Ruin Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 I've been out of the hardware scene for longer than I care to admit... and my PC is older than I care to admit also (back when my ATI Radeon 9500Pro was top-line). Anyway, I'm going to break down and finally invest in a good, high-end machine to last me many many moons. I'm budgeting around $2500 for the whole thing - including OS, Keyboard, Monitor etc. I know some of you enjoy doing this kind of thing for fun, so I thought you'd be able to help me out. Since I built my last PC almost X years ago, processors and video cards have gone haywire and I can't keep up. But I know some of you do. So... Here's what I want: 1TB of space (Maxtor HD if we can) A large widescreen monitor 22" - 26" Kick-ass graphics - dual cards if need be. I'm lost in this area, and need some serious help. I've run ATI for the past 10 years, but don't mind a move to NVidia A fast processor: 3.0+GHZ 4GB RAM A DVD-ROM and DVD+RW drive. And this case. Unless someone recommends something better. What I'm hoping you all can do is build me one very intense tower for around $1900. I am capable of physically building my own PC. I'm not entirely dumb to this just been out of it for a while (for some reason I thought cars would be a better choice, ha!). I prefer to shop on NewEgg (had nothing but good luck, success and lightning fast shipping from them) so if you can find the parts there, that'd be ideal. I'm not buying ASAP, once I return from Ft. Knox - so if you over-budget, that's okay because prices will drop. Thanks in advance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whisper_44 Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 4GB RAM Can Windows recognize >3GB? I understood that there was a gap in the 32-bit OS and difficulties with large chunks of memory?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruin Posted August 21, 2007 Author Share Posted August 21, 2007 ??? That's why I need help. Can Vista recognize 4GB? What about OSX? I'm flexible between the two, but would prefer Windows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutlink Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 Core 2 Duo 6850 (3.0GHz) - $330 Antec P180 Case ($130) Lite-On DVD Burner ($31.00/ea) Seagate 500MB drive ($120/ea) Patriot 2x2GB DDR2 RAM ($255) Samsung 226BW 22" WS Monitor ($320) Asus P5N32-E SLI Plus 650i Motherboard ($180) OCZ 700w Power Supply ($135) EVGA 8800GTS 640MB ($395) X-Fi XtremeGamer Fatal1ty ($146) Assuming you buy 2 of the DVD burners (hard to find just a DVD drive and it's so cheap anyway) and 2 of the hard drives (RAID them to get 1TB) you're total for all this would be $2193 before shipping (unless you go with the case you selected, then it's another $30 or so). Not bad EDIT: Throw in a high end mouse ($50), keyboard ($20), and Windows Vista ($340) comes out to $2603 before shipping. If you want to cut costs down you can order parts from various places instead (ZipZoomFly has the CPU for I think it was $290 for example). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 LOL, nice work Nutlink! I'm building a similar system sooooon... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARDelta Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 4GB RAM Can Windows recognize >3GB? I understood that there was a gap in the 32-bit OS and difficulties with large chunks of memory?? More info here, http://support.microsoft.com/kb/929605. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutlink Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 Yeah, I've been debating upgrading my rig too (and using my current one for a server). Most of those parts up there I either already have or want for my own upgrade, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whisper_44 Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 Thank you ARDelta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROCO*AFZ* Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 Quad core 6600 - ghz means nothing now... but the new quads run at 24C idle with just a fan and are 2.4ghz x 4 cores http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetai...st=pricegrabber 285.00 Thermaltake armor case (pick doesn't show it but it has a 250mm window fan) http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetai...ductCode=371303 109.00 Thermaltake 1200 watt powersupply http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetai...ctCode=10005892 395.00 Evga 8800 GTX - You won't have to edit the xml to get high settings in GRAW2 as it's 640mb! http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetai...ductCode=322843 529.00 X-fi gamer http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetai...ductCode=290248 138.00 Seagate SATAII 320GB drive with 16mb cache (maxtor has to high of failure rates... would not recommend) http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetai...ctCode=10005273 86.00 Asus 18x SATA lightscribe burner with nero 7 (works with vista) http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetai...ctCode=10005170 40.00 Asus p5N32-E-SLI mainboard. it's a 680I chipset with 3 pci express slots! (newer then plus version) http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetai...ductCode=247122 209.00 Kingston 2gb dual channel kit. (you don't need 4gb yet but at this price it will be cheap later) http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/Search.jsp 119.00 Vista 64 bit Home Premium (will support over 4gb of ram) http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetai...ductCode=604698 109.00 razer diamondback plasma gaming mouse http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetai...ductCode=212902 45.00 Logitech G15 Keyboard (macro keys and LCD that you can get a free module for for ts) http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/Search.jsp 72.00 Viewsonic 22inch wide screen http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetai...ctCode=10005185 349.00 $2485.00 without some of the rebates. All components have good warranties. Viewsonic... 3 years avanced replacement Seagate 5 years Asus 3 years Evga 3 years Kingston lifetime It's my system basically minus the LCD ( i have a 19 non wide) I play at 1280x1024 all settings maxed at 130 fps on our server. burdened servers i get about 60 (when there are 32 players) You also have another PCI express to add another GTX say next year if you want and a 3rd one to set a gpu in for physics (gpu as in vid card) If gpu physics take off. This pc would kick ######! Oh and i know all components work in vista as i have it I chose the same place so you can get free shipping. I sold 2 of these at work last week but with an 8600GT (they cut some cost) and a thermaltake junior which is a smaller case + only a 500 wattPS. through my work though shipping would go over your cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruin Posted August 21, 2007 Author Share Posted August 21, 2007 Dude, you guys are freakin awesome! A few questions: I want 1TB of space, but Nutlink says I need RAID to do so. I'm not overly familiar with RAID. I've never worked with it and did a brief study of it. Can someone give me the skinny on RAID? Also, ROCO, can you explain a little further about the cores and how they work with processors? Oh, here's the parts list of the one I built for myself back in March, forgot I had this... what do you all think? NZXT Zero Black/Silver Aluminum ATX Full Tower Computer Case - Retail $149.99 (6) Thermaltake A1926 120mm Blue LED Case Fan - Retail $62.93 ASUS M2N-SLI Deluxe Socket AM2 NVIDIA nForce 570 SLI MCP ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail $134.99 (2) EVGA 320-P2-N811-AR GeForce 8800GTS 320MB 320-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail $579.98 COOLMAX CW-650T EPS12V 650W Aluminum ATX v2.01 APFC Power Supply w/ "SLI" - Retail $109.00 AMD Athlon 64 X2 5200+ Windsor 2.6GHz Socket AM2 Processor Model ADA5200CSBOX - Retail $129.99 (4) CORSAIR XMS2 1GB 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Desktop Memory Model CM2X1024-6400 - Retail $244.00 LINKSKEY LKA-CR15B 19-in-1 USB 2.0 Black Card Reader/Writer - Retail $10.99 (2) Maxtor DiamondMax 21 STM3500630AS 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM $199.98 Ideazon Zboard Gaming Wired Keyboard - Retail $43.99 SAMSUNG 225BW Black 22" 5 ms (GTG) DVI Widescreen LCD Monitor $299.99 Sony NEC Optiarc Black IDE DVD-ROM Drive Model DDU1615/B2s - OEM $17.99 Creative 70SB046A00000 7.1 Channels PCI Interface Sound Blaster X-Fi XtremeGamer Fatal1ty Professional Series - Retail $145.99 Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate DVD - Retail $339.99 Thermaltake CL-P0024 Copper Cooling Heatsink - Retail $49.99 $2,525.78 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutlink Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 You don't need RAID to get 1TB, however it's a lot cheaper ($240 for 2 500GB drives vs $300 for a 1TB drive...and the raid will be faster). Installing RAID is REALLY easy, at least on XP (haven't tried it on Vista). In XP you need a floppy drive to install raid. When installing the OS it'll say at the bottom "Press F7 to install RAID drivers" (I can't remember if it's F7 or some other F button). After that just follow the on screen directions. Also, I have to disagree with Roco on the quad core CPU. Very few things right now make full use of dual cores. Even fewer make use of quad cores. As it stands dual core is the sweet spot for gaming, even if quad core is the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruin Posted August 22, 2007 Author Share Posted August 22, 2007 Very few things right now make full use of dual cores. Even fewer make use of quad cores. As it stands dual core is the sweet spot for gaming, even if quad core is the future. Ah, but if I plan on building a rig to last several (like 7) years, would a quad-core be wise? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutlink Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 I don't know if you really could build a rig this day and age that would last that long to be honest. If that's the case, you might be better off going quad core, but I don't think I have a good answer to that. If you do go with the E6850 over the quad core you could always up to a quad core in the future as well though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROCO*AFZ* Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 Very few things right now make full use of dual cores. Even fewer make use of quad cores. As it stands dual core is the sweet spot for gaming, even if quad core is the future. Ah, but if I plan on building a rig to last several (like 7) years, would a quad-core be wise? Correct... or if you mod.. GRAW2 takes advantage of all the cores... and well vista does to some extent. Adobe photoshop loves it. You need at least 3 drives for raid 5. Do not use raid 0. If it breaks your screwed. You get the total of 2 drives worth of space using 3 so you would have to do 3, 500GB. The quad beats the dual http://www23.tomshardware.com/cpu_2007.htm...8&chart=418 or comes close http://www23.tomshardware.com/cpu_2007.htm...8&chart=421 Note it's only 2.4 and runs cool though. Wins here also http://www23.tomshardware.com/cpu_2007.htm...8&chart=422 The Quad ain't no slouch and is very cool. [url=http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=10005267 = 500GB Seagate. You need 3 for raid 5. If one fails you aren't down and is faster then raid 0 or 1 Puts you over budget though but you will need the big case for all your toys Make sure you get 16mb cache versions even if you don't go with my suggestion. the buffer helps. You could lessen the powersupply to compensate but they you would not have 1200watts of bragging rights. btw think 2-3 years then video card upgrade/add another. at 5 or 6 use it as a gameserver. That was my plan. Oh that case also has a 80mm by the drive bays for exhaust. A 120mm in the back that lights up and a 120mm in the front. + the 250mm in the side with plexiglass. Cores... basically the way intel designed it... the quad is 2 dual cores in one. It allows the PC to handle multiple applications and games at the same time. You can also set the affinity to assign a program to a core. GRAW2 uses about 25% of each core. That means on a single it would be maxed (near 100) and on a dual 50% per core. Basically you can run a lot of crap at the same time LOL! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutlink Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 Side note, those benchmarks aren't a very good comparison. One is for an engine that doesn't support multi-core (the UT2004 comparison) and the 3dMark benchmark isn't something I would go by because it doesn't always reflect real-world performance (of course that's a problem with all benchmarks though). For example in the Quake 4 comparison the E6850 wins by 22.8 fps. In the Prey comparison it wins by 10.6 fps. In Serious Sam 2 it wins by 30.2 fps. In 3DS Max it wins by 9 seconds. In the 3DSMax CPU benchmark it wins by 839 points. It wins the AVG test by 16 seconds. I think it boils down to personal taste though. I would rather go with a faster dual core now and wait a few years for quad core to become mainstream over dual core then upgrade just the CPU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamakazi Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 Make sure you get a good PSU, by that I mean OCZ, Silverstone, PC Power & Cooling. Those are some of the main ones, just make sure you don't skimp on it or if it fries it could fry everything. Oh and go quad, just trust us, go quad core. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRP 56 Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 I think it boils down to personal taste though. I would rather go with a faster dual core now and wait a few years for quad core to become mainstream over dual core then upgrade just the CPU. That it does. E6850 would be the way to go for me. As Nutlink stated,test results sure look excellent and I think Zipzoomfly had it for $280. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROCO*AFZ* Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 I think it boils down to personal taste though. I would rather go with a faster dual core now and wait a few years for quad core to become mainstream over dual core then upgrade just the CPU. That it does. E6850 would be the way to go for me. As Nutlink stated,test results sure look excellent and I think Zipzoomfly had it for $280. The quad is only 5$ more at 285 at zip. At the new price, it just took the E6600's spot which was mainstream, so the mainstream time is now. The q6400 should be rolling out soon which is a smaller quad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoQuarter Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 Well whatever CPU you decide on, don't rely on the Sanyo branded fan/heatsink that Intel bundles. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...alman%2b9700led This thing was a major pain to install but once in my CPU has never topped 25°C under load and with the fan at NDC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROCO*AFZ* Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 Well whatever CPU you decide on, don't rely on the Sanyo branded fan/heatsink that Intel bundles. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...alman%2b9700led This thing was a major pain to install but once in my CPU has never topped 25°C under load and with the fan at NDC. Every since the P4 hperthreading prescott... the fans have been good (i mean after} My quad sits at 37C (it was the 1st revision) and never goes above 41C under load. they can handle 60 before downclocking.. Not bad for no heat pipes. they work well... but they aren't for overclocking. if you do replace the fan... DO NOT LOSE THE OLD ONE. if you were to have to return the CPU to intel they will ask for the # on the fan. Without it you lose your warranty return. I tested the newer quad. 24C under idle. LOL the mainboard was 35. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruin Posted August 22, 2007 Author Share Posted August 22, 2007 Okay, a few questions again. I'm upping my budget some... Anyway, should I pay the extra $170 for the 2.66ghz over the 2.4ghz quad? I read somewhere that the 6600 can't be OCed as well as the 6700. Anyone know of some truth to this? PhysX Cards... worth it? Of course I'd wait for the PCIe version, but should I really look at this? Video Cards. Help me out here some. What's better to do, get one big honking one and run it, or run two slightly smaller ones with SLI? Thanks again guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROCO*AFZ* Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 Truthfully i don't overclock mine... but the higher you go, the longer you won't have to upgrade. Currently you probably wouldn't see much difference stock but down the road you might. I'll have to check with Asus to make sure the board supports that cpu outta the box without a flash though... as you may have to use a less processor to flash it. q6600 is suppported out of the box in my config. (also note later, processors may come down even more for the highends) Did you get what i ment by raid? Raid 0 = 2 drives combined for a total amount of both drives added... aka (2) 500 GB would give you 1TB. If one drive fails though all is lost as there is no fault tolerance. It is Fast because it stripes. Raid 1 = 2 drives mirrored. You get the total of 1 drive. You would need 2 TB drives to get 1 TB. There is fault tolerance as if one drive fails you still have the other (copies to both at same time) this is the slowest) Raid 5 = 3 drives Striped with parity. You get the total of 3 drives. If one fails you are not down and can rebuild the raid. It is fast because it strips. it would take 3 500GB drives for 1 TB. Plus side... you can add to it adding a 4th drive (if not a hot spare) would give you 1.5TB down the road. Raid 10 = 2 raid 5's mirrored. High fault tolerance. Crazy config. Raid 5 is the best choice and saves you if you ever had 1 drive fail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruin Posted August 22, 2007 Author Share Posted August 22, 2007 Is RAID really necessary? Can't I hook up two SATA drives and be done with it? Rather than spend $120 for a 500GB drive that just sits there? Also, I'm compiling a parts list right now. I'm getting there. I have all the parts I want, some I'm just not certain what to do with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROCO*AFZ* Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 Is RAID really necessary? Can't I hook up two SATA drives and be done with it? Rather than spend $120 for a 500GB drive that just sits there? Also, I'm compiling a parts list right now. I'm getting there. I have all the parts I want, some I'm just not certain what to do with. Yes you can. It just won't all be one big drive. if one fails you lose half your info. Not as fast as raid but way faster then a mirror. The drive doesn't just sit though... lol the data is striped across all 3. But only 2 are needed to access it. (raid 5) The confusion might be ... we were thinking you wanted to see 1 TB in your disk manager. instead you will see 2, 500GB drives. Windows under raid see's both drives as 1 since it's done at the hardware level. Post what you decided upon. btw i'm building that 2nd quad core we sold as i type here at work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARDelta Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 Video Cards. Help me out here some. What's better to do, get one big honking one and run it, or run two slightly smaller ones with SLI? I'd say get the best single card solution you can afford, e. g. 8800 GTS (640MB), 8800 GTX or 8800 Ultra. The performance of these cards by themselves is very good. Then halfway through the lifecycle of your computer, when the price of your video card is less than half of what it is now, you can add another one for SLI for not much money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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