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GRIN dudes, UbiShafters, and fellow gamers of all opinions:

GRAW2 leaves me feeling no better than did GRAW. This is to say that my mind is firmly made up that the name should be let to die now, and I am convinced we'll never get another GR experience out of Ubisoft (already KNEW that) nor GRIN (sorry guys). I cannot rightly express the depth of my disappointment without liberal profanity and hurting a LOT of feelings, but below are a few points on which I reject this latest episode as any manner of successor to the GR name...

1.) The friendly AI are mentally retarded. At least, when a grown man exercises the mental capacities of a 3 year-old child, that's the best I can call him. They are special forces troops, and they still walk in front of hot friendly muzzles and have the sack to complain about it? They fail to return fire on an enemy who is in line of sight and firing on them (ROE:RECON, though I don't know that it does any good)? You want me to call this an improvement? They are as bad as, if not slightly WORSE THAN, the friendly AI in GRAW. At least the enemy AI's are no wiser, making even a guy like me the smartest thing moving on the battlefield. But micromanaging the friendlies is frustrating. Yeah, we got a swoopy-cool new tool with which to do so, but I'd just as soon have the [GR] thing back...

2.) Mission scripts suck. They're still very linear. Oh, gee, I get to choose one of a couple different insertion points on like TWO missions. I'm so impressed! NOT! It's still just DooM played at slow-forward and without the satanic stuff. Nonetheless defining linear single-player gaming. If I'm not blowing away four thousand badguys a minute with BFG's and gatling cannons and such, then linear is no fun. Mission objectives being what they are, the script wasn't very intuitive. I just get this late-70's-Honda feel about this game- not a quality product.

OK, I'm gonna stop shy of getting folks feeling all butt-hurt here. This game is what GRAW should have evolved to in an expansion. Most of the bugs (though certainly not all) are gone, but that's what one should expect from a retail product. GRAW 1.35 was a DEMO at best, and GRAW2 is only better in that it's debugged. For the few little improvements that are left, it's not worth the money stuffed into the pockets of companies that obviously just don't get it. I wish GRIN the best in whatever they move on to next, and pray that they do move on after consecutive failures here. I wish Ubisoft much botulism poisoning or something else similarly disgusting and deadly. Especially their goofballs in LA- you are all stupid. VERY VERY VERY stupid. If I knew your names I would hate you in the face.

I am grateful to the friend who stole this game and shipped it to me. HE's a good dude. He saved me having to spend money on it, which I had promised I wouldn't do.

Let's hope some other developer still has a sense of what it is that THIS bunch has waited for in vain for several years now- a worthy successor to Ghost Recon. GRAW2 isn't even close...

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I've been on at BFS' forum for a while, man. And I think you're right. The future never was with Ubisoft. And it so far seems as if I'll be shelling out the full retail for GROUND BRANCH with a big smile.

But GRAW is dead. And in dying, it took the GR name with it. I'm allowed to be bitter over that...

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GRIN dudes, UbiShafters, and fellow gamers of all opinions:

GRAW2 leaves me feeling no better than did GRAW. This is to say that my mind is firmly made up that the name should be let to die now, and I am convinced we'll never get another GR experience out of Ubisoft (already KNEW that) nor GRIN (sorry guys). I cannot rightly express the depth of my disappointment without liberal profanity and hurting a LOT of feelings, but below are a few points on which I reject this latest episode as any manner of successor to the GR name...

1.) The friendly AI are mentally retarded. At least, when a grown man exercises the mental capacities of a 3 year-old child, that's the best I can call him. They are special forces troops, and they still walk in front of hot friendly muzzles and have the sack to complain about it? They fail to return fire on an enemy who is in line of sight and firing on them (ROE:RECON, though I don't know that it does any good)? You want me to call this an improvement? They are as bad as, if not slightly WORSE THAN, the friendly AI in GRAW. At least the enemy AI's are no wiser, making even a guy like me the smartest thing moving on the battlefield. But micromanaging the friendlies is frustrating. Yeah, we got a swoopy-cool new tool with which to do so, but I'd just as soon have the [GR] thing back...

2.) Mission scripts suck. They're still very linear. Oh, gee, I get to choose one of a couple different insertion points on like TWO missions. I'm so impressed! NOT! It's still just DooM played at slow-forward and without the satanic stuff. Nonetheless defining linear single-player gaming. If I'm not blowing away four thousand badguys a minute with BFG's and gatling cannons and such, then linear is no fun. Mission objectives being what they are, the script wasn't very intuitive. I just get this late-70's-Honda feel about this game- not a quality product.

OK, I'm gonna stop shy of getting folks feeling all butt-hurt here. This game is what GRAW should have evolved to in an expansion. Most of the bugs (though certainly not all) are gone, but that's what one should expect from a retail product. GRAW 1.35 was a DEMO at best, and GRAW2 is only better in that it's debugged. For the few little improvements that are left, it's not worth the money stuffed into the pockets of companies that obviously just don't get it. I wish GRIN the best in whatever they move on to next, and pray that they do move on after consecutive failures here. I wish Ubisoft much botulism poisoning or something else similarly disgusting and deadly. Especially their goofballs in LA- you are all stupid. VERY VERY VERY stupid. If I knew your names I would hate you in the face.

I am grateful to the friend who stole this game and shipped it to me. HE's a good dude. He saved me having to spend money on it, which I had promised I wouldn't do.

Let's hope some other developer still has a sense of what it is that THIS bunch has waited for in vain for several years now- a worthy successor to Ghost Recon. GRAW2 isn't even close...

:rolleyes::sheep:

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Do not let this thread slide into the depths of it, should'a, would'a, could'a or you don't appreciate the game for what it is type threads. Rabbi needed to post his opinion and he did. Now that he has done so, it does not need to have old arguments beat over and over again in it.

I do not want to have to lock this thread, so play nice.

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should'a, would'a, could'a

I think he said to little but,playing nice and all ..lol.....Hes RIGHT.

And WHAT THE HECK IS BFS STUDIOS AND WHAT GAME IS IT???

Lord JESUS in Heaven.Is there a game out there that reflects some sort of teamwork,ECT.

Not to get off topic and all.......Pins and Needles around here.Bunch of wimps,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,JUST KIDDING.

I feel for ya Rabbi,Graw 2 engine is awsome.The Blueberry

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I have to agree with this opinion of GRAW 2, I believe the Friendly AI is NOT as effective as it should be. :wall: I find myself having to come to the rescue of "MY SUPPORT" team. I hear, "I am taking fire", :rofl: then move to position and neutralize the target and then move out. :wall: Outside, of you, (Captain Mitchell) have a the human intelligence, shouldn't your fellow soldiers have the same tactical skills as you. I have played the game all the way up to Mission 8 at this time. I am very disappionted in the friendly AI. I do feel the other elements of the game are great. I always seem to fall back (when comparing) :devil: on my many years of playing Orginal GR and feel the AI is better in the Orginal GR. They did not complain about "taking fire", they neutralized the target and moved out. They reacted to targets waymore efficiently then GRAW 1 & 2, by stopping move or neutralizing target and moving forward. :o=

But all and all, I will stick with it, since I am A Ghost Recon Fan. :D

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should'a, would'a, could'a

I think he said to little but,playing nice and all ..lol.....Hes RIGHT.

And WHAT THE HECK IS BFS STUDIOS AND WHAT GAME IS IT???

Lord JESUS in Heaven.Is there a game out there that reflects some sort of teamwork,ECT.

Not to get off topic and all.......Pins and Needles around here.Bunch of wimps,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,JUST KIDDING.

I feel for ya Rabbi,Graw 2 engine is awsome.The Blueberry

Click on the link, it shows various 3D models that they are working, including some for Rainbow Six: Lockdown, as well as various other things. It's a good read :thumbsup:

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I personally could care less about the friendly AI. TBH, I tend to leave the AI behind and go my own ( I get my head handled to me but...)

My preference it COOP and the modability of the game. It is the since of teamwork with another gamer that I am looking for. With my limited experience I am not a modder but love to playtest and some light graphics work. Oh, I love to write storylines too. So, it is the COOP end I love and am still waiting to hear the verdict on that.

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Just let it go....

Please do :P

I love the game, have no problem with AI and think it shows promise and the fruits of hard work.

Go ahead and send us the link to the game you made so darn perfect so I can have a friend steal one for me and then complain about it.

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I love GRIN and can't wait for their next game. Since first playing MP a couple of years ago, I can never enjoy killing AI. No matter how clever or intelligent they may seem, I can never get any sort of enjoyment from out witting a machine (after plaing online). Theres to much enjoyment to be had from listening to people whinge after owning them. I just hope gaming companies start dropping the SP and totally focus on MP, thats my dream baby.

Keep up the good wor GRIN

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Just let it go....

Please do :P

I love the game, have no problem with AI and think it shows promise and the fruits of hard work.

Go ahead and send us the link to the game you made so darn perfect so I can have a friend steal one for me and then complain about it.

It's cool. if someone else enjoys this game, then I'm happy for them. May they continue to enjoy it, and the excellent mods this bunch is sure to produce.

As for the comment about a game I made, I can only imagine if I had a development studio and a couple dozen experienced programmers and our own game engine and the previous episode's experience to draw on, I might hope to make a damned good one. All the makings were there in GRIN's case. Much as I like that bunch, though, I can't stand by this product.

I've vented. Haven't bothered with finishing the SP campaign, and not sure I found it interesting to ever get back around to it. I might just have to strand Mitchell and crew on that bridge...

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Just let it go....

Please do :P

I love the game, have no problem with AI and think it shows promise and the fruits of hard work.

Go ahead and send us the link to the game you made so darn perfect so I can have a friend steal one for me and then complain about it.

It's cool. if someone else enjoys this game, then I'm happy for them. May they continue to enjoy it, and the excellent mods this bunch is sure to produce.

As for the comment about a game I made, I can only imagine if I had a development studio and a couple dozen experienced programmers and our own game engine and the previous episode's experience to draw on, I might hope to make a damned good one. All the makings were there in GRIN's case. Much as I like that bunch, though, I can't stand by this product.

I've vented. Haven't bothered with finishing the SP campaign, and not sure I found it interesting to ever get back around to it. I might just have to strand Mitchell and crew on that bridge...

I can't say for co-op or sp but Rabbi... MP TDM is back to old GR1 style. So much that TWL has 25 Teams from North America sitting in the power ladder.

Some of the old teams are there. AFZ, AOD, 30+ for example.

The server controls need work but it's matchable and a blast with the gut wrenching sneaking around corners and bush hopping that we all loved.

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Just let it go....

Please do :P

I love the game, have no problem with AI and think it shows promise and the fruits of hard work.

Go ahead and send us the link to the game you made so darn perfect so I can have a friend steal one for me and then complain about it.

It's cool. if someone else enjoys this game, then I'm happy for them. May they continue to enjoy it, and the excellent mods this bunch is sure to produce.

As for the comment about a game I made, I can only imagine if I had a development studio and a couple dozen experienced programmers and our own game engine and the previous episode's experience to draw on, I might hope to make a damned good one. All the makings were there in GRIN's case. Much as I like that bunch, though, I can't stand by this product.

I've vented. Haven't bothered with finishing the SP campaign, and not sure I found it interesting to ever get back around to it. I might just have to strand Mitchell and crew on that bridge...

I can't say for co-op or sp but Rabbi... MP TDM is back to old GR1 style. So much that TWL has 25 Teams from North America sitting in the power ladder.

Some of the old teams are there. AFZ, AOD, 30+ for example.

The server controls need work but it's matchable and a blast with the gut wrenching sneaking around corners and bush hopping that we all loved.

I agree Roco....I am getting my ###### powned :wall: in GRAW2 just as I did in GR1!! Its a lot of fun matching. :yes:

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  • 2 weeks later...

Well, here we are a little while after the retail launch, a couple patches into it, and I read here on these forums (even from GRAW2's biggest fans) that this game has typically 200 or fewer players online at any given time, and most servers empty.

THAT seems really familiar...

The game's still buggy, and with each fix seems to come another new bug or glitch, or a revival of an old one (automatic RoF glitch, anyone?).

Reminiscent of some other game I've played...

Original content isn't coming from the developer or publisher, and in fact it's being suggested that the community will be responsible for all new content via mods.

I KNOW I've read this all before somewhere...

Folks, it's GRAW all over again. Perhaps this is the syndrome of the self-fulfilling prophecy- if we naysayers spend so much time convincing ourselves and others that it will suck, then it WILL suck regardless of whether or not it really sucks. Works in EO.

Seriously, best of luck to GRIN in whatever they do next. Hopefully their next publisher won't jack them the way Ubi does.

And Ubi can eat my 4$$. I'll even lend them a spoon. And some Mrs. Dash...

I'm sick of it, folks. I'm sick of all the Ubi titles, and the crap they ARE when compared to what they WERE. I'm disgusted with the failure to stick with what works. I'm so disappointed that GR and R6 and SC couldn't have just evolved naturally, maintaining the awesome gameplay that made them so popular in the first place and updating the graphics and some content.

Ladders started out for GRAW almost as soon as it came out, and some teams joined up. People were psyched about it's potential for a couple months. Modders went straight to work with whatever they had. It fizzled and died.

History seems to be repeating itself, and when that last stroke comes along I won't be wasting my time with this title.

For those of you who choose to do so, though, I hope it works out. I really, honestly do...

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The gameplay itself is solid for the most part, it's just this game has too many little things missing that prevent it from lasting long term. Like lack server options, coop variety, working anti-cheat, weapon balance, mod support, the list goes on. Modding is better in this game as well, but not by a whole lot. Even with a better tutorial it's harder to map for this game than it was in GRAW 1 (and since it wasn't released with the game a lot of people were upset, myself included). Custom gametypes seem to be rather limited in what they can do, especially with a point system (I could be wrong on this though). Custom kits can't be put in a map without it being turned into a mod. Don't get me wrong, I still like this game, but I just don't see myself playing it after Christmas.

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It's difficult to appreciate why some who do not like GRAW/2, persist in posting on this GRAW2 FORUM about how bad they feel!

You would have thought they might have migrated to another game forum somewhere and not wasted their time here, wouldn't you? :huh:

Mike. :rolleyes:

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It's difficult to appreciate why some who do not like GRAW/2, persist in posting on this GRAW2 FORUM about how bad they feel!

You would have thought they might have migrated to another game forum somewhere and not wasted their time here, wouldn't you? :huh:

Mike. :rolleyes:

What Rabbi is actually saying is the whole de-ja-vu of GRAW1 feels very present, that's all.

For me GRAW2 as a game is excellent in multi player from a player prospective not an admins, just a few problems persist like server control, admin game control & gamespy lockin. SP I did not care for, but Co-op Campaign was my favourite, the game was worth the money for that and multiplayer, even with bugs. The game will carry so far and the support of the development team is second to none. I hope the game will support script changing in the future but I doubt it.

The vast array of empty servers tell an all to familiar story. We carry a very popular server, but come November that may change too.

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And being that my time with this title is stictly limited to SP, I can only speak on that from what I've read here.

But yeah, 'deja vu' says it.

If I persist in posting here, it's for two reasons- 1.) Ubisoft can take the spoon and Mrs. Dash for ruining the franchise, and 2.) maybe SOMEONE will read all this and agree with it and develop something that better fits what some of us are looking for.

It's not like I expect Ubisoft or anyone working for them to make any changes to a game, even in a next episode. Again, deja vu.

Remember when it's all over that I told ya so...

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