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Hey Vipe

I know there is an AC with GRAW2 but it needs more IMHO.

We need server log files so that we can trace who comes and goes with the option of manually adding people to banlists as in circumventers.

I like the log file idea but what data would it log ?

Well if the server created logfiles like RvS it would log when someone has joined the server, their IP, their alias and their unique ID created by their CD key. If this would be possible you could link that to a custom banlist so if you get a complaint in the server when no admin is present or for instance you get a mass TK`er in ya server who leaves before you get the chance to ban him you could get the players info from your log files and manually add him to the banlist.

With log files you would also have the option of using Aliasfinder .. :0)

IMO it should log everything, playerjoins, player kills, player exits, map changes, map errors, Screenshot attempts and and validation hash, etc. This would be useful on many many levels. Complete player information should be logged as well for culling for a possible community repository to check with or to implement bans with later from for example screen shots.

This is something that some of us have been asking for since before 1.35 was released and it has been completely given no priority by GRIN.

Addittionally, I'd like to ask GRIN just what the AC update path is? Just how much will you support updating the AC? Also is it going to go further towards detecting 3rd party cheats? Or is it going to be in 5 months we'll never see another update again? And then cheaters have free reign.

Wise Wise Words And Something That Needs Addressing ASAP !!

Well Done That Man

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IMO it should log everything, playerjoins, player kills, player exits, map changes, map errors, Screenshot attempts and and validation hash, etc. This would be useful on many many levels. Complete player information should be logged as well for culling for a possible community repository to check with or to implement bans with later from for example screen shots.

This is something that some of us have been asking for since before 1.35 was released and it has been completely given no priority by GRIN.

Addittionally, I'd like to ask GRIN just what the AC update path is? Just how much will you support updating the AC? Also is it going to go further towards detecting 3rd party cheats? Or is it going to be in 5 months we'll never see another update again? And then cheaters have free reign.

+1 :)

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B071LD3' date='Aug 2 2007, 01:56 PM' post='483839']

Dude, the game has an anti cheat and the only reason and cheat gets past an anticheat because the hackers have the heads up, they know what they have to beat. The anticheat devs have to guess at what the hackers might try.

sorry but i dont agree that GRINs anti cheat isnt better then PB.

with PB we can get a Master Ban List, we could identify the cheaters and we could know who really cheats instead this stupid message "altered game files".

PB isnt perfect, but is for sure much better then the actual anti cheat.

Just look this casa: with PB a little cvar config change will allow to identify this cheat and identify/ban this stupid kid. With GRINs anti cheat we need a patch!!! and until that is avaible all kids will be boring the players :(

as soon as punkbuster is updated within 2 or 3 days there is a the cheating scum bag liveless t**** have got round it yet again, and the only problem with something like pb that it is more widely available and used on more games that more people are likely to want and try to abuse it.

lets face facts most of us have seen only probably a handful of people hacking, look at some other games and tbh i think we are rather lucky.

i no it doesn't help us at the minute but i think it could be worse.

Edited by {B:P:R}Joker
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B071LD3' date='Aug 2 2007, 07:56 AM' post='483839']

Dude, the game has an anti cheat and the only reason and cheat gets past an anticheat because the hackers have the heads up, they know what they have to beat. The anticheat devs have to guess at what the hackers might try.

sorry but i dont agree that GRINs anti cheat isnt better then PB.

with PB we can get a Master Ban List, we could identify the cheaters and we could know who really cheats instead this stupid message "altered game files".

PB isnt perfect, but is for sure much better then the actual anti cheat.

Just look this casa: with PB a little cvar config change will allow to identify this cheat and identify/ban this stupid kid. With GRINs anti cheat we need a patch!!! and until that is avaible all kids will be boring the players :(

I'm sorry to, because I have to disagreewith you about PB, I'm a admin over 4 servers that stream to PsB MBL does help only because of the fact we get to vote on the SS as community, but still the hackers just get new cd keys with there gens and go right back at it. Not because of PB bans them WE do because of the admins that take the time to do the work on thier servers. Not because PB bans them they are every where playing on PB servers, and untill HARDWARE BANS are in full force which will not happen then we will always be way behind with PB.

You talk as if PB where a good thing IT"S IS CRAP! I can't stress that enough how bad it really is. Don't think so here do some reading. Now please bear in mind this is from PB I'm about to show this PB DOESN'T ACCEPT PB SS!!!!! READ!!!!

31512340496.jpg

31512340479.jpg

PB is a awful program only time they ban people is a hack that's really old like game hooks and they like to brag like they have done something. If PB really wanted to help why don't have some forums up or have a site? Instead sitting behind EMAIL accounts. Clearly you've not had to deal with PB scubs.

I will agree however agree that a MBL does seem to work best NOT PB! So we do see eye too eye on that. Best thing we can do is have a site where we can review SS and vote on them ourselfs although it's not full proof. Nothing really is the only downfall to that is GRAW doens't snap SS randomly like other programs you have to stop what you're doing and issuie a command. I'd hope this problem will be addressed BY GRIN in the next patch if there is to be one.

Also consider the fact that the GRIN team does talk to the community!!! Which most company software teams never do so be thankful for that!

Edited by WDA_OPTIMUSPRIME
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PsB has close to 60000 bans on there public MBL. Then PB have there banlist with hardwarebans and yet WDA_OPTIMUSPRIME thinks PB is ######? If not for PB how many would be stoped from playing using cheats?

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here here to your last comment about grin listening.

that was the only good thing about the pgl match sneaker it may have been a pain in the ###### sometimes for people to set up but it also id'd your hardware so if you were banned and try to come back as someone else with a different ip it wouldnt let you.

that was a random screenshot system and worked pretty well tbh most of the time for me anyway.

with a few more tweaks i reckon that could be an answer to the latest matching tool as it stands at the min.

that and REPLAYS.

but we say replays i remember at least 5 or 6 of us asked for replays when we went to Sweden for graw .

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PsB has close to 60000 bans on there public MBL. Then PB have there banlist with hardwarebans and yet WDA_OPTIMUSPRIME thinks PB is ######? If not for PB how many would be stoped from playing using cheats?

There again hud PsB is not PB the 6000 bans are from players/admins over thier own servers NOT from PB! Again READ THE POST! and the pictures the MbL from PsB is not the same AS PB's.

Pb doesn't make the hardware ban list open to the public eye that I know of if so link me, Not many are stopped now WITH PB how much clearer can this be made IF you where a member of PsB you would know this. I see SS everyday with hackers on PB servers and playing on them so how many are really being stopped. So really the question is how many would be stopped without a MBL and not PB! Again as I said in my post before.

I don't think PB IS ***&&& I know it is! Why not give GRIN anti cheat a chance before yelling for PB's HELP which is little or none.

Also know this for most do all cheat site can promise they can BYPASS PB no problem! Here a little something I have from a fourm of theres. Also with the PICTURES above as you can read PB doesn't accept PBSS for proof! So again I'm no fan of the program. You might love it but after doing much research and having to deal with PB itself no thanks I will try GRIN new product! Or at least give it a chance.

pbjd0.th.jpg

Edited by WDA_OPTIMUSPRIME
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PsB has close to 60000 bans on there public MBL. Then PB have there banlist with hardwarebans and yet WDA_OPTIMUSPRIME thinks PB is ######? If not for PB how many would be stoped from playing using cheats?

There again hud PsB is not PB the 6000 bans are from players/admins over thier own servers NOT from PB! Again READ THE POST! and the pictures the MbL from PsB is not the same AS PB's.

Pb doesn't make the hardware ban list open to the public eye that I know of if so link me, Not many are stopped now WITH PB how much clearer can this be made IF you where a member of PsB you would know this. I see SS everyday with hackers on PB servers and playing on them so how many are really being stopped. So really the question is how many would be stopped without a MBL and not PB! Again as I said in my post before.

I don't think PB IS ***&&& I know it is! Why not give GRIN anti cheat a chance before yelling for PB's HELP which is little or none.

Also know this for most do all cheat site can promise they can BYPASS PB no problem! Here a little something I have from a fourm of theres. Also with the PICTURES above as you can read PB doesn't accept PBSS for proof! So again I'm no fan of the program. You might love it but after doing much research and having to deal with PB itself no thanks I will try GRIN new product! Or at least give it a chance.

pbjd0.th.jpg

PsB uses the PB engine, without PB no PsB. So to say that PsB is not PB is just plain stupid. I know PB's hardwareban is secret, what i don't understand is how you know that not many gets banned by PB nowadays? And i have been a member on PsB as SnapS*Stolichnaya since RvS got patched with PB, running servers for SnapS. And were did i not give GRiN's anti cheat a chance? Even thou it's pretty obvious that in the state it is now it's close to useless.

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PsB uses the PB engine, without PB no PsB. So to say that PsB is not PB is just plain stupid. I know PB's hardwareban is secret, what i don't understand is how you know that not many gets banned by PB nowadays? And i have been a member on PsB as SnapS*Stolichnaya since RvS got patched with PB, running servers for SnapS. And were did i not give GRiN's anti cheat a chance? Even thou it's pretty obvious that in the state it is now it's close to useless.

what i don't understand is how you know that not many gets banned by PB nowadays?

Simple really giving the number of fourms I'm a member of about PB you can clearly see people playing on PB server with hacks everyday. Now PB doesn't bust them the admins do via the SS option. Now I will give some credit to PB for gamehooks and KNOWN muilt hack which are are really old. Now given the fact all the players in the link below are hacking 100% no question about it none are hardware banned yet! You ask me how just run the GUIDS at PsB most have new keys are still playing and more then likey hacking away.

OMG HACKS!

I never calmed anything about any engines I said ban lists..... Clearly if your an admin at PsB you would see this... I guess you should look there for your answer all the advice I can give you. I mean go to the Bf2 section look at the hackers playing on STREAMING servers to PB and see for your self just how wonderful the program works.. >_<

As for giving GRIN a chance clearly sir it's state of "useless" was no indication of you not giving it a chance. :hmm:

Also given the fact that you can PM a grin member is outstanding with pb you will get an email address. Wait 3 to 5 days for a reply.

Giving the fact if the buck is passed to PB then GRIN is free to say talk to PB which the outcome could be a tail chasing effect.

With GRIN running the show there is no 3rd party problems. The buck stops with GRIN and them alone again if passed to PB then GRIN could say it's a PB problem and PB could say talk to GRIN about much like this with EA.

eaisjokerx5.th.jpg

So be very careful for what you wish for. You like PB fine I don't so well leave it at that.. You have your reasons as I have mine.

Edited by WDA_OPTIMUSPRIME
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I'll agree that the default setting on PB are about worthless, but if used like a tool with the help of sites like PsB it does help out a great deal.

I've submitted cheats links to both even balance and PsB, even balance you get a thank you reply and no updates, with PsB you get new cvar/md5tool checks within days.

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I'll agree that the default setting on PB are about worthless, but if used like a tool with the help of sites like PsB it does help out a great deal.

I've submitted cheats links to both even balance and PsB, even balance you get a thank you reply and no updates, with PsB you get new cvar/md5tool checks within days.

What I was hoping we could set something up like PsB tool with grins product being in its baby stage would be a good time to start if it can be done.... And I agree PsB and The boys over at ROC are outstanding members to all communitys. Thank goodness we got them cause without them PB would show its real color....

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1st of hello OPTIMUS hows it going m8?

some of need to under stand how PB works, it works just like your antivirus on your PC it can only stop a cheat when it comes out , also you need to look at what type of contract EB may have with someone like EA games I.E the contract may say that EB will only do 4 or 6 updates a year for BF2. and that is why tools like MD5 checks and PBSS are a great help for server admins.

And as for hardware bans i think you find EB has handed out about 700 hardware bans for BF2 give or take a few ;)

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1st of hello OPTIMUS hows it going m8?

some of need to under stand how PB works, it works just like your antivirus on your PC it can only stop a cheat when it comes out , also you need to look at what type of contract EB may have with someone like EA games I.E the contract may say that EB will only do 4 or 6 updates a year for BF2. and that is why tools like MD5 checks and PBSS are a great help for server admins.

And as for hardware bans i think you find EB has handed out about 700 hardware bans for BF2 give or take a few ;)

Hey buddy you playing GRAW it rocks! To eveyone ELSE I say sry about HI JACKING the thread. I'm very passinate about PsB. I hate hackers! I thought we should give others a chance to prove themselfs in the face of adversity. Nothing more or less :ph34r::blush::blush:

If anyone knows about PB and PsB it's nate he's the man! BTW nate do you think something can be crossbreed from GRINS product? Just asking.

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So you don't like PB since it is no good acording to you, yet what you want in GRiN's AC is the possibility to do with it as PsB does with PB? Mkay that makes sense 0:) . And on another note, when and how often should GRiN update there AC and how? As it was with GRAW they did it with every patch and last i checked the last patch in GRAW were made in november 06, does that mean that GRAW is unprotected now since most AC get cracked pretty fast and one of the nice things with PB is it's ability to be uppdated on the fly. And when were at it, How many patches will there be for GRAW2, 7 as in GRAW? Personally i would be happy if they made more than 2 before they move on and let GRAW2 go. Anyway i'm all for GRiN and there own AC if they put even half as much in that as Evenbalance does in PB. But i don't think that will happen GRiN will propably uppdate their AC a couple of times and then let i be at that.

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Hi all

I read this discussion right now. Yes I can confirm about [N8C]8In63r. I was on an official server yesterday afternoon (EU 6 if I remember) playing DM and he/she made something like 18 kills all with GL with one life (= infinite amno). After a while I saw him/her again in another official server playing TDM (don't remember which one) this time with a full auto m99 sniper rifle - I was in his deathcam - really amazing ..

Unfortunately I don't have screenshots or movies neither I did think picking up the weapon.

Personally it is the first time I see something like that - I'm usually rather skeptical but I saw it with my eyes.

So what to say? I agree this is just pathetic - but it was also rather annoying.

So it is good to hear that GRIN keep their eyes on AC measures - hope they can make it working.

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So you don't like PB since it is no good acording to you, yet what you want in GRiN's AC is the possibility to do with it as PsB does with PB? Mkay that makes sense 0:) . And on another note, when and how often should GRiN update there AC and how? As it was with GRAW they did it with every patch and last i checked the last patch in GRAW were made in november 06, does that mean that GRAW is unprotected now since most AC get cracked pretty fast and one of the nice things with PB is it's ability to be uppdated on the fly. And when were at it, How many patches will there be for GRAW2, 7 as in GRAW? Personally i would be happy if they made more than 2 before they move on and let GRAW2 go. Anyway i'm all for GRiN and there own AC if they put even half as much in that as Evenbalance does in PB. But i don't think that will happen GRiN will propably uppdate their AC a couple of times and then let i be at that.

Yes somewhat with md5 tools and cvar checks would be great dont' you think? Depending on how we craft it yes I would like to see the same input and feedback from the COMMUNITY that PsB provies. I'm sure they would even work with GRIN if need be..... I'm would think I can't speak for them...

As for the rest of it only GRIN can really answer you not there agian the PM comes in handy... :Pw00t

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Yes somewhat with md5 tools and cvar checks would be great dont' you think? Depending on how we craft it yes I would like to see the same input and feedback from the COMMUNITY that PsB provies. I'm sure they would even work with GRIN if need be..... I'm would think I can't speak for them...

As for the rest of it only GRIN can really answer you not there agian the PM comes in handy... :Pw00t

i think you find that PsB would be happy to work grin but at the end of the day its down to grin.

As for the tools we got a PsB i would have to sit down and have a good look at them and see how much work would be need to use them with GRAW2, plus i need to sit down and have a good look at the cheat system in GRAW2, if i find time i take a look to night.

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GRAW2 deffinatly needs work, we all know that, its still in its baby state but what GRIN does from here on in will decide whether the game will work or flop.

AC Staff and server admins needs more stuff in place. As stated earlier server logs are a must so we know who is in the server and the possibility of using Aliasfinder.

I`m not sure how the banlist works on GRAW2 ???

If someone is kicked from my server for cheating I assume it stays with my server giving the cheater the chance to play on other AC servers ???

Whats the use in that, we need something like PsB have where the global banlist is streamed to all servers, I cannot see any other way of keeping on top of things.

PsB is IMHO a godsend to all MP gamers, their MBL function is the best in the world and I have been streaming my RvS servers since day 1.

Server admin is hard at the best of time, people need to get their heads together to make our life easier and the game more enjoyable.

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@ bugly,

there's not much for you to look at. It's simply a turn on and forget. No other configuration is available at all. GRIN is keeping it pretty close to the vest which is reasonable. But you won't find much more than an on or off setting in regards to configuring it. Screenshots are the only other tool available and there is no configuration for the. They take a jpg of the client screen and transfer them to the root game folder on the server. They HAVE to be manually requested by an admin in game. Also the only reference to the player is their IP in filename which has no corresponding logs or other references. It does not contain CDKey hash information or anything that could be used to ban the player manually while not in game.

From an admin's perspective, that's it. That's the whole configure and use the AC in a nutshell.

@ Phoenix,

The ban consists of the player name, Ban hash ID that I believe is tied to the CDkey (but could be mistaken) and the player IP. It is located in the ban_list.xml file on the server. It's virtually impossible manually enter bans because there is no log references containing information that could be used to enter a ban entry in the xml file.

Edited by FI_FlimFlam
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Yes somewhat with md5 tools and cvar checks would be great dont' you think? Depending on how we craft it yes I would like to see the same input and feedback from the COMMUNITY that PsB provies. I'm sure they would even work with GRIN if need be..... I'm would think I can't speak for them...

As for the rest of it only GRIN can really answer you not there agian the PM comes in handy... :Pw00t

i think you find that PsB would be happy to work grin but at the end of the day its down to grin.

As for the tools we got a PsB i would have to sit down and have a good look at them and see how much work would be need to use them with GRAW2, plus i need to sit down and have a good look at the cheat system in GRAW2, if i find time i take a look to night.

Thank you! I hope GRIN will post and let us know thier plans and thougths on the matter as well. Ps bug need some help just PM me, I got a vent we can use.

@ bugly,

there's not much for you to look at. It's simply a turn on and forget. No other configuration is available at all. GRIN is keeping it pretty close to the vest which is reasonable. But you won't find much more than an on or off setting in regards to configuring it. Screenshots are the only other tool available and there is no configuration for the. They take a jpg of the client screen and transfer them to the root game folder on the server. They HAVE to be manually requested by an admin in game. Also the only reference to the player is their IP in filename which has no corresponding logs or other references. It does not contain CDKey hash information or anything that could be used to ban the player manually while not in game.

Maybe with GRIN and PsB working together something can be hashed out? Time will tell... Good info

Could you not configur a bot to snap SS to a ftp folder?

Edited by WDA_OPTIMUSPRIME
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Can I remind some mebers here there is an active AC system in the game it may not be perfect but its there.

Also you know if you see a player doing an odd thing in a game there are ways to report such behavour, with proof that is.

Talking about a person doing this or that on a server is no help in stoping it, none at all.

Get the details off to Admins on the site/server/ladder system or what ever. ASAP.

As long as games are made people will make hacks, its simple as that.

We have seen already this last month or so people being removed from websites/isp informed/etc, most of this was done with information from you the gamer.

Guys more action less talk.

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The only people being caught cheating are by those who are going to deathcam and "filming" it. Why all the talk about PB and other such methods when the one that works and always has worked is the very same one that is catching them now?

GRIN has heard this before but again I reiterate: replays!

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<ban hash_id="2f8fc08e50fdb8de14d6b6d02bf3d49e" name="[N8C]8In63r" ip="" duration="0" date="2007-08-01 15:19" day="2769" time="15.316667" end_day="" end_time="" />

What happened to the IP?

I'd like to know what it is so I can do a little research. :D

If anyone remembers the old method from [GR] of using winpcap to capture the ip's/names of people joining the server, I'm looking into doing a similar thing if we dont end up with proper server logs from the GRIN guys in a future patch.

All hail the way CS:S logs, I'd love if we had something like that in GR:AW2.

As for GRIN & PsB working together, i'd say thats a pretty mute point as its EvenBalance that develops punkbuster, not psb (they are just a repository). Unless UBI (or GRIN) stepped up and contracts with EB to have it integrated into the game, then there's not much to work with.

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