubi start treating long time customers as customers should be treated is the only agenda I have. In that respect, Ubi has failed and miserably.

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I would accept your comments here Wk is they were entirely accurate. I didn’t say you take things personally, I said you make them personal; you do and have gone out of your way to try and undermine others, you intentionally target others to undermine to boost your own argument/ point.

The sad thing is that in doing so you only succeed in undermining your own argument by detracting from the point at hand, which I might add is on many occasions very valid.

However thats not what this thread is about so I'll leave it there

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Kleaneasy, can you fairly say GRAW1/2 PC were not as successful as ubisoft would have liked? You guys got nowhere near the criticial acclaim of the GOTY GR or its expansions (despite a laughably equal 80 metacritic score on both titles)

You guys honestly delivered a subpar product to the PC gamers, be it Grin, Ubi, or some breakdown inbetween at fault.

And vegas, despite Vegas 2 snagging some GOTY nominations in a few places and both games doing critically and financially very well on consoles was a sloppy, poorly optimized port.

We all know ubi's games are selling well and a significant majority seems to enjoy them, but do you really think you did the best that ubisoft possibly could for the pc gaming market this last couple years? Or are you working to try and improve quality in that sector?

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I would accept your comments here Wk is they were entirely accurate. I didn�€™t say you take things personally, I said you make them personal; you do and have gone out of your way to try and undermine others, you intentionally target others to undermine to boost your own argument/ point.

The sad thing is that in doing so you only succeed in undermining your own argument by detracting from the point at hand, which I might add is on many occasions very valid.

However thats not what this thread is about so I'll leave it there

I am kinda new in this forum but Kleaneasy this post is very like something my local council puts through my letterbox and it's politcal gobdeldook that actually says nothing. I have been a customer of UBI for a few years and I do not believe what the salesmen that work for UBI are saying anymore UBI will eventually have to address this or there will not be a UBI anymore. :wall:

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I would accept your comments here Wk is they were entirely accurate. I didn�€™t say you take things personally, I said you make them personal; you do and have gone out of your way to try and undermine others, you intentionally target others to undermine to boost your own argument/ point.

The sad thing is that in doing so you only succeed in undermining your own argument by detracting from the point at hand, which I might add is on many occasions very valid.

However thats not what this thread is about so I'll leave it there

I am kinda new in this forum but Kleaneasy this post is very like something my local council puts through my letterbox and it's politcal gobdeldook that actually says nothing. I have been a customer of UBI for a few years and I do not believe what the salesmen that work for UBI are saying anymore UBI will eventually have to address this or there will not be a UBI anymore. :wall:

I have to respectfully disagree with you there, if someone has a valid point to make yet in voicing that point only insult others do you hear the point they were making or their insults??

Of course you can view my post whatever way you like but I'm not interested in selling games, its not my job.

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Maybe I'm missing the point but isn’t that a contradiction in terms??

Surely if they're prepared to churn out games so easily they wouldn’t hold a game back from release to do more work on it??

I'm just thinking here that for some strange reason, UBI just does not know how to get this GR sequel out of house. Whether it be managment pulling this game in different directions trying to make this a console kid game to make mega bucks or RSI isn't around to and given sole direction and works to pull off another GR with and extensive upgrade for us. Obviously the greed factor has taken control over this game. The short end of the stick is what we got. With lots of wishful thinking along the way. By them giving this game over to GRIN says it all. I would almost like to see GRIN have another shot at it scince they put GRAW 2 out, I really think they are on the right track as far as multiplayer TDM and seige I like to play. I am thinking give them a go with the Ghost back in Georgia, i would put my bucks there. Respectfully Bill.

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Just a little reminder, people: At this point in time, kleaneasy is the only person wearing Ubi's colors who makes an effort in showing up here and facing all this criticism. In my book it takes a lot of courage to do what she does, and the girl is nowhere near responsible for any of the things that are being criticized here. We should all appreciate her efforts and continue to communicate in a civilized manner. Even if you hold a valid grudge against Ubi, let's keep the tarring and feathering of innocent bystanders at bay, please.

:flowers:

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Just a little reminder, people: At this point in time, kleaneasy is the only person wearing Ubi's colors who makes an effort in showing up here and facing all this criticism. In my book it takes a lot of courage to do what she does

+1

Anyhew, as I'm quite sure the next GR will be another linear action slugfest - and probably the PC version will be a simple port (I have yet to see any indication to the contrary), the next-GR-catfight is largely a moot point from where I'm looking.

Respectfully

krise madsen

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I won't buy another Ubi product until the Ghost Recon series becomes ... Ghost Recon again. Enough of this GRAW garbage. The Crosscom is just a stupid gimick to get people to ooh and aaah. Apparently, Ubisoft hope that if they put enough explosions, blinking lights, sepia filters, and auto-target enemies for you, that maybe you won't notice how poor their games actually have become. The entire franchise was dumbed down, both in terms of gameplay and design, to facilitate consoles. If I want a console game, I'll go play Wii Sports. This is what UbiSoft execs just don't understand: PC gamers want PC games. Not console game ports. The best thing that UbiSoft could do for Ghost Recon, is give it back to RSE, and just stay the heck out of the way.

Ubi uses "poor PC sales" as a justification for not producing as many PC games. No one at Ubi though (apologies, kleaneasy) seems to understand the correlation between horrible games, and horrible sales. Make a horrible game, and it will sell horribly. Imagine that.

Bottom line: When Ubisoft starts making games for adults again, then maybe adults will start paying for their games. Until then, UbiSoft can go bankrupt for all I care. The games suck. Period. If UbiSoft made decent PC games, then PC gamers would buy them. Until then, Ubi can continue to make flashy games for teeny-boppers.

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Alittle far afield but...why isn't this (or similar) conversation(s) taking place here? Is it because critical questions and/or corporate introspection are frowned upon in the home waters? Or could that answer be because there is an almost complete lack of manager/moderator participation (to go along with an almost complete unfamiliarity of the PC version of the series) in the Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter PC section.

But then what would be the point? Long ongoing and relevant topics/polls are unpinned there and replaced (without being merged) for some unknown reason with a newer, shinier, happier version resulting in the original being lost amongst the clutter of misdirected posts in the back pages of an unmanaged forum- almost as if those suggestions/responses were not the ones sought and so they were surreptitiously buried- in the company interest and direction- out with the old in with the new.

Also, considering this topics broad brush why is it not here.

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Also, considering this topics broad brush why is it not here.

Because I'm in charge and I can start a post wherever I like :thumbsup:

Seriously though, I placed it here in the GR4 forum because as I said...

Hopefully this will quell any fears folks had about a barrage off quick release GR titles after GR4.

Comparisons with the official Ubi forum is a whole other discussion though, and usually one I end up shutting down because it goes south fast.

Im 95% sure that GR4 will not be linear. In fact I'm confident that the game will be very much open and replayability will feature heavily.

Agreed.

The best thing that UbiSoft could do for Ghost Recon, is give it back to RSE, ...

As far as we know, that is exactly what they have done, now we need to do our part and make sure there is constructive postings so that there can be no reason for the dev team to say further down the line "we had no idea this is what they wanted".

They read these forums, it's our chance to make sure what they read is of value and not nonsense. That's why I started the series of "wish list" posts in the GR4 forum (which I need to revisit and tidy up now).

Along with a small band of old timers I'm getting fairly optimistic about GR4, and I'm asking all the regs here to try and set aside their past (justifiable) distaste for all things Ubi-fied, and try and think positively :thumbsup:

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Maybe I'm missing the point but isn’t that a contradiction in terms??

Surely if they're prepared to churn out games so easily they wouldn’t hold a game back from release to do more work on it??

I would accept your comments here Wk is they were entirely accurate. I didn�€™t say you take things personally, I said you make them personal; you do and have gone out of your way to try and undermine others, you intentionally target others to undermine to boost your own argument/ point.

The sad thing is that in doing so you only succeed in undermining your own argument by detracting from the point at hand, which I might add is on many occasions very valid.

However thats not what this thread is about so I'll leave it there

The whole point of this thread is about Ubi not releasing sequels for the quick buck even though Ubi has.

Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell (XBOX) Release Date: Nov 17, 2002

Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell Pandora Tomorrow (XBOX) Release Date: Mar 23, 2004

Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell Chaos Theory (XBOX) Release Date: Mar 28, 2005

Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell Double Agent (X360) Release Date: Oct 17, 2006

Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell Double Agent (XBOX) Release Date: Oct 24, 2006

Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six 3 (XBOX) Release Date: Nov 12, 2003

Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six: Lockdown (XBOX) Release Date: Sep 6, 2005

Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six Vegas (X360) Release Date: Nov 20, 2006

Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six Vegas 2 (X360) Release Date: Mar 18, 2008

Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon (XBOX) Release Date: Nov 11, 2002

Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon 2 (XBOX) Nov 16, 2004

Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter (X360) Release Date: Mar 9, 2006

Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter 2 (X360) Release Date: Mar 6, 2007

The longest period of time between sequels (not expansion packs or compilations such as Critical Hour which was previously released material) is 2 years and that is between GR and GR 2. Everything else is 1 y 4 m to a year. The second longest is 1 year and 7 months between R6:3 and Lockdown. I just used the XBox/X360 as examples, the PC versions have very similar times.

Now if that isn't churning out sequels for the quick buck, then I do not know what is. This is the very reason why I asked UbiRazz why Conviction is getting more time compared to what has happened. This is also why I question Laurent Detoc's interview. This is why many see Ubi as a contradiction of terms. I am sorry if Ubi personnel can't see this, but this is what is being said against what has been transpiring (actions by Ubi). If Mr. Detoc had said that Ubi will no longer be releasing games based on the above timelines in the future, I would be skeptical, but I would not have been as harsh. Once Ubi actually did carry it out, then I would again, give them their due, but until said things happen, as I said previously, I will believe it when I see it. Until then, Mr. Detoc is trying to blow smoke.

Alittle far afield but...why isn't this (or similar) conversation(s) taking place here? Is it because critical questions and/or corporate introspection are frowned upon in the home waters? Or could that answer be because there is an almost complete lack of manager/moderator participation (to go along with an almost complete unfamiliarity of the PC version of the series) in the Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter PC section.

But then what would be the point? Long ongoing and relevant topics/polls are unpinned there and replaced (without being merged) for some unknown reason with a newer, shinier, happier version resulting in the original being lost amongst the clutter of misdirected posts in the back pages of an unmanaged forum- almost as if those suggestions/responses were not the ones sought and so they were surreptitiously buried- in the company interest and direction- out with the old in with the new.

Also, considering this topics broad brush why is it not here.

You answered much of your question yourself mate. Also, given the fact that the GR and GRAW forums for PC on Ubi are for all intents and purposes dead comapred to here, it is fitting that such is discussed here.

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Also, considering this topics broad brush why is it not here.

Because I'm in charge and I can start a post wherever I like :thumbsup:

Seriously though, I placed it here in the GR4 forum because as I said...

Hopefully this will quell any fears folks had about a barrage off quick release GR titles after GR4.

Comparisons with the official Ubi forum is a whole other discussion though, and usually one I end up shutting down because it goes south fast.

Im 95% sure that GR4 will not be linear. In fact I'm confident that the game will be very much open and replayability will feature heavily.

Agreed.

The best thing that UbiSoft could do for Ghost Recon, is give it back to RSE, ...

As far as we know, that is exactly what they have done, now we need to do our part and make sure there is constructive postings so that there can be no reason for the dev team to say further down the line "we had no idea this is what they wanted".

They read these forums, it's our chance to make sure what they read is of value and not nonsense. That's why I started the series of "wish list" posts in the GR4 forum (which I need to revisit and tidy up now).

Along with a small band of old timers I'm getting fairly optimistic about GR4, and I'm asking all the regs here to try and set aside their past (justifiable) distaste for all things Ubi-fied, and try and think positively :thumbsup:

Fair enough, Al. You have a good point. At this stage though, I'm not sure that the higher-ups at UbiSoft are capable of keeping their word, much less overseeing the production of a quality game anymore. I'd like to be proven wrong. I would. When was the last time that Ubi made a great FPS though? It seems to me that the honest answer is "Never".

Ubi's problems are bigger than simply churning out titles too quickly. Ubi's problem stems from the company's collective lack of vision, and more than that, a fundamental failure to understand what we, as PC gamers, want. From the very beginning, we PC gamers have, by and large, hated UbiSoft's vision for the Ghost Recon series. One need only look right here at our own Ghost Recon 2 forums to see that. Ghost Recon players provided massive amounts of feedback through the development of Ghost Recon 2. The fact that most of it was negative isn't the fault of players. Rather, that negative feedback should have been an indicator to obviously inept developers that their product wasn't acceptable. As a community, we've been providing consistent feedback for years. Ubi has literally thousands and thousands of posts providing ideas, insight, feedback, criticism, begging, pleading, and complaining. The company has yet to listen. I can't honestly believe that they'll suddenly start now.

It's been how many years now since Ubi bought out Red Storm and the Tom Clancy series? In all that time, how many good Ghost Recon, and Rainbow Six games have they released? Zilch. Zero. Nada. Are we to believe that now, suddenly, someone at UbiSoft suddenly has a clue?

What can Ubi do to sway PC gamers like myself, WK, and others? Well... the honest answer is "Start listening." It's that simple. Ubi had that chance out of the gate with Ghost Recon 2. Instead of listening to us though, what did they do? Ubi decided that it was easier to simply not publish GR2 for the PC. The company alienated the PC fanbase right then and there. Ubi needs to stop making promises, and stop telling us "We plan this" or "We plan that". They need to simply hush, listen, and do. If they do that, then the sales will come. If not, then Ubi will continue to be hated, and justifiably so.

Let's contrast UbiSoft with Bohemia Interactive. The developers from BIS are active on their forums all the time. They've involved with their community. When BIS came out with the sequel to Operation Flashpoint, they kept the elements that had made the game so successful, and improved upon them. That is what Ghost Recon players wanted. Keep the elements that made Ghost Recon what they were. Build upon them. Improve them.

Instead though, UbiSoft just went off on a tangent. The people at Ubi soft have had the nerve to act surprised, or worse, blame the lack of sales of their products on a dwindling PC market. My friends, simply allotting more time for development between games will not improve titles that are flawed from the concept on! If Ubi makes a product that's outstanding, and that is true to Ghost Recon's roots, then I'll buy it. I don't care if it's six months or two years between titles. If the concept for the game is flawed, then it won't matter how often Ubi releases titles. They'll all suck. That is the fundamental failure on Ubi's part.

Edited by Parabellum
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WK producing a game on the same engine/with the same AI code/reused art assets has a significantly shortened development cycle. Vegas2/graw2/sc:PT had MORE time for gameplay refinement than the longer first titles, despite the shorter dev cycle.

And all got reviewed better than the previous games. Criticize their quality, but don't bring out strawman arguments about release schedules, too many factors are at play to just say the games were rushed out of the door.

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I won't buy another Ubi product until the Ghost Recon series becomes ... Ghost Recon again. Enough of this GRAW garbage. [...] The entire franchise was dumbed down, both in terms of gameplay and design, to facilitate consoles. If I want a console game, I'll go play Wii Sports. [...] No one at Ubi though (apologies, kleaneasy) seems to understand the correlation between horrible games, and horrible sales. Make a horrible game, and it will sell horribly. Imagine that. [...]

[...] Bottom line: When Ubisoft starts making games for adults again, then maybe adults will start paying for their games. Until then, UbiSoft can go bankrupt for all I care. The games suck. Period. If UbiSoft made decent PC games, then PC gamers would buy them.

I am sorry if this offends anyone, but I have to agree one hundred percent! Eloquently put, Parabellum! :thumbsup:

[...] now we need to do our part and make sure there is constructive postings so that there can be no reason for the dev team to say further down the line "we had no idea this is what they wanted".

They read these forums, it's our chance to make sure what they read is of value and not nonsense. That's why I started the series of "wish list" posts in the GR4 forum (which I need to revisit and tidy up now).

Along with a small band of old timers I'm getting fairly optimistic about GR4, and I'm asking all the regs here to try and set aside their past (justifiable) distaste for all things Ubi-fied, and try and think positively

True, Rocky - but after years and years of total neglect, isn't it time for UbiSoft to officially reach out to us, for a change?

[...] Ghost Recon players provided massive amounts of feedback through the development of Ghost Recon 2. The fact that most of it was negative isn't the fault of players. Rather, that negative feedback should have been an indicator to obviously inept developers that their product wasn't acceptable. As a community, we've been providing consistent feedback for years. Ubi has literally thousands and thousands of posts providing ideas, insight, feedback, criticism, begging, pleading, and complaining. The company has yet to listen. [...]

[...] "Start listening." It's that simple. Ubi had that chance out of the gate with Ghost Recon 2. Instead of listening to us though, what did they do? Ubi decided that it was easier to simply not publish GR2 for the PC. The company alienated the PC fanbase right then and there. Ubi needs to stop making promises, and stop telling us "We plan this" or "We plan that". They need to simply hush, listen, and do. If they do that, then the sales will come. If not, then Ubi will continue to be hated, and justifiably so. [...]

[...] The people at Ubi soft have had the nerve to act surprised, or worse, blame the lack of sales of their products on a dwindling PC market. My friends, simply allotting more time for development between games will not improve titles that are flawed from the concept on! If Ubi makes a product that's outstanding, and that is true to Ghost Recon's roots, then I'll buy it. I don't care if it's six months or two years between titles. If the concept for the game is flawed, then it won't matter how often Ubi releases titles. They'll all suck. That is the fundamental failure on Ubi's part.

Again, I have to agree with Parabellum, and I want to point out that the harsh criticism towards Ubisoft's past found in these forums is nearly always accompanied by a common statement for the future: If they finally start to listen and bring back Ghost Recon we will let bygones be bygones and buy their games again.

Earlier in this thread I tried to defend kleaneasy for her courage to speak up here, amidst all the victims of Ubisoft's abandonment, but it is equally important to acknowledge the patience of Ghost Recon fans to even communicate with UbiSoft, anymore - especially since communication seems to have evolved into a one-way street.

Previously, I have expressed my optimism towards Ubi's future agenda in view of several of their recent decisions, but I also want to articulate my distaste for their arrogant behavior towards a fan base that is trying absolutely everything within its power to help the company.

Parabellum said "They need to simply hush, listen, and do." and that is the one thing I disagree with him on. Yes, UbiSoft needs to listen very closely - but I think now would be the time for them to make that trip down from the ivory tower and show their face. Come into these forums and say "We are listening! Everything will be alright!" - and better mean it this time!

Because even the most devoted patience comes to an end some day. And now look at the combined energy of all the people in here, all still trying to believe, to hope - if this energy is finally forced to flip from clinging hope to total despair, from remaining sympathy to growing hostility, there would be no "image campaign" powerful enough to save UbiSoft from total contempt among its former supporters, and that has been the irreversible death sentence for other empires in history.

For my part, I will stay optimistic to the end - and it is UbiSoft's call when that end will be reached. I would consider another (GR)AWful game from them as a declaration of war, and I am a Ghost Recon player - I know how to fight! ;)

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Just a little reminder, people: At this point in time, kleaneasy is the only person wearing Ubi's colors who makes an effort in showing up here and facing all this criticism.

Sorry to go a bit OT here, but did kleaneasy do a Kimi and get hired by Ubisoft? If so congratulations!!! :thumbsup: When did you join up?

And yes, I truly admire and appreciate kleaneasy for being active on these forums speaking for Ubi. It's not an easy job and I'm sure she's not getting paid enough for it :yes:

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Klean has been a Ubi employee for about 13 months now. As a Forum Manager, she is the interface between Ubi and the forums, once the job of the Community Manager. I have likened it another layer of insulation between Ubi and the community. Kimi is a Community Developer, a person to interact between the community and the developers.

Ubi created 2 new postions to communicate with customers, but doesn't have answers to questions asked and is evident in a 95+ page thread in the R6V forums and in another 12+ page thread in the Far Cry 2 forum.

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Kleaneasy, can you fairly say GRAW1/2 PC were not as successful as ubisoft would have liked? You guys got nowhere near the criticial acclaim of the GOTY GR or its expansions (despite a laughably equal 80 metacritic score on both titles)

You guys honestly delivered a subpar product to the PC gamers, be it Grin, Ubi, or some breakdown inbetween at fault.

And vegas, despite Vegas 2 snagging some GOTY nominations in a few places and both games doing critically and financially very well on consoles was a sloppy, poorly optimized port.

We all know ubi's games are selling well and a significant majority seems to enjoy them, but do you really think you did the best that ubisoft possibly could for the pc gaming market this last couple years? Or are you working to try and improve quality in that sector?

Sorry Sup I missed this post earlier, not intentional

Do I think they believe it wasn’t as successful as they would’ve liked?

Well the community clearly were not entirely happy with it so I would say it’s fair to assume that it wasn’t as successful as Ubisoft hoped. However I wasn’t on board when it released so I’m speaking from my own point of view rather than any facts

Vegas 2 was far more successful, and more so than many realise with both Vegas 1 & 2 selling more than any of the previous R6 titles combined. Could it be better? Yes no doubt and I think they realised this when they released the Highstakes mode which was a move in the right direction and hopefully if appropriately integrated from release in any future title minus the issues with SADs etc the PC community would be a great deal happier.

Is anyone working to improve quality in PC games?

I know not many believe me when I say this but we do continue to try and find ways to resolve the existing issues and I’m very confident that attitude will be more notable in any future releases. But I do fully understand the reticence many have in believing that.

The entire franchise was dumbed down, both in terms of gameplay and design, to facilitate consoles. If I want a console game, I'll go play Wii Sports. This is what UbiSoft execs just don't understand: PC gamers want PC games. Not console game ports. The best thing that UbiSoft could do for Ghost Recon, is give it back to RSE, and just stay the heck out of the way.

It’s clear from community feedback this isn’t a PC specific view point, it is a view I’ve seen and one we’re aware of.

Alittle far afield but...why isn't this (or similar) conversation(s) taking place here? Is it because critical questions and/or corporate introspection are frowned upon in the home waters? Or could that answer be because there is an almost complete lack of manager/moderator participation (to go along with an almost complete unfamiliarity of the PC version of the series) in the Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter PC section.

But then what would be the point? Long ongoing and relevant topics/polls are unpinned there and replaced (without being merged) for some unknown reason with a newer, shinier, happier version resulting in the original being lost amongst the clutter of misdirected posts in the back pages of an unmanaged forum- almost as if those suggestions/responses were not the ones sought and so they were surreptitiously buried- in the company interest and direction- out with the old in with the new.

The official GR PC forums are generally quieter but this isn’t because we won’t allow critical conversation, in fact the R6 forums are evidence that we do allow critical conversation.

Personally I put the lack of activity on the official GR forum down to a couple of factors but in short the forum lacked management and the community had an alternative more pleasant environment available here so made use of it. Over time many in the community moved over here and as a result these conversations take place here. It would be nice to see people using both forums but I do read posts here regularly (as does Kimi) so we are aware of whats being said even if its not on the official forums.

What can Ubi do to sway PC gamers like myself, WK, and others? Well... the honest answer is "Start listening." It's that simple. Ubi had that chance out of the gate with Ghost Recon 2. Instead of listening to us though, what did they do? Ubi decided that it was easier to simply not publish GR2 for the PC. The company alienated the PC fanbase right then and there. Ubi needs to stop making promises, and stop telling us "We plan this" or "We plan that". They need to simply hush, listen, and do. If they do that, then the sales will come. If not, then Ubi will continue to be hated, and justifiably so.

We are listening, but as I’ve said to others many times before that isn’t going to convince you or anyone else because us listening isn’t tangible. You will be happier when you see the physical evidence of us listening, when the products are out and you can see an improvement born from that communication and listening.

Sorry to go a bit OT here, but did kleaneasy do a Kimi and get hired by Ubisoft? If so congratulations!!! :thumbsup: When did you join up?

And yes, I truly admire and appreciate kleaneasy for being active on these forums speaking for Ubi. It's not an easy job and I'm sure she's not getting paid enough for it :yes:

Yes we did, I’ve been forum manager now since November 2007 Kimi was on board before me although I’m not sure of precise times.

Thank you all for your kind comments, they do mean a lot :)

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Personally I think developers should just stop doing sequels all together.

They could still use the same engine and assets from various games, but call it something completely different. Maybe that would get rid of some of the preconceived notions that gamers get (whether good or bad) when a game is announced for release.

It's like at the beginning of Tropic Thunder when they have the mock movie trailers and they are making fun of action movies with 6 or 7 sequels. It just starts to loose it's flavor after awhile.

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Is anyone working to improve quality in PC games?

I know not many believe me when I say this but we do continue to try and find ways to resolve the existing issues and I’m very confident that attitude will be more notable in any future releases. But I do fully understand the reticence many have in believing that.

First of all, I believe you, kleaneasy. :)

And when I called for the "coming down from the ivory tower", I swear that was certainly not directed at you (or Kimi for that matter!), as I very much appreciate your tireless efforts here and at the Ubi forums, and I am aware of the difficulties in working with a fan community that has to an extent been disappointed by factors almost completely out of your control.

It is not my intention either to downplay the importance of your job or Ubisoft's community work in general, but over time there has evolved a sense of divergence between the "down-to-earth" people at Ubisoft who maintain excellent contact to the "little man" a.k.a. customer, and a corporate structure somewhere in the background, far out of reach for anyone, maybe even too distant for you and Kimi to get in touch with, anymore.

This phenomenon is nothing new in the corporate world and it is certainly not exclusive to Ubisoft. At one point in time in an ever-growing company, elements of communication risk to get stretched beyond their limits, I guess. Of course, this is just a feeling, which - in my case - results from the hugely contrasting impressions I have from you (and Kimi) compared to what I can only guess Ubisoft's corporate management might be like, in view of the - admittedly few - official statements from that side.

So when I ask for Ubisoft to declare themselves here, I am actually - a bit naively - hoping for that corporate side to show up and "confess" their balance-sheet-based "sins". Yes, I know - it may be just a tad arrogant to expect, for example, the CEO to waltz in here at GR.net, just to quell the fears of a few hotheads with too much spare time on their hands, but hey - one can still dream. ;)

The entire franchise was dumbed down, both in terms of gameplay and design, to facilitate consoles. If I want a console game, I'll go play Wii Sports. This is what UbiSoft execs just don't understand: PC gamers want PC games. Not console game ports. The best thing that UbiSoft could do for Ghost Recon, is give it back to RSE, and just stay the heck out of the way.
It’s clear from community feedback this isn’t a PC specific view point, it is a view I’ve seen and one we’re aware of.

It is a relief to hear that those complaints are not isolated to the PC user base, and it bodes well for a growing demand of increased maturity in console titles. Currently there is still a quite noticeable non-parity of premises in game development for PC / consoles and, quite frankly, I consider this to be a case of missed opportunity. There is - to the best of my knowledge - no law that forbids console games to cater to a more "delicate" audience than the teenager market (an over-simplification for brevity sake - no disrespect intended), but sometimes it feels as though there might be. ;)

The official GR PC forums are generally quieter but this isn’t because we won’t allow critical conversation, in fact the R6 forums are evidence that we do allow critical conversation.

Personally I put the lack of activity on the official GR forum down to a couple of factors but in short the forum lacked management and the community had an alternative more pleasant environment available here so made use of it. Over time many in the community moved over here and as a result these conversations take place here. It would be nice to see people using both forums but I do read posts here regularly (as does Kimi) so we are aware of whats being said even if its not on the official forums.

Again I can only speak for myself, but I think your conclusions are spot-on. It is simply a matter of the early bird catching the worm, plus a natural aversion to keep track of basically the same thing in two different places.

We are listening, but as I’ve said to others many times before that isn’t going to convince you or anyone else because us listening isn’t tangible. You will be happier when you see the physical evidence of us listening, when the products are out and you can see an improvement born from that communication and listening.

You are of course absolutely right - even if you posted part of the source code here for us to examine, as living proof of the good things that are about to happen, I would probably still be caught in that "Are we there yet?" loop children sometimes fall into on a journey, especially when exited to reach the desired destination. As compensation for my impatient behavior I can only offer another childish attribute of mine: A sheer limitless joy when we finally arrive.

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