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Ubi forums takes a turn for the worse


krise madsen
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Thank you for posting. It does let us know a bit more about you.

I know it may be hard to swallow if we mistrust you about what you are trying to do, especially for us PC gamers, after all these years. With the cancellation of the PC version (which probably needed to be canceled over gameplay issues anyway) of GR2 after no information up until the day of cancellation even though people here had seen it in production to the use of console videos and screens to promote the GRAW series on PC and the transformation to a linear game from the openendedness of the original, we fans have seen Ubi utterly trash this and other franchises.

Over the past few years, Ubi has consistently release buggy games (not to mention unoptimized ones too) with limited support (as of recently) and this goes for both consoles and PC games (and it will get worse for consoles too).

We realize that Ubi is a business and wants to make money, honestly we do, but a good product will sell just as much as mediocre products and go a long way to stop consumers from badmouthing Ubi. One has to really wonder why a 6 + year old game is selling better than a 6 month old game.

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One has to really wonder why a 6 + year old game is selling better than a 6 month old game.

Well, it isn't. But if what you're saying was anything resembling true in the real world, i'm sure one would really have to wonder.

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What "actually" happened is also above WK's paygrade. I'm sitting with an NDA and a canceled GR2 for PC report/interview because of it. <_<

Don't want to beat a dead horse, but I'll put in my comment since GR2 PC mention was made. In hindsight after seening how Ubi handled the disastrous release of Lockdown PC (Starforce, broken multiplayer over Ubi.com, poor support to create decent mods, etc etc) the decision to cancel GR2 PC was actually a smart one for Ubi as it helped to postpone the damage to the GR PC franchise for a longer period of time.

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What "actually" happened is also above WK's paygrade. I'm sitting with an NDA and a canceled GR2 for PC report/interview because of it. <_<

Don't want to beat a dead horse, but I'll put in my comment since GR2 PC mention was made. In hindsight after seening how Ubi handled the disastrous release of Lockdown PC (Starforce, broken multiplayer over Ubi.com, poor support to create decent mods, etc etc) the decision to cancel GR2 PC was actually a smart one for Ubi as it helped to postpone the damage to the GR PC franchise for a longer period of time.

Good point.

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I try not to insult those who might be really trying to help.
That part was directed at you and BW and anyone who is really trying to assist the community, sorry for the misunderstanding, I'm not the best writer.

No worries, I wasnt sure hence my post :)

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It seems everyone has given up on the GR series.I havent.I know a new Ghost Recon is in the works.Im sure it wont be perfect.What game is.Its going to be a long wait.I still play the game.A few do.Its still fun ,it still has issues,more since the patch.Thanks Grin.But,We keep chugging along.White,you havent played since early last year and you continue to post in the Graw forums.Somehow that dont seam right.All Ive heard is Graw2 is no longer supported.Wolfy has been coming out with mods to show that it can be done,with time.Guys are making maps.Its still alive.It just requires time to get it done.Graw is dead.Hail Ghost Recon.Yes Graw is done for.Lets all say a prayer.Amen.Ok that might have been to short,But.I think everyone has said there peice on the issue of the Ubi forums.Moderaters gave it there best shot.Ubis games will never be perfect with at least 20 differnt video cards,untold cpu combos,ECT.It aint happening.Its all just a Conspiracy.LOl.Heck if everyone gets there way they will do away with the Cpu and switch to the GPU.Untill they come out with a keyboard and mouse for the xbox360,We will still get a few games.If we can make graw work on our computers we are still advanced gamers.LOL.

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graw2 is a decent game with no good support,from ubi or Grin,don't know.

I play it since 17 of July,and modders now are making new maps and coop missions.

If the game was solid,with no bugs,i would be very satisfied ,because for 30 euros i gave ,it is a best buy for me since now.

My only complain are the bugs and the no auto download feature so more servers have the new maps,mods.

I don't find a server with the new weapon mods of Wolf or Brettzies,and they are very nice mods.

Community and moders makes a game to be "best seller" for me(game is basic too) but i say that because graw2 has potentials.IF not even me([GR] player) and more [GR] players would have leave the game

Edited by Invisible
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I think it comes down too how much money they want to spend on that title compared to what is in devolpment.

Also since EA bought into Ubi,Was that a agreement to have Ubi Dev its titles to be more consoul friendly and keep EA FPS titles on the PC?Does BF2 translate well to consoul?Is this there way to hedge the market while keeping titles strong in there respective areas?Does this translate down to Support?

LOL.

Edited by The Blueberry_EBDA
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An intereseting article on gamasutra.com on how to/not to do community relations:

Online Community Management: Communication Through Gamers

Reading that article, I couldn't help notice the similarities between the descriptions of how not to do things and how Ubi does it. In other words: Ubisoft sucks at community relations.

With the debate in this thread in mind, it also indicates that certain behind-the-scenes changes at Ubi, however subtantial, isn't going to cut it: "We promise to do a much better job now, honest", not matter how true, may actually do more harm than good: One example example is the, presumably, honest attempt of improvement and, very negative community response in the Community ideas for the next GR thread.

Ergo, if Ubi is to regain the trust of the community, they need to make a clean break and start all over again with an all-new forum setup *cough*like gr.net*cough*, and presumably some sort of "confession" of past "sins" by a high level Ubi rep is needed to convince the community that Ubi understand their past mistakes and are ready to learn from them and start anew.

I really don't see that happening, but then again Ubi don't really make any games I'm particularly interested in any more, so I just figured it might be of interest to the Ubi people. Call it a bit of friendly advise if you like (also posted a link to the article on the Ubi forums )

Respectfully

krise madsen

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when you guys type all this stuff about UBISOFT, you might be better served by playing Aerosmith's "DREAM ON" song...that's all we can do..dream on.

"Dream on..Dream on..dream oooonnnnnn.."

Edited by Papa6
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With the debate in this thread in mind, it also indicates that certain behind-the-scenes changes at Ubi, however substantial, isn't going to cut it: "We promise to do a much better job now, honest", not matter how true, may actually do more harm than good: One example example is the, presumably, honest attempt of improvement and, very negative community response in the Community ideas for the next GR thread.

What is missing there is some connect between the community and the dev team.

Unless I am misunderstanding how Ubi do things the person who started that thread is forum staff. They started it to keep their forum tidy.

What that thread doesn't seem to be is a genuine attempt by the developers to connect with their community.

Hell, GRAW3/GR4 hasn't even been announced yet. Who are the developers? There's in-house and bought in studios all over. I don't even know who my feedback in that thread is addressed to or if there is even a producer for that project yet.

Then there's the publisher. Are they even interested? Do they care?

Even if there was fantastic communication between the forum staff and the community and this information was somehow making it's way to the devs if the publisher aren't interested their opinion will be what counts surely?

Without more definites I think we can all see that posting in that thread is an utter waste of time.

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An intereseting article on gamasutra.com on how to/not to do community relations:

Online Community Management: Communication Through Gamers

Reading that article, I couldn't help notice the similarities between the descriptions of how not to do things and how Ubi does it. In other words: Ubisoft sucks at community relations.

With the debate in this thread in mind, it also indicates that certain behind-the-scenes changes at Ubi, however subtantial, isn't going to cut it: "We promise to do a much better job now, honest", not matter how true, may actually do more harm than good: One example example is the, presumably, honest attempt of improvement and, very negative community response in the Community ideas for the next GR thread.

Ergo, if Ubi is to regain the trust of the community, they need to make a clean break and start all over again with an all-new forum setup *cough*like gr.net*cough*, and presumably some sort of "confession" of past "sins" by a high level Ubi rep is needed to convince the community that Ubi understand their past mistakes and are ready to learn from them and start anew.

I really don't see that happening, but then again Ubi don't really make any games I'm particularly interested in any more, so I just figured it might be of interest to the Ubi people. Call it a bit of friendly advise if you like (also posted a link to the article on the Ubi forums )

Respectfully

krise madsen

I had suggested that a high level Ubi chief come to their forums and answer questions, but was told it was logistically impossible and that I had made an unreasonable request (or words to that effect). Ubi is so far disconnected with their customers it is sickening and I feel that all we are getting is lip service on the we are trying to get you more information. They are posting more, right now, but what we really want to know, we are not being told. We do not care about viral advertising campaigns, nor do we care if they are trying to post screen, we care about gameplay and we do not have that information.

Ubi has no care about remaking their image and as such, injure themselves even further. That Community Ideas thread was created after I stated that even with a 27 page thread in the console forum, Ubi wouldn't listen and give us the info we wanted. The PC forums already had 3 or 5 different threads detailing what we wanted in the past 6 months, we really didn't need another. That is why you see the negativity in said thread. Ubi just does not get it.

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What is missing there is some connect between the community and the dev team.

Unless I am misunderstanding how Ubi do things the person who started that thread is forum staff. They started it to keep their forum tidy.

What that thread doesn't seem to be is a genuine attempt by the developers to connect with their community.

Hell, GRAW3/GR4 hasn't even been announced yet. Who are the developers? There's in-house and bought in studios all over. I don't even know who my feedback in that thread is addressed to or if there is even a producer for that project yet.

Then there's the publisher. Are they even interested? Do they care?

Even if there was fantastic communication between the forum staff and the community and this information was somehow making it's way to the devs if the publisher aren't interested their opinion will be what counts surely?

Without more definites I think we can all see that posting in that thread is an utter waste of time.

Community Developers are taking up positions on many games at Ubisoft. Their sole purpose is that of direct communication link between the forum community and the developers and whilst the system is still in its infancy and likely to see adjustments and improvements with time and experience they have already proven a great asset.

You are right of course that the GR community hasn’t had any information but this is simply because there isn’t any to give as of yet. GRAW3 is not in development as past rumours suggested but beyond that there isn’t any news. However once there is news you will be informed of all those details, what game, who’s developing, and who your community developer is.

But none of this means you shouldn’t post your thoughts and opinions or that doing so is a waste of time, it’s very important to ensure your opinions are known and not just once a game is announced but long before when such a game might be in the very early stages and before any major decisions on direction are made.

I had suggested that a high level Ubi chief come to their forums and answer questions, but was told it was logistically impossible and that I had made an unreasonable request (or words to that effect). Ubi is so far disconnected with their customers it is sickening and I feel that all we are getting is lip service on the we are trying to get you more information. They are posting more, right now, but what we really want to know, we are not being told. We do not care about viral advertising campaigns, nor do we care if they are trying to post screen, we care about gameplay and we do not have that information.

Ubi has no care about remaking their image and as such, injure themselves even further. That Community Ideas thread was created after I stated that even with a 27 page thread in the console forum, Ubi wouldn't listen and give us the info we wanted. The PC forums already had 3 or 5 different threads detailing what we wanted in the past 6 months, we really didn't need another. That is why you see the negativity in said thread. Ubi just does not get it.

WK why do you persist in posting inaccurate statements re that conversation? I am quite confused as to the purpose of benefit of misquoting/ misleading on that conversation so perhaps you could enlighten me?

In regard to the PC feedback thread that was really quite simple…. Some time ago before I was FM a community member in the console forum created a feedback thread which as a mod I stickied. Later as FM both Blackwidow and I became aware of posts in the PC forum where the idea was suggested that because the console feedback thread had been stickied it somehow proved Ubisoft thought the console gamer was more important. This was totally untrue and simply the result of 2 different moderating styles, no more no less but once the issue was raised Blackwidow and I thought it best to give the feedback thread requested i.e. a sticky one like the console forum had. We couldn’t simply sticky an already existing thread because numerous had been created before and no single one was more important than another so we created a new one. The reason we hadn’t done it before was because we as you say also didn’t feel you needed yet another feedback thread but when member comments in another thread stated to the contrary we thought we had made an error and obliged the request. If a dedicated sticky was never what was wanted then I am confused why the issue was ever raised tbh.

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Community Developers are taking up positions on many games at Ubisoft. Their sole purpose is that of direct communication link between the forum community and the developers and whilst the system is still in its infancy and likely to see adjustments and improvements with time and experience they have already proven a great asset.

And I'm only reading this over here? :D

That's one very obvious issue to remedy if you want the community to take that process seriously. Are you the Community Dev? If you aren't why isn't the Community Dev posting?

You are right of course that the GR community hasn’t had any information but this is simply because there isn’t any to give as of yet. GRAW3 is not in development as past rumours suggested but beyond that there isn’t any news. However once there is news you will be informed of all those details, what game, who’s developing, and who your community developer is.

I appreciate that. I guess that's fair enough. But that goes back to my point about there not being a real connect as yet.

But none of this means you shouldn’t post your thoughts and opinions or that doing so is a waste of time, it’s very important to ensure your opinions are known and not just once a game is announced but long before when such a game might be in the very early stages and before any major decisions on direction are made.

Has there been a shortage of feedback where these franchises are concerned though?

Ah well. I should give the whole thing the benefit of the doubt and say GR4 is the chance to show off this new Community Developer process.

Edited by spm1138
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What is missing there is some connect between the community and the dev team.

Unless I am misunderstanding how Ubi do things the person who started that thread is forum staff. They started it to keep their forum tidy.

What that thread doesn't seem to be is a genuine attempt by the developers to connect with their community.

Hell, GRAW3/GR4 hasn't even been announced yet. Who are the developers? There's in-house and bought in studios all over. I don't even know who my feedback in that thread is addressed to or if there is even a producer for that project yet.

Then there's the publisher. Are they even interested? Do they care?

Even if there was fantastic communication between the forum staff and the community and this information was somehow making it's way to the devs if the publisher aren't interested their opinion will be what counts surely?

Without more definites I think we can all see that posting in that thread is an utter waste of time.

Community Developers are taking up positions on many games at Ubisoft. Their sole purpose is that of direct communication link between the forum community and the developers and whilst the system is still in its infancy and likely to see adjustments and improvements with time and experience they have already proven a great asset.

You are right of course that the GR community hasn’t had any information but this is simply because there isn’t any to give as of yet. GRAW3 is not in development as past rumours suggested but beyond that there isn’t any news. However once there is news you will be informed of all those details, what game, who’s developing, and who your community developer is.

But none of this means you shouldn’t post your thoughts and opinions or that doing so is a waste of time, it’s very important to ensure your opinions are known and not just once a game is announced but long before when such a game might be in the very early stages and before any major decisions on direction are made.

I had suggested that a high level Ubi chief come to their forums and answer questions, but was told it was logistically impossible and that I had made an unreasonable request (or words to that effect). Ubi is so far disconnected with their customers it is sickening and I feel that all we are getting is lip service on the we are trying to get you more information. They are posting more, right now, but what we really want to know, we are not being told. We do not care about viral advertising campaigns, nor do we care if they are trying to post screen, we care about gameplay and we do not have that information.

Ubi has no care about remaking their image and as such, injure themselves even further. That Community Ideas thread was created after I stated that even with a 27 page thread in the console forum, Ubi wouldn't listen and give us the info we wanted. The PC forums already had 3 or 5 different threads detailing what we wanted in the past 6 months, we really didn't need another. That is why you see the negativity in said thread. Ubi just does not get it.

WK why do you persist in posting inaccurate statements re that conversation? I am quite confused as to the purpose of benefit of misquoting/ misleading on that conversation so perhaps you could enlighten me?

In regard to the PC feedback thread that was really quite simple…. Some time ago before I was FM a community member in the console forum created a feedback thread which as a mod I stickied. Later as FM both Blackwidow and I became aware of posts in the PC forum where the idea was suggested that because the console feedback thread had been stickied it somehow proved Ubisoft thought the console gamer was more important. This was totally untrue and simply the result of 2 different moderating styles, no more no less but once the issue was raised Blackwidow and I thought it best to give the feedback thread requested i.e. a sticky one like the console forum had. We couldn’t simply sticky an already existing thread because numerous had been created before and no single one was more important than another so we created a new one. The reason we hadn’t done it before was because we as you say also didn’t feel you needed yet another feedback thread but when member comments in another thread stated to the contrary we thought we had made an error and obliged the request. If a dedicated sticky was never what was wanted then I am confused why the issue was ever raised tbh.

1st - On a practical note the CCO at Ubisoft is head over a very large company, he isn’t a CCO at a small development house with maybe a handful of projects on the go and as such actually setting up the situation you requested in practical terms 'I' think is highly unlikely because it would be almost impossible in logistic terms alone. In fact if I were to play devil’s advocate one could propose you suggested it because you know it’s not possible

Are these not your words? I didn't twist anything around. I am stating exactly what you said. The biggest problem is instead of trying to show that Ubi does care, we get excuses and such. Why don't you come up with an idea on how Ubi can show us that Ubi does care. Come up with a way that Ubi can tell us fans that they have F'ed up!

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Are these not your words? I didn't twist anything around. I am stating exactly what you said. The biggest problem is instead of trying to show that Ubi does care, we get excuses and such. Why don't you come up with an idea on how Ubi can show us that Ubi does care. Come up with a way that Ubi can tell us fans that they have F'ed up!

There was a great deal more to that conversation than those few words.

I already did come up with a response to how they/ Ubi can show you, I have said many many times that you (the community as a while) will not feel better or have more faith until the game you want is in your hands, and you yourself have said the same only a few posts back in this very thread.

I have tried many times in public on the forums and in private in that very discussion you keep misquoting to say that you should stop wasting energy asking for things you neither want nor will change how you feel and instead focus that energy constructively on getting what you do want. If you do not feel it a worthy cause to spend your energy in such a way that is your choice but if you are going to use energy as you are at least let it on something worthwhile.

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You two need to get a room...

As for this 'system' still being in it's infancy, which is not necessarily any fault of the couple of UBI forum folks who're answering for it here (WHY, I'll never understand), it needs to grow the heck up REAL quick if there are to be ANY Ubisoft/TomClancy's fans left by the time it gets ripe.

Yes, we are mean-spirited. Yes, we will quote anyone even vaguely associated with developers and publishers over and over and over, in sickening detail and sometimes (NOT suggesting anything here, you two) out of context. Yes, we expect water-to-wine miracles out of a certain publisher and it's products in a certain long lost franchise of games.

For that virtual faceraping we've taken over the last couple years, I think we deserve to see either some electronic stone-to-bread, or to see a clean and clear admission of the true state of things- Ubisoft doesn't give a damn as long as the profits continue to roll in. And a company that doesn't turn a profit CANNOT afford to pay $120million for a name...

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You two need to get a room...

As for this 'system' still being in it's infancy, which is not necessarily any fault of the couple of UBI forum folks who're answering for it here (WHY, I'll never understand), it needs to grow the heck up REAL quick if there are to be ANY Ubisoft/TomClancy's fans left by the time it gets ripe.

Yes, we are mean-spirited. Yes, we will quote anyone even vaguely associated with developers and publishers over and over and over, in sickening detail and sometimes (NOT suggesting anything here, you two) out of context. Yes, we expect water-to-wine miracles out of a certain publisher and it's products in a certain long lost franchise of games.

For that virtual faceraping we've taken over the last couple years, I think we deserve to see either some electronic stone-to-bread, or to see a clean and clear admission of the true state of things- Ubisoft doesn't give a damn as long as the profits continue to roll in. And a company that doesn't turn a profit CANNOT afford to pay $120million for a name...

Agree with this a lot, and its true but it is a business and profit does come first.

And I have seen a definate change in the last 4 years how things are done, anf it does prove that its working for the titles, but not for a few hundred players.

We are the few now thats for sure, most of us age wise similar, we know what we wont out of a game.

We lost it back in I dont know 2003 I suppose, thats 5 years of a different direction, and we cant handle it.

The thing that strikes me is over the last couple yeras a lot of console players have been asking for the same as us the older ones from early on, Im talking about just a few either.

I have spent 2 - 3 years reading members posts on most gr forums and one thing comes over all the time is console and pc players are wanting a more tatical game, as was the case between 96- 2000.

2001 and to 2003 saw a massive surge towards tatical shooters RV and GR led the way, the surge died with the advent of makeing games more appealing to other players within the same game.

I understand why one would do this money, and yes it worked but only on console platforms, not pc.

Ubisoft in 5 years has alienated its pc fps customer to the point of extinction and this is not a lie but the truth.

By changing the very core of the game its lost is costomer base nearly completly.

If Ubi was really interested in a tatical game that made great communities including, web sites/game servers/team speak servers/teams/tournaments/a massive modding community and all the other good things that come from a great game then we would still have this today.

WE HAVE NOT.

All of the above things that made a community work have gone because no game that has been released is good enough to provide this.

And looking at the ingame specifics 4 player coop/no direct ip/modding way too hard for most/ and a host of other things, the direction that was decided was MEANT TO FRAGMENT AND DESTROY THE COMMUNITY IN 2 because that exactly what it did.

So to those of you that are still arguing the point it really is a waste of time.

Ubisoft chose the direction it took and has reinforced that direction for 5 years.

The company will not change direction when makeing such massive profits, just for a few hundred of us complaining about destruction of a couple of great games.

It is not going to happen.

Let it rest and move on it really is the best thing to do.

Edited by Colin
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You two need to get a room...

A padded one? :hmm:

No, after what I just shelled out today to fix a car tht's still under warranty, I think the padded room and I-LOVE-ME jacket are reserved for ME...

Those two need to lock themselves in the Honeymoon Suite with a couple ball pien hammers and go thunderdome- two admins enter, one admin leaves...

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Ubisoft in 5 years has alienated its pc fps customer to the point of extinction and this is not a lie but the truth.

By changing the very core of the game its lost is costomer base nearly completly.

This applies to more games than just GR and platforms, not just the PC. Every day, I see more people from the Ubi forums appearing on a different developers forum. That speaks volumes.

Sorry everyone, it's just that there are people who can't see the writing on the wall and are doing their damnedest to keep management insulated from our concerns. If Ubi wants to regain their image, they really need to do more than community developers, community managers and forum managers. Management needs to step up to the plate and eat crow. This is all you will hear about this for now.

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