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What is GRAW2 really


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Y'know, It's always been in the back of my mind that most of the problems, restrictions to gameplay, content, modabilty, ect. have arisen out of an, albiet very pretty, but flawed game engine. I'm no computer expert, but it just seems like most of the things we expected as a successor to [GR] were given up for the pretty graphics.

Well. there is no question that in a world of limited resources and a desire for profit, you cannot sell a game today and be taken seriously as an A title without a certain minimum level of graphics and art. and the time and resources it takes today to generate a "A" title graphics engine and its required art can drain the available limited resources away from features.

In the days of GR1, there were more coders than artists on a "A" title. That is usually no longer true.

2 things were true in the old days of GR1 and RB6 (the original ones etc)

1. There were no consoles to compete.

2. Realism in gaming and simulation sold millions.

It is actually estimated today that things have gotten so complex in gaming (I didn't say realistic ... i said complex) that the gaming world sees the next big rush of dollars in "Casual Gaming". not in things like Crysis and Ghost Recon.

Check out this article .....

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6175957.html?...estnews;title;0

Edited by Sleepdoc
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Tell you what. GRAW 2 is no Merrell Sawtooth. Cause the Merrell Sawtooth doesn't require a patch. It's good straight out of the box.

And now your going to tell us all about all the other recent FPS games, that are "good out of the box"

Jeez, there`s always room here for interest.

Tinker

:rolleyes:

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^Papa, the problem is that you see a turd, and think that's just a turd. Whereas myself, and may other people see that it's not a turd, but in fact a condom filled with $1,250,000 worth of heroin that someone swallowed & subsequently pooped out.

(That analogy may or may not apply to you, Papa, but I had to use you just so I could post it :D)

until canga came and stunk it up, I'd have to say that I think curka-durka might see what I've thought silently myself. when GRAW came out, I made a comment that GRAW had nice lookign graphics but when that wore off...what was next? the gameplay sucked.

I've heard enough stink about the diesel engine and how great it is. I don't think they will EVER fix the draw distance bcz, it can't be done with THAT particular game engine. I have never dealt with such a debacle. well the first time shame on you ubisoft..the next time...shame on me.

I don't have any desire to fire up GRAW2 at all right now, that might change, but I'm sad to say that my internet radio station is a helluva lot more exciting that GRAW2 is.

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Who was that that I made the bet with about Papa jumping the fence within 1 month of release? Speak up, I owe you $50.

jk Papa, I know what you mean and completely agree. The game just has no real lasting appeal right now with how bland it feels. It could be really great if a few design choices were changed and a few months (at least) more spent fleshing the game out, but right now it feels like a bone without the meat.

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until canga came and stunk it up, I'd have to say that I think curka-durka might see what I've thought silently myself. when GRAW came out, I made a comment that GRAW had nice lookign graphics but when that wore off...what was next? the gameplay sucked.

It's Durka-Durka:)

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until canga came and stunk it up, I'd have to say that I think curka-durka might see what I've thought silently myself. when GRAW came out, I made a comment that GRAW had nice lookign graphics but when that wore off...what was next? the gameplay sucked.

It's Durka-Durka:)

that bolded area was a typo..plz take no offense bro. :rofl:

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Can someone who's been in the armed forces/armed response unit etc and actually been in a firefight answer this please. Ok this might sound like a really stupid question, but does GRAW2 portray the action how it might pan out in real life? I mean, there's the 360 approach which people say is "arcadish", but then i see the news and there are people spraying bullets down streets with AKs and it seems like all hell must be breaking loose somewhere and to me it looks like the action you see in the 360 version (within reason :P )

Then there's the way that the PC versions (GRAW / GRAW 2 demo ) tend to pan out... more like a game of chess. Maybe it's somewhere in between. But has anyone in the armed forces played this and thought yeah, that would happen just like that!

I know some people used to play VBS1 (i think thats what it was called) and that was a simulator used to train people. Could GRAW 2 come anywhere close to that if you disregard the view distance etc. For me, its's the sliding, being able to see my weapon, creeping about and being able to direct my "team" that makes it feel tactical, therefore more real. But then I see some 360 footage and I think to myself that looks intense, why doesn't the gameplay get as intense as that with bullets flying all over the place on the PC? If I remember from back when I used to play GRAW, there were 2, maybe 3 missions where my heart started beating really fast. The one where the embassy explodes and you have to defend it from tanks etc and you're ducking in the ruins thinkin s**t! and the one where you fight your way up a hill only to find that the team you are there to rescue is dead. Tnen the one where you're solo and your comms isoffline and you have to destroy the jammer. Those felt intense, therefore "real"

So what I want to know is:

does GRAW 2 feel "real" in the same way as the 3 issions I described from GRAW above? (i.e. do you feel your heart beating fast, or does it feel more like pop two shots and move on?). I'm only talking about co-op because from what I've read so far the TVT stuff is a nightmare.

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"Intense" doesn't necessarily translate to "real." In my experience, being in a firefight is just all out confusion, and lots of suppressive fire. But then again, i've never been in an offensive firefight before, i've always been running lol.

Ya gotta remember it's more of a game than anything. In some parts its high-paced, and at other times it is more like checkers rather than chess:) Although, if you have a few moments in there where your heart is pumping, that means you like it:)

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"Intense" doesn't necessarily translate to "real." In my experience, being in a firefight is just all out confusion, and lots of suppressive fire. But then again, i've never been in an offensive firefight before, i've always been running lol.

Ya gotta remember it's more of a game than anything. In some parts its high-paced, and at other times it is more like checkers rather than chess:) Although, if you have a few moments in there where your heart is pumping, that means you like it:)

Hmmm thats kind of what I mean. In the 360 version (yeah I know they are 2 seperate games, but bear with me) there's a video of a mission where everyone seems to be on full auto and can't hit the side of a double decker bus (its a bit "vanilla BF2", really) even though they are only across the road from each other. To me that seems more like the all out confusion that you mentioned and thats what i'd expect. I wouldn't expect enemies to constantly engage you (sometimes only one by one) using single shot. Can you see what I'm getting at? The firefights feel too clean if that makes any sense..... add to that the fact that I can see all the enemy coming on my tactical map and something just feels like its missing. A certain je ne sais quoi :unsure:

If I could change something i'd have a proper video feed for the headcam (all that high tech gear and money spent and we only get a Tron video feed, come on now :P ), i'd make the overview map the only map so that you dont get the detail and i'm make it so that the drone only sees in the direction you point it in and doesnt magically show all enemies. If the drone's meant to have some kind of commanche style target recognition system then so be it, but at the moment it seems like its just magically finding targets. They eye in the sky satellite view would have to be limited in the way the drone is at the moment. I'd rather have limited access to that and have to drone in more missions so that I can recon things myself

Also, if the enemy are meant to be the heavier armed against our technology, why dont they engage us more aggressively and pin us down with full auto? Only the .50 cal guys seem to do this. Is it because they arent as heavily armed as we were led to believe? After all they only have 5 mags when i pick up the guns they drop :P

Anyway, back to the point. Maybe with a few changes there'll be a bit more oooomph or whatever, but I won't be getting scared of any enemy if like people say, they only attack from the front or possibly the sides and once an area is clear nobody is going to attack from behind unless its a scripted predictable event. Especially if know they have 5 mags and i've got 4-5 in my primary weapon alone! Another 4 in my SMG, 4 in my pistol, a few frags and smoke (so i can just smoke them and run away like in RvS). Consider the fact that you can give your team pretty much the same and you have a small army right there. I havent even mentioned the fact that we've been told there's a mule.

All in all its no wonder people have completed the game so quickly now is it? This isn't a moan or anything, at the moment I see it like this. It's like a Tyson fight where we're Tyson and we knock out the enemy with 2 punches, or the enemy's Tyson and batters us. What i need is Ali vs Fraiser.... some give and take! Fingers crossed for the added content this time round. I appreciated the fixes for GRAW, but one new map just wanst enough.

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I think what you're looking for would involve little or no AI, but instead entirely scripted and controlled engagements. The AI, enemy & friendly, is doing what it "thinks" to be best at the moment. It may not seem real, but that's because it's AI. For more fierce engagements, I think you would need intelligent people to funnel the player to a particular location, then code the enemy NPC's to behave in a specific, or realistic, way. Of course, that would end up being too scripted (like R6V).

As it is now, when I replay a portion of a mission, the enemy NEVER does EXACTLY the same thing twice.

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Operations conducted by elite special forces like the Ghosts are bound to be more "clean" in reality than normal street fighting in Iraq, for example. SF Ops are usually meticulously planned, with solid intel, so the unit knows exactly what it's getting into and what it has to do. Therefore, if things go as planned, the firefights would indeed be as quick and as clean as they can be in games like this.

That's what originally attracted me to games of this type. War is messy, but the Ghosts can make war alot cleaner.

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Interesting thread, good feedback from both sides of the fence. I'll keep an eye on this one :popcorn:

I have yet to purchase the game, still waiting to see how the MP community is going to pan out. I still see some of the same complaints that GRAW had. People complaining of cheating or not a good enough AC, "Not competition ready", only 2 available spawn points in TDM.

How is the dedicated server side of it? lots of options? Are there any GSP's carrying it or offering it at a decent price? Is the MP community gaining a good number of players and servers or is it just creeping along? Laddering? Is it easily moddable?

Depending on the answers to these questions (IMO) will determine the games vitality.

Good post BTW Alderei

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I would say that the whole Tom Clancy's series got screwed. (Well except for SC) Ghost Recon isn't GR anymore. Just some hollywood-commando bull. Rainbow Six isn't R6 anymore. Also became a shoot-em up. Why the developers don't look back in time and see the things we really liked these games for? Shame.

Shame indeed. :( After playing the demo I knew I wasn't going to waste $50 on something that would only give me about $10 of SP content and I sure as heck didn't need another dust catcher as GRAW's doing an excellent job of that. :'(
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I would say that the whole Tom Clancy's series got screwed. (Well except for SC) Ghost Recon isn't GR anymore. Just some hollywood-commando bull. Rainbow Six isn't R6 anymore. Also became a shoot-em up. Why the developers don't look back in time and see the things we really liked these games for? Shame.

Shame indeed. :( After playing the demo I knew I wasn't going to waste $50 on something that would only give me about $10 of SP content and I sure as heck didn't need another dust catcher as GRAW's doing an excellent job of that. :'(

again, it is UBI who made those choices not GRIN nor RSE,

btw i believe mitchell is not returning next time round.... think the end of the game shows that and it might be the return of non hero GR in the future, unless ramirez is going to replace mitchell.....

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I have yet to purchase the game, still waiting to see how the MP community is going to pan out. I still see some of the same complaints that GRAW had. People complaining of cheating or not a good enough AC, "Not competition ready", only 2 available spawn points in TDM.
Unless you have been diligently keeping yourself updated within these forums, it's easy to understand how you might miss a LOT of information. You might want to check th modding forums. One Grinner said he created TDM maps with multiple spawn points using the editor. They are not official content, as he did it on his own time. My point is that supposedly, with the editor, modders will be able to create unique MP gametypes. Not just maps or mods, but different MP modes. Another Grinner commented that something like escorting a convoy would be possible. Some of the other possibilities with the editor may be multiple objectives that can be completed in ANY order, and your own unique SP campaign. If any of this is true, it is very exciting.
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btw i believe mitchell is not returning next time round.... think the end of the game shows that and it might be the return of non hero GR in the future, unless ramirez is going to replace mitchell.....

Better make that Henry Ramirez. Along with Jacobs, Buzz, Stone and the rest of the first Ghosts so they can bring Ghost Recon with them. Not Adwanced Warfighter.

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Operations conducted by elite special forces like the Ghosts are bound to be more "clean" in reality than normal street fighting in Iraq, for example. SF Ops are usually meticulously planned, with solid intel, so the unit knows exactly what it's getting into and what it has to do. Therefore, if things go as planned, the firefights would indeed be as quick and as clean as they can be in games like this.

That's what originally attracted me to games of this type. War is messy, but the Ghosts can make war alot cleaner.

Thanks, this is what I wanted to know :thumbsup:

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btw i believe mitchell is not returning next time round.... think the end of the game shows that and it might be the return of non hero GR in the future, unless ramirez is going to replace mitchell.....

Better make that Henry Ramirez. Along with Jacobs, Buzz, Stone and the rest of the first Ghosts so they can bring Ghost Recon with them. Not Adwanced Warfighter.

Yeah! Screw "Advanced Warfighter!" bring back the "Recon":) (the title has too many words in it anyway)

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I have yet to purchase the game, still waiting to see how the MP community is going to pan out. I still see some of the same complaints that GRAW had. People complaining of cheating or not a good enough AC, "Not competition ready", only 2 available spawn points in TDM.
Unless you have been diligently keeping yourself updated within these forums, it's easy to understand how you might miss a LOT of information. You might want to check th modding forums. One Grinner said he created TDM maps with multiple spawn points using the editor. They are not official content, as he did it on his own time. My point is that supposedly, with the editor, modders will be able to create unique MP gametypes. Not just maps or mods, but different MP modes. Another Grinner commented that something like escorting a convoy would be possible. Some of the other possibilities with the editor may be multiple objectives that can be completed in ANY order, and your own unique SP campaign. If any of this is true, it is very exciting.

I can't say that I have been diligently checking these forums, I'm sure I have missed alot. Seeing the modding possibilities is good to hear. But what about the other things I mentioned? Anyone have any feedback on some of the other stuff I mentioned in it's current state? A good gaming buddy of mine is buying it in a couple of weeks so I suspect I will get plenty of info from him as well, different opinions is always good though.

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btw i believe mitchell is not returning next time round.... think the end of the game shows that and it might be the return of non hero GR in the future, unless ramirez is going to replace mitchell.....

Better make that Henry Ramirez. Along with Jacobs, Buzz, Stone and the rest of the first Ghosts so they can bring Ghost Recon with them. Not Adwanced Warfighter.

:thumbsup: Thats all I want. Till then UBI isn't getting any of my $. I did sway for GR:AW (mistake) but not GR:AW 2. Farcry was the last UBI game I bought (which had great draw distance, but...) and I cant remember the one before that, something for the XBOX probably. Until they make a game I WANT not LIKE, they can make whatever they want, I just wont be giving up my $ for it. Sorry GRIN

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