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The real lowdown(letdown) in GRAW2


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Gotta kick the dead horse

I have played all of them [GR], Graw 1 Graw 2 in progress even the original R6. Yup games are different, they are easier and dumber no argument. BUT THAT IS THE MARKET, the PC game companies are pandering to the console kids, there are a lot of them and they have money to spend. Those same kids think GRAW 2 is hard on easy or medium, I find it not bad on hardcore by the way. These same kids want medics because they, want their character to be in perfect health all the time. The old school games will only be made by a wealthy independent developer who wants to make niche games.

You have to live with that fact, now with good modding tools and an open system you can change the game to suit your gaming style. I like the idea of here is the map here are your targets go get them. I like smart effective AI on both sides, and I would like just a little more distance or maps that make it a non issue. To me a mission that takes a week to complete because I make stupid mistakes is fun.

That puts in in the small fraction of PC gamers less than a couple of percentage points, and no one is going to build a game for me. So I live with what I get, could this game be better sure but it could also be a lot worse. I will enjoy it while it lasts, hope for some good mods and maybe make some of my own.

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Papa this type of thread to a developer must be heatbreaking I know they are thick skinned but come on.

There are so many things in this version of the game that have come directly from feed back here, in other words what you me and others wanted are in the game.

This game developer has a timetable, I would say 10 months period.

You can only give people a certain ammount in that time.

Will we get the same ongoing support ie updates as graw 1 doubt it, they are already working on new games.

We will get fixes a bit of new content but that will be it.

Ubisoft is about turnover has this not sunk in yet, I dont believe you can produce a really great game in the time these guys get, this is why the tools have or will have the tools to do more if we want and can, no developer ever has given us the same tools they use to create a game, this developer is.

This development team know what we would like in a game, but its simple, they do not have the time to do all of it.

IE 2 years clear work.

We will only get 2 good years worth of work out of a developer who is not tied up in knots by a distibuter and believe me thats the truth.

Yes you may feel letdown, yes you may feel they got it wrong, but at the end of the day they have produced a game that is all round a good game with loads of potential and in 10 months.

To carry on moaning about this and that in my view is pointless the Distributer sets the time table and as long as that happens you will always get a game that is unfinished, not fully tested, and not have all the ingredients in on the 1st day of release.

I dont feel let down I feel I got a game worth playing, and I look forward to mods for the game and xtra content from the Developer.

The content within the game, the capabillities of the game, the look the feel all point to a job well done.

If these guys were left alone for 2 years with no heavy resrtiction on content or time imagine what they could produce. Its a pity but I suspect this would never happen our loss.

Any way I woffled on too long Papa your post in parts is correct but you have to look at why it is correct, look with more open eyes and understanding, Grin is not your monster Distributers are.

Colin

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@ colin:

+= the game works.

+= the game runs smoother

-= no real tactical gameplay.

+= better graphics

-= little gameplay for the money..ie few hours of gameplay for $50

-= features like modding tools. most companies have offered atleast basic tools or an editor

-= declining community, too many servers with 0/24,32 players. WDA BDA seem to be the most active.

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@ colin:

+= the game works.

+= the game runs smoother

-= no real tactical gameplay.

+= better graphics

-= little gameplay for the money..ie few hours of gameplay for $50

-= features like modding tools. most companies have offered atleast basic tools or an editor

-= declining community, too many servers with 0/24,32 players. WDA BDA seem to be the most active.

He's got a point, at 19.30 CET all you see are empty servers.Just joined the Fc server ,had a ping 60-80 , had to stop coz the lag. Yes it was dedicated...

We (this game ) need something FAST. :wall:

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@ colin:

+= the game works.

+= the game runs smoother

-= no real tactical gameplay.

+= better graphics

-= little gameplay for the money..ie few hours of gameplay for $50

-= features like modding tools. most companies have offered atleast basic tools or an editor

-= declining community, too many servers with 0/24,32 players. WDA BDA seem to be the most active.

Hi mate Im still here lol.

Tatical I would say this depends on who you play with.

The game allows for more tatical in this version than the last.

I have seen a couple of teams do mission rosen with a lot of stealth no cas and very few rounds fired.

Ammount of game play I would say is down to how much is in the game, IE time spent on content, this we already know is lower than expected but a time ailment as well.

Mod tools are not in on release and yes this was a mistake I hope not too costly, but we are getting them, please remember its a crappy time of year, summer hols for dev team and patch team is only small, as the rest of the guys work on new projects, not an excuse just a fact of life.

Declining MP yes agreed and this is a kick from the lack of tools and low content but soon to be sorted, Im not sure if you are a team member any where but I know that team players ie clans are much more active towards the game than others, like you said yourself.

They do say some times life is what you make it this is very true and can be extended to games and company that you play with.

Any way T time,

later.

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I've tried to stay out of this thread, Papa you are certainly entitled to your opinion.

I just don't see how somebody can say this game is not tactical.

As far as gameplay for the money, I guess the difference between us is I bought this game for the multiplayer aspect, to play with my squadmates. I haven't even tried single player, played co-op for a night, and played 3 missions of campaign co-op.

This game is by far the closest thing to the original GR that has been put out since 2001.

I am a little perplexed by the lack of players online, and the amount of empty servers, but that is not to say that you cannot find a game to play.

I refused to play GRAW1. I thought it was a POS. I have a feeling that if GRAW1 would have been better, or on the level of GRAW2, then there would be a lot more people playing the game now. As it stands many people were so turned off by GRAW1, they haven't even given GRAW2 a second thought.

The shame is, that GRIN really made up for GRAW1 with this release. I am really impressed with what they have done, and how this game really feels like it's roots are from the original GR. Now we are all just waiting to see what GRIN does with this game next. I am keeping the faith that they will patch in some things that are dearly needed to keep us playing.

I for one would be just fine with buying expansions to the game like EA has done with their BF series, if this is what it would take for GRIN to keep working making this game better. I'm sure my statement will draw some criticism, but this is honestly the way I feel.

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I have to agree w/the whole of Zenjant's post. GRIN did themselves proud with GRAW2. As for s/p, I don't put too much stock in that as I play on the hardest level first. I finished s/p in a week of casual play so what's left? M/P of course. And that's where the tactical gameplay is at.

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Roses are red,

Violets are blue,

I'm schizophrenic,

and so am I.

Anyone remember all the complaints about GRAW 1 not having quick saves? So, they added quicksaves to GRAW 2. Quick saves, by design, shorten a game. Now people complain the game is too short. Replay on hardcore using only the checkpoint saves. It should take you 2x as long, at least!

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Anyone remember all the complaints about GRAW 1 not having quick saves? So, they added quicksaves to GRAW 2. Quick saves, by design, shorten a game. Now people complain the game is too short. Replay on hardcore using only the checkpoint saves. It should take you 2x as long, at least!

Same reason I never saved in GR1... I see quick saves as built-in cheats basically. If gonna play a game, then why not try and play it for real. So what if you have to replay and hour, that's nothing as it allows you to try more of the features.

In GRAW2 you can turn off the save feature inside the mission script... :devil:

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Same reason I never saved in GR1... I see quick saves as built-in cheats basically. If gonna play a game, then why not try and play it for real. So what if you have to replay and hour, that's nothing as it allows you to try more of the features.

Yep :thumbsup: totally agree

Bit pointless to campaign for "realism + OSOK" and then "spamming the K key" to replay the last "10 mins" where you now know the result

surely cheapens/dampens the feeling of satisfaction and achievement ?

Just like, in GR was not the much vaunted game to play Elite, with threat indicator off and no respawns...

sucked a lot for beginners but it sure made you quickly improve your teamwork, stealth and tactics

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<----- self confessed "k" stabber.

Each to his own!

You are an exception..

....You're so busy, you just don't have an hour to replay :P

"eek Tank! " [k]...."eek Sniper!" [k]...."eek Rock!" [k]...."eek Mild peril!" [k]...."eek machine gunner!" [k]....

:lol:

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....You're so busy, you just don't have an hour to replay :P

That basically is what it boils down to, time. I'm sure there are other folks who have to squeeze in their game time these days, so the option to quick save is a real life saver, pun intended. :D

Zenjant' date='Aug 9 2007, 08:19 PM' post='486174']

I just don't see how somebody can say this game is not tactical.

Exactly, tactics is how you play the game. Like minded people on a GRAW server can play as tactical as they like, it's all good.

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Same reason I never saved in GR1... I see quick saves as built-in cheats basically. If gonna play a game, then why not try and play it for real. So what if you have to replay and hour, that's nothing as it allows you to try more of the features.

:yes:

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1. Lightspeed goes on about this too, but really, pick virtually any [GR] co-op tournament mission over the years and you'll see the same thing, and I include Lightspeed's current 7 mission tournament in that. The objectives are laid out in a specific order, sometimes the next objectve does not appear until the first next is complete. When it comes to linearity, I think some look back with rose tinted glasses.

OUCH...how did I end up in this??

First of all, in relation to papa's post - it's quite clear to me that Papa is losing his marbles and rapidly. How many posts and backflips and complaints on the one game?? I have heard, seen, and indeed, written some of the same things in the past. (Funny tings is - Papa disagreed with me on the 'immersion' factor last time...now he has executed a glorious backflip scoring 9.75 and agrees with me). Hard to keep up.

How many posts from papa about the same ###### do we need to see?

You liked it, and now you don't - EVERYONE knows that. So buy another game or fix this one - simple.

_________

Now back to my quote Rocky - I raised the issue that it is still linear - not as bad as before and I stand by that. And you're right - a lot of [GR] required you to complete one part before you could complete another. Having said that - YOU COULD STILL WALK THE WHOLE MAP IF YOU CHOSE TO - in order to complete the objectives.....and THAT'S NOT LINEARITY. :P

_________

having said all that though - I raised some of the issues I still have with GRAW2 (as constructive criticicism only) in order to help improve or offer suggestins to the GRIN team on how to make a great gaem even better.

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First of all, in relation to papa's post - it's quite clear to me that Papa is losing his marbles and rapidly. How many posts and backflips and complaints on the one game?? I have heard, seen, and indeed, written some of the same things in the past. (Funny tings is - Papa disagreed with me on the 'immersion' factor last time...now he has executed a glorious backflip scoring 9.75 and agrees with me). Hard to keep up.

score2.jpg

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OUCH...how did I end up in this??

Because I remember you making the same linearity point before and I couldn't drag myself in to the debate at that time, but when I saw someone else going all linear on GRAW2 again, I couldn't let it go. :thumbsup:

Having said that - YOU COULD STILL WALK THE WHOLE MAP IF YOU CHOSE TO - in order to complete the objectives.....and THAT'S NOT LINEARITY. :P

Nope, and like I keep saying :wall: GRAW2 let's you walk the whole map too, as you well know - you are building a map right now that allows that. Some of the maps in the campaign allow that.

Sometimes I wonder if I got shipped a different campaign for some of you guys. :wacko:

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Hi All,

Don't throw rocks at me or anything for saying this please.

I think the comparison to [GR] as the gold standard is growing old. I think GRAW:2 is better. I may be in the minority here but I never play [GR], it doesn't live on my hard disk and hasn't for quite a while.

I agree with Chilly. I'm yawning every time one of the people here talks about [GR] like it was the original Star Wars or Mike Tyson's Punch Out or Transformers or whatever piece of nerd paradise you've made it out to be in your head.

I like games, this game is fun.

Im glad im not the only one, if [GR] was so good why are you looking for a new version. I enjoyed graw1, and when I was expecting graw2 i wanted a totally new game. And i totally got want i wanted, new guns, new maps, and new feel. Ok, I did find graw2 hard at 1st, but thats what I want from a game. Now clans are scrimming/matching its time to enjoy & appreciate the new game. BTW nice work GRIN.

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