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GRAW2: Anti Cheat is needed ASAP


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I've just played a server with this guy in.

At first didn't think too much as I hadn't seen his name posted previously but someone kept trying to vote kick him, with no luck.

He dropped me a few times with the M99, then we ended up on the same team. From spawn I watched him rattle of a dozen or so nades from his MRC. Recalling the ban post I tk'd him (didn't get booted) and picked up the MRC, sure enough unlimited ammo on the gun and nades!!!

I then spent the next 4 -5 respawns tk'ing him until someone changed the server to auto kick tk's <_<

This is a novel approach to dealing with cheaters. If he can't play for being always TK'd (without the TKer being kicked him or herself), then maybe he or she will decide it isn't worth trying to cheat and TKing all the time as he is always on the sideline. Now this may be wishful thinking, but still funny.

How long was it before he finally tired of being TKed before he left the server?

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Can some one PM me the ban list also. Maybe the major clans should start creating a big ban list together. Rocky it could be a good idea if you selected the a trust set of clans, and get the captains/founders of each clan to communticate (and share ban lists), so everyone can work together help plug this issue until somethings done.

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Can one of you guys PM me with the ban info from your server ban list? I don't wanna see him in our server, best to be pre-emptive.

Additionally, it seems that we are catching people with replays of a sort. I have Fraps running all the time just for this reason. GRIN, please give us serverside replays. I'll bet every dedicated server out there has over a 200 gig h/d. We have the extra room for replays, no matter what the size.

Yeah, using Fraps this way can be fairly effective. I think it would be better if our dead eyes view was exactly the same as the player whom we are watching - including HUD information. Of course, full replay (player view, free camera, fast forward, rewind, pause, etc.) capability would be better.

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I was in the BDA server earlier today (Joker was there also) and saw [N8C]8In63r using the nade cheat. I killed him and picked up his gun and it had unlimited ammo and grenades on full auto.

Yeah, several of us from HOT were there for that too and can confirm that after picking up his gun, it did have unlimited ammo and grenades. Also witnessed the unlimited grenades and the auto-M99 last night as well...depressing. :wall:

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What's really sad is that the relatively few blatant cheaters will quickly cause people to start accusing the genuinely good players of cheating.

That's the biggest harm cheating does - it puts suspicion and doubt about everyone in your mind, and accusations, insults and abuse start being thrown around over and over again each round by people who are being beaten by legitimate means.

In general the votekicking and anit-cheat measures in GRAW 2 definitely need to be tightened, not to mention the implementation of proper automatic kicking for repeat teamkillers. These things can really allow a couple of immature people to ruin the gameplay on an entire server.

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also sent an email this morning to the guy at ubi who we had dealings with for the early mp beta i gave him the idiots id that viiper posted and asked him to get that added to the offical servers hopefully they will.

to be honest from what i have been reading it dont matter what you do you will also have cheaters unfortunately.

replays would be good but at the min all we can do is keep sharing info and put peoples names down and keep banning em from our servers. admins any chance of special thread just for ids of people that are caught so people can share them please at least we can try and get rid of most of the scum.

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Hi guys

We are looking into this matter. It is quite hard to do guess work without a repro case - so if any of you come across any files or such pls mail us at info@grin.se with the topic GL Cheat. Thanks

As for the comments of non existing AC etc - the filter kills a lot of cheats/attempts - so much it sometimes kicks you on bare suspision (and then ppl go crazy for that matter of course :))

It is interresting that you guys could actually pick up the gun and the cheat was available to you too - that makes is tracable if we get a hold of it while playing.

Hacks and cheats are like viruses - constantly upgraded it is very hard to write a 100% cheat free system - as everything can be broken with enough time.

But we're on it.

Bo

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It is essential for GRAW2 to have an adequate anti cheat; sure, you need to be on your toes to stay one step ahead of the cheats, and it won’t be easy, but if it keeps going the way it is at present, it will destroy all the hard work and reputation the GRIN Company has made to date.

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Can one of you guys PM me with the ban info from your server ban list? I don't wanna see him in our server, best to be pre-emptive.

Additionally, it seems that we are catching people with replays of a sort. I have Fraps running all the time just for this reason. GRIN, please give us serverside replays. I'll bet every dedicated server out there has over a 200 gig h/d. We have the extra room for replays, no matter what the size.

Yeah, using Fraps this way can be fairly effective. I think it would be better if our dead eyes view was exactly the same as the player whom we are watching - including HUD information. Of course, full replay (player view, free camera, fast forward, rewind, pause, etc.) capability would be better.

Replays really are the answer, because even with a working anti-cheat system, cheaters still get through and we can catch those with the replay system. Even if it only sorta works as long as we can watch a player from their POV, although being able to have a free cam move in 3d would be WAY better, would be a huge benefit to the whole community. An aimbotter will always eventually screw up and be obvious. Its just a matter of being able to see them do it.

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Hi Guys

Phoenix here, clanleader of Elite Shooters UK (www.es-uk.co.uk)

It saddens me to have to say that yes all these accusations are true and there is nothing we can do about it.

This game seriously needs an anticheat ASAP and one that will do the game justice otherwise it is gonna let the MP community down AGAIN !!

I am staff at ACAU which is an anticheat organisation (http://www.anticheatadminsunited.com/index.php) we support Ravenshield banlists and work hard keeping the hackers out of servers. GRAW2 is impossible to support without a good AC program that will create logfiles etc etc ...

Why wasn`t Punksbuster given the chance to support this game, I know NO AC is perfect but what PB has done for the RvS community is marvelous.

At this rate our server will be locked for members only, nobody likes this kind of behaviour in their servers but what are we to do. It seems that the console commands in this game are all over the place as player ID`s are not reported correctly all the time.

Don`t let this game fall apart guys, do something now before it`s too late .. :wall:

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Hi Guys

Phoenix here, clanleader of Elite Shooters UK (www.es-uk.co.uk)

It saddens me to have to say that yes all these accusations are true and there is nothing we can do about it.

This game seriously needs an anticheat ASAP and one that will do the game justice otherwise it is gonna let the MP community down AGAIN !!

Dude, the game has an anti cheat and the only reason and cheat gets past an anticheat because the hackers have the heads up, they know what they have to beat. The anticheat devs have to guess at what the hackers might try.

Hi guys

We are looking into this matter. It is quite hard to do guess work without a repro case - so if any of you come across any files or such pls mail us at info@grin.se with the topic GL Cheat. Thanks

As for the comments of non existing AC etc - the filter kills a lot of cheats/attempts - so much it sometimes kicks you on bare suspision (and then ppl go crazy for that matter of course :))

It is interresting that you guys could actually pick up the gun and the cheat was available to you too - that makes is tracable if we get a hold of it while playing.

Hacks and cheats are like viruses - constantly upgraded it is very hard to write a 100% cheat free system - as everything can be broken with enough time.

But we're on it.

Bo

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I just want to say that replays do go a long way. I played [GR] competitively and after the matches, the replay file that the SERVER produced was put up on the web for the captains and/or players of both teams. This made it so if there were any suspicions on either side, we could review the replay. Aimbots and such were actually very obvious because you could view ANY player through their eyes in those replays. We found and banished numerous players for cheating, and there were several clans, including my own, that found one of their own cheating and called them out. We had a very strong community back then, so once that person was identified, they were screwed in terms of multi player and had bans in place on almost all of the servers that were run by the teams. It would be nice to see this feature implemented into GRAW2 due to it's effectiveness.

It's nice to see a response from GRIN though either way on this whole matter. Thanks guys...hang in there!

Edited by BonkerS
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Hey Vipe

I know there is an AC with GRAW2 but it needs more IMHO.

We need server log files so that we can trace who comes and goes with the option of manually adding people to banlists as in circumventers.

We also need the option of custom banlists and the ability to load these banlists when the server starts up.

I also think it would be a good idea to have something like the L&L where AC Staff can check ID`s for people who go and buy another game when their ID has been banned.

There also needs to be a global banlist in place so that if someone gets caught on my server then they are banned on all AC activated servers.

All this is fairly straight forward stuff that any anticheat software should be looking at implementing. It is hard enough to admin a gaming server at the best of times but the above would make it easier for admins and AC staff !!

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Hi guys

We are looking into this matter. It is quite hard to do guess work without a repro case - so if any of you come across any files or such pls mail us at info@grin.se with the topic GL Cheat. Thanks

As for the comments of non existing AC etc - the filter kills a lot of cheats/attempts - so much it sometimes kicks you on bare suspision (and then ppl go crazy for that matter of course :))

It is interresting that you guys could actually pick up the gun and the cheat was available to you too - that makes is tracable if we get a hold of it while playing.

Hacks and cheats are like viruses - constantly upgraded it is very hard to write a 100% cheat free system - as everything can be broken with enough time.

But we're on it.

Bo

Thank you for the reply BO it's good to see you can take the time to answer us. Please keep us informed as to a new patch I would think would up date the ANTI -CHEAT and some of the bugs in game will there be one soon?

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Dude, the game has an anti cheat and the only reason and cheat gets past an anticheat because the hackers have the heads up, they know what they have to beat. The anticheat devs have to guess at what the hackers might try.

sorry but i dont agree that GRINs anti cheat isnt better then PB.

with PB we can get a Master Ban List, we could identify the cheaters and we could know who really cheats instead this stupid message "altered game files".

PB isnt perfect, but is for sure much better then the actual anti cheat.

Just look this casa: with PB a little cvar config change will allow to identify this cheat and identify/ban this stupid kid. With GRINs anti cheat we need a patch!!! and until that is avaible all kids will be boring the players :(

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Hey Vipe

I know there is an AC with GRAW2 but it needs more IMHO.

We need server log files so that we can trace who comes and goes with the option of manually adding people to banlists as in circumventers.

I like the log file idea but what data would it log ?

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IMO it should log everything, playerjoins, player kills, player exits, map changes, map errors, Screenshot attempts and and validation hash, etc. This would be useful on many many levels. Complete player information should be logged as well for culling for a possible community repository to check with or to implement bans with later from for example screen shots.

This is something that some of us have been asking for since before 1.35 was released and it has been completely given no priority by GRIN.

Addittionally, I'd like to ask GRIN just what the AC update path is? Just how much will you support updating the AC? Also is it going to go further towards detecting 3rd party cheats? Or is it going to be in 5 months we'll never see another update again? And then cheaters have free reign.

Edited by FI_FlimFlam
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