Graw 2 is a Great Game

[Cell]

TDM is ok, but it is very cut and dry..... almost boring. I realized this the other night matching. Really, all you have to do is get one kill as a team and camp it out. The lack of an objective really does make this game a run and gun free for all in the public TDM servers.

Now HH, good gametype, not as popular as it should be

Seige, played on a few maps, not really into it...eh

RvsA....ok for a change up, but.............

CSAR sounds promising, will have to check it out.

Remember serverside gametypes from GR1? Made hosting different games much easier. PLayer hosting a game just needed to drop the gametype file(s) into the appropriate folder and now anyone who joins can play that gametype.

When a player hosted GR1 you can maybe play Seige on Embassy 1 round unlimited respawns with a 20 minute round 3 sec invulnerability, then oh, you guys want to play HH 0 respawns no invulnerability?, ok, lemme change that, simple as 1,2,3 10 seconds later, loading up Domination no Gl's on Trainwreck?, now maybe a little bit of SAR snipers only on Red Square....you get the picture, on the fly game changing as simple as it gets. That's missing.

The main fault of new modded gametypes and maps is not the modders fault at all. Again its a game design issue. No auto download kills any chance of the regular gamer from going, oh, lemme try this server. The fact that you have to now shut down your game, search for the mod, dl it, install it, restart GRAW2, re-find the server and join, hoping the map/gametype you just searched for and dl'd is still running, really puts the Noonan on these mods taking off.

Last night I played CS:Source with my buddy. Now granted CS is fairly gay, fun sometimes, but it has some major design +'s that game developers should look at. To be fair to GRAW2 , CS should not even be able to hold GRAW 2's jockstrap, but look how many people play it.

a few off the top of my head that make me say, damn I wish GRAW2 had that.

1. In game VOIP, with the ability to mute it if you want.

2. Friends browser in game, and the ability to click on your friend, and instantly join him in game.

3. Auto download, install and join without having to re-boot the game. THis alone lets me join any room I want to at any time, without ever worrying about what I have installed.

4. Objective based TvT MP gameplay.

Not saying CS is a great game at all, feature wise it is pretty nice.

We all know of the faults of GRAW2, many to list and it has beaten like a dead horse. Many of them are just disappointing because they are little nuances that were loved and made this series something different, and for some reason these features have been left out or forgotten during development.

There are many many positives too, but none of them are "wow, holy s**t features that make someone completely sucked in. The lack of news on anything to look for is very discouraging, and there is a list of new and potentially exciting games on the horizon.... Grin/Ubi needs to do something soon, or there may not be a recovery for this title.

[Invisible]

Also my 2d favorite mode is Recon vs Assult(sorry for advance and secure,i wanted to try it but servers are empty )

And yes rugg is right. the 1st year of GR1 was terrible. 1st patch solved some issues , but most were resolved with DS

Lets hope in an expansion pack then to fix our issues

Well, I don't think the issue is a lack of publicity, because the number of players seems to be decreasing. A lack of publicity might explain why there are not more players, but it does not explain why there appears to be fewer. People that have the game don't need a commercial to remind them that they have it.

I agree,no lack of publicity,because promotions do also the xbox360 and the pes3 version to the tittle.Someone who has Pc will learn the game title for consoles.They appear fewer because of lack of support,fixing the bugs,and no new staff,like the xbox360.

I do miss domination from GRAW1.

better the tdm,way better.

Grin where are you !!

[Cangaroo.TNT]

Seeing how there is not easy way to switch mods.. it's a bit of work to switch to SAR.

Whoa! The files are self contained. You should just have to add the maps to the rotation. You should not have to do anything else to run CSAR or AAS maps.

Also my 2d favorite mode is Recon vs Assult(sorry for advance and secure,i wanted to try it but servers are empty )

Well, if you want to try it, you can host it yourself on a LAN. Set the start condition to "When server is ready" and you can run through them by yourself. You'll at least get a feel for how they work.

[Poita]

I guess there is no garentee that games, like movies, will get better over time. It's not all science.

I'm still amazed that AI in games is no better than it was ten years ago.

Was [GR] an anomaly then, an accidentally sublime game that, even with flaws, galvanised a massive and dedicated community?

Man people go on about this game or that game,including the GRAWs, and how they are just 'different' from [GR] but 'just as good'. So far, in the last seven years, not one single game has come alone that has captured our imagination and passion as [GR] did. I personally think it will not happen again for a very long time. There is just too much distraction with pleasing the masses and channeling energy into the look rather than the feel of a game.

Some day though, maybe out of the blue, a game will come along that will make us [GR] lovers happy again. I just hope i don't grow out of gaming by the time it happens.

[JJUK]

All good posts but you all know the game is slowly dying, it is a shame but a fact. Maybe its our fault cause all the changes made from graw1 to graw 2 didnt come from me or anyone i know, maybe this is the game some have chosen through there posts that grin picked up on, who knows.

Facts

admin tasks need a facelift a major one.

i want to pick my own kit.

urban maps (sniper alley at the mo even i use one know)

easy modding interface (we at tug have tried but no joy just to damn hard)

news on whats happening with the patches/ when they are coming and whats in them.

[Colin]

Ill keep this short.

The game is a good game takeing into consideration the time that was spent on it.

As far as patches go we will get another one to make the game better.

[Pulaski]

[GR] - UBI browser and Gamespy browser for pregaem chat and an opportunity to find/hook up matches.

UBI BROWSER DID NOTHING FOR MATCHING. WAS USUALLY JUST A WHOLE BUNCH OF KIDS FIGHTING ON IT AND EVENTUALLY IT GOT HACKED AND NEVER WAS FIXED

UBI lobby was the back bone for finding matches for TaG...10's of thousands of matches were setup using the lobby. Once the lobby chat was stop matches dropped.

I will agree there was a number of kids in the lobby, and later it was hacked to death, good or bad it played a major roll in GR.

[Lightspeed]

gamespy arcade pregame for [GR] was an abdolute necessity to set up matches.

when the IGS League was up and running for about 3 years, during its peak, the winning clans were playing up to 200 matches in a 3 month cycle. play a match - 40-60 minutes, report a win or loss in 5 minutes, start another match 5 minutes later.

that just couldnt happen in its current state.

ive actually noticed a nasty server bug and im sure others have - server shows 5 to 8 ppl in there after a browser update - you jump in the server and noones there.

and the multiple clan matches - 4 clans in one match. awesome.

[WhiteKnight77]

I rarely used GameSpy or Ubi to find GR games, I posted the IP here and people joined on my server.

I have said time and again that we are our own worst enemy when it comes to this type of game. People say that they want options and one is respawns but ya know what? I see everyone complaining that they can only fine respawn games on servers. It's your own damned fault if ya ask me. I also have asked if we really need TDM in a game like this and it's always the same answer, "We want to be able to ladder with this game." Well, you can ladder with any gametype be it HH, SAR or some other gametype. Heck, let the devs develop new game types, but on the same token, the devs need to have more than one or 2 gametypes on release.

Now, GRAW 2 does have it's flaws and while I tried to impress upon Bo that GRAW needs to advance stuff, it needs to keep what GR had too. Now we all know that Ubi pulls the strings in regards to it's properties and since they pay GRIN (note that it is all in capital letters), they have to listen to Ubi and not me nor anyone else. Should GRIN have included more gametypes? Yes. Should GRIN have added direct IP support? Yes. Should GRIN given the community everything it asked for? No.

Games need more than 10 hours of gameplay and just a small handful of gametypes for online play. MP maps should use all maps that are available in the SP campaign with a couple of dedicated MP only maps for gametypes other than Coop campaign missions.

What I really hope is that GRIN will use GRAW/2 as a learning tool for any first person shooters they make in the future. We do not need a game with graphics that make computers puke a transistor, we want games that play great and will keep our attention for more than 2 to 5 months. They have the makings of a pretty decent offering with GRAW/2, yet as many of you can attest, there are some things lacking.

[Slow]

The All Seeing Eye........... those were the good days..........

Slow

[JJUK]

Ill keep this short.

The game is a good game takeing into consideration the time that was spent on it.

As far as patches go we will get another one to make the game better.

Hey Colin they released the game and as far as we are concerned it is what it is, if they didnt have enough time then they should of told ubi that, but they didnt poor management eh, no backbone, its money money money all the time.

Yes i beleive we have another patch coming and you do say this will make it better, but better for who, me i want something different to the next guy, you want co-op someone else wants sp the only thing i see we all agree on is as per my last post

More maps either in co-op tvt or sp a decent mix i would go as far as to say at least 10 and open all maps to all gametypes.

Kit choice unrestricted but with admin choice = server side.

After game chat.

Easy server controls.

Modding so total noobs can do it.

There are no bugs left (major ones anyway) its all about the content i would say the patch that is coming or not, when and at what time /date is gonna make or break the game.

And they are facts because everyone i speak to is waiting on the new release of another game instead of playing this game for fun/matches.

Edited September 27, 2007 by JJUK

[Colin]

I rarely used GameSpy or Ubi to find GR games, I posted the IP here and people joined on my server.

I have said time and again that we are our own worst enemy when it comes to this type of game. People say that they want options and one is respawns but ya know what? I see everyone complaining that they can only fine respawn games on servers. It's your own damned fault if ya ask me. I also have asked if we really need TDM in a game like this and it's always the same answer, "We want to be able to ladder with this game." Well, you can ladder with any gametype be it HH, SAR or some other gametype. Heck, let the devs develop new game types, but on the same token, the devs need to have more than one or 2 gametypes on release.

Now, GRAW 2 does have it's flaws and while I tried to impress upon Bo that GRAW needs to advance stuff, it needs to keep what GR had too. Now we all know that Ubi pulls the strings in regards to it's properties and since they pay GRIN (note that it is all in capital letters), they have to listen to Ubi and not me nor anyone else. Should GRIN have included more gametypes? Yes. Should GRIN have added direct IP support? Yes. Should GRIN given the community everything it asked for? No.

Games need more than 10 hours of gameplay and just a small handful of gametypes for online play. MP maps should use all maps that are available in the SP campaign with a couple of dedicated MP only maps for gametypes other than Coop campaign missions.

What I really hope is that GRIN will use GRAW/2 as a learning tool for any first person shooters they make in the future. We do not need a game with graphics that make computers puke a transistor, we want games that play great and will keep our attention for more than 2 to 5 months. They have the makings of a pretty decent offering with GRAW/2, yet as many of you can attest, there are some things lacking.

Yes as always you speak our thoughts and wishes.

[ROCO*AFZ*]

The All Seeing Eye........... those were the good days..........

Slow

That's what i used for GR1... and xfire.

Most ladders didn't use UBI (maybe tag was different but i didn't like tag nor ladder there)

TCZ and the rumble matches, usually were found by looking at the ladder, seeing the server's ip, going in and asking them to match, or posting a challenge on there forum.

[Lightspeed]

rocoafz - the method you speak of must have been the slowest way ever to get a match.

did u get a match once every 2 or 3 days?

you know without wanting to take a dig at any ladder or anything like that, the reality was the number of matches that were obtained using the IGS method meant that in say a 3 month cycle a Clan and individual players in that Clan would have competed in a match up to and indeed over 200 times.

on the flipside, a Clan where you have to book a match and play once every couple of days - means you end up only playing 50 times or so.

it was no surprise then that most of the IGS Clans were accused of cheating when they shifted to TWL and other Leagues - my clan was banned after only a few sessions. Those Leagues just couldnt understand how their best Clans could get raped so easily every single match. the fact is, they only had 25% the level of experience.

now why do i raise this point?

bcoz a system whereby you have to pm a forum to book a match is ridiculous and antiquidated - this is 2007 - you should be able to hook up matches as quickly as another clan is looking for a match.

and how do you do that - with pregame browser chat rooms - where you can see and talk to and book a match live.

GRAW2 has gone back a decade in its current format......

[JJUK]

Hey guys come on, its been said before the only good ladders of the time were TWL and TCZ, or maybe they were more mature ladders ie. working guys who had limited time to play or clans that took gaming a little more seriosly, well matches anyways. We didnt get involved in any other ladders and only went into ubi to see how it was going and most times some fool had hacked the chat console.

But saying that it obviously was good for some.

I cant see Graw2 going that way its not the game the majority play. Thats a good thing but we need more than we have got.

[ROCO*AFZ*]

rocoafz - the method you speak of must have been the slowest way ever to get a match.

did u get a match once every 2 or 3 days?

you know without wanting to take a dig at any ladder or anything like that, the reality was the number of matches that were obtained using the IGS method meant that in say a 3 month cycle a Clan and individual players in that Clan would have competed in a match up to and indeed over 200 times.

on the flipside, a Clan where you have to book a match and play once every couple of days - means you end up only playing 50 times or so.

it was no surprise then that most of the IGS Clans were accused of cheating when they shifted to TWL and other Leagues - my clan was banned after only a few sessions. Those Leagues just couldnt understand how their best Clans could get raped so easily every single match. the fact is, they only had 25% the level of experience.

now why do i raise this point?

bcoz a system whereby you have to pm a forum to book a match is ridiculous and antiquidated - this is 2007 - you should be able to hook up matches as quickly as another clan is looking for a match.

and how do you do that - with pregame browser chat rooms - where you can see and talk to and book a match live.

GRAW2 has gone back a decade in its current format......

Actually it wasn't. If a Clan's server had peeps on, they would match. Simple as that. You could do tons of pickup ladder matching because every clan wanted to match. When you finished one, you just went to another. There were also scheduled ladders. (Who said TCZ and such had just one ladder)

I have probably about 1000 GR1 matches under my belt (at least) and only because we were late getting into the rumble.

GRAW 2 could be like this also... but there is only 1 Site hosting it which for North America only has 2 ladders.

I think GRAW2 needs a tournament. That might gather some interest.

[*WAR*Catscan]

rocoafz - the method you speak of must have been the slowest way ever to get a match.

did u get a match once every 2 or 3 days?

you know without wanting to take a dig at any ladder or anything like that, the reality was the number of matches that were obtained using the IGS method meant that in say a 3 month cycle a Clan and individual players in that Clan would have competed in a match up to and indeed over 200 times.

on the flipside, a Clan where you have to book a match and play once every couple of days - means you end up only playing 50 times or so.

it was no surprise then that most of the IGS Clans were accused of cheating when they shifted to TWL and other Leagues - my clan was banned after only a few sessions. Those Leagues just couldnt understand how their best Clans could get raped so easily every single match. the fact is, they only had 25% the level of experience.

now why do i raise this point?

bcoz a system whereby you have to pm a forum to book a match is ridiculous and antiquidated - this is 2007 - you should be able to hook up matches as quickly as another clan is looking for a match.

and how do you do that - with pregame browser chat rooms - where you can see and talk to and book a match live.

GRAW2 has gone back a decade in its current format......

Actually it wasn't. If a Clan's server had peeps on, they would match. Simple as that. You could do tons of pickup ladder matching because every clan wanted to match. When you finished one, you just went to another. There were also scheduled ladders. (Who said TCZ and such had just one ladder)

I have probably about 1000 GR1 matches under my belt (at least) and only because we were late getting into the rumble.

GRAW 2 could be like this also... but there is only 1 Site hosting it which for North America only has 2 ladders.

I think GRAW2 needs a tournament. That might gather some interest.

Excellent idea!

I'd be willing to help organize or were you thinking of a sponsor such as TWL?

[ruggbutt]

rocoafz - the method you speak of must have been the slowest way ever to get a match.

Must have been. We only had 2000 (yeh, two thousand) on TCZ alone. How many you guys have? You could schedule matches by the challenge system, ICQ a squad leader and get a match or what happened mostly is someone would hop in a squad server and say one word: Match? And it was on. I'm not sure which ladders are the good ones today, but TCZ and TWL were the only viable options (and Rumble while it was up). As for the skills of other ladders, well there were ladder v ladder matches. Rumble/TCZ teams usually won those.

The best thing about TCZ was if you got caught cheating on another ladder or another server you weren't playing there. Period. We saw teams get kicked from TCZ for flagrant cheating (retlock, SIFF and once speedhacking) and they'd show up on the other ladders. Heck, I busted half a dozen TWL teams cheating on our server in fun games, but the rules there were basically "It's ok to cheat as long as it ain't a match". Stop by our forums to see those teams admit to hacking and that it was ok cuz they didn't use their real clan tags. We stayed on TCZ until it died for that very reason, they didn't put up w/any BS. And you could get a pretty good match, there were 90+ squads over there during GR's heyday. Many of the squads showed up on TCZ after playing in the RAV, XCal, BSR, AOD, CDN, MaD, et al servers for fun games.

[C9.Constantine]

rocoafz - the method you speak of must have been the slowest way ever to get a match.

did u get a match once every 2 or 3 days?

you know without wanting to take a dig at any ladder or anything like that, the reality was the number of matches that were obtained using the IGS method meant that in say a 3 month cycle a Clan and individual players in that Clan would have competed in a match up to and indeed over 200 times.

on the flipside, a Clan where you have to book a match and play once every couple of days - means you end up only playing 50 times or so.

it was no surprise then that most of the IGS Clans were accused of cheating when they shifted to TWL and other Leagues - my clan was banned after only a few sessions. Those Leagues just couldnt understand how their best Clans could get raped so easily every single match. the fact is, they only had 25% the level of experience.

now why do i raise this point?

bcoz a system whereby you have to pm a forum to book a match is ridiculous and antiquidated - this is 2007 - you should be able to hook up matches as quickly as another clan is looking for a match.

and how do you do that - with pregame browser chat rooms - where you can see and talk to and book a match live.

GRAW2 has gone back a decade in its current format......

Actually it wasn't. If a Clan's server had peeps on, they would match. Simple as that. You could do tons of pickup ladder matching because every clan wanted to match. When you finished one, you just went to another. There were also scheduled ladders. (Who said TCZ and such had just one ladder)

I have probably about 1000 GR1 matches under my belt (at least) and only because we were late getting into the rumble.

GRAW 2 could be like this also... but there is only 1 Site hosting it which for North America only has 2 ladders.

I think GRAW2 needs a tournament. That might gather some interest.

Excellent idea!

I'd be willing to help organize or were you thinking of a sponsor such as TWL?

The easiest possible way to solve this 'problem' is to get every single GR:AW 2 clan on mIRC on gamesurge.net - TWL already has channels in there in which they provide support for a lot of things.

Team.Hot has got a channel in there, so does CLONE but since no GRAW2 clans are in it - we decided not to idle in it anymore.

[Pulaski]

Must have been. We only had 2000 (yeh, two thousand) on TCZ alone. How many you guys have?

I can't speak for LigHtsPeEd, but my team went way over 2000 matches, if I had to guess I would say around 6000 matches in a two year period.

SS from web.archive:

http://www.dmegaming.com/match/209_matches.JPG

Look at the number of matches the top five teams had, and note the over 200 matches a day.

Note: TaG used a 12 week cycle most of the time.

Edited September 27, 2007 by Pulaski

[ROCO*AFZ*]

I forgot about the ladder vs ladder matches lol. But yeah basically what rugg said... you dropped in a clan server said match... if they couldn't you went to another. About 90% of the time they said it was on and you either went to the match server or they cleared out there public server for play.

TCZ also didn't allow tiptoeing which some ladders let go. Right now TWL is about the only 1 for GRAW2. There are about 15 clans though laddering in TDM and the Power had about 28 i think.

[IrishStout]

The TCZ vs TWL where classic battles.. I was involved in a few of those battles and had a blast. I thnk it was 32 v 32 if memory serves me well?

Being on both TWL and TCZ with my then clan FMJ (FullMentalJacket) we where never ever short on finding a clan to match, unless they where already matching and we had to head to bed.

[Poita]

Igs sure was convenient for those of us in rather less organized clans.

I've never enjoyed online gaming anywhere near as much when i spent time in the hayday of [GR].

By the way. What's tiptoeing?

[Peace]

By the way. What's tiptoeing?

For [GR], that is a long and complicated story. Let's just say its a combination of keystrokes triggering a certain movement "neckstretch" to gain advantage over opponents. There were certain "illegal" such at most ladders which made the tiptoeing player able to shoot opponents over e.g. walls but could not get hit himself.

[JASGripen]

bcoz a system whereby you have to pm a forum to book a match is ridiculous and antiquidated - this is 2007 - you should be able to hook up matches as quickly as another clan is looking for a match.

and how do you do that - with pregame browser chat rooms - where you can see and talk to and book a match live.

GRAW2 has gone back a decade in its current format......

We who got rather much to do with our job and family don't see speed of getting matches as a primary, or even secondary parameter. I and most in my clan want predictability. I need my calender top make room for gaming, I want at least a week advance warning. So I and many older (!) players, certainly some of us who played GR, are perfectly fine with message boards and such slow measures of arranging a match. YMMV as usually, I just state an opinion which I don't find uncommon.