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Vista a bust, OEM's installing XP back on new PC's.


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And, last but never ever least, if XP isn't broke, why "fix" it with Vista? -- Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols

This is my big question. Windows XP runs fine. Why do we need to replace it with another operating system?

When I need more than 3.25 gigabytes of Random Access Memory I want Windows XP 64-bit, not Vista.

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Actually our vista sales have been good. Even schools buying the licensing as it can be used for installing XP (backward compatible) and upgrading to vista later. The same businesses that want xp wanted windows 2000 until around the time SP2 for xp was released. Reason why? Well until EVERY software app they rely on approves it, they won't move to it. This can be years after ANY os is released. and btw... the hospitals we support still don't support linux nor unix. Most of there servers are Windows NT or 2000 although this year they actually rolled out a few 2003. Why>? Medical software will not change O/S support until at least 3 years after an O/S release,

Anyway. Our Vista sales have been good for small businesses and home users. The Shadow copying has been a lifesaver (also offered on all windows 2003 users) since it has it built in.

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hey Roco, but the article stated that a big name OEM has (DELL) is offering XP again. you might be doing ok but Vista isn't lmao! :rofl:

And, last but never ever least, if XP isn't broke, why "fix" it with Vista? -- Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols

This is my big question. Windows XP runs fine. Why do we need to replace it with another operating system?

When I need more than 3.25 gigabytes of Random Access Memory I want Windows XP 64-bit, not Vista.

It's all about the money!

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hey Roco, but the article stated that a big name OEM has (DELL) is offering XP again. you might be doing ok but Vista isn't lmao! :rofl:

And, last but never ever least, if XP isn't broke, why "fix" it with Vista? -- Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols

This is my big question. Windows XP runs fine. Why do we need to replace it with another operating system?

When I need more than 3.25 gigabytes of Random Access Memory I want Windows XP 64-bit, not Vista.

It's all about the money!

Dell also offers vista ;)

We sell Vista or XP ... Mostly Vista business or XP professianal since we deal mainly with business pc's.

Remember Dell once offered Linux, pulled it, and now it's back again lol! Apparently Linux is doing worst ;)

They also did it with Amd. all part of the cycle. MS btw ran out of Product ID's for XP. If you get a newer copy you will see the stickers changed.

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hey Roco, but the article stated that a big name OEM has (DELL) is offering XP again. you might be doing ok but Vista isn't lmao! :rofl:

And, last but never ever least, if XP isn't broke, why "fix" it with Vista? -- Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols

This is my big question. Windows XP runs fine. Why do we need to replace it with another operating system?

When I need more than 3.25 gigabytes of Random Access Memory I want Windows XP 64-bit, not Vista.

It's all about the money!

Dell also offers vista ;)

We sell Vista or XP ... Mostly Vista business or XP professianal since we deal mainly with business pc's.

Remember Dell once offered Linux, pulled it, and now it's back again lol! Apparently Linux is doing worst ;)

They also did it with Amd. all part of the cycle. MS btw ran out of Product ID's for XP. If you get a newer copy you will see the stickers changed.

I know roco, but the article states that, while Dell offers Vista, they have also gone back to offering XP. XP isn't broken so why try to fix it with Vista? and there's a comment by a MS spokeperson about extending XP support until 09? I and the article author think that XP will be around alot longer than 09 2008. But again, Vienna is in development and perhaps it will be worth the time to upgrade. Vienna is supposed to release near the end of 2009.

edited due to my error

Edited by Papa6
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hey Roco, but the article stated that a big name OEM has (DELL) is offering XP again. you might be doing ok but Vista isn't lmao! :rofl:

And, last but never ever least, if XP isn't broke, why "fix" it with Vista? -- Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols

This is my big question. Windows XP runs fine. Why do we need to replace it with another operating system?

When I need more than 3.25 gigabytes of Random Access Memory I want Windows XP 64-bit, not Vista.

It's all about the money!

Dell also offers vista ;)

We sell Vista or XP ... Mostly Vista business or XP professianal since we deal mainly with business pc's.

Remember Dell once offered Linux, pulled it, and now it's back again lol! Apparently Linux is doing worst ;)

They also did it with Amd. all part of the cycle. MS btw ran out of Product ID's for XP. If you get a newer copy you will see the stickers changed.

I know roco, but the article states that, while Dell offers Vista, they have also gone back to offering XP. XP isn't broken so why try to fix it with Vista? and there's a comment by a MS spokeperson about extending XP support until 09? I and the article author think that XP will be around alot longer than 09 2008. But again, Vienna is in development and perhaps it will be worth the time to upgrade. Vienna is supposed to release near the end of 2009.

edited due to my error

While I am not certain, I am about 95% sure that Microsoft never intended to cut off XP very quickly, hell just a year ago or so they stopped supporting 98. They always knew there would be a SP3 for XP and they knew they would be supporting it for years, it isn't like Vista came out nobody bought it and they were like "bloody hell, now we have to support XP for awhile now".

I think this (in terms of Dell) be parrelleled to the CPU situation, Dell started offering AMD on its computers, does that mean Intel is completely screwed, horrible, broken, and unsupported? No, it means there are people out there who like choices.

Yes I use Vista, Yes I enjoy it, Yes it has problems.

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hey Roco, but the article stated that a big name OEM has (DELL) is offering XP again. you might be doing ok but Vista isn't lmao! :rofl:

And, last but never ever least, if XP isn't broke, why "fix" it with Vista? -- Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols

This is my big question. Windows XP runs fine. Why do we need to replace it with another operating system?

When I need more than 3.25 gigabytes of Random Access Memory I want Windows XP 64-bit, not Vista.

It's all about the money!

Dell also offers vista ;)

We sell Vista or XP ... Mostly Vista business or XP professianal since we deal mainly with business pc's.

Remember Dell once offered Linux, pulled it, and now it's back again lol! Apparently Linux is doing worst ;)

They also did it with Amd. all part of the cycle. MS btw ran out of Product ID's for XP. If you get a newer copy you will see the stickers changed.

I know roco, but the article states that, while Dell offers Vista, they have also gone back to offering XP. XP isn't broken so why try to fix it with Vista? and there's a comment by a MS spokeperson about extending XP support until 09? I and the article author think that XP will be around alot longer than 09 2008. But again, Vienna is in development and perhaps it will be worth the time to upgrade. Vienna is supposed to release near the end of 2009.

edited due to my error

While I am not certain, I am about 95% sure that Microsoft never intended to cut off XP very quickly, hell just a year ago or so they stopped supporting 98. They always knew there would be a SP3 for XP and they knew they would be supporting it for years, it isn't like Vista came out nobody bought it and they were like "bloody hell, now we have to support XP for awhile now".

I think this (in terms of Dell) be parrelleled to the CPU situation, Dell started offering AMD on its computers, does that mean Intel is completely screwed, horrible, broken, and unsupported? No, it means there are people out there who like choices.

Yes I use Vista, Yes I enjoy it, Yes it has problems.

Good post

To add to this. I think it was dumb for dell to pull xp entirely as soon as vista released. The software companies hadn't caught up to vista yet... hell the drivers were barely there. Now they are trying to recoup lost sales. We didn't sell vista for at least 2 months after release. Why you ask? even the antivirus venders hadn't caught up with it. Transitions should be slow. Offer both... then slowly get rid of xp home. 1 year down the line, start limiting xp pro sales and 1.5 years, vista is golden... good by xp.

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Vista has DX10 support.

Do you think XP Sp3 will have DX10 support?

Until I get into a game with DX10 support, I have no reason to go to upgrade to either, most of my daily computer chores are done on my Mac. My PC is almost strictly for gaming.

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Vista has DX10 support.

Do you think XP Sp3 will have DX10 support?

Until I get into a game with DX10 support, I have no reason to go to upgrade to either, most of my daily computer chores are done on my Mac. My PC is almost strictly for gaming.

Vista works great for me... your specs are near mine cell so i don't think you'll have issues.

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DX10 is the only thing that Vista can really hold up against XP. The problem there is nobody really gives a hoot about DX10 because every benchmark test out there shows that for gaming Vista is a dog, XP kicks it to the kerb.

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DX10 is the only thing that Vista can really hold up against XP. The problem there is nobody really gives a hoot about DX10 because every benchmark test out there shows that for gaming Vista is a dog, XP kicks it to the kerb.

Ain't that the truth. :o
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I guess what was the proverbial "it's going to suck" concept for me was, When they started stripping out all the features that were supposed to turn people on and compel them to upgrade to vista, basically what was supposed to be the key points were mostly the new WINFS file system. There were some more features that got stripped out due to the fact they couldn't get them to work and THAT's when I knew in my mind that Vista was a loser.

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I guess what was the proverbial "it's going to suck" concept for me was, When they started stripping out all the features that were supposed to turn people on and compel them to upgrade to vista, basically what was supposed to be the key points were mostly the new WINFS file system. There were some more features that got stripped out due to the fact they couldn't get them to work and THAT's when I knew in my mind that Vista was a loser.

uh... most of the features did work... problem was MS was being sued by 3rd party so they had to strip it as usual.

ROCKY

for businesses shadow copying is a BIG reason to get vista. It keeps previous versions of EVERY file on your hard drive. It takes 14% of your drive for this (you don't get to pick how much) and usually can take you back about a month.

On tech support now with Vista, someone says they lost a document, i say how long ago? right click my computer, left click properites, previous versions tab. choose a snapshot before this happened and copy it out. Now we have a happy customer. XP's restore could not restore data files like that. This is a technology that was only found in Server 2003 before this.

Also on a technical end... Vista's task manager is FAR superior over xp. I can tell what files are accessing my hard drive at ANY time, memory, and processor. this is through the resource monitor in the task manager. I can tell what files are accessing the internet/network and even what files are using the most threads on my processor.

Check the link to see what my pc looks like in the resource meter (note i have a quad cpu)

Vista

And here is the previous versions (I opened my previoius versions to show my whole hard drive from a week ago.

Vista previous versions

Also Vista's backup can backup live WHILE you work on it. The backup file is a virtual pc file which you can take to any win xp or vista pc, download the free ms virtual pc and run your WHOLE O/S, make changes to it and restore it back later when your pc has been repaired. The only thing that doesn't work when doing this is USB.

So, yes there are some VERY good features in Vista over XP. Will it help your gaming... no! (until direct x 10) But... it could save you from a disaster.

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Roco, i understand your company may be having the time of it's life, at that, congrats. I know that's what puts bread on your table. But Dell, a serious OEM going back to XP for new PC's isn't an indication that vista isn't going to be the hit MS had hoped it will be. Hey these things happen. Also, and now MS is extending support for XP until june 08? hehe, yeah, it will go further than that. :D just watch.

that being said, What I'm getting not just by the above article but from other PC mag journalists is, Most companies don't see any compelling reason to upgrade. First the application support just isn't there. so how's a firm supposed to add Virtualisation if they can't get it to work on Vista? I'll be fair and say for the most part that PROBABLY most companies aren't willing to sacrifice their databases and database farms to Vista with all the problems.

Now back to XP. Xp is the best Windows that MS has put out to date. we have the best of the world in regards to stability. So I tried to get on board with Vista myself, i used the vista upgrade advisor and was given the greelight to upgrade, not to vista basic mind you but Vista ultimate. the truth is, the advisor doesn't really tell the truth. it says you can run vista, that's all. my chipset works as well. But when I'm done installing, My CPU usage runs no less than 90% usage and under processes by user, there's no process showing why. I have no extra hardware connected to create this headache. also to note, MS's support couldn't figure it out. I went on for a month or so until I just got fed up with it, and reinstalled XP.

MS's 3rd party lawsuits against them is tantamount to MS's trying to muscle users and the market. If they're wrong and it appears they are, MS has some hard times ahead.

Let me fast forward to 2009 late in the year. Vienna will be released. will it best XP? that remains to be seen. But MS is hit or miss on OS'es, the last, ME sucked badly, 98SE was good, XP is good so maybe Vienna will be the new choice. If not, MS will be in big trouble market wise if Vienna fails to attract the market share. 2 OS'es and they both fail? whew, MS might just crash and burn and slip down in Desktop OS market shares. but since steve Ballmer took over, i haven't seen anything worth praising since XP.

Edited by Papa6
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Roco, i understand your company may be having the time of it's life, at that, congrats. I know that's what puts bread on your table. But Dell, a serious OEM going back to XP for new PC's isn't an indication that vista isn't going to be the hit MS had hoped it will be. Hey these things happen. Also, and now MS is extending support for XP until june 08? hehe, yeah, it will go further than that. :D just watch.

that being said, What I'm getting not just by the above article but from other PC mag journalists is, Most companies don't see any compelling reason to upgrade. First the application support just isn't there. so how's a firm supposed to add Virtualisation if they can't get it to work on Vista? I'll be fair and say for the most part that PROBABLY most companies aren't willing to sacrifice their databases and database farms to Vista with all the problems.

Now back to XP. Xp is the best Windows that MS has put out to date. we have the best of the world in regards to stability. So I tried to get on board with Vista myself, i used the vista upgrade advisor and was given the greelight to upgrade, not to vista basic mind you but Vista ultimate. the truth is, the advisor doesn't really tell the truth. it says you can run vista, that's all. my chipset works as well. But when I'm done installing, My CPU usage runs no less than 90% usage and under processes by user, there's no process showing why. I have no extra hardware connected to create this headache. also to note, MS's support couldn't figure it out. I went on for a month or so until I just got fed up with it, and reinstalled XP.

MS's 3rd party lawsuits against them is tantamount to MS's trying to muscle users and the market. If they're wrong and it appears they are, MS has some hard times ahead.

Let me fast forward to 2009 late in the year. Vienna will be released. will it best XP? that remains to be seen. But MS is hit or miss on OS'es, the last, ME sucked badly, 98SE was good, XP is good so maybe Vienna will be the new choice. If not, MS will be in big trouble market wise if Vienna fails to attract the market share. 2 OS'es and they both fail? whew, MS might just crash and burn and slip down in Desktop OS market shares. but since steve Ballmer took over, i haven't seen anything worth praising since XP.

Did you even check my jpgs or read what i said? That resource meter should have shown what was maxing your cpu. Vista can run all the way back to a PIII 800 with 512mb of ram (although it won't be pretty). It shuts off the extras for slower pc's (like indexing)

I actually was interviewed by e-week via the phone at about 1 month after vista's launch ... some of this article may be from what i said at the time. Basically i told them MS hasn't rolled vista out in the action pack a head of time so all we had to test off of was beta's which disappointed us. Now on release hardware companies don't have drivers and blah blah blah. 3 months afterward i would have said the exact opposite,

BTW papa have you ever upgraded 98 to XP? LOL... upgrades never go well. You need a full install. Here is a work around. Load vista off your cd fresh. (your code won't be able to activate it if you have an upgrade version)eject your cd when it's done. Put it back in... and upgrade. It will then take your activation key after reloading upgrade style. Rumor has it MS did this by design in case you lost your xp cd.

Most users also have forgotten how bad xp was and how long before stability came... eh hem SP1... and still had some issues which SP2 resolved. And XP's 64 bit? Very little drivers and many issues.

What i recommend for peeps, is if you are building a mid ranged pc, or purchasing a new that has a non integrated card, go vista. I do not recommend upgrading your old.

Here is why dell failed with vista. Integrated video cards. They couldn't do aero, and there wasn't drivers for there current, so they had to shift the product line and hope intel provided them. Even newer laptops never got vista drivers for the video (i have an HP with a 64mb ATI mobility in it) that isn't supported althuogh the colors look fine, in vista it would crash when playing dvd's. Vista's fault? NO! HP/ATI for not releasing notebook drivers for 1 year old notebooks for vista... YES

Granted we are not as big as DELL... but we do support 7 school districts, 6 hospitals, about 20 lawyers offices, 10 insurance companies, Carrier corporation, and i have about 600 clients that are active in my pocket pc/ phone so i can tell who it is when they call me while i'm on the road. We cover ALL this with 2 techs (also 2 part timers during the summer for school builds), 4 sales, and 1 shipping. Monthly sales are 1-2 million (note that isn't profit) and as a tech i sold $50,000 myself and made $65,000 at the age of 32 last year. So no we aren't Dell (www.computerco-op.com is us) but we do a hella lot of business.

So back to the topic.

New PC with non integrated card (8000 series) ... Go vista... you won't be dissappointed and will be ready for DX10

Old PC, stick with XP and hope the games have dx9 counterparts (early one's will)

As for databases... they aren't on XP either... LOL on Servers where they can be backed up constantly lol.

The clients though work as good on either o/s (some use termainal services or citrix which is just a remote anyway with mappings back for your printer)

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I haven't gotten into PC hardware in awhile so I might be a bit rusty. So, like i said before, Congrats for your success.

I'd like to use Vista but the feature that determines what's going on with your PC?, it has the little red meter?, well that said my AMD64 3700+ CPU wasn't sufficient for Vista use. :hmm: that's Crap, so I'm using a 939 pin CPU.

But Vista is in trouble as it is because, like I keep saying, Vienna will release in a 2009.

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I haven't gotten into PC hardware in awhile so I might be a bit rusty. So, like i said before, Congrats for your success.

I'd like to use Vista but the feature that determines what's going on with your PC?, it has the little red meter?, well that said my AMD64 3700+ CPU wasn't sufficient for Vista use. :hmm: that's Crap, so I'm using a 939 pin CPU.

But Vista is in trouble as it is because, like I keep saying, Vienna will release in a 2009.

Remember how long that have been delaying longhorn (aka vista). I doubt we will see Vienna any time soon.

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What I don't understand is why Microsoft just seems to throw operating systems on the market without releasing several thousand operating systems to others to test first so they can work the bugs out of them. Do they do test releases or do they just have their technicians work on the software?

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Do they do test releases or do they just have their technicians work on the software?

Microsoft released alpha and beta builds of Vista (then still code named Longhorn) to thousands of people, over a course of a couple of years before release to manufacture. No, I'm serious. Heck, anyone could download a limited time running RC (release candidate) freely for I believe almost a full year before Vista hit retail.

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Sometimes things are better left alone. What is a guy who was selling Coca-Cola doing selling software?

I knew, I just knew Vista was a bad idea. so many delays stripping the features out just to shove it out the door. <_<

I'm sticking with XP unless Vienna..oops now windows7 shows some value and worth

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I'd also like to add that an article based out of beijing sums up that MS may have finally admitted to Vista's failure. :rofl:

http://www.microsoftsucks.org/index.php?id=411

feel free to visit a web forum dedicated to computers and OS'es at http://www.sandacomputing.net/forums/index.php?

just register and talk away about PC's and operating systems. positives and negatives. just no flaming!

got an issue that others have? post it there and let others input their knowledge as well.

I'm helping to setup more forums and like new ideas. along with other ideas.

Edited by Papa6
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our goal is non confrontational and free input about the different things in the forums.

I want to convey that if anyone has an issue with anyone on our forums please leave it at the door.

I'm striving to keep the peace. our mission is to allow people to be informed about issues with the different OS'es configurations and just plain problems.

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