Upgrading to Vista Ultimate

[GrimeyAK 0]

My friend managed to snag me a copy of Vista Ultimate and I've got a couple of questions before I install.

1. I heard that Vista handles sound differently than XP. Will I still be able to utilize my SB Audigy 4? If so, are there Vista specific drivers?

2. It's been a year and a half since I built this PC so my memory is a bit foggy on what type of RAM I'm using. I know that it's Kingston 667 DDR2, but is there some sort of utility I could download to find out exactly what model it is? I want to upgrade to 4GB of RAM from 2GB.

Thanks for any answers

P.S. Until I get the 4GB of RAM, is 2GB still good enough to run games on Vista well?

[Nutlink 0]

1. Yes, there are Vista specific drivers, but they are crap. For the Audigy cards you'd want to look for Daniel_Ks modded drivers if you can find them. Creative decided to pull a bonehead move and limit what their sound cards are capable of in Vista in favor of trying to push their next set of cards as "Vista Compatible."

2. Download CPUZ and run that. It'll tell you everything about your CPU, a little bit about your motherboard, and a lot about your RAM. 2GB is fine with Vista 32, you really only need more than that for Vista 64. Besides, with any 32-bit OS you're limited to less than 4GB of RAM (would show up as maybe 3.5 or so). People will tell you Vista is a RAM hog, and when you look it'll appear that way, but don't be alarmed when it uses over a gig idling. It's just using it as a cache and can easily wipe it out to fill up with stuff you'll actually need.

I've been using Vista 32-bit for about 7 months now, and I really like it. I've been actually thinking of switching over to Vista 64 pretty soon as well just so I can pick up another 4GB of RAM to go with my current 2GB. I also highly recommend going to tweakguides.com and making use of the Vista tweak guide. You'll learn a LOT about the OS, and after running through the entire guide Vista will seem to be a lot faster than it is off of a straight install.

[Papa6 88]

My friend managed to snag me a copy of Vista Ultimate and I've got a couple of questions before I install.

1. I heard that Vista handles sound differently than XP. Will I still be able to utilize my SB Audigy 4? If so, are there Vista specific drivers?

2. It's been a year and a half since I built this PC so my memory is a bit foggy on what type of RAM I'm using. I know that it's Kingston 667 DDR2, but is there some sort of utility I could download to find out exactly what model it is? I want to upgrade to 4GB of RAM from 2GB.

Thanks for any answers

P.S. Until I get the 4GB of RAM, is 2GB still good enough to run games on Vista well?

I've heard that MS changed the whole sound system completely. so much so that, Creative had to or tried to(like they give a ----) produce a work around so our current cards will work.

I also understand that MS locked the kernel so now some or all virus scan companies had a hard time or still are to access the core to get their products to work. But this reminds me of an article that novell is suing MS for NOT releasing data information so they could get wordperfect to work on Win95. I think MS "MIGHT" be strong arming the market again.

[Nutlink 0]

Because, of course, it can't be any sort of a security measure against the likes of rootkits. Also, Vista DID change the way audio is worked out. Basically the drivers are run on the user level instead of the kernel level (think of it as DX6 vs DX9 in terms of compatibility). This works great in a lot of aspects because if you ever have your sound card crash on you it won't crash your computer, just the program you're using. More of it can be explained here:

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,1931917,00.asp

and here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technical_fea...o_Windows_Vista

[CR6 0]

Answers:

1. Look on Creative's site if there are Vista drivers for Audigy 4. I doubt Vista has Audigy 4 drivers built in. If no drivers by Creative, then you will have no sound

2. If you have 32-bit Vista or a 32-bit CPU (P4) then don't bother getting 4GB, as 32-bit Vista can only use just over 3GB if you have 4GB installed.

[Papa6 88]

Because, of course, it can't be any sort of a security measure against the likes of rootkits. Also, Vista DID change the way audio is worked out. Basically the drivers are run on the user level instead of the kernel level (think of it as DX6 vs DX9 in terms of compatibility). This works great in a lot of aspects because if you ever have your sound card crash on you it won't crash your computer, just the program you're using. More of it can be explained here:

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,1931917,00.asp

and here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technical_fea...o_Windows_Vista

So then, it's just poor planning not just by MS but by vendors as well. IF MS and vendors could get together and figure out how to have hardware ready.

Now I've heard that people said that XP had issues with hardware. maybe but, Vista requires a COMPLETE hardware upgrade. a PC with a compatible SND card, videocard..perhaps DX10...motherboard...monitor(Vista certified) some that are not certified, like mine, do work but to what extent?

basically, the sound system in this case, requires a soundcard upgrade. the soundcard I had in win98 could carry over to XP no problem. But a card for XP cannot carry over comfortably to Vista without some sort of tweak or work around.

Vista would probably would have been better received had hardware drivers and such been better planned.

Added: What gives with Creative? did they just basically say...this OS bites and we'll look towards the next edition? your thoughts?

Edited April 24, 2008 by Papa6

[Nutlink 0]

You pretty much hit the nail on the head. The hardware vendors didn't have proper drivers set up for Vista on release (and considering how much time MS gave them, it's really their fault and not that of MS). As for requiring so much of an upgrade...the system I built about 3 years prior ran Vista just fine, the only exception being my constant video card upgrades. This includes a socket 939 motherboard, AMD 3200+, 2 GB of RAM, and monitor (Vista should run fine an any monitor, the only problem being that it won't play back DRM encrusted videos, or at least that's my understanding of it).

As for the audio, that was almost all Creatives fault. A lot of their "features" they had available in XP they intentionally disabled in Vista (noted by a Daniel_K who just reactivated those features to work in Vista). The general consensus is that Creative is going to be releasing a new set of sound cards and toting them as "Vista Compatible" so they'll actually sell. As of right now I don't know of any sound card that is 100% meant for Vista, but I could be wrong. I don't really pay much attention to the world of sound cards

[GrimeyAK 0]

Thanks for the great info on Vista and Creative. I'll just stick with the Audigy 4 and save up some money for that extra RAM.

Still, does anyone know of a utility that I could use to look up the exact specs/model number of my RAM?

Edit: Whoops, I didn't see the other posts. Thanks for that bit of info CR6, but I've got a Core 2 Duo so that shouldn't be a problem for me.

Edited April 24, 2008 by GrimeyAK

[Papa6 88]

You pretty much hit the nail on the head. The hardware vendors didn't have proper drivers set up for Vista on release (and considering how much time MS gave them, it's really their fault and not that of MS). As for requiring so much of an upgrade...the system I built about 3 years prior ran Vista just fine, the only exception being my constant video card upgrades. This includes a socket 939 motherboard, AMD 3200+, 2 GB of RAM, and monitor (Vista should run fine an any monitor, the only problem being that it won't play back DRM encrusted videos, or at least that's my understanding of it).

As for the audio, that was almost all Creatives fault. A lot of their "features" they had available in XP they intentionally disabled in Vista (noted by a Daniel_K who just reactivated those features to work in Vista). The general consensus is that Creative is going to be releasing a new set of sound cards and toting them as "Vista Compatible" so they'll actually sell. As of right now I don't know of any sound card that is 100% meant for Vista, but I could be wrong. I don't really pay much attention to the world of sound cards

I got to thinking..about my comment above, Perhaps these companies didn't want to get involved with Vista? bad news travels fast and with the negative PR that was with Vista, isn't it "probable" that creative and the lot didn't want to do drivers because they didn't want to waste resources on an OS they didn't feel was worthy. just an after thought.

Edited April 25, 2008 by Papa6

[Nutlink 0]

Doubtful, Vista wasn't bashed too bad before release, it was all afterwards (thanks to bad drivers and support from nVidia and Creative).

[Papa6 88]

I have read through an older EWEEK mag I subscribe to that, MS is working feverishly to get Windows7 out late next year. where does that leave a guy like me? perhaps if I upgrade to a Vista laptop, hopefully MS will offer a windows7 free upgrade like they did with vista..

added: whoops, from oem's

Edited April 25, 2008 by Papa6

[ROCO*AFZ* 0]

I have read through an older EWEEK mag I subscribe to that, MS is working feverishly to get Windows7 out late next year. where does that leave a guy like me? perhaps if I upgrade to a Vista laptop, hopefully MS will offer a windows7 free upgrade like they did with vista..

added: whoops, from oem's

There isn't any talk of windows 7 in any of the oem channels nor by ms reps. They are touting vista and server 2008 currently. note this article: http://www.winsupersite.com/faq/windows_7.asp

2010

We heard that from Vista also... and about 6 months before the date it would move a whole year.

For a next year release we would have had an early beta which we do not.

As for sound... Here is the difference that screwed creative. No EAX. Instead they use OpenAL. And creative had crappy drivers for about 4 months. The current X-fi drivers though work great and GR1 even sounds better without any workaround. They were slower though with there older hardware like the original audigy. Not sure about there drivers, although my audigy gamer works great on my wifes (she doesn't play games though lol) If they don't work for an older game google alchemy. It's creatives link to fix them. it's a little confusing but said to work.

1st Step is run all the windows updates after activation and your network card driver.

2nd run SP1 for vista.

3rd Run all the latest drivers from the manufacturers. That's chipset, video card, mouse, sound, the works.

4th any apps you install that Vista says it does not support... DO NOT INSTALL THEM. listen to the O/S. if you do, you may not be able to remove them.

Re-run the experience update. You will have a low score before the drivers and not everything is turned on to compensate. Re-running this will enable aero and indexing and such.

5th if you can't find it click start search and type the 1st letters. (It's where run used to be) Vista's indexer rocks. if i want the disk defrag, i just type def and it will show it... and anything in mail, favorites or documents starting with the same. This really rocks for tech support as i don't have to tell the user where it is.

6th... have fun!

Oh one more note. for some older apps you may not be able to install to program files and anything in that directory does not get admin rights. if your program doesn't work, re-install to just c:/program name

[Papa6 88]

link: http://apcmag.com/vista_successor_windows_...d_next_year.htm

[ROCO*AFZ* 0]

link: http://apcmag.com/vista_successor_windows_...d_next_year.htm

I have to laugh papa... Vista wasn't released to the PUBLIC until 2007. RTM was 2006 but not retail.

3 years from 2007 would be 2010

Read these

http://www.winvistaclub.com/i7.html

And this one sums it up.

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080...t-official.html

and another

http://www.windowsvienna.com/

And from official MS. this is actually the page told to beta testers to check for release dates on Vienna

http://www.microsoft.com/Presspass/press/2...NextVerson.mspx

[Papa6 88]

go ahead and laugh.... BTW, Vienna is NOT Vienna. MS opted to rename it's project windows7.

Roco, do you EVEN know what kernel they'll use for Windows7? I do.. minwin

refute this: http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=842

BTW, I think YOU Roco mentioned iwas wrong about the size of the vista core and minwin core

MinWin is 25 MB on disk; Vista is 4 GB, Traut said.

Edited April 25, 2008 by Papa6

[ROCO*AFZ* 0]

go ahead and laugh.... BTW, Vienna is NOT Vienna. MS opted to rename it's project windows7.

Roco, do you EVEN know what kernel they'll use for Windows7? I do.. minwin

refute this: http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=842

BTW, I think YOU Roco mentioned iwas wrong about the size of the vista core and minwin core

MinWin is 25 MB on disk; Vista is 4 GB, Traut said.

Easy there killer. You are wrong.

http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/win7_minwin_inside.asp

minwin though small insize has no gui. I'm sure that it will be a few gigs once that is added. Note my arcticle. Your Blog changed the wording. it was really compared against a Vista Image which includeds all the gui and the pagefile.

As for the code name i use..i won't stop till its announced as buyable as the name still could change.

stop believing blogs. they will lead you astray. if you want to continue this discussion i suggest a new thread.

Here is even more info

http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/win7_minwin_preview.asp

Note if you have Vista or server 2008, you are actually using minwin. Windows 7 is just another step.

GrimeyAK back to the topic and your question... to read the ram, google cpu-z. It will give you a ton of hardware info including what you want.

[ROCO*AFZ* 0]

Now that i'm not answering on my windows mobile phone...

Here is CPU-Z

http://www.cpuid.com/cpuz.php

Nice little program that will show you all of your hardware clock speeds and even what slots your ram is in.

[NoQuarter 0]

My friend managed to snag me a copy of Vista Ultimate and I've got a couple of questions before I install.

Funny, so do I.

It so happens that I was just given a Vista Ultimate (w/SP1) Promotional Kit (bundled with a Live OneCare trial) from a programmer who attended a MS Heros Happen Here event. Is the copy you were given a promo also, and if so, did you check to see if the pin # in the package grants you a full authorized product key?

[GrimeyAK 0]

Sorry, no I didn't get the promo. The copy I got was an OEM version which didn't require a key.

[ROCO*AFZ* 0]

Oem versions always require keys. Open license versions also do but aren't usually activated. if no key is entered it will be a trial mode and expire

Check your activation under control panel - system

Very bottom. it will tell you what your product id is and if it's activated.

Vista will let you install any version without a key. It just will tell you it needs activated after a few days.

[GrimeyAK 0]

It's already activated and with a key.

[ROCO*AFZ* 0]

Ahh, you must have mistyped then

Sorry, no I didn't get the promo. The copy I got was an OEM version which didn't require a key.