Ghost Recon plot coming true, bang on timescale?

[Guest]

I heard an analysis on WTOP news here in DC that basically said that Georgia acted like a thug kid by picking a fight with the big kid on the block(Russia) and then hiding behind the other big kid on the block(the US).

This could put the US up against Russia if we're not careful. I also heard from the Russian specialist guy on the radio also said that The Ossetian region people have russian passports.

Added; upon further analysis, Russia knows the US is trying to add the former Soviet block nations to NATO. Also, Russia is drawing a line in the sand on NATO encroaching on their sovereign soil.

This could get ugly if my country doesn't play smart. On the same token, Georgia needs to shut up and not fan the flames.

I believe the way Georgia is "acting" is a matter of perspective. Putin's Russia isn't exactly the friendliest country in the region, and to say they would love to have all their little subjects back in the fold would be an understatement. For every analyst that says one thing in DC, you'll find a few others saying the opposite.

S. Ossetian region may have a lot of Russians living there, but they are far from Russia's "sovereign" soil.

I'm affraid that if Russia is able to get away with taking this area back, what will they do to all the other countries who have Russian "citizens."

[Papa6]

yes, full out war. maybe NATO vs Russia?

[Guest]

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Russia's use of strategic bombers and ballistic missiles against Georgia's civilians outside of the South Ossetian conflict is "far disproportionate" to Georgia's alleged attack on Russian peacekeepers, a senior U.S. official said Saturday.

Russian military vehicles line the road to the South Ossetia area of Georgia.

The official was not authorized to speak on the record due to the sensitive nature of the diplomacy.

Russia's use of its potent air weaponry signals a "severe" and "dangerous escalation in the crisis," the official said.

"For the life of me, I can't image that being a proportionate response to the charge that Georgia has attacked Russian peacekeepers," the official said. "It's hard for us to understand what Russia's plan is here."

The official said Russia is probably trying to destabilize Georgia politically to kill its chances of joining NATO.

[Sairus]

Man, I hope they skip the second part of the GR campaing.

So if Georgia stopped attacking Ossetia the russians will go away?

[Walter]

yes, full out war. maybe NATO vs Russia?

Don't see it happening, we're stretched thin as it is.

I think the World will accept what's going on in Georgia with only mild protests. After all who want's to go to war with Russia?

[Papa6]

I see something in the future happening as Georgia is a US ally and we want them in NATO. Russia could be destabilizing the region to prevent Georgia entering NATO.

edits added*

Edited August 10, 2008 by Papa6

[squad_e]

What if the ghosts have been already deployed there..

*Launches GR*

[Parabellum]

What if the ghosts have been already deployed there..

*Launches GR*

The Army Special Forces have been training the Georgian military for years.

[TheoRetiKule]

Indeed, a little game of [GR] suddenly has a whole lot more geopolitical relevance.

Kudos to the guys who concepted and wrote that first campaign, I'd say. We can only wait and see quite how right they might have been...

Theo

[Guest]

What if the ghosts have been already deployed there..

*Launches GR*

The Army Special Forces have been training the Georgian military for years.

Apparently, coming from this article, which hasn't been confirmed yet, one has been captured. It's in Russian, and my wife (knows Russian) says one has been taken prisoner, and flown to some city to wait confirmation.

http://www.izvestia.ru/news/news185341

RIP to all those in this very real war who have fallen and will fall.

[Papa6]

What if the ghosts have been already deployed there..

*Launches GR*

The Army Special Forces have been training the Georgian military for years.

Apparently, coming from this article, which hasn't been confirmed yet, one has been captured. It's in Russian, and my wife (knows Russian) says one has been taken prisoner, and flown to some city to wait confirmation.

http://www.izvestia.ru/news/news185341

RIP to all those in this very real war who have fallen and will fall.

Russians don't take prisoners, atleast not in WWII. this person who ever got captured, I shall pray for him/her.

[Walter]

http://www.izvestia.ru/news/news185341

A Google translation... (LINK)

In South Ossetia captured American mercenary

In South Ossetia captured Georgian group suicide, which is U.S. citizen, African American. It is reported "Osetinskoe radio."

The group arrested in the vicinity of the village of Zar, who is on the "road of life" - Zarskoy road.

It is anticipated that U.S. citizen - one of NATO instructors. At this time, he transferred to Vladikavkaz to ascertain all the circumstances of his stay in the territory of the Republic of South Ossetia.

As Rosbalt "previously полпред South Ossetia in the Russian Federation Dmitry Medoev has already reported that among the corpses in Tskhinvali was found several bodies of black people who fought on the side of Georgia.

17:18 10.08.08

Edited August 11, 2008 by Walter

[Guest]

As of now, no news on that captured soldier, so I'm going to call BS on that story. It would be all over by now. As of today, the current news is Russia has moved wel beyond SO and captured the city of Gori, which is about half way between SO and the captitol of Tiblisi. (sp?)

[Walter]

170 Americans evacuated from Georgia (LINK)

[epabella]

so are 'we' really going? I'll sign-up but sooner the chopper gets here, the better!

[CR6]

Well, Georgian and Russian leaders could learn something from these two athletes at the Olympics

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/08/10/olympic.embrace/

Russia's Natalia Paderina and Georgia's Nino Salukvadze hugged after winning Olympic silver and bronze medals, respectively, in the women's 10-meter air pistol competition.

"If the world were to draw any lessons from what I did, there would never be any wars," Salukvadze, 39, said afterward, according to media reports. The reports described the two as friends.

BTW, the Russian competitor is a soldier in the Russian army

[Papa6]

A good friend of mine knows a guy who is a military correspondent for the department of defense, gave an article about the Russian and Georgian conflict as such;

http://prophecytoday.com/resourcecenter/20...gia-is-east.php

basically he says that Russia is testing the west's commitment to the region. It seems like a pretty well thought out article and could very well shed some light on the true nature of Russia's actions

Afterthoughts; added; I think Russia has always been communist. It just took a different face and look. But I think Russia is really trying to assert itself since it has all kinds of oil money to spend. It controls all the oil and pipelines even to Turkey.

I'm going to say that I think Russia is trying to regain all the nations it lost after the cold war.

Edited August 12, 2008 by Papa6

[Papa6]

Sorry for the double post but, this from Arutz Sheva news

'Oil, Israel and Iran' Among Factors that Led to Georgia War

by Gl Ronen

Analysis of the war in Georgia points to a fight over a major oil route as the main reason for hostilities, but also to an Israeli connection.

Channel 2's expert on the Muslim world, Ehud Ya'ari, told viewers of the central evening newscast that Russia and neighboring countries were vying for control of a strategic oil pipeline from the Caspian Sea to the Mediterranean. This relatively new pipeline passes through Azerbaijan and Georgia to Turkey and is the only pipeline between Asia and Europe that does not pass through Russia or Iran. Israel is expecting to receive oil and gas through the pipeline.

By using the ethnic Russian population in South Ossetia to destabilize Georgia, Russia was making a play for the pipeline, he said.

The Israeli Connection

The Georgian move against South Ossetia was motivated by political considerations having to do with Israel and Iran, according to Nfc. Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili decided to assert control over the breakaway region in order to force Israel to reconsider its decision to cut back its support for Georgia's military.

Russian and Georgian media reported several days ago that Israel decided to stop its support f

Russia bombed a Georgian military plant in which Israeli experts are upgrading jet fighters for the Georgian military.

or Georgia after Moscow made it clear to Jerusalem and Washington that Russia would respond to continued aid for Georgia by selling advanced anti-aircraft systems to Syria and Iran.

Hundreds of Israeli defense experts are reportedly in Georgia and Israel's military industries have been upgrading Georgia's air force, training its infantry and selling the country unmanned aerial vehicles and advanced artillery systems.

Former minister Ronny Milo was reportedly among the leading Israeli middlemen in the arms deals with Georgia and Brig.-Gen. Gal Hirsch has been training army units through a company he owns.

Russia nixes ceasefire

Georgia has ordered its forces to cease fire, and offered to start talks with Russia over an end to hostilities in South Ossetia, Georgian officials said Sunday. However, Russia has reportedly rejected the offer. Earlier in the day, Georgia said its troops had pulled out of the breakaway region and that Russian forces were in control of its capital, Tskhinvali. Georgian President Saakashvili said Sunday that his country's sovereignty is in danger.

After conducting consultations regarding events in Georgia, Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni said Sunday that Israel "recognizes Georgia's territorial integrity." Israel also called for a peaceful resolution of the conflict between Russia and Georgia.

Former minister Ronny Milo was reportedly among the leading Israeli middlemen in the arms deals with Georgia.

Russia bombs Israeli-run plant

Also on Sunday, Russia bombed a Georgian military plant in which Israeli experts are upgrading jet fighters for the Georgian military. According to Nfc, the bombing was a "sharp message" to Israel.

A Russian fighter jet bombed runways inside the plant, located near Tbilisi, where Israeli security firm Elbit is in charge of upgrading Georgian SU-25 jets.

Dozens Waiting to Make Aliyah from Georgia

Eight Jews were scheduled to arrive from Georgia to Israel Sunday evening and dozens more intend to make Aliyah to the Jewish state, once they finish the required paperwork. Representatives of Russian Aliyah agency Nativ will provide the Olim with Aliyah permits. The Georgian government claims Tbilisi's international airport was damaged Sunday after being bombed by Russian jets, and it is not clear if flights will be able to take off in the coming days.

Russia's foreign minister denied the Georgian claim, Russian news agency Interfax reported.

Russia is not denying reports that it bombed a military airport in a suburb of Tbilisi twice.

Russia: Western Media is Pro-Georgian

Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Gregory Karasin said Sunday that international and western press coverage of events in Georgia were biased in favor of the Georgians.

"The West behaved strangely in the first hours of the attack on South Ossetia," Karasin said, and added that "the U.S.A.'s negative attitude" would be "taken into consideration in the future in contacts about other global questions." The US says it will ask the United Nations to condemn Russia's actions in Georgia.

Edited August 12, 2008 by Papa6

[Sup]

Afterthoughts; added; I think Russia has always been communist. It just took a different face and look. But I think Russia is really trying to assert itself since it has all kinds of oil money to spend. It controls all the oil and pipelines even to Turkey.

I'm going to say that I think Russia is trying to regain all the nations it lost after the cold war.

Do you perhaps mean 'expansionist'? There is nothing about communism that implies taking over your neighbors. There is also nothing about russia, as it stands, that demonstrates communism. it's a form of government. it's not the form of government they presently have.

Care to elaborate on why you think they're still communist?

[Guest]

I'm going to say that I think Russia is trying to regain all the nations it lost after the cold war.

Quite literally over my dead body if it spreads to the Baltics. I've seen what Russian oppression looks like, and I don't think I can sit back and let it happen to family, even if they are in-laws

BTW: Thanks for the link, I'll read it first thing in the morning, but one thing....I thought it was a DOD article?

Edited August 12, 2008 by durka-durka

[Papa6]

no, but by a guy who is more a military anaylst/specialist. he was a LT Col in the Army years ago. I know him by his weekly updates on my friends site. IMHO he is credible

Do you perhaps mean 'expansionist'? There is nothing about communism that implies taking over your neighbors. There is also nothing about russia, as it stands, that demonstrates communism. it's a form of government. it's not the form of government they presently have.

Care to elaborate on why you think they're still communist?

Look, Russia is still communist. I hope you don't think Russia is different? Putin has commented several times in the past that he wants to bring back the mother Russia homeland of the past. there are 15 satellite states that Russia lost after the cold war. they want them back. That along with the control of the pipeline that Bush successfully had the pipeline built away from Russia.

videolink: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/26138729#26138729

this war has more prongs than just gaining back the old countries too, it has oil control reasons as well.

Added: Back in the 1980's, then US president Reagan went official that the US had successfully tested the Star wars anti war shield to protect the US. This in turn forced the Soviet Union, today's Russia to spend 3/4ths of every ruble on defense since they felt we can now defend ourselves. I remember this. an article on this is found at; Link to article page 330 read this page it covers what I'm trying to explain (damn I'm old)

[Sup]

None of these things you have stated have anything to do with communism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism

maybe the word you're looking for is 'evil'?

[TheoRetiKule]

Quite a good review of the back story from today's Times (UK newspaper):

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/c...icle4509624.ece

[Sup]

TheoRetiKule, that's an opinion column by a guest contributor. He's not a reporter and he is not trying to write news, he's trying to convince you of what he thinks.

If you're mistaking that for real news, it's no wonder everyone distrusts the media. Stick to the actual paper's articles, they're at least supposed to have some kind of integrity, whether they actually do or not.

Anyway, it's just about over.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/08/12....war/index.html

Funny, when you don't accuse russia of being 'teh evils communists' they're pretty reasonable to negotiate with -- they want some protection of the south ossetians assured, and humanitarian assistance, and that's pretty much it.

huh, sounds just like the kind of small wars (gulf war 1, etc) America has fought, when you take it out of the distorted xenophobic cold war lens most of our news has thrown up.

[Papa6]

None of these things you have stated have anything to do with communism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism

maybe the word you're looking for is 'evil'?

what don't you understand? Do you HONESTLY think Russia is democratic? Russia's leadership are old KGB home boys from the Soviet Union days. Putin has said that he wants to bring back the glory days of the old Soviet Union.

Sup, don't fool yourself into thinking that Russia is this wonderful democratic country. I noticed when the former Soviet Union pulled out of Eastern Europe, nothing really changed with regards to it's system(communism), there just isn't a cold war nor a race for nuclear supremacy. that's the change.

If I may make an anology, when you go to the store, the package says, new package but same great taste?