RvsA/ Spawn Camping Awareness Day?

[Easton]

The camping complaint has been an "issue" for every game I've ever seen where you had respawns. If you only get one life, then you spend it carefully. And never have I seen anyone complain about spawn camping in no respawn games. Except for that guy who never leaves his own spawn. These "awareness" threads crack me up because it's a bunch of people either complaining or (in the case of those that feel self important) making blanket statements such as "this is how things are". There's a whole bunch of grey in between black and white.

Then do not be a hypocrite and post in them then. It is obvious that you go out of your way to disagree with anything we do. That is fine, we have recruited many a fan in our past. Judging by your post count, time on this forum, and the reaction from others to you on this forum and outside of it, I believe you feel this is your home and we have come in and dirtied the carpet. Sorry you feel that way, we would love to be your friend. We are friendly people, really! We just want the community to talk about this game. It has a lot of competition potential, and we would like to see it go forward... you know, more than just a TWL ladder game, which it is capable of if some of the community would move forward and make it so. IMHO.

On another thought, for those who haven't played it, no respawn Hamburger Hill really would fix a lot of complaints. Camp in your spawn -- lose. Run-n-gun -- lose. Play aggressively but carefully -- win.

I would Love to try this mode in a scrim. I truly believe this mode would be more fun that TDM, IMHO. Also, for those maps that are unbalanced in terms of distance from spawn, the points carry over between rounds, so each team gets the same shot I believe.

Edited August 21, 2007 by Easton

[IrishStout]

I'll chime in for what it's worth...

If you have a game type that has another objective other then just eliminating the other team, you will remove the camping. That or one team will always win. Does it require more stradegy? That can be highly debateable.

To help restrict the 'so called' camping aspect of the game, you need two things.. 1) Change the lenght of the match time, make it 7 or 5 minutes (that way games are over faster) 2) Figure out someway to decide a tie... maybe a shoot out in the middle of the map???

Personally, I enjoy TDM and enjoy the suspense and build up. I think someone mentioned earlier on.. you capitilize on the other team mistake.. wiether it be they move to quick or sit to long.. either can be considered a mistake..

But one thing I have found.. and I have already played in a few excellent 2-3 hour matches on GRAW2 (AOD, AFZ, KI, CLONE) interesting enough as the night gets later mistake are more prone because people get impatient.. it happend to us just yesterday night.. we had a guy that had to go and he thought he would take a chance on the last map for hte win.. he went and got hit.. I tried ot cover his loss and got hit myself... then we where behind the eight ball.. no one but ourselves put us there..

Anyway, I don't think we should be coming down so hard on the Hot guys, they are just voicing an opionion and trying to get us trying different game types.. I like objective type game types.. just not really for matches because I do not like respawns and more objective oriented game types don;t work well with no respawns.. or are over before the game ever really begins..

[ruggbutt]

It is obvious that you go out of your way to disagree with anything we do.

Stop w/the persecution complex, Mary. If you post something I agree with I'll say so. I disagree with many different people about many things on these forums. Go read any of my posts in the GRAW1 section. I disagreed w/99% of the people posting here.

You're flattering yourself if you think that you even make a blip on my radar Easton. I don't care what your (or anyone elses) join dates are or what you post here. But don't think that you're so important that on an open forum that your opinions are always correct and that you should have the last word. What's nice about boards like this is discussion. With that comes opinions that differ from yours. That's how the adult world works.

I'll let you in on a little bit of info: Our RvsA server is up at this very moment. The objective part of RvsA is awesome. I think that if you removed the tagging and had no respawns that it would even be more intense than TDM. That's my opinion like it or not.

Edited August 21, 2007 by ruggbutt

[Cell]

I'm down to try some HH. It could be a step in the right direction. I do like TDM, but I also see how it is non-objective based (besides having more kills than the opposing team), and an objective would just add to the experience. The only problem with RvsA I see with matching, is the respawns. I don't like that you can kill someone in a match, and they come back looking for you in 30 seconds. I also understand the balance, that each side will have the re-spawns, but I still am on the fence. Rugg has a point about the tagging as well. Not sure what I think about that either. Did enjoy our games of RvsA the other day [HOT], btw.

HH could be a great mode for matching...no spawns. I have suggested over and over a similar gametype to HH that keeps getting shot down by everybody, but it is basically HH tweaked for match play. I don't see why it is resisted so much......of course someone would have to create the modded gametype, but it really was loads of fun. MP Gametypes Check the first one I listed. Of course....strategy and tactics become way more involved when there are multiple/random insertion zones. Figuring out where the enemy is starting from becomes part of the game as well, and is needed to boost the excitement factor of MP.

Edited August 21, 2007 by Cell*AFZ*

[[ZA]Zenjant]

Although we haven't "matched" in GRAW2, the game is pretty much the same as the old GR in which we have hundreds of matches under our belts.

There is always a way to beat the camper mentality. Sometimes it takes a couple of losses to figure out a strategy that will work, but that's how it goes. You learn with the losses.

I am not going to push my opinion on games with re-spawns, or the fact that big red floating diamonds on people is not my cup of tea, but to complain that people are hiding in bushes, as if this gives them an instant win or a super power that can't be beat seems bizarre to me.

If you can't find a counter to guys hiding in bushes, then maybe some of your strategy needs to be re-thought.

I'm not bashing anybody for liking a game mode more then another, and I actually like mixing things up and playing some RvsA once in awhile, but to say that you are all about the RvsA because some teams camp, and you can't do anything about it seems like a problem with your squads tactics as opposed to a problem with the game mode.

[ROCO*AFZ*]

Zenjant' date='Aug 21 2007, 12:28 PM' post='490190']

Although we haven't "matched" in GRAW2, the game is pretty much the same as the old GR in which we have hundreds of matches under our belts.

There is always a way to beat the camper mentality. Sometimes it takes a couple of losses to figure out a strategy that will work, but that's how it goes. You learn with the losses.

I am not going to push my opinion on games with re-spawns, or the fact that big red floating diamonds on people is not my cup of tea, but to complain that people are hiding in bushes, as if this gives them an instant win or a super power that can't be beat seems bizarre to me.

If you can't find a counter to guys hiding in bushes, then maybe some of your strategy needs to be re-thought.

I'm not bashing anybody for liking a game mode more then another, and I actually like mixing things up and playing some RvsA once in awhile, but to say that you are all about the RvsA because some teams camp, and you can't do anything about it seems like a problem with your squads tactics as opposed to a problem with the game mode.

Very good post.

[[HOT]Keyser]

Maybe i'm drunk but i can't possibly see how no respawn HH would work. I mean what is the advantage of pushing the spawn first. Its still going to end up being TDM. The reason being lets say a map like lagoon for example. Everyone is going to just sit on the ridge and the edges and wait for that smoke to turn red. As soon as it does... FRAG OUT. Once you have the paramount advantage you push one guy up into the hill and everyone else holds the other team off the hill. Its going to be the same simple strategy every time. Meanwhile RVSA with 3 objectives keeps the game dynamically changing. If you find yourself running around too much you aren't thinking enough. I know that there is very little scurrying when we play RVSA and defend. You just have to plan your spacing and your gaps better.

[Easton]

Stop w/the persecution complex, Mary. If you post something I agree with I'll say so. I disagree with many different people about many things on these forums. Go read any of my posts in the GRAW1 section. I disagreed w/99% of the people posting here.

99%? Some people call them forum trolls.

You're flattering yourself if you think that you even make a blip on my radar Easton. I don't care what your (or anyone elses) join dates are or what you post here. But don't think that you're so important that on an open forum that your opinions are always correct and that you should have the last word. What's nice about boards like this is discussion. With that comes opinions that differ from yours. That's how the adult world works.

Exactly the point I made. Stop talking down to people, and people will respect you more. We only ask for discussion here but you take jabs all the time. You can be a pest at times. We are only trying to discuss points, not have personal wars. Stop being that guy that wants to disagree with people just to disagree and talk down to them. Move on.

I'll let you in on a little bit of info: Our RvsA server is up at this very moment. The objective part of RvsA is awesome. I think that if you removed the tagging and had no respawns that it would even be more intense than TDM. That's my opinion like it or not.

It is interesting that some vocal people are against respawns, even the limited ones in this mode. I do not understand it, though I am trying to. Seems coin-flippish when you randomly toss a nade, get a kill, and will win.

I'm down to try some HH. It could be a step in the right direction. I do like TDM, but I also see how it is non-objective based (besides having more kills than the opposing team), and an objective would just add to the experience. The only problem with RvsA I see with matching, is the respawns. I don't like that you can kill someone in a match, and they come back looking for you in 30 seconds. I also understand the balance, that each side will have the re-spawns, but I still am on the fence. Rugg has a point about the tagging as well. Not sure what I think about that either. Did enjoy our games of RvsA the other day [HOT], btw.

HH could be a great mode for matching...no spawns. I have suggested over and over a similar gametype to HH that keeps getting shot down by everybody, but it is basically HH tweaked for match play. I don't see why it is resisted so much......of course someone would have to create the modded gametype, but it really was loads of fun. MP Gametypes Check the first one I listed. Of course....strategy and tactics become way more involved when there are multiple/random insertion zones. Figuring out where the enemy is starting from becomes part of the game as well, and is needed to boost the excitement factor of MP.

I will look at those gametypes. Look interesting.

Zenjant' date='Aug 21 2007, 09:28 AM' post='490190']

Although we haven't "matched" in GRAW2, the game is pretty much the same as the old GR in which we have hundreds of matches under our belts.

There is always a way to beat the camper mentality. Sometimes it takes a couple of losses to figure out a strategy that will work, but that's how it goes. You learn with the losses.

I am not going to push my opinion on games with re-spawns, or the fact that big red floating diamonds on people is not my cup of tea, but to complain that people are hiding in bushes, as if this gives them an instant win or a super power that can't be beat seems bizarre to me.

If you can't find a counter to guys hiding in bushes, then maybe some of your strategy needs to be re-thought.

I'm not bashing anybody for liking a game mode more then another, and I actually like mixing things up and playing some RvsA once in awhile, but to say that you are all about the RvsA because some teams camp, and you can't do anything about it seems like a problem with your squads tactics as opposed to a problem with the game mode.

Well, we do not bring up this debate because we cannot play the mode. I can assure you we can beat any team out there in this mode. We do not have a problem countering a bush more than any other team. But it still is what it is, and based on the fact that it isnt our lack of skill that turns us off to it, gives us a little credibility.

Edited August 21, 2007 by Easton

[Colin]

Zenjant' date='Aug 21 2007, 12:28 PM' post='490190']

Although we haven't "matched" in GRAW2, the game is pretty much the same as the old GR in which we have hundreds of matches under our belts.

There is always a way to beat the camper mentality. Sometimes it takes a couple of losses to figure out a strategy that will work, but that's how it goes. You learn with the losses.

I am not going to push my opinion on games with re-spawns, or the fact that big red floating diamonds on people is not my cup of tea, but to complain that people are hiding in bushes, as if this gives them an instant win or a super power that can't be beat seems bizarre to me.

If you can't find a counter to guys hiding in bushes, then maybe some of your strategy needs to be re-thought.

I'm not bashing anybody for liking a game mode more then another, and I actually like mixing things up and playing some RvsA once in awhile, but to say that you are all about the RvsA because some teams camp, and you can't do anything about it seems like a problem with your squads tactics as opposed to a problem with the game mode.

Very good post.

Yes roger that bro

[Easton]

Personally, I enjoy TDM and enjoy the suspense and build up. I think someone mentioned earlier on.. you capitilize on the other team mistake.. wiether it be they move to quick or sit to long.. either can be considered a mistake..

But one thing I have found.. and I have already played in a few excellent 2-3 hour matches on GRAW2 (AOD, AFZ, KI, CLONE) interesting enough as the night gets later mistake are more prone because people get impatient.

This is exactly why I do not think TDM is good competition, just organized recreation. Which is TOTALLY fine if this is what everyone enjoys, and I see most do around here. But, the game mechanics, FPS skill, team tactics ALL are lost or very limited when it takes the other teams' mistakes to allow you to win. You said it yourself, basically, it all comes down to: who has the mental fortitude to stay on their own half of the map in one spot the longest, wins. Nothing about strategy or how good your shot is. I guess most who post here would find this an overall equalizer and defend it, which does not surprise me as there are very few that play this game that have much FPS skill. IMHO. I know a lot of people may be offended by that opinion, but I know the few very good players from some of these teams agree with me from outside conversations.

Edited August 21, 2007 by Easton

[ruggbutt]

99%? Some people call them forum trolls.

There you go all half cocked w/out all the information a w/the namecalling. GRAW1 sucked. Most of the people here disagreed with me and were busy praising GRIN. GRIN deserves praise for GRAW2.

and people will respect you more.

I don't need nor want your respect. I've seen how you respect others in pub servers.

Stop being that guy that wants to disagree with people just to disagree and talk down to them.

Are you serious? I never disagree w/someone just for the sake of it. I guess you're new here. I'm pretty vocal about my likes and dislikes. If you think that my opposing opinions to yours are just for sake of argument then you really think very highly of yourself. I'm passionate about what I believe and as I stated before, you (and your squad) rate low on my radar. I don't care what you do, what gametypes you like or anything else as long as it doesn't affect me on a pub server. I don't care if you wanna play hour map drops w/unlimited spawns. It's irrelevant to me. If you have a problem w/opposing viewpoints you need a thicker skin. Last time I checked this thread wasn't for everyone to post in except for those that don't share your beliefs.

Edited August 21, 2007 by ruggbutt

[Easton]

There you go all half cocked w/out all the information a w/the namecalling. GRAW1 sucked. Most of the people here disagreed with me and were busy praising GRIN. GRIN deserves praise for GRAW2.

You don't have to agree with me son. Cuz your opinion doesn't change my mind one whit.

*YAWN* to the first part, I know your rep around here already and I am new. Nuff said, I will go on loving you rugg...

I agree with the second. There is a good amount of praise that can be thrown at GRIN for this game. There are some bugs that should not be present, and it certainly neglected the competitive side of the game in some areas, but the game itself as a whole is good. RvsA would demonstrate this. I have competed in many MP games, and I would have moved on in a heartbeat if I didnt feel this way about the game right out of beta....

hehe, you pulled an edit at the end... well, I am not here to change your mind, we are trying to discuss and make aware of some things about this game we like to the rest of those around here who have an open mind and do not try to disagree with '99%' of the posters. Calling me son? I thought you made a lame attempt a post ago to be the better man... stick with it.

Edited August 21, 2007 by Easton

[ruggbutt]

I will go on loving you rugg...

How can you not?

And hey, at least I didn't call you a boogereater.

Edited August 21, 2007 by ruggbutt

[Rocky]

I will go on loving you rugg...

How can you not?

Wanna see a list?

[ruggbutt]

Wanna see a list?

Dude, I got video.

[Rocky]

*puts list back in box*

[Easton]

I don't care what you do, what gametypes you like or anything else as long as it doesn't affect me on a pub server.

Oh, this saves us all a headache then! Sorry it was not made clear, but this whole thread was made for discussion in competitive leagues/environments. This has nothing to do with 'pubs.' So, no worries, we do not want to touch your pubs. You can leave now.

BTW, Keyser would not make a thread that excluded anyone. In fact, I regret that some of the post between the two of us are inhibiting it. Let the rest of us talk content, now that we have established this has nothing to do with you.

[WDA_OPTIMUSPRIME]

Wanna see a list?

Dude, I got video.

[GR] don't count!!!

I still <3 you too ruggy!!! Judas...

[Colin]

I will go on loving you rugg...

How can you not?

Wanna see a list?

Too funny I have to admit though a new leaf looks evident.

[Easton]

I don't need nor want your respect. I've seen how you respect others in pub servers.

By killing them? I do not talk down on anyone, unless they call me a cheater, then at best I am at least 'playful'.

Regardless, in the first week of live play, we were called cheaters and hackers, even banned from a few servers. We extended the olive branch to some of the owners of those servers... something we wouldnt do if we didnt respect anyone. With one clan, within a matter of a couple days, we were meeting up on vent and became friends with some.

I am new to this community, and I am glad I have met some cool peeps here already. Rugg, if you ever want, you are more than welcome to come onto our vent and chat it up. Just hit me up on xfire (thawkeaston) or IM me.

Edited August 21, 2007 by Easton

[[HOT]Keyser]

OK, Here goes, i want to pose a question to the board here. Roco or someone earlier was saying that if we can't beat bush campers on a regular basis, our strategy needs to be reworked. So i'm asking here. What is the viable alternative to bush campers. Heres what i've come up with and why it doesn't work.

Prefiring bushes : Gives away positions. When far enough away to work without sound making it a problem it is mostly impractical because of the angles of the map.

Waiting for them to get impatient: This isn't a reliable strategy. As Easton said, if they have to make a definite mistake for you to win so obvious as impatience, the game mode is broken.

Rocos send the weakest link out. : Most teams use suppressors almost exclusively, Meaning no muzzle flash. Furthermore sacrificing a life when its already at such a premium that 1 kill is a HUGE HUGE advantage seems dumb.

So im asking.... as i did in my original post. How do you make TDM not suck. And why isn't everyone playing RVSA?

[Beaver]

This thread makes my eyes bleed. Please can it be locked already?

Edited August 21, 2007 by Beaver

[[HOT]Keyser]

This thread makes my eyes bleed. Please can it be locked already?

We'll lock it when you put up the TWL ladder bro....

[Easton]

Keyser' date='Aug 21 2007, 11:09 AM' post='490225']

So im asking.... as i did in my original post. How do you make TDM not suck?

Camping is the part of every game, and I do not have too much problem with it in this one other than we are playing single spawn. I would say it would suck way less if these damn bushes were eliminated or reduced on most of these maps. It is flip-a-coin playing: pick the right bush.

[Brok21k]

About the camping and bush issue. I personally don't liked being killed by someone in a bush, but hats off to the person for being more patient than me and waiting, and luckily I have other team members who axel in such areas..

I think its all about tactics, and that even comes down to map selection. So talking about your un-favored maps and weak points in a public forum isn’t the best way forward.

I remember strong point in GRAW1 was our worst map, until we drilled and came up with some good tactics.

But the reason I dislike RVA is because of the weapons upgrades force you to use un-favored kits, which I hate.

It’s a good idea as a game type, but I feel it seems to wear thin after a few hours of game play.

No offence to HOT but would you be promoting RVA if you were top of the NA TWL power ladder.