What is GRAW2 really

[viiiper]

One competition for all, why is it so hard?

The obvious, time differences and ping...

PING:

You got to be joking, Morphingjar from "TEAMHOT" said there is no lag effect, ping is no problem please refresh your memory, he knows.

http://www.ghostrecon.net/forums/index.php...st&p=481391

TIME DIFFERENCE

At the BDA we play matches with Europe/ USA & Australia, with no problems. if you want details, we would gladly share .

These are not reasons, more like

[ROCO*AFZ*]

Time difference is the big thing as peace said (about laddering global)

It is very hard to schedule a match unless your clan has a european side.

Ping isn't bad in the UK and europe for me. Usually around 100-175.

But asia... arrgh.

Your clan has players from all parts... but you know... i have never seen you guys match? Never saw you match in GR1, GRAW1... and now GRAW2 so far. Will you this round? Try matching globally with a team that have families and work and such and are all in North America.

PGL i think was global. Only one i know of.

Nice sarcasm btw. Over 250 and you will experience some lag. Push 400 and it's a lagarama.

For those that don't know

Here is teamwarfares ladder for NA

http://www.teamwarfare.com/viewscrimladder...W2+%2D+NA+Power

For EU is

http://www.teamwarfare.com/viewscrimladder...W2+%2D+EU+Power

Looks like GRAW2 on that ladder is more popular in NA

[viiiper]

Your clan has players from all parts... but you know... i have never seen you guys match? Never saw you match in GR1, GRAW1... and now GRAW2 so far. Will you this round? Try matching globally with a team that have families and work and such and are all in North America.

PGL i think was global. Only one i know of.

Nice sarcasm btw. Over 250 and you will experience some lag. Push 400 and it's a lagarama.

I hate people that shoot you down with a pack of and then walk away.

http://www.ghostrecon.net/forums/index.php...st&p=481391

BDA was only formed 2006 so GR1 was a bit early, but I did play in 2001-04 with predators. The BDA will match, but we were looking for a global ladder, one where all players are involved. But regardless, after the main patch (plus editor) is released, that is when we will ladder.

We have a team of forty, which will be split into squads. They will represent the BDA.

p.s. is a j/k

[sui317]

@ bs paladin

i see what you mean, but gr was on a proved R6 engine i believe and graw had to be on a new engine (other dev team..) so it could not provide from the trials and errors nor the familiarity.

and i guess that UBI wants GR to go towards a more quake like game

or unreal or what you got out there,

while here this community wants it to go the other way, more back to basics and sim like.

the dev teams of both console and pc have to listen to both to keep their job but in the end UBI is making the calls when they feel money might be lost.

look at it like this,

UBI pumps out two graw games in short time, while we all buy them and complain they still get our money,

GR might have been good gaming wise, but it did not pay the bills or their (ubi's) will, it has been running and still running for 6/7 years

and it is in the shop for 5 euros.

why settle for those 4 years of relatively cheap gaming income when you can have full profits ?

UBI is milking us and we go with the flow, or not as screatch...

but if we keep going with the flow, it might work in our favour with the dev team and development of our beloved series.

to ubi a long lasting game is counter productive modding undermines their income, cause we won't buy the new thing if we are still satisfied with the old.

as for grin not listening i would not say that, i don't know about 360 devs but i think there is a difference between our requests and complaints in sence of realistic and non realistic, and then the permission of UBI to fullfill those requests and wishes

[Lethal.Ambition]

Don't forget how GR had to undergo 4 (Was it 3?) patches before we were satisfied with it, and despite that there were many bugs.

I remember we had no binoculars, no damage model, and a bunch of other things. Hell, the mod tools was just 1, IGOR, and GRIN promises to give more.

[BS PALADIN]

@Sui317

I believe that we have to vote with our money if we really want see change. Not necessarily refusing to buy the next Ghost Recon game. More buying proper tactically games on whatever format we own. For example Ground Branch or [Operation Flashpoint: Dragon Rising]. That way UBi will see there is money in making the game more realistic and in keeping with the originals core gameplay mechanics. But if we keep buying the GRAW series then we will end up with GR 2142 : Cybersoldier.

And i do respect RSE ( serellan in particular ) and the GRIN guys for trying their best but the feedback seems rarley make it back into the game for whatever reason. At best we get token offerings like southpaw legacy being re-introduced.

But i believe there is a way to make a SPand MP game that fits in both the arcade nature that casual gamers like and the hardcore sim version that we all crave. I've posted the idea many times and CBA posting again unless soemone really wants to hear it. But my point is that it can be done. UBISOFT are just deciding not to.

[Lethal.Ambition]

GRIN wants to make their own thing too. I mean, they want to give us the closes GR experience, but they want to be original as well. I think they've done a good job.

[sui317]

GRIN wants to make their own thing too. I mean, they want to give us the closes GR experience, but they want to be original as well. I think they've done a good job.

that is why i bought the game and it is my support to them, rather than thinking i fill up ubi's pockets, though they decided to give us grin which is kind of a plus

[Brainman2k]

I was thinking about buying GRAW 2 for the PC as i was massively dissappointed by the console version. But from the sounds of it GRAW 2 on the PC is as bad as the console version. I hate FKING linear maps. The whole premise of GR was open terrrain where you decided how to acheive the objectives. GR is not about on the rails action rides. Its about planning, patience and tactics. If you wanted stealth then you played stealthy, if you wanted action then you went in the front door. Personally i liked to mix it up and thats was the beauty of Ghost Recon. You made the decisions.

Unless a miracle happens Ghost Recon is dead. UBI should be rounded up and shot for bastardising the Ghost Recon and Rainbow Six franchises.

who said, that you can only take one route to achieve your goals? you often even got 2 different insertion points! from there you can either sneak in through the back door or go for a full assault. take the first mission or "get me rosen" as examples. in mission 1 you can either sneak around the mountain-cliff and pop up even behind the soldiers guarding the road or you can just walk up the hill and take them out in a full assault. in "get me rosen" (i believe its mission 7) you can either walk through the front door and shoot your way through the hacienda or you can sneak to the back entrance and perform a sneaky go-in-get-the-job-done-and-sneak-out job.

so tell me where [GR] had more options concerning the approach?

[Lightspeed]

just quickly for those who are moaning - have a go at the map editor - the objects are ###### amazing and will allow for many diverse maps to be produced.

having said that - its extremely time consuming - I am working on a modern Vilnius-style map and with the palette available to me, its going to look amazing but is also gonna take me quite a long time (not to mention scripting missions for it)

had GRIN spent another year working on it you would have been ###### off at them for taking so long. they cant win it seems.

its easy to say GR was this and that - the fact is GR wasnt perfect either, and has no where near the depth that this game has in terms of environment and interactivity.

as an example cos ive already mentioned it - vilnius was a great map in its time. the map that i'm building now is going to make it look like a piece of crap, and once i have scripted a mission or two into it, you will finally understand how GR this game already is - and that it's your attitude thats the problem..not the game.

what would you produce for $50US? 1 hours work? maybe 2?

well there are already thousands and thousands of hours put into this game...open the editor - make one half decent map and you'll know exactly what i mean.

you Papa - how long did u play the game for b4 you got bored? 10 hours? 20? 30? @ $50US - looks like good value to me. and you'll still be playing when the new missions, mods, and maps hit the shelves.

SO I THINK ITS TIME TO PUT SOME VIAGARA DROPS INTO YOUR EYES AND TAKE A LONG HARD LOOK AT YOURSELVES.

[Sairus]

I would say that the whole Tom Clancy's series got screwed. (Well except for SC) Ghost Recon isn't GR anymore. Just some hollywood-commando bull. Rainbow Six isn't R6 anymore. Also became a shoot-em up. Why the developers don't look back in time and see the things we really liked these games for? Shame.

[Peace]

PING:

You got to be joking, Morphingjar from "TEAMHOT" said there is no lag effect, ping is no problem please refresh your memory, he knows.

Yea yea I know two you are best friends...

Pings over >300 which is still common over certain continents start cause all sorts of funny issues in the game, warping etc, and e.g. overly miscredit the stationary player (server's got his position) compared with beeing on the move...

I haven't played GRAW 2 yet, so I wouldn't know if it is the same as in GR1 and GRAW 1.

TIME DIFFERENCE

At the BDA we play matches with Europe/ USA & Australia, with no problems. if you want details, we would gladly share .

These are not reasons, more like

Well, viiper. I'm happy you in BDA are able to pull players together at odd hours (for some) for internal scrimmages, but in the real world, with wife, kids, and work there is simply no room for regular matching outside the primetime approx. 21.30-00.00.

Also, smaller sized teams, which are the most common on ladders, are totally depending on everybody's availability. They don't have 40+ more or less active members to choose from. Matching is unfortunately normally prime time or none at all.

[BS PALADIN]

@ Brainman2k

Let me think, on battlefield ( mission 8 ) on [GR] i could go about 6 different ways because the map was completely open.

[Sleepdoc-iBeta]

I think Papa's apparent Schizophrenia with respect to his feelings on the game are actually within normal limits. He simply saw the potential and enjoped the potential, but found it repetative to soon for his tastes. Probably becuase he banged through it qiuckly rather than simply playing one mission a night like some of us do.

If anything, Papa does not really suffer from Schizophrenia. He suffers from impatience. A pretty normal human thing, but his rises to the surface pretty qiuck.

When GRAW1 came out, i played its coop and single player for about 1 month. then I put it away for about 3 months. Then i played some TDM. Then 1.35 came out and i played coop and and all the other stuff for about 8 months without a break. and in great part becuase the map modders finally hit the ground running.

Now i know all the arguments about "Games should be full of content when they come out" etc etc. OK. Sure. Whatever. But many aren't. and most of them suck at their core. GRAW2 **DOES NOT SUCK** at its core. Its core is solid, and the patches and the modders stand to make4 it a classic.

I'm gonna bet that Papa will see that again when the modders give him some creative content.....

Take a breath folks. Heck. take a break. Play something else for 30 days if you have already chewed through GRAW2 content. Let's give GRiN a chance to get their editor and the next patch or 2 out.

And BTW. I'm still loving it. I'm only finding time for about one mission per night or so. So I'm still seeing new things. and the randomization business is present enough to keep me confused and surprised and cautious when i do hit a map twice.

Edited July 31, 2007 by Sleepdoc

[kretzj]

@ Brainman2k

Let me think, on battlefield ( mission 8 ) on [GR] i could go about 6 different ways because the map was completely open.

Agreed. GRAW2 allows for multiple insertion points but from there it's all scripted... walk this way or that way, but no, you can't circle completely around the map to come in at a flank position... walk this way or that way and pay no attention to the wonderful scenery surrounding you.

I lost track how many times I wanted my sniper to enter a building and look for a high spot to cover me in the city missions... sorry, the buildings are "locked up". I remember ONE building with a staircase that you could go up on the roof but that was it.

Linear... scripted... and GRiN admitted it (I think Wolfsong admitted it was related to how much time it would have taken to QA multiple "paths" to the objective... So right there (and no offense meant to GRiN or Wolfsong here...) Ubi chose speed to market over quality of gameplay. Most of us had already made our peace with three delays (and no official word from Ubi)... would it have meant they released in Sept instead of July? Trust me, for a more open game environment (with fewer CTD bugs) I would have waited (again).

Another day goes by without the editor being released. I see the dark hand of Ubi in that decision... if the tools were good enough for GRiN to use they should have been close to good enough for release. If we don't see them in the next 2 weeks I'll start taking bets we never see them. If we can make our own content then we won't be around to spend $50 every 12-15 months on the next GR release.

Ubi learned a valuable lesson from [GR]... never release a product so great that your customer base is empowered enough to refuse buying your next great thing.

-jk

callsign threepoint

PS: My opinions of GRAW2 have pretty much followed Papa's as well... my first few hours I was in love with the game but when you finish SP in about 5 hours and you know there's no content to download... what now? My opinion of GRAW2 has definitely been "up and down like an elevator"... but I don't see much reason for a return bounce upward in the short term. Very little "replay value" here without new content.

[=warcloud=]

Why should the modding community be responsible for making the game good. Should we not get a good - great game already and then the modding community expand on it. Are we that starved of a quality Ghost Recon title that we make excuses for GRIN/UBI by saying at least its got a solid foundation that we can mod into a great game.

You're right mate, the game should be good from the start, it should not be up to the modders to make it better.

Don't waste your money on graw2 pc, i paid £30 for this pos.

[Lethal.Ambition]

Why should the modding community be responsible for making the game good. Should we not get a good - great game already and then the modding community expand on it. Are we that starved of a quality Ghost Recon title that we make excuses for GRIN/UBI by saying at least its got a solid foundation that we can mod into a great game.

You're right mate, the game should be good from the start, it should not be up to the modders to make it better.

Don't waste your money on graw2 pc, i paid £30 for this pos.

It IS good from the start. What do you want?

Anyways... I want to wait for a patch or two before I make my final decision on it.

[Sleepdoc-iBeta]

Don't waste your money on graw2 pc, i paid £30 for this pos.

[kretzj]

Why should the modding community be responsible for making the game good. Should we not get a good - great game already and then the modding community expand on it. Are we that starved of a quality Ghost Recon title that we make excuses for GRIN/UBI by saying at least its got a solid foundation that we can mod into a great game.

You're right mate, the game should be good from the start, it should not be up to the modders to make it better.

Don't waste your money on graw2 pc, i paid £30 for this pos.

It IS good from the start. What do you want?

Anyways... I want to wait for a patch or two before I make my final decision on it.

I want more than 5 hours worth of play time from a game that cost me over $50 including tax.

I am the first to say that today's games are vastly different than our beloved [GR]... the time it takes to make maps today has got to be incrementally longer than from 2000-2001... the level of detail, textures, etc. I accept that as fact so I'm not bitching about the cost per se. What I am complaining about is the value I get for my money. It took me a LOT longer than five hours to complete the [GR] SP campaign... the "fun value per dollar" ratio was higher for [GR] than GRAW 2 (and most certainly GRAW 1 since I didn't bother to even finish it).

Why do I sense a future announcement of add-on missions for a $29.00 price point, coupled with the "we've chosen to withhold the modding tools" announcement soon thereafter. And no, I don't ALWAYS wear a tin-foil beanie hat...

-jk

callsign threepoint

[Alderei]

Hey folks. I'm a long time [GR] player, and recently bought an Xbox 360 specifically to play GRAW and GRAW2. My PC was too out-of-date for gaming and I had a friend already playing the 360 versions so it seemed like a decent decision.

But let me back up even further. The whole reason I ever played [GR] in the first place was because my Wife bought it for me when she couldn't find Rogue Spear at the store. Yes, I was buying out-of-date games then too....

Rogue Spear was by far the best sequel to a game since Mega Man 2. It was phenomenal. The reason I'm sure we all loved that game was for the realism. I enjoyed planning my mission and executing it. I enjoyed Beta flashing banging a room from one side while me and Alpha mopped up from the other door.

At first I hated [GR] because I simply couldn't do it. The RECON aspect made it so tough and looking back, way to real for me. But I got used to it, and it soon became the best game I'd ever played. I still like saying Papashvilhi just because it sounds sweet.

GR was wide open, with zero linearity, and it rewarded flanking maneuvers. I enjoyed aspects of the expansion packs, but in some ways, the GRIT expansion made the enemy too good. Still, laying down support fire with my SAW at the jungle island airfield while my other team assaulted from the other end of the runway....classic.

GRAW is linear. The story well, its okay. The Red Storm Rising story from [GR] made sense for a unit like the Ghosts...an advanced tactical arm capable of clearing the path for the army to win major strategic victories, or simply getting in with a lot of firepower (like the paratroopers of old) to a place the army can't reach. GRAW1 made a little sense, as a first response team ended up stuck and reacting to the battle around them. GRAW2, well, you have to wonder why command would get the Ghosts involved in some of those missions at all.

[GR] by the way, was not made great by the modders. It was great. The modders made the game last longer by introducing fresh takes and in some cases (like Frostbite) whole new expansions, but in the end, no offense modders, their stories were not as good as the published stories, and their game play (like Frostbite) was closer to Rainbow than Recon anyway.

I loved the mods for keeping the game current, but really, it was just whetting my appetite for the time when the Dev's brought forth the amazing sequel that us PC users never got.

GRAW 1 and GRAW 2 are one game (much like [GR], DS, and IT) and they aren't the game we wanted. Better than what they've done to Rainbow, which is nothing more than an Arcade Shooter now, but either the next Recon game is an improvement or its the death of the franchise.

Sorry for the long post...

[ROCO*AFZ*]

Why should the modding community be responsible for making the game good. Should we not get a good - great game already and then the modding community expand on it. Are we that starved of a quality Ghost Recon title that we make excuses for GRIN/UBI by saying at least its got a solid foundation that we can mod into a great game.

You're right mate, the game should be good from the start, it should not be up to the modders to make it better.

Don't waste your money on graw2 pc, i paid £30 for this pos.

It IS good from the start. What do you want?

Anyways... I want to wait for a patch or two before I make my final decision on it.

I want more than 5 hours worth of play time from a game that cost me over $50 including tax.

I am the first to say that today's games are vastly different than our beloved [GR]... the time it takes to make maps today has got to be incrementally longer than from 2000-2001... the level of detail, textures, etc. I accept that as fact so I'm not bitching about the cost per se. What I am complaining about is the value I get for my money. It took me a LOT longer than five hours to complete the [GR] SP campaign... the "fun value per dollar" ratio was higher for [GR] than GRAW 2 (and most certainly GRAW 1 since I didn't bother to even finish it).

Why do I sense a future announcement of add-on missions for a $29.00 price point, coupled with the "we've chosen to withhold the modding tools" announcement soon thereafter. And no, I don't ALWAYS wear a tin-foil beanie hat...

-jk

callsign threepoint

i never played the campaign in GR1 nor anything co-op but a few defend missions our squad made called AFZFORCE. But i got Countless TDM (i'm saying probably over 1000 hours out of it).

With GRAW1 i would play 2 hours per night at least 4 nights of the week and about 2 months of matching (probably about 10 matches) and a few custom co-op maps

With GRAW2 i am averaging around 5 hours a night, everynight (God i don't sleep now...Thanks GRIN) Playing TDM and Loving it.

With that being said, I would say I got my moneys worth out of each and alread have got my Money's worth out of GRAW2 without even playing the campaign or single player

I guess some of us know how to make to most of any game

[Sleepdoc-iBeta]

I guess some of us know how to make to most of any game

[eyn093]

Nice post

[Pulaski]

You my friends need to get into laddering. it will be about intesity and the hunt will be on.

The problem is GRAW 2, much like GRAW 1, it's not competition ready. Unlike GR, which was great for competition play. Without demo's and a working anti-cheat match play will be about the same as GRAW1 , which was very poor. Back in the day GR had about 300 matches(adding different ladders together) a day, you'll be lucky to see that in the life time of matches for both GRAW 1 and GRAW 2 added together.

Edited July 31, 2007 by Pulaski

[viiiper]

You my friends need to get into laddering. it will be about intesity and the hunt will be on.

The problem is GRAW 2, much like GRAW 1, is not competition ready. Unlike GR, which was great for competition play. Without demo's and a working anti-cheat match play will be about the same as GRAW1 , which was very poor. Back in the day GR had about 300 matches(adding different ladders together) a day, you'll be lucky to see that in the life time of matches for both GRAW 1 and GRAW 2 added together.

That's exactly what I think too, NOT COMPETITION READY, out of the box