GRAW2: Anti Cheat is needed ASAP

[AA_sKILLsEw]

Sounds like a recipe for death.

Grin, anything to keep us from packing up?

Would probably be a good idea to give us some idea of whats to come. Before there is no one left.

Grin?

[PersianImmortal]

Sounds like a recipe for death.

To be honest given that it's next to impossible to find a populated server out of dozens of empty servers, I think the game may well die its death due to lack of attention.

Worse still, when you do find a populated server, it's been altered to suit a particular clan. For example the BDA server now has a 3 respawn maximum, even for team deathmatch. That's quite frankly just a recipe for sniper camping, which makes for boring matches.

So I think an anti-cheat is probably the least of GRAW 2's worries.

[=WO=TekHousE]

As I read through this I see a Grin guy reading as well..

Any comments mate? Is there light at the end of the tunnel?

[=3dS=rOOk]

For example the BDA server now has a 3 respawn maximum, even for team deathmatch. That's quite frankly just a recipe for sniper camping, which makes for boring matches.

A matter of taste, to me 3 respawns is way too much.

I remember that in in golden ages of [GR] there were lot of server full of ppl at zero respawn. Too bad that now to find one you have to compete on some tournament.

[BSR_CINCH]

HEY ROOK,

You can come over to our server, we have no respawns, and usually a server full around 9pm EST Come check it out, a bunch of good guys over there several clans play here!!

[ruggbutt]

Only if the 'replay tool' could 100% see what the hacker is seeing. Will it? With a server side command to fire it up?... Or are we gonna stockpile video?

Replays in every game I've seen are merely text files with positional data on each and every player, round (missile) fired, etc. GR replays were text files of a sort. If you opened one with notepad your head would explode. So it's not like video, it would use the GRAW engine to "replay" the file. That's how [GR] worked.

[PersianImmortal]

A matter of taste, to me 3 respawns is way too much.

For clan matches or competition, sounds perfectly fine to have very few if any respawns. On a public server it makes for boring matches. I like strategy as much as the next guy, but playing TDM with 3 respawns means the only real strategy which works is picking a spot and staying motionless/dead silent for most of the match. This tends to be most effective for the snipers. It also means that when the enemy team camps/rapes your spawn, you're screwed. You lose one or two of your respawns because spawn protect is not enabled (or possibly set to 1 or 2 seconds) on that same server. A quicker way for GRAW 2 to die there probably isn't.

Anyway I didn't mean to take the thread way off topic, again my point was that by relying on "the community" to provide everything, from active servers to anti-cheat policing to modifications to fix gameplay balance problems, GRIN is dooming this game to a tiny niche group of players.

Simply put the scenarios I'm seeing now pretty much say that majority rules, and if the majority decides that I am a cheat, apparently I have to abide by it, since I'll be banned from the handful of active servers that are available and there's no way to actually provide solid evidence to counter the claims. Same with server rules and server setup - since there are so few populated servers, majority rules in determining the server setups. So you get things like 3 respawn caps, virtually no spawn protect, and ultimately a recipe for lots of one-sided matches.

I like this game and I want to keep playing it, but without balanced, impartial and forward-thinking changes being incorporated into the core game, and not reliance on the particular tastes and desires of particular individuals or clans, GRAW 2 will simply become a game played by a small group of people. While that sounds nice for the hardcore players, it is a bit of a rip off for the rest of us who purchased this game expecting much more from it.

[bulgy]

SS tool??? Its that [Print Scrn] button on your keyboard...

But, as seen in RvS, I can SS you and photoshop it so damned well, you "could" be banned. Are you going to police all the SS's and videos? Who do you expect to do so?

The only type of SS which player take note of are PBSS from PB and if you want to have a go at faking a PBSS go head, at PsB we have got tool which can see a fake PBSS a mile of

Back to this topic.

Please let grin do there job, sometimes it can take weeks to come up with a patch to stop a hack, Grin may have to do a lot of recodeing to stop this hack so give them sometime and let them do there job..

[AA_sKILLsEw]

No Persian,

I don't think you took it 'way' off. Its relevant to the outcome of the original topic outcome... death.

Just another reason.

Grin? Anything to look forward to?

Edited August 8, 2007 by AA_sKILLsEw

[AA_sKILLsEw]

SS tool??? Its that [Print Scrn] button on your keyboard...

But, as seen in RvS, I can SS you and photoshop it so damned well, you "could" be banned. Are you going to police all the SS's and videos? Who do you expect to do so?

The only type of SS which player take note of are PBSS from PB and if you want to have a go at faking a PBSS go head, at PsB we have got tool which can see a fake PBSS a mile of

Back to this topic.

Please let grin do there job, sometimes it can take weeks to come up with a patch to stop a hack, Grin may have to do a lot of recodeing to stop this hack so give them sometime and let them do there job..

SUDDENLY WE HAVE PB AND PBSS's?

I was speaking about NORMAL Prnt Screen, screenshots. Something we would have if we had NO A-C.

PLEASE READ THE WHOLE POST NEXT TIME, NOT JUST THE PART THAT LETS YOU SAY HOW GREAT PB IS.

If we had PB and PBSS, we wouldn't be having half this convo? Keep up. (JUST HALF)

And good GOD don't tell me what PB "would" do. Cause like I said, I played RvS from the jump and wasn't that impressed. I never got a response from anyone on PB staff about anything for years. NOW SUDDENLY you come around telling me what you "would do/could do."

I'm guessing you just want Grin to contact you for support? Little bit more money, yes? They didn't come running for PB like you had hoped seeing this topic started???

And I AM letting Grin do their job. I'm just asking for some idea of what that may be? We all are.

[Tinker]

http://www.ghostrecon.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=45671

AA_sKILLsEw

And I AM letting Grin do their job. I'm just asking for some idea of what that may be? We all are.

And we all already know the answer, see link. So stop asking.

[Bottobot]

SS tool??? Its that [Print Scrn] button on your keyboard...

But, as seen in RvS, I can SS you and photoshop it so damned well, you "could" be banned. Are you going to police all the SS's and videos? Who do you expect to do so?

The only type of SS which player take note of are PBSS from PB and if you want to have a go at faking a PBSS go head, at PsB we have got tool which can see a fake PBSS a mile of

Back to this topic.

Please let grin do there job, sometimes it can take weeks to come up with a patch to stop a hack, Grin may have to do a lot of recodeing to stop this hack so give them sometime and let them do there job..

SUDDENLY WE HAVE PB AND PBSS's?

I was speaking about NORMAL Prnt Screen, screenshots. Something we would have if we had NO A-C.

PLEASE READ THE WHOLE POST NEXT TIME, NOT JUST THE PART THAT LETS YOU SAY HOW GREAT PB IS.

If we had PB and PBSS, we wouldn't be having half this convo? Keep up. (JUST HALF)

And good GOD don't tell me what PB "would" do. Cause like I said, I played RvS from the jump and wasn't that impressed. I never got a response from anyone on PB staff about anything for years. NOW SUDDENLY you come around telling me what you "would do/could do."

I'm guessing you just want Grin to contact you for support? Little bit more money, yes? They didn't come running for PB like you had hoped seeing this topic started???

And I AM letting Grin do their job. I'm just asking for some idea of what that may be? We all are.

Skillsew you know I like you but man you sound like an ass sometimes. You can demand all the answers you want from GRiN but they aren't gonna respond because they can't! They can't talk about something they are gonna do, only things they have done. As has been repeated over and over. The patch is coming soon, lets see what happens and make our decisions then. Either way, why isn't your team in the ladder? I haven't come across any hackers in the TWL ladder so its been fair competition. The ladder is very open, and if you ever wanna challenge us, we'd be happy to take you on. Any gametype, any map.

[FI_FlimFlam]

SS tool??? Its that [Print Scrn] button on your keyboard...

But, as seen in RvS, I can SS you and photoshop it so damned well, you "could" be banned. Are you going to police all the SS's and videos? Who do you expect to do so?

The only type of SS which player take note of are PBSS from PB and if you want to have a go at faking a PBSS go head, at PsB we have got tool which can see a fake PBSS a mile of

Back to this topic.

Please let grin do there job, sometimes it can take weeks to come up with a patch to stop a hack, Grin may have to do a lot of recodeing to stop this hack so give them sometime and let them do there job..

SUDDENLY WE HAVE PB AND PBSS's?

I was speaking about NORMAL Prnt Screen, screenshots. Something we would have if we had NO A-C.

PLEASE READ THE WHOLE POST NEXT TIME, NOT JUST THE PART THAT LETS YOU SAY HOW GREAT PB IS.

If we had PB and PBSS, we wouldn't be having half this convo? Keep up. (JUST HALF)

And good GOD don't tell me what PB "would" do. Cause like I said, I played RvS from the jump and wasn't that impressed. I never got a response from anyone on PB staff about anything for years. NOW SUDDENLY you come around telling me what you "would do/could do."

I'm guessing you just want Grin to contact you for support? Little bit more money, yes? They didn't come running for PB like you had hoped seeing this topic started???

And I AM letting Grin do their job. I'm just asking for some idea of what that may be? We all are.

Talk about "keeping up"... Bugly's NOT Evenbalance staff. He's staff at a community website www.punksbusted.com that is dedicated to using PB to fight cheating. They didn't write PB but have developed tools to use with PB, one of which is their SS checker. GRIN have included a screen shot function with the dedicated server. I don't think anyone would be calling for the generic PRN SCRN type of "screen shots" to be used for any kind of community ban list. If GRIN can give us some increased functionality and logs to go along with the SS, then perhaps PsB or other community members could come up with a similar tool as Bugly mentions they have to use with PB Screen Shots.

Any more tools that can aid in fighting cheating is a good thing. Addittionally, just because they work with PB, doesn't mean you should discount their experience and expertese regarding anti-cheats as that many of the admins there also admin other games that do not use PB. It would be ill considered to just ignore what bugly says and the help he could give.

[AA_sKILLsEw]

Be careful GRIN. Look at what happened to the R6V community when they were deprived of patch info for half a year. The mods on the R6V forums were all like "Ooooh well we can't discuss patch info because its confidential. We won't tell you if we're even working on it or what it will address." Kinda like what you're starting to to here.

Now look at the game. Theres nobody playing and the community died. I dont understand all the confidentiality behind patching a game. Its not like you're giving out nuclear launch codes, it's a patch for a game. Why does UBI have to be so secretive?

Is a simple "Yes we are working on a patch" that hard to confirm? If I buy a bike and it doesn't work properly or does not have some thing it should have had in the first place, I call the bike shop and ask for a repair. The bike shop doesn't say "oooh well we are not going to tell you if we can repair your bike or not. Sorry its confidential." They say "Okay bring the bike in we will have it fixed up by monday."

I just don't see why it's so hard, is all

Look familiar?

How about true thoughts, not just kissing up.

Edited August 8, 2007 by AA_sKILLsEw

[Bottobot]

Can someone please lock this thread? Its just getting dumb.

[[ZA]Zenjant]

The replay tool??? Like they said, only relevant in competition situations. (which would be nice) Otherwise we already have one, its called Fraps.

P.S.

This is my 1st G.R. experience, I am ignorant about the replay tool, how did it work?

In the original GR the replay could be viewed at any moment, from any players eyes. So for example you could look through the shooters eyes, and see him shoot somebody, then you could go back and watch the exact same moment through the eyes of the guy that got shot, or anybody else for that matter.

Fraps only records what the Fraps guy is watching. So you can get a replay of the shooter if you are in death cam watching him. That is it. Not good enough as far as I'm concerned. Way too much can go unnoticed unless you happen to be watching and recording some punk at the moment he gives away the fact that he is using some sort of cheat. The replay gave us the proof that somebody was a cheater, and the entire community could watch a posted video of the cheater in action without any doubt that he was wrongly accused. In my experience cheating goofs will never admit they were cheating, even with undeniable evidence being slapped on top of them.

See the thing is GRIN could make a PB that counters the hacks that are out there, but then the hackers would eventually get around the new PB...it is what they do.

With the original replay system we had a tool to battle this vicious circle, and weed out the "professional" hacker. I relied on it many times to keep our server protected, and our ladder legit. Like I have said in previous posts, if something just doesn't feel right, or seems unexplainable, you knew you had a replay to fall back on to figure out what exactly was going on.

[sui317]

it does not look familiar, cause grin has a good record on this board with regards to service and info and like i said in various posts. if you are anoyed by a cheat and you can find it on the net, mail it and they will look at it.

changing things always has effects, and when negative effects arise it takes longer, any one knows that bugs often come with patches and that the dev team gets it, so now they do their best, not raising any hopes on particular things nor denying requests, they are silent, respect that and if you do not understand, please go read the first half year of forum in the GRAW section,

grin always try to to the best they can, and it would be nice to show some of that in return,

[AA_sKILLsEw]

TY Zenjant, Ruggbutt for bringing me up to speed.

Instead of busting my chops for being serious to a PB(whatever) instead of slurp,slurp. Like the rest.

[GRIN_Wolfsong]

Be careful GRIN. Look at what happened to the R6V community when they were deprived of patch info for half a year. The mods on the R6V forums were all like "Ooooh well we can't discuss patch info because its confidential. We won't tell you if we're even working on it or what it will address." Kinda like what you're starting to to here.

Now look at the game. Theres nobody playing and the community died. I dont understand all the confidentiality behind patching a game. Its not like you're giving out nuclear launch codes, it's a patch for a game. Why does UBI have to be so secretive?

If you don't like it I suggest you stop playing games. Because this is they way game development has to be done of the community will get ###### if someone says something is being worked on and it's not included in the next patch. Even if it's because it just proved impossible to fix for a patch as it would require large reconstruction of the entire game or that it simply got moved up to the next patch. Same goes for dates. If a date is given and the patch/release does not happen on that exact date there will be complaining even if it is because something extra could be fixed and included. Because of this developers can't give specific details on what is currently being worked on.

The only thing that is certain is that the next patch will include modding tools, which was promised to the community many months before the game was released by multiple sources.

[ruggbutt]

TY Zenjant, Ruggbutt for bringing me up to speed.

Instead of busting my chops for being serious to a PB(whatever) instead of slurp,slurp. Like the rest.

No worries Skills. I'm not exaggerating when I say that 5 ladders that I can think of were using my tool religiously. Did it spot SIFF? No. It caught retlockers and IMHO that was the worst cheat as you could hit whatever you wanted to at a full run. Several that we knew in our hearts were using SIFF got caught using retlock too. After that, it was irrelevant what else they were using. That's not to say we didn't catch SIFF'ers. I have tons of replays of SIFF'ers firing at the middle of tree trunks, at a hill exactly where the players' name was, staring at names thru wall on Vilnius and other obvious stuff. I'm not naive enuf to think we caught them all, but all teh squads in the ACC had the absolute cleanest servers you find games on. No one from the GR days will dispute that. If you want to see how effective we were, visit our forum ban list. We have hackers admitting to hacking as well as people that have been banned for poor behavior on pub servers. We just don't want their business. In fact, all the posts there reflect [GR] with the exception of one.

I'd love to see replays but I think we're all just SOL. I would imagine UBI is on GRIN's case to move onto GRAW3 so we prolly won't see the tools we need. That being said, I'm working w/some of the leaders of squads to get a syllabus down for those of us who get to watch in death cam. I've seen some funky stuff but not jumping to conclusions. We're testing to see if the stuff we're seeing is a glitch or bug in the death cam. I don't want to say more at this juncture. Once we get the testing out of the way I'll post my results so that all of you can know what to look for (or ignore) in death cam view.

Edited August 8, 2007 by ruggbutt

[AA_sKILLsEw]

Sound promising Ruggbutt.

Wolfsong, I understand you don''t want to say something "may" happen. When it may not. And the people would be in an uproar.

But in that case, TELL us it won't/can't be fixed. That it WILL take too much time, or that it WILL be in a later patch. Then there would be no uproar. No matter if you said it could be done or not. Letting us know would at the least keep people around.

[WDA_OPTIMUSPRIME]

I have nothing to say about PB and Graw, but I want to mention that quite a few of our titles added PB support after their release. A game does not have to have PB out of the box, it can be added later, but it is generally better to go the out of box route for various reasons.

Source

[ROCO*AFZ*]

A matter of taste, to me 3 respawns is way too much.

For clan matches or competition, sounds perfectly fine to have very few if any respawns. On a public server it makes for boring matches. I like strategy as much as the next guy, but playing TDM with 3 respawns means the only real strategy which works is picking a spot and staying motionless/dead silent for most of the match. This tends to be most effective for the snipers. It also means that when the enemy team camps/rapes your spawn, you're screwed. You lose one or two of your respawns because spawn protect is not enabled (or possibly set to 1 or 2 seconds) on that same server. A quicker way for GRAW 2 to die there probably isn't.

Anyway I didn't mean to take the thread way off topic, again my point was that by relying on "the community" to provide everything, from active servers to anti-cheat policing to modifications to fix gameplay balance problems, GRIN is dooming this game to a tiny niche group of players.

Simply put the scenarios I'm seeing now pretty much say that majority rules, and if the majority decides that I am a cheat, apparently I have to abide by it, since I'll be banned from the handful of active servers that are available and there's no way to actually provide solid evidence to counter the claims. Same with server rules and server setup - since there are so few populated servers, majority rules in determining the server setups. So you get things like 3 respawn caps, virtually no spawn protect, and ultimately a recipe for lots of one-sided matches.

I like this game and I want to keep playing it, but without balanced, impartial and forward-thinking changes being incorporated into the core game, and not reliance on the particular tastes and desires of particular individuals or clans, GRAW 2 will simply become a game played by a small group of people. While that sounds nice for the hardcore players, it is a bit of a rip off for the rest of us who purchased this game expecting much more from it.

That is how "you" may play it, but not "me"

BSR can attend that i am probably one of the most aggressive players even on no spawn servers such as theirs (which i play on alot when pubbing)

You will find me usually in the top 3 spots round per round. Campers are easy to find once you know the maps... as you always check those spots 1st or prefire them. I round the corner looking and sometimes randomy shooting a bush with my mp5 2ndary looking for the orange blotch to get the a kill with.

And yes i also have been accused of hacking a few times by newer players that don't know the maps.

[Guest]

lol why do you think people get the most kills when they camp in a public server? Because nobody is using strategy! They're just running around like a bunch of ADHD kids not looking where they're going. THAT to "me" is "boring"

[vekien]

lol why do you think people get the most kills when they camp in a public server? Because nobody is using strategy! They're just running around like a bunch of ADHD kids not looking where they're going. THAT to "me" is "boring"

Amen