FI_FlimFlam Posted August 18, 2007 Share Posted August 18, 2007 Please I need some help. I'm new to this whole thing so please forgive my lack of knowledge. Let me give you some background and where I currently stand so you have a complete picture of where I stand. I have 2 GRAW2 directories/installs on my computer. One for playing and one for maps. I work in the copy directory for editing. My goal is to remove some of the predefined kits. Mainly as an experiment before tackling custom weapon kits. By unbundling the levels and editing some XML's and a custom ranks file. I managed to get it to work - at least locally. Now I want to bundle the maps to be able to distribute them if someone wants them or we want to run them on a server. Right now I have the unbundled files in the Data\custom_levels directory NOT the GRAW2\custom_levels directory. I copied the bundle.exe and bundle.bat from the public_tools directory to the data\levels\custom_levels directory. Then from a command prompt, I ran the bundler.bat with the command "bundle.bat R1_arroyo". This didn't work and then I attempted to use the directory structure from the readme.txt with the bundler and still that did not work. I have moved both the bundles to my main install in both the custom_levels and the data\levels\custom_levels but neither was recognized by the game. I hope there is something simple that I missed. I didn't find any path related issues in the xml's inside of the map directory so I don't understand why it wouldn't work. But then again, this is the first time I've attempted to do anything with the editor or editing xmls in the game. Anyone have any clues as to what I'm missing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeanOldMan Posted August 18, 2007 Share Posted August 18, 2007 (edited) You're not alone on this. I have the same problem. I have created a small coop (I think) map using a canned landscape, place a couple of enemies on it and a small static object. Saved it and tried to bundle it. All I get are error messages. I don't even know mission.xml file is. I seem to be getting nowhere. Wolfsong, if you're reading these posts, please try to help. I know you've put together tutorials on how to use the editor and scripting, and we are trying our best to follow them, but this editor is just not user-friendly. If GRAW 2 is to succeed,which means the modding community picks up the slack on a barebones game release, we need to become intimate with this editor. I'm not completely stupid with the GRAW 1 editor, but this one sure makes me feel stupid. I would really like to see a STEP by STEP post on how to create a VERY simple Campaign Coop bundle. One landscape tile, one static object, one bad guy, one trigger area, how to render it, how to bundle it, file structures, the WHOLE deal, as if it were explained to a computer idiot. I know some of you out there understand how this thing works and that's great, but please don't reply with 'Read the editor tutorial, the info is in there'. I have read it. Several times. I'm sorry, but the modding community has already had some good GRAW1 modders give up on GRAW 2. If explaining how this editor works in a manner that can be understood by amateur, give-up-their-time-and-effort-for-no-pay gamers who want to help is not worth the effort, then so be it. But I feel the future of GRAW 2 now rests in the hands of those people. Edited August 18, 2007 by MeanOldMan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRIN_Wolfsong Posted August 19, 2007 Share Posted August 19, 2007 The bundler tool has been explained in detail in the forum. I really have nothing more to add on that. Check out these topics: http://www.ghostrecon.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=45977 http://www.ghostrecon.net/forums/index.php...mp;#entry489449 And make sure your folder structure is exactly like it is in other bundles, starting with a data folder and then the needed folders under that. The modding community has figured out how to get maps to work now, so by helping each other you shouldn't have a problem. We can't provide you with all the info, the tutorial is aimed towards modders, and modders have above average computer skills or they would not go into trying to change things in an original software. Like with GR1 and GRAW1, it will take a few months for the modding community to start up. But by posting questions and helping each other out, it should be no problem with the base knowledge from GRAW1, which is actually not as different as people seams to think. Things I know the community knows I'll not sit down and answer in detail, but I will correct things I notice have been explained wrong, like I have with the bindle tool for a few days and now that area should need no more input from my part I think. Instead my being here will be about helping modders to dig deeper and help the community take the first steps when no modders has yet succeeded. So my next tutorial will cover custom geometry and the 3DS Max to GRAW2 bridge and setup, which is not something quite as easy for the community to get all right for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeanOldMan Posted August 19, 2007 Share Posted August 19, 2007 Well, that says it all. Thanks for the help. Good luck to the small handful of modders that will actually fight their way thru this to produce mods. You have my respect for teaching yourselves how to use a difficult piece of programming. And some in the GRAW 2 gaming community will be thankful you did. I guess I'm just too lazy or stupid or both. I have already wasted hours of reading and trying to get things to work, and I still can't even step onto the mod I'm trying to create. I have given up for now, maybe when winter comes and you folks have put up some good mods for me to learn from (for me, learning by example is the most effective way) and I'm bored, I will try it again. Again, good luck modders... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRIN_Wolfsong Posted August 19, 2007 Share Posted August 19, 2007 As said, I sure community members will write basic tutorials if they see that the community has the need for it, it's usually they who do that, not developers. But as said, it's all been covered already. The editor tutorial tells you how to place stuff and setup plans and locations. The scripting tutorial tells you how to use the units placed int he editor inside your missions script with an extremely detailed explanation on how to use locations to activate groups, how to work with objectives and how to set up C4 functionality. And lastly the game mode tutorial tells you how to setup the world_info.xml and mission.xml for the Coop game mode. That together with all the the official levels being open for you to look through and learn is more then enough info provided for even new users. So, writing the type of tutorial you want would only be repeating what is already written in the other documents. And I'm writing those in my spare time mainly, just like all support in these forums, so I'm not gonna write the same thing twice as I'm already spending 4 hours of my free time on this a day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FI_FlimFlam Posted August 19, 2007 Author Share Posted August 19, 2007 I've actually read all those links and attempted to follow the directions in them. I get bundles but when I move them to my "real" install, the game doesn't load them and the levels are not shown in the level list. I would be grateful is someone was willing to spend a few minutes with me on coms to help me get past this last hurdle. I just don't know what I'm missing as that I believe I have done exactly what I was told to do. Heck I would be willing to zip up the unbundled folders with the modifications and send them to someone willing to bundle them for me. So if any kind sole would like to assist..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeanOldMan Posted August 19, 2007 Share Posted August 19, 2007 Wolf, you've been a tremendous help to the community for a long time, and I certainly do not want to start a flame war with you. But you seem to be hung up on the fact that just because you wrote the instructions, EVERYONE who reads them will magically understand them. You latest post was immediately followed by another from a modder who stated he read everything and still wanted help. I have seen numerous posts just like that. I'm gonna guess that most of the serious modders have printed out those tutorials and they are pretty thumb-worn by now. I mean no offense here whatsoever, it's just that sometimes the instructions are confusing. I attempted to create a Campaign Coop mod and couldn't find much on example for it other than a few references to .xml files. I read the section on Campaign Coop game mode, that stated in one paragragh the minimap is not used in that mode, and the next 4 or 5 paragraphs explained how to setup a minimap! There are just a lot of unrelated, confusing stuff to plod thru that, at times, isn't cohesive. Again, you are a great asset to this group, and I am trying to word this as non-aggressively as I can, but I feel the tutorials might have been a little bit more useful if they had contained simple examples of creating a mod from top to bottom. The coding is simple enough, I can place enemies, objects , etc. We have to learn a completely different way to setup the file system and create files. And there are a number of things that used to be done one way in GRAW 1 and now are completely different. You speak negatively of working hours on this in your spare time. Think about that. What are the modders doing? And when you're working on it, you actually know what you're doing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRIN_Wolfsong Posted August 19, 2007 Share Posted August 19, 2007 But you seem to be hung up on the fact that just because you wrote the instructions, EVERYONE who reads them will magically understand them. Not really. It's just that it's how I would explain it and no matter how many times I'm going to do it, it will be more or less the same as it's the only logical way for me to look at it. I provide the info I have in the way I would if I was to teach people who have the basic requirements to be game developers at junior level, which is usually the level modders are at or around, or at least it's those that will have to "pull" the community forward in the long run. And I'm sure people in the community that have understood how things work are willing to provide alternative angles on this, which is why I keep saying that the community helping each other is what's important, and the tutorials is only the hard facts which I provide as a base. I mean no offense here whatsoever, it's just that sometimes the instructions are confusing. I attempted to create a Campaign Coop mod and couldn't find much on example for it other than a few references to .xml files. I read the section on Campaign Coop game mode, that stated in one paragragh the minimap is not used in that mode, and the next 4 or 5 paragraphs explained how to setup a minimap! There are just a lot of unrelated, confusing stuff to plod thru that, at times, isn't cohesive. Where does it say it doesn't use a minimap? If it does it's wrong and I should fix it so please give me the page number and an estimate of where on the page it is located. Coop doesn't use the standard MP minimaps and it doesn't use the tactical maps, but it does use a minimap. You speak negatively of working hours on this in your spare time. Think about that. What are the modders doing? And when you're working on it, you actually know what you're doing... Actually I didn't know everything that I've written. I've had to figure it out while I doing it, like I did with the GRAW1 scripting stuff. I did XBOX360 landscape conversions for GRAW2, nothing else. No scripting, no setting up game modes, no ranks, no kits. I only handled geometry and someone else put it together and implemented it as a level. So I really haven't written much on what I worked on and actually have some experience of doing. And as for modders, that is partly what modding is about. It takes loads of time, and I'm doing that as well to test things out all the time, besides tutorials and posting. But the reward is gaining an understanding by putting in that time and doing the tests. A common problem is that modders try to take a too big step in the beginning. Try something small, like an empty landscape with just the absolute minimum stuff on it required by the game mode and try to get that too work. Starting small and expanding is the best way of handling any new skill. One big difference between me and modders though is that I spend most of my days inside another game with another system, so I really don't feel like spending more then the 8 hours at work in front of a computer dealing with game problems and trying to solve things and help others with game dev problems if I don't have too. If you don't work with the exact same thing you are dealing with as a hobby, I don't think you'll understand that, but it becomes quite tiring after a while. But I do it as I still think it's fun, and I want to provide the crucial info that allows modding for GRAW2 to take the extra steps which GRAW1 never did, creating the basic mods usually requires no help from the developers, but it usually stops there. So I try to figure out and prove info on what each part does to get beyond that. And by the looks of things, it's going quite well right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeanOldMan Posted August 19, 2007 Share Posted August 19, 2007 (edited) Where does it say it doesn't use a minimap? If it does it's wrong and I should fix it so please give me the page number and an estimate of where on the page it is located. Coop doesn't use the standard MP minimaps and it doesn't use the tactical maps, but it does use a minimap. Perhaps I have misinterpreted the meaning, but the top of page 33 of the Editor .pdf states: The “texture†tags works just like explained in the tutorial “GRAWâ€: MP Game Modesâ€. When giving the “name†attribute the value “loadingâ€, you define which texture to use for the loading screen, and when giving it the value “minimap†you define which texture to use for the minimap. Minimap is not required for single player or campaign coop as it’s not used. The “uv_rect†attribute needs the coordinates for where the upper left corner and the lower right corner of the area to be displayed from the texture is. It should be given in pixels. Lastly you should define the “width†and “height†of the entire texture you want to use. If it refers to something else, my apologies. I wish only the best for the future of this game. I personally cannot justify the time required to learn how to use this editor. And it will be the last of the 'Ghost Recon' series games that I purchase. No offense to anyone, we all walk our own paths. Also, my apologies to FI_FlimFlam. I did not intend to hijack your post. Good luck with your modding. Edited August 19, 2007 by MeanOldMan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRIN_Wolfsong Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 Perhaps I have misinterpreted the meaning, but the top of page 33 of the Editor .pdf states: The “texture†tags works just like explained in the tutorial “GRAWâ€: MP Game Modesâ€. When giving the “name†attribute the value “loadingâ€, you define which texture to use for the loading screen, and when giving it the value “minimap†you define which texture to use for the minimap. Minimap is not required for single player or campaign coop as it’s not used. The “uv_rect†attribute needs the coordinates for where the upper left corner and the lower right corner of the area to be displayed from the texture is. It should be given in pixels. Lastly you should define the “width†and “height†of the entire texture you want to use. That is correct. It says Campaign Coop doesn't use minimaps, and it doesn't. Coop on the other hand does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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