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HD DVD vs. Blu-Ray


WhiteKnight77
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this is actually disappointing news to me. Blu Ray players are so much more expensive and the movies are just as bad price wise. I have seen a ton of sites lately with really good deals on HD dvd's. Many good titles at $12 and $15.

Guess I'll be sticking with standard dvd's for awhile.

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this is actually disappointing news to me. Blu Ray players are so much more expensive and the movies are just as bad price wise. I have seen a ton of sites lately with really good deals on HD dvd's. Many good titles at $12 and $15.

Guess I'll be sticking with standard dvd's for awhile.

You realize of course that the prices on HD DVDs only dropped after Warner made their announcement. And you realize that manufacturers were eating it by dumping cheap HD DVD players on the market last fall because of desperation, right? Prices will actually drop in earnest as more people adopt the standard. It is the same for any piece of technology.

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Yeah in one of the articles Hatchet posted on here it said amazon had HD DVDs for like 50 percent off which usually indicates something's gonna die off. I got a shirt a while back from a website and I was gonna get another one but they were in limited sizes and colors. Contacted the manufacturer and they told me the product was being discontinued. You should check dvd empire or cd universe for their blu ray prices. One thing that has me mad is Kingdom is a Universal Studios movie and they're still with HD DVD. I like that movie cause I can show off my Arabic to friends and family. Like "Yeah that means car." or "He's saying no" LOL

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Toshiba announces press conference to drop HD DVD

http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/news/show/...rop_HD_DVD/1479

Toshiba has scheduled a press conference for later today, at which it is widely expected to announce that it is officially ceasing support of the HD DVD format.

Japanese news site Nikkei.net broke the news that Toshiba has scheduled a press conference for 5pm Tokyo time Tuesday (that's 12 midnight PST), at which the company is expected to announce that it will immediately stop manufacturing all HD DVD hardware and that it will cease selling them at retail by the end of March.

The news comes on the heels of a rapid succession of high-profile setbacks for the format over the past last week. First, three major retailers -- Netflix, Best Buy and Wal-Mart -- each announced plans to endorse the rival Blu-ray format, followed by intense speculation that Toshiba was mulling over its exit strategy for the nearly two-year old next-gen format (a claim that the company later confirmed, though it stopped short of declaring whether any decision had been made).

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HD DVD officially dead:

http://gizmodo.com/357957/toshiba-kills-hd-dvd-official

Toshiba Announces Discontinuation of HD DVD Businesses

19 February, 2008

Company Remains Focused on Championing Consumer Access to High Definition Content

TOKYO--Toshiba Corporation today announced that it has undertaken a thorough review of its overall strategy for HD DVD and has decided it will no longer develop, manufacture and market HD DVD players and recorders. This decision has been made following recent major changes in the market. Toshiba will continue, however, to provide full product support and after-sales service for all owners of Toshiba HD DVD products.

HD DVD was developed to offer consumers access at an affordable price to high-quality, high definition content and prepare them for the digital convergence of tomorrow where the fusion of consumer electronics and IT will continue to progress.

"We carefully assessed the long-term impact of continuing the so-called 'next-generation format war' and concluded that a swift decision will best help the market develop," said Atsutoshi Nishida, President and CEO of Toshiba Corporation. "While we are disappointed for the company and more importantly, for the consumer, the real mass market opportunity for high definition content remains untapped and Toshiba is both able and determined to use our talent, technology and intellectual property to make digital convergence a reality."

Toshiba will continue to lead innovation, in a wide range of technologies that will drive mass market access to high definition content. These include high capacity NAND flash memory, small form factor hard disk drives, next generation CPUs, visual processing, and wireless and encryption technologies. The company expects to make forthcoming announcements around strategic progress in these convergence technologies.

Toshiba will begin to reduce shipments of HD DVD players and recorders to retail channels, aiming for cessation of these businesses by the end of March 2008. Toshiba also plans to end volume production of HD DVD disk drives for such applications as PCs and games in the same timeframe, yet will continue to make efforts to meet customer requirements. The company will continue to assess the position of notebook PCs with integrated HD DVD drives within the overall PC business relative to future market demand.

This decision will not impact on Toshiba's commitment to standard DVD, and the company will continue to market conventional DVD players and recorders. Toshiba intends to continue to contribute to the development of the DVD industry, as a member of the DVD Forum, an international organization with some 200 member companies, committed to the discussion and defining of optimum optical disc formats for the consumer and the related industries.

Toshiba also intends to maintain collaborative relations with the companies who joined with Toshiba in working to build up the HD DVD market, including Universal Studios, Paramount Pictures, and DreamWorks Animation and major Japanese and European content providers on the entertainment side, as well as leaders in the IT industry, including Microsoft, Intel, and HP. Toshiba will study possible collaboration with these companies for future business opportunities, utilizing the many assets generated through the development of HD DVD.

Coincidentally:

http://kotaku.com/357925/hd+dvd-deathwatch-gamestop-edition

We've been tipped off by a number of GameStop employees that, commencing tomorrow, the company will no longer be accepting HD-DVD gear for trade-in. That means you won't be able to trade in your HD-DVD movies, and more importantly, you won't be able to get anything for that soon-to-be-useless 360 HD-DVD player, either. Sorry.
Edited by Hatchetforce
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Hold out Universal goes Bluray:

http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/news/show/...s_Goes_Blu/1483

Universal Studios Home Entertainment has officially announced that it will release its titles on Blu-ray.

Though details of the studio's transition away from HD DVD were still sketchy at press time, Universal Studios Home Entertainment President Craig Kornblau officially confirmed the move in a just issued statement:

"The path for widespread adoption of the next-generation platform has finally become clear. Universal will continue its aggressive efforts to broaden awareness for hi-def’s unparalleled offerings in interactivity and connectivity, at an increasingly affordable price. The emergence of a single, high-definition format is cause for consumers, as well as the entire entertainment industry, to celebrate. While Universal values the close partnership we have shared with Toshiba, it is time to turn our focus to releasing new and catalog titles on Blu-ray."

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follow the money they say...forgot where I read this...

"Sony BETAMAX failed because there were not enough porn movies in BETAMAX format. 39 Millions copieeesss of VHS porn were bought every year."

39 Millions perverts can't be wrong.

Please, if you ever read this somewhere else, and I may have misquoted, please forgive me. I kept it in a nut-shell. :whistle:

The porn industry initially chose HD DVD. The problem is the internet destroyed the power the porn industry had in the days of video tape. Now it is about the power of the game machine and it's trojan (pun intended) horse.

This is too funny. LOL, Ledanek jumps in with statistics in porn. Classic! Initially I thought that this post was a joke, that is until I saw that Hatchet responded to it.

I read somewhere in Gr.net that Ledanek was the porn king on this site. The king is certianly alive and well!

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follow the money they say...forgot where I read this...

"Sony BETAMAX failed because there were not enough porn movies in BETAMAX format. 39 Millions copieeesss of VHS porn were bought every year."

39 Millions perverts can't be wrong.

Please, if you ever read this somewhere else, and I may have misquoted, please forgive me. I kept it in a nut-shell. :whistle:

The porn industry initially chose HD DVD. The problem is the internet destroyed the power the porn industry had in the days of video tape. Now it is about the power of the game machine and it's trojan (pun intended) horse.

This is too funny. LOL, Ledanek jumps in with statistics in porn. Classic! Initially I thought that this post was a joke, that is until I saw that Hatchet responded to it.

I read somewhere in Gr.net that Ledanek was the porn king on this site. The king is certianly alive and well!

I just represent my industry very well :whistle:

When I did first read about the Betamax, I digged deep in my teen years, when we did have the first Betamax in our street, and I was having trouble renting porn on Beta. :(

I guess, now I just making up for the time lost. :whistle:

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I've said a lot of times that I think Blu-ray for gaming is overhyped for videogames. And every programmer or game artist i know could not only agree, but give a much better argument.

However, sony's misleading hype about it for their game system, better marketing, and frankly a better name, seem to have lead it to a pretty decisive victory as a video format.

Now, let's just wait for sony's BS about how more bluray movies = better videogames, and you should buy a dozen ps3s.

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I think the big problem was that the studios didn't want people to play movies from one place in another. Blu-Ray is regionalized just like current DVDs are.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc#_note-bluraystats

This arrangement places the countries of the major Blu-ray manufacturers (Japan, Korea, Malaysia) in the same region as the U.S., thus ensuring early releases of U.S. content to those markets. As of early 2008, about two-thirds of all released discs were region-free.

I wasn't aware of that arrangement. They source it here:

http://www.blu-raystats.com/

Which is actually a pretty good site for states. You can pull up the particular movies and have a look at the tech data.

I really like the picture you get from Bluray. HD DVD was similar but Sony had the trojan horse with the PS3. With over 10.5 million units sold it did make a difference. If anything it shoulf prove gamers are a force with which to be reckoned. 2008 should be a banner year for games as we see more of the Bluray advantage in gaming. If you get a chance to play Uncharted WK you will get a kick out of the gun battles. John picked up a PS3 and he has been having a blast. Here is ND talkinmg about Bluray:

http://arstechnica.com/journals/thumbs.ars...stophe-balestra

In terms of Blu-Ray, we just couldn’t have made Uncharted without it; with Uncharted we have almost filled it (91 percent). We're also using the hard drive to pre-cache data from the Blu-Ray disc. That allows us to stream up to 12 streams for sound, load level data super fast and more importantly to stream textures constantly to guarantee high-res quality on the screen.

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I really think that MS should start offering a BR player as the standard format in their 360s. People looking for a cheap BR player would certianly gobble up a $350 Xbox 360s at a voracious rate. MS might take a serious hit in the short run, but I really believe that in the long run a move like this would be smart. MS is a very big company, and if they don't make some kind of bold move here the PS3 will simply pass it up.

Now before the naysayers start chiming in, I am not saying that the 360 will disappear, I am just saying that the PS3 will capture a larger portion of the console sales.

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The deals on the HD dvd players are starting to hit the retail stores and they are really nice. Lowest I've seen now is a $80 player at costco. They come with two dvd's in the box and 5 more through mail in offer.

I will be keeping an eye on the deals, and I think I'm going to jump on one of them. $80 for the best upconverting dvd player on the market is a sweet deal.

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I really think that MS should start offering a BR player as the standard format in their 360s. People looking for a cheap BR player would certianly gobble up a $350 Xbox 360s at a voracious rate. MS might take a serious hit in the short run, but I really believe that in the long run a move like this would be smart. MS is a very big company, and if they don't make some kind of bold move here the PS3 will simply pass it up.

Now before the naysayers start chiming in, I am not saying that the 360 will disappear, I am just saying that the PS3 will capture a larger portion of the console sales.

The problem is an addon Bluray player for the 360 player won't come in cheap. Likely over $299. An internal mount 360 BR drive would put the price of the 360 easily beyond the PS3.

Edited by Hatchetforce
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Expect more Blu-ray features -- and higher prices details how Blu-Ray will get more features, especially with Blue-Ray 2.0 that HD DVD already has, but will most likely cost more.

Tech normally gets cheaper not more expensive. They initially said the same thing about DVD players. Besides, the PS3 will not get more expensive, only cheaper and it is always upgradeable and one of the best Bluray players on the market.

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I really think that MS should start offering a BR player as the standard format in their 360s. People looking for a cheap BR player would certianly gobble up a $350 Xbox 360s at a voracious rate. MS might take a serious hit in the short run, but I really believe that in the long run a move like this would be smart. MS is a very big company, and if they don't make some kind of bold move here the PS3 will simply pass it up.

Now before the naysayers start chiming in, I am not saying that the 360 will disappear, I am just saying that the PS3 will capture a larger portion of the console sales.

The problem is an addon Bluray player for the 360 player won't come in cheap. Likely over $299. An internal mount 360 BR drive would put the price of the 360 easily beyond the PS3.

I know that would be the case, but I just believe that MS is in a desperate enough situation where they SHOULD put in a BR drive as standard and BITE the bullet. When I think gamer, the majority of people that come to mind are either kids, students, or young adults. I FIRMLY believe that many people will want to have a BR drive with their gaming platform, so what choice do they have? Now that BR is the standard format, all of the people that want the simplicity of one system handling all their needs will turn to the PS3.

MS has to take this one in the shorts, add a BR drive, keep the price the same, BITE the bullet, and keep the slim advantage that they currently have. Not to mention the podcast that you posted a link to that covered the issues of devs that will put out PS3 exclusives that cannot be handled by the 360s limited format. I say MS HAS to take the loss now so that they do not end up even worse off down the road.

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I really think that MS should start offering a BR player as the standard format in their 360s. People looking for a cheap BR player would certianly gobble up a $350 Xbox 360s at a voracious rate. MS might take a serious hit in the short run, but I really believe that in the long run a move like this would be smart. MS is a very big company, and if they don't make some kind of bold move here the PS3 will simply pass it up.

Now before the naysayers start chiming in, I am not saying that the 360 will disappear, I am just saying that the PS3 will capture a larger portion of the console sales.

The problem is an addon Bluray player for the 360 player won't come in cheap. Likely over $299. An internal mount 360 BR drive would put the price of the 360 easily beyond the PS3.

I know that would be the case, but I just believe that MS is in a desperate enough situation where they SHOULD put in a BR drive as standard and BITE the bullet. When I think gamer, the majority of people that come to mind are either kids, students, or young adults. I FIRMLY believe that many people will want to have a BR drive with their gaming platform, so what choice do they have? Now that BR is the standard format, all of the people that want the simplicity of one system handling all their needs will turn to the PS3.

MS has to take this one in the shorts, add a BR drive, keep the price the same, BITE the bullet, and keep the slim advantage that they currently have. Not to mention the podcast that you posted a link to that covered the issues of devs that will put out PS3 exclusives that cannot be handled by the 360s limited format. I say MS HAS to take the loss now so that they do not end up even worse off down the road.

The problem with putting an internal drive in the 360 is how many people are going to get one? First look at the price. Biting the bullet is too much when a company already ate 1 billion dollars. And signs are pointing to the fact that may not have been enough to cover warranties. Remember, MS made no money on the first Xbox. This gen has to recomp all of that, all of the R&D costs for Xbox and the 360, all of the hardware costs, all of the investments and then start to turn a profit. They can't eat the money for the BR drive too.

Ask yourself how many people would get a 360 with a BR drive? Most would just say screw it, I am going to get a PS3 and then I can have both.

I frankly think MS won't do as bad this gen as last but they are headed for 3rd place. As for next gen, they are in a very very bad place. If they don't put a BR drive in the next machine they are screwed. If they do, well they are paying for it and they are screwed.

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Ask yourself how many people would get a 360 with a BR drive? Most would just say screw it, I am going to get a PS3 and then I can have both.

I frankly think MS won't do as bad this gen as last but they are headed for 3rd place. As for next gen, they are in a very very bad place. If they don't put a BR drive in the next machine they are screwed. If they do, well they are paying for it and they are screwed.

This is where MS could offer a trade in program for current 360 owners, and offer a new system for a small fee, say $100? I know what you are saying in regard to MS losing so much money on the consoles, but I still say that they should go for it now. I only say this because MS earns many times more than Sony does as a company, so if they really want this bad enough, then they will have to pay now or pay for it later by having a smaller fanbase when the next wave of consoles hits the market.

I just think this is important, because you might be an informed gamer, gather all the news, and think things through objectively, but when the large portion of gamers tend to be somewhat young, biases and brand loyalty tends to blind people. The next console battle will have MS coming into the ring as the underdog in sales, product quality, product performance, game titles, etc... I just see this as being too much to overcome.

Nintendo was 3rd place last time around, but they also had very unique exclusive titles that focused on a very specific audience. The 360 does not have that. It is nothing more than a lowend PS3, and with games costing just as much as PS3 games, and the PS3 now reduced in price, what advantage does the 360 offer? There is nothing unique about the 360 or its games, so unlike the Nintendo Game Cube, the 360 has nothing to really set itself apart from the competition.

I really think that other than rabid MS fans, there really won't be a client base for the 360. I would venture to say that the 360 is already sunk, and unless MS does something very bold, the 360 will end up becoming the three-legged dog in this race.

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You named a key issue. If you look at the buying public when it comes to games, using the numbers rather than perceptions, it isn't the 12-16 year old gamers that are doing most of the buying. That buying power comes from an older crowd according to the survey figures. I think the older buying crowd is going to be more objective and less likely to be fooled by this entire matter. In fact only a few hardcore fans and just about all of the press have been fooled by the PS3/360 sales war figures.

People have their past stable of 360 games but they already have a 360 on which to play them. Why buy a new one when I can already play that game on my current 360. In fact the local Gamestop here is seeing increasing numbers of 360s traded in on PS3s. Instead I think people will opt for a PS3 rather than a BR drive equipeped 360, even with a discount.

Gears 2 is the only big thing MS has coming down the pike this year. Sony has quite an array of offerings. I liked Gears of War but honestly it was linear as hell. I will pick up HALO Wars. But HALO Wars doesn't qualify as a shaker because strategy games just don't move consoles. Gears 2 time frame is also up against two very diverse titles to be released at the same time. First is Killzone 2. Based on how another year has likely allowed the game to evolve more and what Seb has been telling us I don't think there is going to be much of a contest there. Gears 2 is going to look a little better but what else? Anyone that has looked at Killzone 2 is going to have their jaw dropped. This is Sony's flagship and I don't think we are going to see missteps here.

At the same time MS is going to have Little Big Planet on the PS3 tossed at them. This is a title that is going to suck people in. A lot of people from a different crowd than your typical shooter. It is one of those games people fall in love with on the level of a Mario or a Zelda. Those are just two games during that time frame as Gears 2 and there are several more. This year isn't last year. Or actually it is only moreso since the truth came out the other day that the PS3 actually sold faster than the 360 during the same first 14 months of it's life. Talk about an incredible smear campaign that fooled everyone. And I do mean incredible.

Games like Uncharted were not nominated for anything. That is really sad. John Sonedecker picked up a PS3 the other day and grabbed a copy of Uncharted as well. Ask him what he thinks about Uncharted. Then there was Heavenly Sword. The big slam on HS was the brevity. I kept seeing people saying it was a 7 hour title. Did these people actually play the game? Everyone is aware I like HALO. Alot. But playing HALO on Heroic alone I beat that game 3 hours faster than I beat Heavenly Sword. I know, I tracked the time. And if any game last year had a movie worthy story and a true movie presentation it was HS. Yet the remarkable technology used in the most wrenching cutscenes was totally ignored. Yes I have Bioshock. I think I have completed the first level.

What I am getting at, and one or two writers had the guts to remark on it, there was almost a concerted effort to damn the PS3 and every major title it released last year. The effort wasn't enough as the PS3 outsold the 360 worldwide in 2007. And this in a year when publications like that useless rag EGM would have you believe the PS3 had no games. Look at the recent EGM cover. 2007 was a crappy year for the PS3? Look at what they (EGM)did last March. EGM had a big picture of a PS3 with a tomato slammed against it on the cover. One question. Was there ever a cover of EGM with a 360 and a big RROD on it? Which has cost consumers the most angst? Ask these people that have been shafted by the DRM issue. I am one of them.

Month before last EGM reviewed Haze. Yes, you read that correctly. They didn't preview it, they reviewed it. In the review section is a place for games that came in too late or were too crappy to be reviewed. Over the space of a few paragraphs they say that Haze has "great core gameplay but it is hobbled with problems, blah blah, blah". Oh by the way this isn't a final build. It is at least 6 -8 months away from gold status. What? You just spent several lines in the review section convincing me it was going to have problems then you say that? Sorry I already feel bad about it. And it is listed as a review in the review section. This is the consistent crap that Sony has been batting against. Don't tell me it wasn't intentional. I just want remarks fair and honest. I have little sympathy for that crybaby editor Dan Hsu at 1up (He was editing EGM) and all his caterwalling over companies like Sony Sports cutting off EGMs access to preview copies and final builds. But I do indeed digress. My point is even with all the attacks and negative press Sony managed to outsell the 360. Now journalists are at least becoming a bit more honest. I think the days of it being stylish to attack Sony are fading.

For months all we have heard is how PS3 sales were dismal, how the PS3 and Sony were in trouble. And now I have to look at journalists everywhere and call them the lying, scare tactic pieces of crap they are because the fact is PS3 sales were actually zooming and Sony has hit theit 10.5 mil mark 4 months ahead of projections. Think about it. The PS3 was selling faster than the 360 did in it's early life (first 14 months). Yet the public bought a big fat lie. Everyone should feel a litle duped. I just don't think the 360 even with a new drive is going to slow the gathering PS3 momentum. As I said, if you look at releases it isn't just 2 games that MS has coming at them from Sony. On top of that you have technology biting MS in the ass. Far Cry 2 on the PS3 will use continual streaming, which can't be done without an HDD, in order to provide a seemless world. They won't be able to offer the same feature on the 360.

Despite the narrowminded non-forward thinking view of some people, Bluray in gaming makes a difference. Ask the guys at Naughty Dog if they could have made Uncharted without BR. Of course there is a turd here and there that will tell you it (BR) has no impact but consider the source of people that claim to know more than the guys that made the game. Consider the source when Seb Downey reveals that the single demo level of Killzone 2 a E3 last year contained over 2 GBs of data. But they are making the games, what do they know. This doesn't even account for the the ear juice that is uncompressed audio. As developers begin to offer equal teams or even more, use the PS3 as the lead platform, the tables are going to roll over on MS.

I understand what you are saying about MS biting the bullet now. But everytime in the past MS has been loathe to do this. They only offered the extended warranty that cost them a billion when their were rumblings about intervention by the Federal Trade Commision that would have forced a recall of all Xbox 360s. They didn't offer the warranty because it was 'the right thing'. Anyone that knows MS knows this is their way. It is Sony's way too. And Nintendo.

MS isn't going to offer the drive though. There was a better chance they were going to put the HD DVD drive in the 360. In fact there were rumors, very strong supported rumors that it was going to happen and be announced at CES but was suddenly yanked when Warner made their announcement at CES about Bluray exclusivity. MS is going to push downloads even harder but they are hobbled by poor HDD offerings and the fact in this age of HD movies the downloads are not true HD and you can see it. MS is going to continue down this digital download road now but they are going to but heads with insufficient technology for the next 5 years or more.

At this point I think the BR drive will cost MS more money than it would make and despite being a big corporation their investors are going to reach a point where they won't keep swallowing the losses. Now they have given up Bungie and let Bioware exclusivity slip away. They have made every wrong move possible. I realy don't think a BR drive in any form is coming to the 360. And even if it were it won't save them.

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I realy don't think a BR drive in any form is coming to the 360. And even if it were it won't save them.

Just reading those words actually hurt.

You wrote some harsh things about the 360, but I also think that you were one of the first ones to buy a 360 on this forum. You have mentioned several times that you are a huge Halo fan, enjoyed each title, and even read some novels (I did not even know there were Halo novels). Anyway, I take your opinions on the 360 very seriously as you really seemed to enjoy a lot of MS products, and expressed a lot of support for the 360 early on. You were even one of the naysayers that downed the PS3, so seeing this type of turnaround in your opinion, reading your links, and watching that podcast were quite an eyeopener to me.

I just do not see how MS can continue down this path and hope to even remain in business, much less be competitive. What do you think the market share for the 360 will be in the coming years? I just cannot see MS being competitive with the current product. If they do simply stay on track with the 360 as it is, the only thing I could see helping to sell the system is competing with the Wii for price. Maybe a $250 price tag could save them?

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Thanks for the comments. Let me confirm I am a huge HALO fan. And as a story the HALO novels are remarkable science fiction. Extremely well written and engrossing tales about the best warriors and the last hope for the human race.

I preordered my 360 so fast I beat the local EB Games Manager onto the reserve list and it was his store. I have every HALO game and even the PC duplicates. Hats, coats, bags, shirts, etc. And there are also several other hallmark titles on the 360.

I supported the original Xbox too losing two to the dreaded Thompson Drive issue. I didn't support it over the PS2 but rather ran about equal in my positives and negatives on both consoles. I have been through repair hell going through multiple 360s though, getting burnt out of 2 months of LIVE, never getting reimbursed on the $129 grandfather agreement, and losing some downloads due to DRM when you change 360s. I eventually wound up with a HALO 360. And even that new console had a play and charge kit broken out of the box.

I was extremely skeptical of the PS3 and Bluray when it came out. I was. Every programmer I respected said that they won't get synchronicity to work on that machine. They did. Then detractors stated the BR drive streams too slow. It doesn't. Plenty of developers have taken advantage of this. Some haven't. Capcom is a recent example. They failed to do what other devs have done and because of that I am hardly inclined to blame the platform. They are streaming environments in a big way on the PS3 with Far Cry 2.

I agree with you totally. On their present course MS may score a few things like DLC for GTA IV but that is about it. That iceberg is looming out of the darkness and it is actually moving toward them. Is the DLC going to hit as soon as GTA IV launches? If it does that is a shame because it should have been on the disc ...but there wasn't room.

Is it free? It had better be because as I stated it should have been on the disc... but there wasn't room. Rockstar stated that GTA IV had to be cut back on both consoles because the 360 was limited by DVD9. To anyone that doesn't think BR is necessary that in and of itself is proof. If the DLC doesn't launch until June, how many PS3 owners are going to be looking at that during the same month that MGS4 and MGO launch?

Shortly after that is E3 and we all know what the big story there will be.

I do enjoy many MS products. I purchased Vista Ultimate and it is great for everything except games. I purchased a HALO Zune as well. I use Streets and Trips, Office 2007, and a host of other software from them.

I think a $250 price tag would definitely help sales. The only unkown factor is what will the competitor be offering? Things are looking like Sony won't be dropping the PS3 price soon though I would lay odds on a cut by Christmas. I think we will also see and introduction of the PS3 160GB model. By E3 Sony will likely announce their plans for movie and music DL. And Sony has the advantage in that they actually own huge studios in both of those areas.

MS is going to have a dwindling market share as I don't think Gears of War 2 will float the 360. This fall as it launches against the likes of Killzone 2 and Little Big Planet, MS is also up against another major issue. That issue is big, huge in the Playstation community. Because it has been out of the public eye people have forgotten about it. It's a sequel of sorts. SOCOM Confrontation. SOCOM on the PS2 saw more people online in that one game than all the people on Xbox live combined. It is wildly popular and will drive a lot of SOCOMers to finally purchase a PS3. People outside the SOCOM community have no idea how big and important a franchise SOCOM is. And it is some of the coolest and most teamwork demanding MP I have ever seen. There isn't hardly a game around that causes teams to work together as much as SOCOM. We'll get a very in depth look at E3 and it is going to gain a lot of momentum.

Things just don't look good for MS. Next gen they are in an impossible position. They can ill afford to ignore the next gen movie format - BR, and digital downloads will not be supported by sufficient bandwidth or industry standards to make them viable for games and movie ownership. For many people, trading a game after playing is important. How do you trade a digital download? How do you buy a used one at a cheaper price. Downloads sound good at first, but except for a handfull of places worlwide the infrastucture won't support the bandwidth necessary for ownership of a massive digital library online. Not even in 5 years. And it screws the gamer in his quest to barter and buy used titles. Something to think about.

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Things just don't look good for MS. Next gen they are in an impossible position. They can ill afford to ignore the next gen movie format - BR, and digital downloads will not be supported by sufficient bandwidth or industry standards to make them viable for games and movie ownership. For many people, trading a game after playing is important. How do you trade a digital download? How do you buy a used one at a cheaper price. Downloads sound good at first, but except for a handfull of places worlwide the infrastucture won't support the bandwidth necessary for ownership of a massive digital library online. Not even in 5 years. And it screws the gamer in his quest to barter and buy used titles. Something to think about.

I know that downloads would be an absolute negative for me. When I think of games like GR, sure it is easy to run through the campaign again if you lost your saves on a drive, but a game like OFP? GR may only take 4-5 hours, but OFP on the Xbox on Mercenary mode takes days. I would be royaly ticked if I not only lost saves to difficult games like OFP, but to have lost downloads?

I for one am definitely not on board with MS regarding the future of downloads. With MS heading the direction that it is, I think I may sit and wait a little longer before I even consider picking up a 360. I still have my old Xbox for now, and if worse comes to worse, I can go back to the PC for gaming.

Anyway, I have to agree that buying AND selling does seem to be the wave of the near future. The stacks of used 360 games at the local EBGames certainly is a testament to this. I know that I have personally sold about a third of all the games that I have bought. Some games I sold on account of what I would consider poor gameplay, but some others like the first SC and Pandora Tomorrow that I loved, but did not feel that they had much replay value.

I bought my Xbox four years ago, and it has run flawlessly. I have to say that the positive experience that I had with the Xbox is great, but looking at the future of the 360 is not looking too promising. MS really seemed to make a lot of progress with the first Xbox, it is not an easy task taking on a company like Sony, but despite the difficulties, it seemed like the first Xbox did have a very good reputation in the market. I still consider the first Xbox to be a huge success. Even considering how hostile the Japanese market is toward American products, the Xbox still managed to garner some respect among the tough crowd. With the PS3 offering more to the consumer, this closed and hostile market will only shut its doors even tighter, and any ground that MS had a stronger foothold on in other countries now seems to be ripe for Sony to take.

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