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"Tactical" server opinion.


Zebb
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As you know Rocky i have spent most of my recent gaming time in the TSG server and despite the fact that it is a better style of gameplay for me personally there are a few points i wanted to bring up for discussion to see what other people think since i know you want to start a similar server type.

The main issue that i have is that a rule is enforced that requires you to adopt the crouching position and therefore slows the game down considerably but there is no restriction on people just camping/sniping who wait for everyone else to attempt to capture flags/Hq's etc and then pick them off at their leisure with no threat to them at all, normally there are several players using this "tactic" (and i use the word lightly) and it can get very irritating very quickly, people should be forced to move position after a certain length of time to prevent this happening.

The use of the "killcam" should be minimised since moving so slowly makes it easy to know where people are likely to be.

It should be illegal to overwatch a known spawn point, especially with a scoped weapon since people tend to adopt the crouch when they spawn and are just getting their bearings when they get shot several times in a row by the same person just camping out, now we know that sometimes the spawn point is variable and there isn't much you can do if someone appears near you but the traditional spawn points should be out of bounds, and there should be no claymores/C4 laid at a spawn point or airstrikes/helosfor saved up until the spawn is full for the same reason.

I am not a fan of the "last stand/martydom" perk where you can shoot someone half way across a map and still be killed by their pistol with no aiming at all from them, i know this is more of a personal dislike but it's worth mentioning.

The game will always be a little bit uneven in relation to individual skill until everyone has had the chance to gain the better weapons, i have lost count of the number of shoot outs i have lost because i have a weaker/slower weapon, but there needs to be some kind of restraint on the use of frags, both hand thrown and weapon mounted, since some people base their whole game on throwing or firing these at spawn points/choke points at the start of a map and then camp out with their SAW and wait for people to come to them.

I know that a few of these points may seem to be minor issues to some people but i guess the point i want to make is that if you want to play a slower more, and i hate to use the word, "tactical" game then it should be across the board and not just adopting a crouch and trying to survive the onslaught of airstrikes/helos/frags and sniping campers.

The guys over at TSG do keep a tight leash on people who constantly use frags etc on top of those not crouching but i was hoping that if we are going to start a new server along these lines them maybe we can try to enforce some of these ideas from the start ?

Everyone has their own way in which they enjoy to play this game and obviously that's the way it should be, but i am aiming my points at people who like the slower paced version and i would like to know if what i ask is reasonable ?.. :hmm:

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Holy cow mate, do you know how many kills I could get in the time it took to read that? :lol:

Good points though, but I have a different take on some of them - they are contentious points continually being debated though. Here's my take, maybe the SPARTA guys can comment too...

Camping "people should be forced to move position after a certain length of time"

I've thought about this a lot.

The counter side says that camping is a viable tactic. I played R6 against an LAPD SWAT team member a few years back, and when I used the word camper to describe his style, he was a tad annoyed. When I thought about it I understood why - he was a police officer, and in the type of dangerous scenarios he found hiself in on a regualr basis "camping" was probably the best way to stay alive.

In game, personally I am okay with campers. If they do as you describe and always adopt the same position, it's great for me, because they only get me twice, because the third time I sneak up on them, easy. If a camper continually gets someone from the same spot, that person really needs to think about their own tactics more.

Another thing is some game types have a defend requirement. The best way to defend an area, or target, is to find a good overwatch, and camp it out. In that case, it seems to make more sense to me than running around picking off happen stance encounters.

The problem with camping can be that your score can end up being very low, so personally I do not see the attraction in camping and I see it as a tactic used by n00bs who do not know that map very well, and prefer to hunker down.

I have been known to camp it out on search and destroy maps. If the objective is to defend an area, while eveyone esle runs off in search of a big kill score, I'll hunker down in some grass and scope out the area the enemy is targeting. Not all the time, just some times.

So in summary, campers can be very infuriating, but also a viable tactic, IMO.

killcam should be minimised

Killcam is fun, but on a tactical server I agree it should be switched off.

It should be illegal to overwatch a known spawn point.

Absolutely anyone camping out just to scope a known spawn area and get easy kills should be booted. But there's a caveat. I'll use last night as an example. I had someone text me "that's spawn!!". The problem is, I was facing AWAY from the spawn area, standing on a skip, scoping out an open area for targets. After a few seconds I became aware of targets behind me (can't recall if it is gunfire or UAV), so I did a 180 and started shooting before they shoot me. Then I got accused of spawn kills. What's a guy to do in that situation? You could debate this in a 4 page essay, but instances like that are unfortuntae but to be expected I would think. We also have to consider people (even me at rank 51) who really do not know where the spawns are, I just don't take that info in.

Claymores at spawn? That's bad ###### and I HATE that.

Airstrikes helos for saved up until the spawn? See it all the time and I agree, it is bad sportsmanship for sure. What I do, is tend to save it until the UAV comes online, that does make sense, a lot of sense. The problem is though, what if the UAV comes online, and there's 6 enemy just spawned and glowing all red saying "BOMB ME!!!", what do you do?!

"last stand/martydom" perk

Should be removed from the game IMO. ###### me off no end, I have NEVER used it.

Nade Spamming

Blindly throwing nades where you suspect someone might be because you know the spawn or preferred routes, is wrong and should be warned IMO. Regreatably I do not see this being actioned on TSG server, they seem to allow it. IMO you should only nade where there is visual eveidence of an enemy, either UAV, sighting the enemy, or seeing a muzzle flash.

In summary I think I would admin a server the same way as you, with the exception of the camping thing perhaps.

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Lol, thanks for taking the time to reply to this mate.

I know my comment about camping is a dodgy one just because imo everyone does it at some point, i know that sometimes i luck upon a good position and i'm loathed to leave it just because the other side keep coming through the same gap i have covered and can't get a good bead on me, or as you say you have to cover a position etc and to keep moving around just gives away your position.

Obviously during my time in the forces i know why we would use tactics that in a game would be considered camping, but my main gripe is with the people who just hunker down from the very start of the map with no intention of moving while everyone else is running about trying to capture flags, kill opponents etc and in doing so run up high death totals on their own score with no support from people who are supposed to be on their team.

That was my only exception with regards to spawn killing, when the spawn suddenly changes and without knowing it you suddenly discover you have a load of targets in front of you, personally as soon as i understand what has happened i pull out of the area back into my own teams ground but it is an awkward point and one that you have to rely on the integrity of the individual player concerned.

But i can see that generally we are on the same page when it comes down to server etiquette and there are always going to be personal points that people will differ on, as long as people are trying to play within the "spirit" of the server rules then that's all you can hope for..

I hope i haven't cut into your 1337 hax0r play time any more than is necessary this time mate.. :lol:

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On the subject of camping I agree with Zebb somewhat, especially when it comes to the type of player who just sits in one place the whole game and doesn't help out the team, my favorite example was when I was playing one game on "Crash" I believe, the one with the helicopter in the middle, and 2 of my teammates just sat in the blue house watching doors the entire game, the entire game. It is pretty hard to do much when it is essentially 4vs6 when the teams are fairly evenly matched.

But I probably camp just as much as anyone else, especially when my team seems content to just hold on to one important building, a good example is the two story house on...forget the name of the map, but it has the barn and the two bridges one of wood another of stone...well anyway, the house with the MG in the window and a couple of windows. But I almost think that it is too easy to camp sometimes especially if you bring along claymores, because one well played claymore can take out pretty much anybody coming around a door or up some stairs.

On a more personal note, my favorite place to camp is behind a little piece of tin on "Bog" that juts out from one of the buildings kinda beside the bulldozer, I don't know how I get so many kills from it because it is very exposed, but I do.

I don't really like Search and Destroy gametypes because it just seems to be a huge camp fest and anytime I start to move a sniper bullet goes through my ear, I will give them props for being skilled with the rifle, but seriously they probably hadn't moved for a couple of minutes.

I play pretty much only Hardcore gametypes so that the killcam is not active, which is pretty nice, even when getting camped out the rear end by someone I think it really adds some fun to the game and alot more tactics when you don't have to sprint away from where you killed somebody from so they can't get you back as soon as they spawn.

And I agree with Rocky on the airstrike thing, what is a guy going to do when there is the whole enemy team in one little spot, you don't know that they just spawned maybe they are just good at sticking together, who can resist that "Carpet Bomb" challenge?

Edited by Kamakazi
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Spawn camping is an obvious problem in any game, if there was an easy solution for this ongoing problem it will certainly change the way some people play.

My opinion is that people spawn camp because it s the best and easiest way to improve there experience points and K/D ratio, if the game did not register a hit at the spawn, my guess is that it eliminates any purpose for people to spawn camp, infact , if you take it up another step, the spawn camper will receive a minus score, which removes all incentive

Campers (not spawn campers) in general don’t bother me, infact I find it challenging, especially now that I’m learning the maps, once you get to know the map you also get to know where people may be, dead silence and bomb squad are the to main perks I use due to the fact that most people that bunker down use claymores, I’m not always successful at it, my K/D ratio is at about 50/50, but as I say, its all in the challenge.

The perks last stand and martyrdom are extremely annoying, once again, it’s a tool that people use to improve there exp points, it serves no other purpose other than once you’ve been compromised you have a chance to bump your score.

Crouch only rule sounds interesting, I haven’t been on a crouch only server, but you would think if you need to cross the road or travel through an open area you should be able to run as you would normally.

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  • 7 months later...

Another old but interesting (for me) thread.

I haven't been playing COD4 very long. I haven't been playing FPS games for v long either having only gotten into PC gaming 6 weeks or so ago. Thus it's no suprise to me that I am usually languishing near to the bottom of the score board on the games I do play - COD4, DOD:Source and GRAW2 (if I can find a server with decent ping) - and that I am happy if I can get a KPD ratio of above 0.5

I enjoyed the games I have played on the Sparta/GR.Net server much more than the public ones I have joined for many of the reasons outlined in this thread. Last Stand & Martyrdom are completely lame ideas - ###### were they thinking introducing those? I hate the airstrikes and helicopter too (and not just because I will likely never be good enough to earn them myself.) Random grenade tossing (well I suppose it's not really random but you know what I mean) also gets on my tits especially if it gets you as you spawn.

Camping is interesting as one person's definition of camping is likely to differ from another's. I have no problem with it and the most vocal critics tend to be those who are most likely to be the ones on a constant sprint around the map. The maps (admittedly I don't know them at all well yet) seem to be pretty good in offering multiple routes to the same point. As a new player I admit I will often sit in one place and try to take in my bearings and try to get a feel for the heavier traffic routes - I don't think I have the patience to camp properly though, I always get bored and go off wandering in search of action with predictable consequences.

The spawning situation is strange. I quite like the idea of spawning in the theoretical safety of the midst of my team but in reality I am often at the immediate mercy of someone who slays me again immediately OR I get an unfair advantage as I suddenly appear to the side of a member of the opposing team who is completely oblivious to my presence and I can kill them without having to 'earn' it. I guess this probably evens itself out over the course of the game but at least with a clearly defined spawn area and multiple exits it is much easier to define spawn-camping if not eradicate it.

I'm a big fan of friendly fire. Hmm, maybe I should rephrase that. I like games where FF is on. Yes, you get the odd ###### purposely TK'ing but they are usually dealt with swiftly. The one downside here is that sometimes the team identifiers do not show sufficiently quickly (or at all in some instances) and if you delay in order to be sure then you're likely as not to be killed by the other person.

I'm only at Lv12 at present so I'd like to think that I might improve my KPD ratio as I unlock more perks and better weapons, etc. Unfortunately I think all that it will do is remove one more of the excuses I use to comfort myself as I face the 'Waiting to respawn' message once again.

Rob

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I do understand the points of the issues noted pro and con.

All of these issues are subject to debate and can be a source of friction.

I am not trying to be offensive or glib with what I am about to say, as I can be infuriated by spawn campers, nade spammers, martys, and last standers myself.

But there is a counter tactic for every tactic and all is fair in love and war.

If the game or server settings allow it, I and my team mates will have to deal with it somehow.

It is satisfying to shoot any of the above in the act.

With martys, I am always prepared to run like hell.

I try not to linger in areas where I can be nade spammed or carpet bombed.

I pump bullets into a last stander until I get my 10 pts.

I try to help keep the spawn free from the enemy.

Sometimes being killed is just bad luck or seemingly unfair. I accept in this game I will be killed numerous times even with the best of tactics.

I have played allot of COD4 online and only a couple times have I turned into a froathing idiot because of the frustration of it. When I get that way, I know it is time to take a rest and come back later.

Regards, wombat50

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I am not trying to be offensive or glib with what I am about to say, as I can be infuriated by spawn campers, nade spammers, martys, and last standers myself.

But there is a counter tactic for every tactic and all is fair in love and war.

I have played a lot more of this game in the last week or so, pretty much to the exclusion of any other title and I have to say I am coming round to this point of view. I still don't like some of the perks but that's usually because they are the ones that kill me but I am learning to love the game for what it is rather than curse it for what it is not. Mind you, helicopters and airstrikes in FFA still seem a bit daft to me :hmm:

I had thought Martyrdom was just a cheap way to get extra kills so I decided to try a couple of rounds with it as my Perk3 but I saw little benefit to my KpD ratio which kinda disproves my theory.

I do love charging around indoors on Chinatown or Broadcast with a shotgun though - makes me think of John Connor in the original Terminator film.

Have been playing a lot of TDM on a server with a 750 point limit and a 3 map rotation so it cycles very frequently. Amazing what a difference it makes to your scores when you start to get a decent knowledge of a map.

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... as I can be infuriated by spawn campers, nade spammers, martys, and last standers myself.

But there is a counter tactic for every tactic .....

I don't agree with that as regards Martrdom, because in most situations there is no counter tactic. Many times aster a CQB kill I would be victim to a marty kill, not because I was standing around gloating over my kill, but because it was very difficult to make a quick exit, away from the frags kill zone, due to their perhaps only being one door and no clear/fast route to it, etc.

So even if you play every kill as if it's a marty/last stand, you are still going to die for a percentage of them. That was my experience anyway, and I personally found it unfair/unrealistic.

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Mind you, helicopters and airstrikes in FFA still seem a bit daft to me

Hehe. That and airstrikes on Wetwork. That is one tough ship.

I agree Rocky, marty can be seemingly unfair at times. I have had the same problem of being trapped with no quick exit.

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Not necessarily directly on topic but I would like it if the scoreboard at the end of the match categorised people's points between Gun Kills, Knife Kills, Grenade Kills, Air Kills and Perk Kills. Would be interesting to see just what proportion some of those topping the boards get from means other than straightforward gun kills.

I also think the scoring in TDM is weird in having 10 points per kill but no penalty when dying. This does incentivise the kamikaze approach IMO and often times I have seen board leaders have as many if not more deaths than kills. I guess awarding -10 pts for a death is tricky (and would make levelling for new players much harder) but I think being killed should carry some kind of penalty.

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