Are you interested in GR:AW3?

[mwgfghost]

Yeah that is true forrester but it's really hard to say who broke it off when it's two companies involved with a game. You could blame Ubi from screwing over PC gamers but you could blame GRIN for going off to make another game. I think we all forgot something. Remember before the game even came out of just as it came out, we heard that story that there would only be two months or so to patch it? How do we know they didn't star working on Bionic Commando then? But I'm not just blaming GRIN they did all they could. Ubi just shafted us big time. And everybody's talkin about COD4 but I liked the WW2 series and I think they took the wrong approach with COD4 cause you're so limited with your units. Either U.S. Marines or British SAS. Or whatever the bad guys were. Kinda wish they would've put more units in to make it a little more epic. Like Army Rangers, Navy SEALs, etc. Only reason I came back to GRAW 2 is cause it gives me something to play when my friend's at work. When he gets home, we play Hellgate. He's not gonna play either GRAW cause he said that's what led him to almost never wanna play a PC game again. He was really hoping to get the Medic character cause that's what he's played as in other games and he really liked it. And we both loved the first person insertions. I don't think anybody will buy another GR game made by Ubi because of their track record with PC gamers. I really don't know what they have against us. Wish RSE could have a PC and console team working on two different games. Bring back more than 4 people with [GR] modes, make it so people can choose between ACUs, ABUs, DCUs, MARPAT(desert, woodland, and urban patterns) and Multicam, bring back all the old rifles and keep the new ones. Except for the PR-C and M8. Make the M99 unshootable on the run and inaccurate while standing, more accurate when crouched, and very accurate when prone. Grenade Launchers...sorry but they're meant for doing exactly what they do in the game. First person insertions in campaign mode with a realistic storyline and enemy. Not one we could conquer in less than a week. And while you're at it, go ahead and discover the body of Jimmy Hoffa cause we know none of that will probably never happen and if us PC gamers get another GR title from Ubi, it will probably be 3rd person.

[Cell]

and if us PC gamers get another GR title from Ubi, it will probably be 3rd person.

And there would be dusty copies of GRAW3 all over the world..sitting on store shelves. Any 3rd person inclusion at all in a PC version of GR would just be platform suicide....I doubt they could be that negligent. Might as well put blank cd's in the case. No one would ever know.

[dirtbag]

I also am done,

I played all the original GR games and enjoyed them. Both Graw 1 & 2 were ok, if a little weak in the grand sense of tactical shooters. But with every game UBI has released lately the support has been non existent on the PC side. I would not be surprised if UBI stopped PC sales entirely, given the poor job they are doing.

[Nutlink]

nutlink don't forget the [GR] COOP love mate.

Both games had horrible coop (GRAW 1 campaign coop too linear, lack of objectives in [GR] Coop, while GRAW 2 just didn't have any maps and a bug ridden campaign coop

i thought ever since the GRAW1 days that the game engine was not up to the task. seems I'm right.

It isn't the engine, it's the lack of content and the quality of the content. This game does do a lot right. Every other game allows you to shoot what you see. At least in GRAW you were limited to what your rifles barrel was pointed at rather than shooting from the eyes. The body awareness was done rather well, the controls were relatively solid, graphically the game was fantastic, and the audio was superb. The only thing I think you might be thinking about with the engine would be the draw distance, and even then that isn't limited by the engine. In GRAW 1 I managed to make a mod that allowed a 250m draw distance with my limited knowledge of the engine. I believe that was an artificial limit by the devs because the game is already hard enough on most computers.

[HSantal']

Nope.

They cranked out 2 quick games, pocketed their money and buggered off.

GRAW2 was supposed to be an improvement over 1 but almost all of us that

bought the game use it as a coaster.

Talk is cheap. Following through is not.

[Papa6]

to add to my dissatisfaction, I justgot off of a server. i was on the crashsite map. i was by the boat house laying down behind a boat.

now, i had a clear shot. a guy was right in front of me, had no idea that i was there. but wouldn't you know, the stupid idiotic collision extended so far out from the boat that i had to get up and move and in the mean time he killed me. emtpied an entire mag into the collision when my sights were clear as a clean glass of water.

people or devs are known by their fruits, crap development leads to crap impression and an enduring bad impression this is turning out to be.

[mwgfghost]

Yeah I agree with Nutlink and dirtbag. Both games were pretty nice IMO but GRAW 2 just seemed a little too easy. Not sure if it was the new weapons or what but if just didn't feel the same. And there really was no support for 2. I think my friend's a little extreme saying it's what made him almost stop playing PC games. Cause he would have no entertainment what-so-ever. I could live without the medic cause me and him did alright in the first game without one. But they built this game up to be so great and then you find out all the great stuff is what the console gamers are getting. And then it's like "This is what your game looks like" Oh great thanx.(sarcasm) But GRAW 2 seems like they started over from scratch, added some new weapons and camo, and a few cool features and took out most of the good ones. Either we're getting no game at all or it's gonna be even worse(if that's even possible) than GRAW 2. I wish there would have been a tool to make bundling Brettzies' and Snow's weapons mods easy. Cause they're both so awesome but you gotta choose which one you like best and they're all that have really kept me playing.

[FI_FlimFlam]

@ nutlink

I disagree. The game engine has plenty of sizable issues. Especially when you compare it to other top end engines.

For the player - draw distance limitations, resource usage and high end requirements (granted that is becoming less of an issue as more time rolls by but look at COD4 and Crysis and how people with lower spec rigs can play it acceptably), connectivity and netcode issues, AC that spazzes out and kicks sometimes randomly, server brower listing servers is off and doesn't filter or list mods in a coherent way, mod "activation" is archaic and VERY difficult for non-technical users, no autodownload for maps, some gamemodes are "broken" according to some players (Campaign COOP for example).

For the server host: No easy kit or weapon restrictions, mods are difficult and confusing to implement and get players to play on your server, screenshots do not work fully, no server logging (screenshot logs do not count I'm speaking of other information), low player retention because there is no autodownload to push custom maps to clients, AC is flakey and players still get random kicks as well as synch issues with it and it's not updated regularly...

General design issues: Bundle system is a MESS. Creates map bloat and increased loading times which can also create client synch issues on modded servers or large custom maps - this forces the client to manually rotate maps to keep loading times down and to allieviate synch issues if they have a large number of maps loaded. If the autodownload is ever provided, the bundle system forces a complete game restart after download because it cannot be added to the "loaded" bundles in memory.

Maps and Mods - difficult to make custom maps and VERY difficult to make custom content. Not impossible but if it were easier, you would see much more content like from UE engine. Crytek's sandbox is going to be very easy to use from the looks of it and they will have LOADS of content from it as a result.

Those are just a few I quickly came up with without much thought. They are also the same ones many people have complained about since GRAW1 and nothing has changed.

I can't fault GRIN for not being allowed to patch or only being allowed to make a few patches. I can fault them for their design decisions on their game engine however. I think they tried and did an alright job, but unless they radically change their engine I won't be purchasing another one of their multiplayer titles because it's really too much of a headache to manage ... er I mean "play" their games as a result.

Edited November 26, 2007 by FI_FlimFlam

[mwgfghost]

Yeah I'd have to agree with that. A lot of times I could only see muzzle flashes in COOP and I'd be getting hit but I couldn't shoot them because of the draw distance. My friend would always say "I love how guys just appear out of nowhere and start shooting before you have a chance to see them" I'm still not giving in to Crysis cause the storyline's just whack. Not that this one's 100% believable but I dunno. Just think I could see myself getting tired of it faster than I did with GRAW and GRAW2

[deco147]

Most of the people who voted “No. Been there, done that†will probably buy GRAW3 if it was made!

The GRAW series is not perfect, but the series is damn better than anything else on the market.

Instead of making GRAW3 why not make a HUGE [and I mean HUGE] multiplayer expansion pack for GRAW2?

[Papa6]

Most of the people who voted “No. Been there, done that†will probably buy GRAW3 if it was made!

The GRAW series is not perfect, but the series is damn better than anything else on the market.

Instead of making GRAW3 why not make a HUGE [and I mean HUGE] multiplayer expansion pack for GRAW2?

well adding an expansion pack is like adding more crap to the crap kettle. you know that white spot on the top of chicken crap? that's chicken crap too.

But I always said that the draw distance was an issue and was blatantly stupid. but what gets me is, some think it's not Grin's fault. i prefer to disagree as they built the game and could've very well changed the draw distance when they developed GRAW2. Ubisoft wouldn't have stopped that. the content and other things were controlled by UBISOFT such as the gamespy thing as ubisoft had/has a contract with gamespy.

but issues that are carried over from one sequel to the other without addressing it is pure lack of care on Grin's part as well.

Edited November 26, 2007 by Papa6

[deco147]

“well adding an expansion pack is like adding more crap to the crap kettle. you know that white spot on the top of chicken crap? that's chicken crap too.â€

GRAW2 has faults but to call it ‘crap’ is ludicrous!

Why do you automatically assume that a multiplayer expansion pack would be ‘crap’?

Edited November 26, 2007 by deco147

[bigcat75]

But I always said that the draw distance was an issue and was blatantly stupid. but what gets me is, some think it's not Grin's fault. i prefer to disagree as they built the game and could've very well changed the draw distance when they developed GRAW2.

What gets me is that people who don't blame GRIN (like me) won't buy a graw3 because "graw" is not the type of game GR should be, which is easily the most legitimate complaint of all, while other people complain about ............draw distance?!!

Draw distance?!! LOL

I don't play MP so there are issues I'm not aware of to be sure, but I don't consider graw and graw2 crap, per se. My reason for not buying GRAW2 (got it free) and having no interest in a GRAW3 is that the game loses too much GR gameplay and feel with all that future soldier gizmology.

Oh, and I voted "no" although I don't like the tag "been there done that". That is not my reason. After all, I could say been there done that in reference to GR, but I'd buy an upgraded version of THAT in a heartbeat, or better yet, a properly evolved addition to the series, not another departure as we have now.

Edited November 26, 2007 by bigcat75

[bigcat75]

For the player - draw distance limitations, resource usage and high end requirements (granted that is becoming less of an issue as more time rolls by but look at COD4 and Crysis and how people with lower spec rigs can play it acceptably).....

That, my friend, is because COD4 is so utterly scripted and linear there is practically NO strain on the CPU at all. Very simply, the CPU is not being tasked to compute and process anything but geometry. That's why games that lean toward simulation always more or less have graphics that leave something to be desired, because there has to be some compromise to allow the CPU to process A.I, environments, etc etc.

[mwgfghost]

Cause it probably would be. I mean to ask for a HUGE expansion is like asking a 200 pound midget to skate up an icy hill with boulders constantly falling towards him. I think the point Papa was trying to make is if GRIN hasn't learned from their mistakes with GRAW 1, what makes you think they're gonna correct em in GRAW 3 if they even decide to make it? And to think all the nay sayers would buy GRAW 3 if it was released is like that one employee at McDonalds or any other crappy job saying "Yeah whatever you say you're leaving for good but you'll be back" I make it a point to prove those people wrong and so does my friend. And to anybody who has ever worked at McDonalds, so have I so don't be offended by that cause I know what it's like. I agree the game's not crap. If I hated it as much as my friend, I wouldn't be playing it right now. And the only reason I am playing it is cause I love the weapons and the weapons mods in the game. But it is like GRIN took a step back with GRAW 2. If they would've kept all the features from GRAW and just added the weapons, new cross com feature(giving men orders through their cross com) and the ACUs, I think there would be more people playing. I'm not saying there would be a lot cause I know everybody was pulling for it to go back to [GR]. But I know my friend would still be playin it and we wouldn't need Hellgate and others wouldn't need Crysis or COD4. And another thing they should do is update the draw distance cause even Joint Operations had a further draw distance than this. Yeah the graphics engine for that game sux but that's just one company with that game. This game had Ubi and GRIN. But I think you're wrong to say all of us nay(however u spell that word) sayers would buy GRAW 3. I'd get all the answers I could about the game before buying it. Wait atleast a month before buying it. Wait until people have played it and beaten it and also wait for the first patch to see if it fixed anything important before I bought another Ubi-infested addition to the Ghost Recon series.

[doubletap]

For the player - draw distance limitations, resource usage and high end requirements (granted that is becoming less of an issue as more time rolls by but look at COD4 and Crysis and how people with lower spec rigs can play it acceptably).....

That, my friend, is because COD4 is so utterly scripted and linear there is practically NO strain on the CPU at all. Very simply, the CPU is not being tasked to compute and process anything but geometry. That's why games that lean toward simulation always more or less have graphics that leave something to be desired, because there has to be some compromise to allow the CPU to process A.I, environments, etc etc.

Exactly. It's about time someone pointed that out. You can be sure no game reviewer ever will, those clueless dolts.

Edited November 27, 2007 by doubletap

[Papa6]

But I always said that the draw distance was an issue and was blatantly stupid. but what gets me is, some think it's not Grin's fault. i prefer to disagree as they built the game and could've very well changed the draw distance when they developed GRAW2.

What gets me is that people who don't blame GRIN (like me) won't buy a graw3 because "graw" is not the type of game GR should be, which is easily the most legitimate complaint of all, while other people complain about ............draw distance?!!

Draw distance?!! LOL

I don't play MP so there are issues I'm not aware of to be sure, but I don't consider graw and graw2 crap, per se. My reason for not buying GRAW2 (got it free) and having no interest in a GRAW3 is that the game loses too much GR gameplay and feel with all that future soldier gizmology.

Oh, and I voted "no" although I don't like the tag "been there done that". That is not my reason. After all, I could say been there done that in reference to GR, but I'd buy an upgraded version of THAT in a heartbeat, or better yet, a properly evolved addition to the series, not another departure as we have now.

yeah just that. think about it. you're being shot at and can't see anyone because the limit of view distance hides the bad guy. now, you're a sniper we'll say and a rifleman in coop nails you well outside of the draw distance. some have said here being able to see only the muzzle flash but no body at all just the flash. now, one learns to shoot at the muzzle flash but what enjoyment is there if this is tilted towards the absurd.

[Tri_Tard]

id bee interested if it either:

A.) brought a whole new, improved, and fun to play experience but keeps its realism

B.)goes back to the [GR] gameplay style

i didnt like GRAW or GRAW2 tht much. it just seemed like the game was missing a lot of features. sure the weapon feel was great compared to games such as BF2 but there just werent enough weapons or any new features really besides the "cross com 2.0". if they decide to listen to their customers (unlike EA/DICE) they will hopefully do a lot of things people want done to the series. maybe even add a customize your character feature?

Edited November 27, 2007 by Tri_Tard

[C9.Constantine]

According to what I see in the current vote results;

I say making GR:AW 3 would be a waste of time and money.

To be really honest, I wonder if Ubi/Grin made any money on the PC version of GR:AW 2 -> I doubt it tbh

[NYR_32]

If it is made by GRIN, no. If it is made by RSE, yes.

[kretzj]

If it is made by GRIN, no. If it is made by RSE, yes.

Hey NYR.... question: Do you worry about RSE and their recent trend toward console games, or do you think RSE still has the PC-gaming chops necessary to pull off a new Ghost Recon?

IF RSE could step up to the PC plate and not make a new GR game a console port, I would agree with your vote. I know for certain a GRiN GRAW3 will not get my $$$.

I'd really be interested to hear what you think of RSE's PC skills these days... I'm hoping you know something.

-John K.

[Guest]

people or devs are known by their fruits, crap development leads to crap impression and an enduring bad impression this is turning out to be.

Which is why I laughed so hard when I read about the new bionic commando game. "The update comes with a new story, too, ditching the nameless hero from the original in favor of "technologically enhanced agent" Nathan Spencer"

Fool me once....

[mwgfghost]

I agree with Tri ###### on the customize your character. Add ALL camo types being used in today's wars. All you need for U.S. is ABUs, ACUs, all 3 MARPATs, Multicam, and maybe DCUs and BDUs. Euros gotta chip in cause I only know the British desert camo that looks similar to desert tiger stripe. And Kretz has a good point with RSE. We can't put all our trust in RSE because they've been working on consoles for quite some time now. Can't put our full trust in em but we'll trust em as much as we can. Regardless of who makes the next game, I'm not relying on a demo to buy it. Gonna go buy other people's opinions, gameplay videos, features and weapons lists, and the first patch. The only time I've played either of these games MP was in the MP demo for GRAW 2. Other than that, I only play SP and COOP. Sadly to say, I wouldn't buy it if it was made by GRIN either. They tried but they fell short of the goal. And I agree that draw distance isn't the biggest problem. But it is a factor and it is worth complaining about cause I was seeing those muzzle flashes in SP and COOP and not being able to shoot back. There's a lot of complaints but I've told em all before so yeah. I just wish RSE would come back to PC and be like screw you guys I'm makin Ghost Recon 2...PC style ooooowww!!!(Who song from CSI Miami)

[NYR_32]

Hey NYR.... question: Do you worry about RSE and their recent trend toward console games, or do you think RSE still has the PC-gaming chops necessary to pull off a new Ghost Recon?

IF RSE could step up to the PC plate and not make a new GR game a console port, I would agree with your vote. I know for certain a GRiN GRAW3 will not get my $$$.

IMO RSE's console version(s) have more of the spirit of the original than what GRIN did. I still get the feel with RSE's most recent work. GRIN's? Nope.

I wouldn't expect RSE of today to bring back the original, with better graphics, at this point. I've come to accept that the way the series is leaning is here to stay. I just think they can still offer a title that is more flexible in MP (ie. every gametype on every map), and better preforming than what GRIN has offered. If Red Storm is making the next Ghost Recon PC title, I very much would expect it to be a port, a word I'm not scared of anymore. Just give the game editor on the disk, a dedicated server and I'll be happy until Ground Branch kicks the door down.

I'd really be interested to hear what you think of RSE's PC skills these days... I'm hoping you know something.

I only know the same rumors that are floating around the forums. Your guess is as good as mine.

[ROCO*AFZ*]

But I always said that the draw distance was an issue and was blatantly stupid. but what gets me is, some think it's not Grin's fault. i prefer to disagree as they built the game and could've very well changed the draw distance when they developed GRAW2.

What gets me is that people who don't blame GRIN (like me) won't buy a graw3 because "graw" is not the type of game GR should be, which is easily the most legitimate complaint of all, while other people complain about ............draw distance?!!

Draw distance?!! LOL

I don't play MP so there are issues I'm not aware of to be sure, but I don't consider graw and graw2 crap, per se. My reason for not buying GRAW2 (got it free) and having no interest in a GRAW3 is that the game loses too much GR gameplay and feel with all that future soldier gizmology.

Oh, and I voted "no" although I don't like the tag "been there done that". That is not my reason. After all, I could say been there done that in reference to GR, but I'd buy an upgraded version of THAT in a heartbeat, or better yet, a properly evolved addition to the series, not another departure as we have now.

yeah just that. think about it. you're being shot at and can't see anyone because the limit of view distance hides the bad guy. now, you're a sniper we'll say and a rifleman in coop nails you well outside of the draw distance. some have said here being able to see only the muzzle flash but no body at all just the flash. now, one learns to shoot at the muzzle flash but what enjoyment is there if this is tilted towards the absurd.

It could have been maps the size of COD 4's to eliminate Draw distance... heck the snipers in that game only shoot 2 grids worth because that is the size of the map. Most are just over the size of arroya or in GRAW 1, hollow... but with 32 peeps running around. Also note COD 4 has no physics. You can't pop car tires nor break pots and such. that is why it runs well on low end pc's.

Seriously though i like Graw 2. It just needed a little polishing and it was golden. I would buy 3, but if it's not an expansion, i would hope it would have over 1 year of development...

I also like Grin. they have been way more open to the community then RSE ever was.Actually for that matter any other game developer. If you pm them with a real issue they actually respond like that night or next day.

Face it Guys, GR1 is dead and never will be again. GRAW 2 is a new game. In GRAW 1 i hated it because it wasn't GR1. Until i got over the fact and realized it was a fun "NEW" game. I got my moneys worth out of GRAW 1 and 2, even with some of the bugs.. i've had a blast.

What i would like to see though for short term is an expansion pack. Add some weather effects. Work a little more on the editor to get it just above GRAW 1 quality at least, add downloadable custom maps... and fix the server /reload command. give us some snow maps also. Part of what made GR1 special was each expansion was in a different location.