Graw 2 is a Great Game

[PainExposer]

This Game is not dead nor will it ever die because it was made for the hardcore tactical gamer. What I mean by hardcore tac gamers? These tactical gamers play this game faithfully never calling someone a cheat unless the proof is written on the well yes they may feel cheated,but never accuse the individual because like in the court of law you are innocent until proven guilty. This may be a video game (arcade anyone meant for fun) however,its a tactical game first. Its roots started there and thats where they lie. Other shooters pretend to be sims yes this one game GR:AW 2 is the real thing,and yes it has its faults just like the legal system nothing is perfect.

I Applaud all who are putting an effort to making this game what it should be in the first place full of content and fun. Ubi may have hindered this series but Grin have tried their best within the limits given them to give us the game we all wanted and desire.I like the mods and mappacks that have been made thus far by our community and would ask you to not abandon us now in my opinion this game is starting to take off.

I am still hoping to see a few more patches addressing performance,anti-cheat measures,autodownloading,true in game chat, and some more content from Grin which would be nice.Also more advertising would not hurt sales the PC game is not getting the PR it deserve!!!!

I am currently beta testing Crysis,Frontlines Fuel Wars just got halo3 for my kids XBOX360 yet I still want my GR:AW2 its something I can't live without this is a great game given the chance it can grow so I appeal to the modders please don't stop helping a good game become a great game isn't this what you did for the [Ghost Recon]?

Thank You all for your hardwork hope you all can get along. Peace see you on the battlefield Castle Day anyone:)

[th33f.]

that map brings lots of memories, except it has a major fault that changes everything we knew about Castle Day in GR. night vision lets you see too far! in the original it gave you maybe a few extra feet of view through the fog, plus silhouettes against an open sky, while in GRAW2 it clears out the fog almost completely, therefore turning the map into a much more sniper dominated battlefield. too bad 'cause without the nv the fog distance is spot on.

[Nutlink]

I honestly don't consider GRAW 2 to be much of a tactical shooter anymore. The arcade-like gameplay is there for many to take advantage of if they so choose, but if they don't then yeah, it's a good tac shooter. Things like the lack of swaying sights/scopes, perfect aim almost every time, 100% accurate GLs that don't have, much less need, sights, the ability to run for 5 minutes and still bring your gun up for a head shot at 100m in less than 2 seconds, all that and more make me feel like I was cheated. The skin is good, but underneath it's horrid. It's far from being realistic.

Combine that with the small number of people that still play the game, lack of communication from the devs, bickering from the few that do play, minimal variety, horrible coop, missing server options, annoying bugs/features/lack of features, and other miscellaneous things, this game is almost as good as dead. And it's been out for what, 2 months? I'll stick to Armed Assault right now while waiting for Ground Branch.

[BOTA:X]

Wow bro, that was brutal, but I know what you mean.

It's personally still fun to me to play no-respawn...and occasionally I'll jump in a kill spam server if I'm left with no alternatives.

[Peace]

I largely agree with Nutlink and BOTA:X...

However, the devs have participated in these forums more than most devs and I thank them for their efforts. Unfortunately we have not communicated well enough as their priority seems to have been on the SP part of the game.

Also, the game was likely intentionally designed not to last, thus the lack of variety, options and flexibility. (I'm only talking about MP, I don't know anything about the SP part as I haven't felt any urge to try it, sry)

Some of the fundamental design flaws and annoying lack of features as: no punishment when hit, no damage model, no stock multiple and optional random insertion zones, no after action chat, no detailed after-action-stats, no replays, messy server interface lacking vital features and so on....I will probably never understand the reason for

Still, I'm having fun while playing the game when on a well-admined server and limited respawns. ...and no resp. matching would rock if only there was some flexibility and enough active teams .

The sound is awesome , the existing maps are fine (but the collision issue with leaves in trees and non collision in bushes). The netcode is vastly improved above [GR] and GRAW 1 and the remake of Castle Day/night and other efforts of making quality maps increases the probability of survival of this game a tiny little bit.

Keep going map makers and modders

Imo a promptly released carefully designed official map expansion is what this game needs, an expansion which also corrects some of the major MP gameplay complaints that keep popping up on the forums. I'd pay for it However, the lack of any announcement bothers me.

Remember [GR] had 2 great expansions (DS and IT) released within a very short period of time (and all maps available for MP). What happened to that philosophy?

[huddex]

I largely agree with Nutlink and BOTA:X...

However, the devs have participated in these forums more than most devs and I thank them for their efforts. Unfortunately we have not communicated well enough as their priority seems to have been on the SP part of the game.

Also, the game was likely intentionally designed not to last, thus the lack of variety, options and flexibility. (I'm only talking about MP, I don't know anything about the SP part as I haven't felt any urge to try it, sry)

Some of the fundamental design flaws and annoying lack of features as: no punishment when hit, no damage model, no stock multiple and optional random insertion zones, no after action chat, no detailed after-action-stats, no replays, messy server interface lacking vital features and so on....I will probably never understand the reason for

Still, I'm having fun while playing the game when on a well-admined server and limited respawns. ...and no resp. matching would rock if only there was some flexibility and enough active teams .

The sound is awesome , the existing maps are fine (but the collision issue with leaves in trees and non collision in bushes). The netcode is vastly improved above [GR] and GRAW 1 and the remake of Castle Day/night and other efforts of making quality maps increases the probability of survival of this game a tiny little bit.

Keep going map makers and modders

Imo a promptly released carefully designed official map expansion is what this game needs, an expansion which also corrects some of the major MP gameplay complaints that keep popping up on the forums. I'd pay for it However, the lack of any announcement bothers me.

Remember [GR] had 2 great expansions (DS and IT) released within a very short period of time (and all maps available for MP). What happened to that philosophy?

Good input, i would love to see a detailed answer from UBI/GRiN were they do mee us and TALK to us again.

[Lightspeed]

well i had a crack at fixing things as have many modders - but it hasnt done anything to help. i have been surprised to say the least, that a number of mods have been put out there but noone has really bothered to try them.

(now b4 ppl jump out and say im just bitter - plz dont - i am actually talking about other ppls works here...and just making the comment based on what i am seeing in the servers...essentially ppl want no weapon restrictions and tdm or hh - thats all folks)

other then that - all i see is empty servers everywhere.

and im totally with Nutlink - as great as this game could be/ should be it has a too many negatives which have failed it.

and tbh - while this game was a big improvement for me on GRAW, it still has fallen short in the end and the Devs have just disappeared - I dont think, (when I have seen Devs surfing the forums) that it would have been too much to offer some advice, or a comment on certain unresolved topics that have been posted.

are they not accountable in some way and should respond in some way - not just turn a blind eye?

if this is what we can expect from GRAW3 then im not sure at this stage if ill buy it. i know that seems like a turn around, and it is, but i honestly believed that some modding might right the wrongs - it wont.

so much better effort GRIN, but i guess with the new marketing strategy of UBI - (only release a bit and make then buy some more soon) is just not gonna work for me in the long run.

if i was buying a game on the other hand, that was going to be kicking ass after 6 months, with packed servers, then i would jump at new expansion packs. this is simply not the case with GRAW2 - why not? lack of content, and ultimately most ppl ONLY WANT TO USE STOCK!!

stock weapons, stock maps, stock gametypes.

thats enuff - for the few remaining - enjoy and like it or not ill be back to mod something worthwhile later.

and im sure rugg will be there supporting me

[GR] vs GRAW2 -

[GR] - 22 MP MAPS for all gametypes on release.

GRAW2 - 10 of those only certain gametypes on certain maps.

ill continue this later

[Lightspeed]

----------------------------------------

interesting look at the kits comparison - was limited in [GR] but a good combination, however, by the second pack Desert Siege - Red Storm and had expanded the variety available to the point that there was something there for everyone and a nice range of weapons.

Island Thunder was a bigger variety again.

In addition - frags and GLs which are an integral part of any tactical game were well-balanced and as you would in real life - you got a number of them.

how is it in GRAW2 that they thought one GL nade which fired straight and true and guaranteed a kill everytime got through to the final release?

how did they think one frag in a kit and with super strike radius was going to be good for the game?

why did they decide to take the kit loadouts from GRAW1 and abandon it - they had the code already.

anyways as i think about this - i feel like another one of the unappreciative so im stopping here.

i like what was done - i question some of the decisions - but all in all, the concept of handing out half a game prolly has not been the right approach.

[GR] was comprehensive and gave players everything they needed for the first year, year and a half - and then they just built on it.

GRAW2 gave us enogh content for about 2 months if that - and then said let the modders complete the picture. unfortunately, i think the reality is gamers want a complete game , stock material, and not have to rely on or utilise modded material.

[Cangaroo.TNT]

Some of the fundamental design flaws and annoying lack of features as: no punishment when hit, no damage model....

I don't understand that decision at all. All the animations are there. I don't know why they didn't use them.

Keep going map makers and modders

I think I'm done. I made my game modes based on 2 guiding principles:

>>I thought the community wanted tactical, objective based gameplay that required teamwork and communication

>>My desire for the same style of gameplay

Well, no one is hosting/playing Advance And Secure, and no one has even downloaded Combat Search And Rescue, even though:

>>The little feedback received so far has been favorable

>>There has not been a single bug report with AAS

>>Bugs (which I've found myself) with CSAR have been minor & fixed

>>Stock maps, so it's not like they suck

Obviously, 1 of my 2 guiding principles is wrong. How to say this without being misinterpreted ....

I don't think the problem is the community.

I also don't think the problem is my game modes.

I think my desired style of play is not shared with the GR community.

I agree there are many, many areas where GRAW1/2 is lacking in the reality department, and IMO TDM is as unrealistic as it gets. Besides, I find TDM to be boring. But, as the server list shows, that is what GR players want. And that, friends, is a community decision, not a Grin/UBI decision.

Edited September 26, 2007 by Cangaroo.TNT

[Biro]

Obviously, 1 of my 2 guiding principles is wrong. How to say this without being misinterpreted ....

I don't think the problem is the community.

I also don't think the problem is my game modes.

I think my desired style of play is not shared with the GR community.

I think the problem is rather the number of people that's actually playing the game. As we all know it's pretty damn few maybe a couple of 100s every night. If you want people in your server you basically have to with the stock setup of maps and modes, if not the server will be empty. If there was 10000 people playing the game every night the chance of some people want to play the game-mode would have been bigger and I'm pretty sure some servers would run it aswell.

And few players is UBI/Grins problems as they made a game that just as well could have been called Counter Strike 2.9.

[Cangaroo.TNT]

Obviously, 1 of my 2 guiding principles is wrong. How to say this without being misinterpreted ....

I don't think the problem is the community.

I also don't think the problem is my game modes.

I think my desired style of play is not shared with the GR community.

I think the problem is rather the number of people that's actually playing the game. As we all know it's pretty damn few maybe a couple of 100s every night. If you want people in your server you basically have to with the stock setup of maps and modes, if not the server will be empty. If there was 10000 people playing the game every night the chance of some people want to play the game-mode would have been bigger and I'm pretty sure some servers would run it aswell.

And few players is UBI/Grins problems as they made a game that just as well could have been called Counter Strike 2.9.

Well, I know you didn't intend to, but I think you more-or-less emphasised my point. Regardless of the number of players, 300 or 30,000, the vast, overwhelming majority do not share my desired style of gameplay. I admit I am the odd man out, here. I should have seen the writting on the wall when most people said more kills was better than a high K/D ratio. But even then, I didn't realize just how small the objective based, tactical TvT portion of the community was/is.

[Lightspeed]

i have to agree with you cangaroo -

i thought the GR community was about tactics, teamwork, weapons selection and above all gameplay.

what i thought and what i see are completely different.

i see infinite respawns and no kit restrictions to increase tactics.

i see only run n gun.

except of course the one or 2 no respawn servers like BSRs and i know Vhladd and crew have probably done a lot of work to try and improve gameplay and variety.

will it pay off for them - i hope so.

but at the end of the day i think this tactical Ghost Recon that i thought we were about is now for the most part, folklore. What we are left with now seems to be just another run n gun.

how the *&^# did GR end up like this?

it's almost embarassing..........

[kretzj]

I'm not sure I completely agree with the previous comment about SP getting the lion's share of attention. Sure from a code perspective perhaps there were a lot of SP fixes and tweaks from GRAW 1 but SP gameplay is ALL about content... there has to be a lot of it and it has to be good. That's not the case with GRAW 2. I rarely, if ever, play MP so I can't and won't comment on that side of the house but reading the commentary posted so far it sounds like the same situation... better than GRAW 1 but.. still...

I think for a lot of people GRAW 2 was the ultimate "make or break" release. It would either mean a resurgence of the brand or it's withering death. The raw material is there for the most part (there are issues yet to be solved for SP and MP clearly)... but there's been a stunning lack of communication from Ubi regarding the future of Ghost Recon PC. Is it going to be mission packs and continued patches? Is it an upcoming announcement for GRAW 3? Is it an acknowledgment that as a community we PC players are just a bunch of whining want-it-all's that will never be happy so there won't be any more releases for our platform?

Without SP content and/or MP improvements, I think GRAW2 is probably destined for a short life span. And to some degree it won't be fair because it is better than GRAW 1. I personally feel I spent nearly 100 USD to let Ubi / GRiN get it right but I finished the SP content over a 48 hour period (about 10 hours of gameplay). I've downloaded the material we have online but again, another 10 hours of SP gameplay and I'm done again, and there isn't that much modded material for SP to begin with.

I wanted this release to be successful. I wanted to have it be the blow-out release that brought people back into the fold, that allowed the modders to open up the world like we saw in [GR] days and rebuild a tight-knit community of people dedicated not only to a genre, but to a franchise. Sadly, while it bettered GRAW 1 I think it mostly missed the mark for dedicated tactical sim players. Call it a stand-up double rather than the homerun it needed to be.

I'm getting ready to re-image my XP gaming box this coming weekend and I just don't think I'll be re-installing GRAW 2 when it happens... I don't see the need when there's no SP content for me to play.

-John K.

i have to agree with you cangaroo -

i thought the GR community was about tactics, teamwork, weapons selection and above all gameplay.

what i thought and what i see are completely different.

i see infinite respawns and no kit restrictions to increase tactics.

i see only run n gun.

except of course the one or 2 no respawn servers like BSRs and i know Vhladd and crew have probably done a lot of work to try and improve gameplay and variety.

will it pay off for them - i hope so.

but at the end of the day i think this tactical Ghost Recon that i thought we were about is now for the most part, folklore. What we are left with now seems to be just another run n gun.

how the *&^# did GR end up like this?

it's almost embarassing..........

I think the audience changed out from under us... there is still a hard-core group of true tactical fans but we're outnumbered by the newer, younger (sorry to say it) run-n-gun generation. I'm not sure our group is smaller than it used to be (overall... some have certainly left the GR community) but the gunners are growing faster than we are. When I get bored with GRAW2 I still play [GR] in firefight mode, primitive graphics and AI notwithstanding. I can't see the run-n-gun crowd firing up [GR]...

-John K.

[Lightspeed]

Peace made a great point in another thread - Ill make the same point here -

[GR] - fantastic GUI and Server Configuration.

[GR] - UBI browser and Gamespy browser for pregaem chat and an opportunity to find/hook up matches.

GRAW2 - DOS-style server configuration - limited, almost pointless options in GUI.

GRAW2 - no browser..period.

LAST THING - just jumped in to MP to see whats going on - 3rd busiest server = Deathmatch.

the most untactical and 0% teamwork gametype possible - and 3rd most popular.....scary, very scary.

"daddy, what ever happened to Ghost Recon?"

"it died son....it up and died"

Edited September 26, 2007 by PoW_LigHtsPeEd

[ruggbutt]

[GR] was slow to take off. It took almost a year before I saw the amount of people playing that it was (in)famous for. Granted, there was dev support, more than what I'm seeing for GRAW2. With the lack of posting here from GRIN, it looks like we got all we're gonna get w/patches and that's a shame.

A few small fixes and this game would be tactical again. A squad with guys w/M99's can pwn in this game and that's just not conducive for tactical play.

[=WO=TekHousE]

Sadly its true..

I agree with rb and lightspeed. pretty lame these inf spawns and absolutely no tactics.

[Invisible]

I think the only tactical thing to graw2 is campaign coop for me,us you have missions,gears to choose,like [GR].

And it is better to be 4 good teammates and play tactical,then a lot of people in servers and play team deathmatch or Run and Gun.

So my hope is someone make campaign coop mods.

Also my 2d favorite mode is Recon vs Assult(sorry for advance and secure,i wanted to try it but servers are empty ),because you have a purpose (like defend mode )someone attacks on a target and you must prevent him.(but there are a lot of campers)

And the worst is that Grin or Ubi seems that Abandon this game too soon

Edited September 26, 2007 by Invisible

[Cangaroo.TNT]

Also my 2d favorite mode is Advance and Secure,because you have a purpose (like defend mode )someone attacks on a target and you must prevent him.(but there are a lot of campers)

LOL I think you're referring to Siege.

[PainExposer]

I think the only tactical thing to graw2 is campaign coop for me,us you have missions,gears to choose,like [GR].

And it is better to be 4 good teammates and play tactical,then a lot of people in servers and play team deathmatch or Run and Gun.

So my hope is someone make campaign coop mods.

Also my 2d favorite mode is Advance and Secure,because you have a purpose (like defend mode )someone attacks on a target and you must prevent him.(but there are a lot of campers)

And the worst is that Grin or Ubi seems that Abandon this game too soon

Looking at the worst and hoping for the best .I have an Idea don't know if it would work,but would it be possible to use Coop modes as the basis to mod us an tdm and maybe other modes where we could choose our own kits like graw1 I think the kit restrictions put a damper on the game also.

I still like the game and hope the mod seen can get something going positive sorry most of you feel the way you do, but I understand your frustration and disappiontment with the publisher and devs.

Thanks for the replies you have given and lets hope the devs and ubi are paying attention seeing as they are part of microsoft games for windows maybe if we stick to our guns and don't buy any lubi tittles they will start to listen.

[ROCO*AFZ*]

[GR] - fantastic GUI and Server Configuration. On Release was VERY unstable and servers crashed with over 12 peeps until patched

[GR] - UBI browser and Gamespy browser for pregaem chat and an opportunity to find/hook up matches.

UBI BROWSER DID NOTHING FOR MATCHING. WAS USUALLY JUST A WHOLE BUNCH OF KIDS FIGHTING ON IT AND EVENTUALLY IT GOT HACKED AND NEVER WAS FIXED

GRAW2 - DOS-style server configuration - limited, almost pointless options in GUI. YOU DON'T HAVE TO USE THE CONSOLE... YOU CAN BRING IT UP IN A 640X480 WINDOW WITH A GUI FOR SETTING IT UP. Only problem is the mouse is offset when remoting to this. OPTIONS AREN'T THAT LIMITED BUT THERE ARE A FEW I WOULD LIKE TO SEE.

GRAW2 - no browser..period. GRAW 2 HAS GAMESPY... YOU HAVEN'T SEEN IT? WHAT IT DOESN'T HAVE IS DIRECT IP.

And yes rugg is right. the 1st year of GR1 was terrible. 1st patch solved some issues , but most were resolved with DS.

Then remember gr boom? RSE/UBI never patched it... game not supported. The creator due to community demand fixed it.

As for weapon balance... hmm i ran the oicw with a 6GL nade launcher that didn't require a reload. Most servers banned mm1 and Support do to lagging the servers.

What is needed is a patch... then an expansion pack. ( I would purchase one) and the possibiltiy of being injured (that helps slow down the run and gunners)

The Main problem is the bad taste GRAW1 left for MP. One gametype on release, the GL bug (Crash) that was present for months until the 1.35 patch... and the lack of Ladders. (TWL i think is the only one) Also the lack of publicity on anything but the xbox version.

[Cangaroo.TNT]

Well, I don't think the issue is a lack of publicity, because the number of players seems to be decreasing. A lack of publicity might explain why there are not more players, but it does not explain why there appears to be fewer. People that have the game don't need a commercial to remind them that they have it.

I think the biggest problem is that GRAW 2's most popluar game type is TDM. And, what distinguished GRAW's TDM from any other? Nothing. And, for me personally, it's not the game, it's the game mode. I don't care how great a game looks or plays. I find TDM boring. Again, that is not the fault of Grin or even Ubisoft. That's what the community chooses to play.

[kretzj]

Well, I don't think the issue is a lack of publicity, because the number of players seems to be decreasing. A lack of publicity might explain why there are not more players, but it does not explain why there appears to be fewer. People that have the game don't need a commercial to remind them that they have it.

I think the biggest problem is that GRAW 2's most popluar game type is TDM. And, what distinguished GRAW's TDM from any other? Nothing. And, for me personally, it's not the game, it's the game mode. I don't care how great a game looks or plays. I find TDM boring. Again, that is not the fault of Grin or even Ubisoft. That's what the community chooses to play.

TDM - the Quake and Unreal Tournament gang has taken over our tactical sim world.

[ROCO*AFZ*]

Well, I don't think the issue is a lack of publicity, because the number of players seems to be decreasing. A lack of publicity might explain why there are not more players, but it does not explain why there appears to be fewer. People that have the game don't need a commercial to remind them that they have it.

I think the biggest problem is that GRAW 2's most popluar game type is TDM. And, what distinguished GRAW's TDM from any other? Nothing. And, for me personally, it's not the game, it's the game mode. I don't care how great a game looks or plays. I find TDM boring. Again, that is not the fault of Grin or even Ubisoft. That's what the community chooses to play.

Truthfully i like TDM... it's what keeps ladders going. I also like SAR (which your working on) Siege, Hamburger hill and all gametypes except rsva. I do miss domination from GRAW1. The run in gun is fun for late night when i can't think but can react... and when it's not late i prefer the no respawn.

The commericals bring hype. Kids go.. wow this looks cool. They buy it. You get a bigger base to start the game with. The more people on launch, the more servers that are full. Lots of servers and choices make the game prosper and so the game lasts longer. GR1 was a fluke... and it's timing was right (when it got the 1st expansion) as nothing at that age was close.

[Cangaroo.TNT]

I also like SAR (which your working on)

What do you mean "working on"? I thought it was done LOL. Seriously, though, I'm glad you like it. I'm not aware of any bugs, though, so if there are any, let me know.

[IrishStout]

Issue's with Mods..

I like them but only have two servers - 1 for CO-OP and 1 for TDM, Siege, HH. We are currently hosting TRR, but hardly anyone joins in. But we as a clan enjoy it. Seeing how there is not easy way to switch mods.. it's a bit of work to switch to SAR. I personally like it.. What hurts though is when you have these mods enabled and no one else joins in.. so if my guys are not around.. I get forced into playing TDM.

As for GRIN.. I think the issue here is.. they where around and around a lot.. they set a standard that we have come to expect. Now it appears they have cut us off, but without explinantion or even a farwell..

I truly hope they are working in the back ground and going to produce a patch and expansion (which I would also payfor)

GRAW 2 also came out a few nickles short of success. There who view point was.. we will give you the tools to mod the game but we will only give you the barebones to start with.

All they had to do, which seemed to be somewhat easy (kept in the right context of course) was deliever what TRR and SAR and the other mods have offered.. Random respawns, Mission maps as MM and Co-Op maps..

If UBI/GRIN would have delievered these from the start I truly think this game would have taken off.

If UBI/GRIn would have delievered this as GRAW1 it would have taken off for sure.. but now you have games like QUake Wars, Crysis, World in Conflect etc... coming out and no proposed future support for GRAW2.

I will keep playing it because I enjoy it and I enjoy playing with some of the hardcore fans.. ROCO and his AFZ group, Core, XE, 30+ .. just to name a few off the top of my head.. but as I can see via XFIRE.. peeps are starting to drift away.

Before on the GRAW XFIRE group it was top to bottom GRAW2 .. now I see really great peeps playign other games.. it's a sad time..

But something tells me, althought the GRAW2 world still thrives on XBOX and PS .. I see it drifting in to the silent night.. Not the legacy I was hoping for and hopefully GRIN was hoping for? But then again.. get in it make hte money and get on to someting new and continue the cycle.. The mighty dollar rules the world..