m99 Awareness week

[eyn093]

Add scope sway to the M99

Add 30m arming to GL's

That sums it up.

[Tensim]

Lead or No. 2? Because, and this is just my HUMBLE opinion here.....but I would think lead pencils can't be used. They're too easy to reload and will give an unfair advantage.

I would leave that at the discretion of the admin server. However, I would certainly take a dim view of the irresponsible use of pencils of the propelling variety.

Edited July 28, 2007 by Tensim

[ruggbutt]

Add scope sway to the M99

Add 30m arming to GL's

It's really hard to disagree with you when you make perfect sense. Where are you WK?

[GRIN_Wolfsong]

The same goes with the GL. 30m arming distance is not too much to expect since that's how the real deal works and that's how GRIN had it in GRAW1.

It does have an arming distance, or rather arming timer. Maybe it's too short. But you can always kill yourself no matter which arming distance it is. Just find the right distance from a wall and when it comes back... "BOOM".

[Blue UK]

Nothing should be changed with the sniper ...IF ITS TRUE AS IN REAL LIFE THEN LEAVE IT ALONE !! there is always some noob or individual that whinges because he gets shot or naded .. A better thing GRIN could to add to the game would be the option in dedicated mode to select what weapons are used in multiplayer !!

[GHOST_Sup]

Nothing should be changed with the sniper ...IF ITS TRUE AS IN REAL LIFE THEN LEAVE IT ALONE !! there is always some noob or individual that whinges because he gets shot or naded .. A better thing GRIN could to add to the game would be the option in dedicated mode to select what weapons are used in multiplayer !!

No "whinges" from me. I agree about the kit selection option though.

[WhiteKnight77]

Rugg, while I am mainly a Coop player, I have been here long enough to know that someone will always complain and moan about a weapon. In GR it was the OICW with grenade launcher and the resulting 'nade spam. Now with GRAW2 it is the M99.

If people didn't have something to complain about, they wouldn't be happy. As Serellan once said, one's perfect game would only sell one copy.

Yes, one should not be able to run fast with a 20+ pound rifle then aim fast and whip off a shot. There should be a bit of sway while trying to use it in the standing position, but if GRIN forgot to detail it, well, it may be patchable, if not, people will need to live with it like they did the OICW in GR.

My biggest peeve is when people try to compare how weapons work in one game and gripe because they work a bit differently in games featured on this forum (GR) and on the even the offical game forums at Ubi. If you want to talk about any game other than GR/GRAW, go to those forums. You want apples and oranges, others talking about how BF2 has this feature or that feature while GRAW/GRAW2 doesn't can't be a better example.

As I said earlier, if someone wants to restrict sniper rifles from their server, go ahead. If no one joins, well enjoy your empty sniperless server. If people join it, more power to you.

[Tinker]

Did somebody mention a fight between the TvT gang and the Co-Op gang? I`m in on the Co-Op Team, if 1 lifts off.

Tinker

[AA_sKILLsEw]

What are we even talking about anymore. There is a problem with the weapon. I haven't seen a meaningful post since page 12.

Morphing said it, and it doesn't get any simpler.

Assault Rifles: Headshot- KILL

3 to the body- KILL

(Now heres where it gets tricky)

Sniper Rifles: Headshot- KILL

m14 and MSG90: 2 to the body- KILL

M99: 1 the head, chest, elbow or pinky toe -KILL

______________________________________

Yes, in reality anyone struck anywhere by the m99 would probably be rendered combat ineffective.

Its the ability to quickscope and run n gun that makes the difference.

It seems to me, while developing the game, they got the reaction time and scope time stats of the m14 and the m99 mixed. If they were to trade those stats, this thread wouldn't exist. And no one would need any cheese. Cause the m14 wouldn't be a 1 hit wonder.

It needs nerfed and there shouldn't be any argument about that, the only reason to argue that.

Is explained in my Signature.

Edited July 28, 2007 by AA_sKILLsEw

[|PoRn|-EcKs-]

First off, anytime there is a discussion about something people think it is all whining. Wrong!

No where, i dont think, in the 14 pages in here does it say anyone wants the weapons removed. "We" just want them fixed. Just because we dont like how they work doesnt mean we are crying.

M99 is way to powerful, end of story

fix = scope sway or slower to shoulder

GL's can be fired at the feet or a few feet away for insta-kills

fix = 30m arming added to weapon

I forsure am not crying because ive supposedly been "owned" by these weapons, that is incorrect and far from the point. I personally do not like the way they work because "most" use them as the easy kill, way to pad my stats, weapon in pub servers. Weather or not these are used in ladders and leagues are beside the point.

Again - Just because the developer had one intent sure as hell doesnt mean the community will not find a loop hole and exploit it. These weapons have now been exploited and all we are doing is asking for them to be adjusted.

NO ONE IS ASKING FOR THEM TO BE REMOVED!!! We just dont like the fact that you can be running full sprint, stop, shoulder and hit the corner of my jacket for a insta-kill in about a second flat.

Edited July 28, 2007 by |PoRn|-EcKs-

[Lnwlf]

Rugg, while I am mainly a Coop player, I have been here long enough to know that someone will always complain and moan about a weapon. In GR it was the OICW with grenade launcher and the resulting 'nade spam. Now with GRAW2 it is the M99.

If people didn't have something to complain about, they wouldn't be happy. As Serellan once said, one's perfect game would only sell one copy.

Yes, one should not be able to run fast with a 20+ pound rifle then aim fast and whip off a shot. There should be a bit of sway while trying to use it in the standing position, but if GRIN forgot to detail it, well, it may be patchable, if not, people will need to live with it like they did the OICW in GR.

My biggest peeve is when people try to compare how weapons work in one game and gripe because they work a bit differently in games featured on this forum (GR) and on the even the offical game forums at Ubi. If you want to talk about any game other than GR/GRAW, go to those forums. You want apples and oranges, others talking about how BF2 has this feature or that feature while GRAW/GRAW2 doesn't can't be a better example.

As I said earlier, if someone wants to restrict sniper rifles from their server, go ahead. If no one joins, well enjoy your empty sniperless server. If people join it, more power to you.

ok co-op noob, before you go back to owning bots, listen up. No one has whined in any way about getting shot by the m99. It was pointed out that there is an imbalance. I would happily run around a server quick scoping kids all day long.. In the end, for fairness in the game, it would be better for everyone if there was an adjustment made to alter its current capabilities. Comp players are usually the first ones to find exploits in any game as usually, we try to find them to have an advantage in competition play. We point them out to create a more level playing field for everyone. Morph went 26-3 or roughly an 8-1 KDR quick scoping the sniper rifle. generally speaking any of the people on my team are scoring headshots with whatever weapon we play with as we have a tremendous amount of play time in competition across many different games and can actually aim in the first place. Counter sniping some geek on a hill using an assault rifle is not that hard, but for the sake of the rest of the community it would serve everyone to make changes to the M99. I'll bet money the majority of you people posting were not even aware of the fact you could do this with the m99 before it was pointed out to you. All patches make minor changes to bugs and certain weapons if they are overpowered. that is the nature of videogame developers, even the playing field so the pubbers don't cry and keep playing the game and telling their friends how great it is so they will buy it also. We are doing you a favor by pointing this out i couldn't care less if they change it or not. you don't have to worry about getting quick scoped by the bots so you shouldn't care anyways.. ggs.

Edited July 28, 2007 by Lnwlf

[Blue UK]

M99 is way to powerful, end of story

fix = scope sway or slower to shoulder

If a 50 cal hit you in real life it would take you appart wherever it hit you .. its not to powerful .. The gun is as it is meant to be .... it shouldnt be tampered with to make it unrealistic or too slow its slow enough reloading as it is !

There is no point in making a game and then adjusting the weapons to suit poeple who cant adjust .. if you get shot by a sniper adjust to the game .. its simple enough to go a different way and avoid him .. If a sniper sees you in real life your dead .. same in game if he sees you and thats how it should be .... same goes for nades etc .. If there are no respawns then the game takes on a far better feel .. no more chickens running around like mad .. This game played in match conditions with no respawns is SWEET !!

Like i mentioned in a previous post .. perhaps the next patch by GRIN could include the option for selecting what weapons are and are not included in the multiplayer games ....

Edited July 28, 2007 by Blue UK

[WhiteKnight77]

Again - Just because the developer had one intent sure as hell doesnt mean the community will not find a loop hole and exploit it. These weapons have now been exploited and all we are doing is asking for them to be adjusted.

This is an inherent problem with humans. TDM is competitive by nature with everyone wanting the most kills and the best ranking and in and of itself lends people to do whatever it takes to be number one, it does not make a difference between a public server or a clan server. Until people start to realize that there is more to a game than just killing the opposite team (even though that is the point of TDM), will people start using weapons properly.

I would like to see a game that does away with TDM (GRAW tried to do that) and the whole notion of trying to kill the entire opposing team and just offer objectives. It could be similar to HH in that even if you kill all of your opponents, it does not guarentee a win. Along with that, give everyone one weapon only, say an M16, no grenades, no smoke and no pistols. Make the game a challange.

As I said before, there is always one weapon that people dislike and the game survives and is played for years. The same will happen with GRAW2 if you get over the hangup of one weapon being, in your eyes, overpowering. Learn how to counter it and it will not be a problem.

[Nutlink]

Most of you appear to favor games other than GR as you are wanting balanced weapons, well get a grip, real life does not have balanced weapons. Some work a whole lot better than others. Yeah, some parts of a particular weapon my be a bit unrealistic, but the aftermath of using said weapon is still the same.

Do you think you would still think this way if the M32 was left in in the multiplayer?

[WhiteKnight77]

Rugg, while I am mainly a Coop player, I have been here long enough to know that someone will always complain and moan about a weapon. In GR it was the OICW with grenade launcher and the resulting 'nade spam. Now with GRAW2 it is the M99.

If people didn't have something to complain about, they wouldn't be happy. As Serellan once said, one's perfect game would only sell one copy.

Yes, one should not be able to run fast with a 20+ pound rifle then aim fast and whip off a shot. There should be a bit of sway while trying to use it in the standing position, but if GRIN forgot to detail it, well, it may be patchable, if not, people will need to live with it like they did the OICW in GR.

My biggest peeve is when people try to compare how weapons work in one game and gripe because they work a bit differently in games featured on this forum (GR) and on the even the offical game forums at Ubi. If you want to talk about any game other than GR/GRAW, go to those forums. You want apples and oranges, others talking about how BF2 has this feature or that feature while GRAW/GRAW2 doesn't can't be a better example.

As I said earlier, if someone wants to restrict sniper rifles from their server, go ahead. If no one joins, well enjoy your empty sniperless server. If people join it, more power to you.

ok co-op noob, before you go back to owning bots, listen up. No one has whined in any way about getting shot by the m99. It was pointed out that there is an imbalance. I would happily run around a server quick scoping kids all day long.. In the end, for fairness in the game, it would be better for everyone if there was an adjustment made to alter its current capabilities. Comp players are usually the first ones to find exploits in any game as usually, we try to find them to have an advantage in competition play. We point them out to create a more level playing field for everyone. Morph went 26-3 or roughly an 8-1 KDR quick scoping the sniper rifle. generally speaking any of the people on my team are scoring headshots with whatever weapon we play with as we have a tremendous amount of play time in competition across many different games and can actually aim in the first place. Counter sniping some geek on a hill using an assault rifle is not that hard, but for the sake of the rest of the community it would serve everyone to make changes to the M99. I'll bet money the majority of you people posting were not even aware of the fact you could do this with the m99 before it was pointed out to you. All patches make minor changes to bugs and certain weapons if they are overpowered. that is the nature of videogame developers, even the playing field so the pubbers don't cry and keep playing the game and telling their friends how great it is so they will buy it also. We are doing you a favor by pointing this out i couldn't care less if they change it or not. you don't have to worry about getting quick scoped by the bots so you shouldn't care anyways.. ggs.

Do you want to retract any part of your statement? I refer to the part of getting personal and name calling (Rugg, you should know better by now too). Whether or not I play Coop is irrelevent as if one really knew me, they would know I do play TvT type games other than just TDM. As I have stated elsewhere, HH was a favorite game type on my server. 3 of us usually owned said game type. We also played alot of TvT Timebomb (the specialist had to disarm a randomly placed bomb to win) and some SAR. Sure I prefer Coop but that does not mean I don't know how to play GR. I happen to enjoy playing a game that has an objective other than just killing all of the opposition.

You also reiterate my previous point when you say that you are looking for the competitive advantage. The M99 gives you that or gives the opposite team that advantage so maybe you can't own them. Now the M99 may be used in ways not intended by the devs, but as you say, you try to exploit the weaknesses or strengths of a particular feature. Why not just remove all but one weapon from the game and play with that? Make it a level playing field and see if you really are better.

[Lnwlf]

Rugg, while I am mainly a Coop player, I have been here long enough to know that someone will always complain and moan about a weapon. In GR it was the OICW with grenade launcher and the resulting 'nade spam. Now with GRAW2 it is the M99.

If people didn't have something to complain about, they wouldn't be happy. As Serellan once said, one's perfect game would only sell one copy.

Yes, one should not be able to run fast with a 20+ pound rifle then aim fast and whip off a shot. There should be a bit of sway while trying to use it in the standing position, but if GRIN forgot to detail it, well, it may be patchable, if not, people will need to live with it like they did the OICW in GR.

My biggest peeve is when people try to compare how weapons work in one game and gripe because they work a bit differently in games featured on this forum (GR) and on the even the offical game forums at Ubi. If you want to talk about any game other than GR/GRAW, go to those forums. You want apples and oranges, others talking about how BF2 has this feature or that feature while GRAW/GRAW2 doesn't can't be a better example.

As I said earlier, if someone wants to restrict sniper rifles from their server, go ahead. If no one joins, well enjoy your empty sniperless server. If people join it, more power to you.

ok co-op noob, before you go back to owning bots, listen up. No one has whined in any way about getting shot by the m99. It was pointed out that there is an imbalance. I would happily run around a server quick scoping kids all day long.. In the end, for fairness in the game, it would be better for everyone if there was an adjustment made to alter its current capabilities. Comp players are usually the first ones to find exploits in any game as usually, we try to find them to have an advantage in competition play. We point them out to create a more level playing field for everyone. Morph went 26-3 or roughly an 8-1 KDR quick scoping the sniper rifle. generally speaking any of the people on my team are scoring headshots with whatever weapon we play with as we have a tremendous amount of play time in competition across many different games and can actually aim in the first place. Counter sniping some geek on a hill using an assault rifle is not that hard, but for the sake of the rest of the community it would serve everyone to make changes to the M99. I'll bet money the majority of you people posting were not even aware of the fact you could do this with the m99 before it was pointed out to you. All patches make minor changes to bugs and certain weapons if they are overpowered. that is the nature of videogame developers, even the playing field so the pubbers don't cry and keep playing the game and telling their friends how great it is so they will buy it also. We are doing you a favor by pointing this out i couldn't care less if they change it or not. you don't have to worry about getting quick scoped by the bots so you shouldn't care anyways.. ggs.

Do you want to retract any part of your statement? I refer to the part of getting personal and name calling (Rugg, you should know better by now too). Whether or not I play Coop is irrelevent as if one really knew me, they would know I do play TvT type games other than just TDM. As I have stated elsewhere, HH was a favorite game type on my server. 3 of us usually owned said game type. We also played alot of TvT Timebomb (the specialist had to disarm a randomly placed bomb to win) and some SAR. Sure I prefer Coop but that does not mean I don't know how to play GR. I happen to enjoy playing a game that has an objective other than just killing all of the opposition.

You also reiterate my previous point when you say that you are looking for the competitive advantage. The M99 gives you that or gives the opposite team that advantage so maybe you can't own them. Now the M99 may be used in ways not intended by the devs, but as you say, you try to exploit the weaknesses or strengths of a particular feature. Why not just remove all but one weapon from the game and play with that? Make it a level playing field and see if you really are better.

well not to argue with an admin, but you also got personal when calling people trying to help the community whiners. So i feel we are somewhat even. Additionally, I did not reiterate your point when I stated that we seek a competitive advantage, it is by way of figuring small exploits that can give you that advantage. Major imbalances are something totally different. For example: we played comp for 2142. in 2142 there were several exploits, stat padding methods that we found that were patched out because it just made the game bad. That is one example of many, there were so many patches to bf2 because the pubbers would get raped by exploits that many people knew, c4 tossing dolphin diving nade launcher, etc and all of these were eventually changed and low and behold the comp gamers found the new exploits created from the newest patch. All of the suggestions re the M99 were for the benefit of the community and the integrity of the game to make it fun for people who are not as serious as some of the teams that play the game also. As im sure if all everyone did was run around and roll people with the m99 all day every day the game would get old fast. We participated in the closed beta and were flown out by Splash Damage for a media day for the ETQW specifically for the purpose of testing the game and giving feedback from a competition perspective on the gameplay. We chose this as our choice for a game to compete in as there are excellent aspects about this game that are exciting and make for good competition. We are trying to do our part to assist the devs in creating a level playing field with proper weapon balances as it will ensure that people keep buying and playing the game. which is what we all want.

Edited July 29, 2007 by Lnwlf

[Guest]

Lead or No. 2? Because, and this is just my HUMBLE opinion here.....but I would think lead pencils can't be used. They're too easy to reload and will give an unfair advantage.

You missed a valid point aswell, they are far too yellow so no camo in the jungle, especially "in_the_cut" map.

no no no no NO! You missed MY point! Pencils are just too easy! And don't get me started on the eraser feature If anyone wants to join me in a writing contest, find me in the server. No lead, ballpoint only...all skillz....boiiii!

[WhiteKnight77]

I never called anyone whiners. I did state that there is always something that people are going to complain about and that is true.

If you want to play a BF2142 type game, go play that. If you want to restrict snipers on your server, go ahead. Just remember that if your server is empty, then you will know the reason why.

This is an inherent problem with humans. TDM is competitive by nature with everyone wanting the most kills and the best ranking and in and of itself lends people to do whatever it takes to be number one,,,

Comp players are usually the first ones to find exploits in any game as usually, we try to find them to have an advantage in competition play.

Your statement does bear out what I said and that you will do what ever it takes to be number one. By using an exploit to your advantage, you are playing as not intended by the devs. No different than the guy with an M99 using it while run and gunning.

[|PoRn|-EcKs-]

M99 is way to powerful, end of story

fix = scope sway or slower to shoulder

If a 50 cal hit you in real life it would take you appart wherever it hit you .. its not to powerful .. The gun is as it is meant to be .... it shouldnt be tampered with to make it unrealistic or too slow its slow enough reloading as it is !

Next time you quote me, try to come back with something with merit and that is logical. I promise you that if you shot my finger with .50 round at any range I would not die. Same with if you shot me in the foot with it, it would surely blow my foot off and probably most of my leg below my knee but i still wouldnt die.

[AA_sKILLsEw]

I don't mean to be disrespectful, obviously cause you're an admin.

But if you don't play multiplayer, then you have absolutely no grasp of this situation.

GL & m99, (especially both put together) will ruin your day.

[PersianImmortal]

I know I said I'd stay out of the thread, but I can't resist making another comment (call me weak)

The M99 aside, I am particularly surprised at just how immaturely some of the community members here are treating this issue. They have a "like it or lump it" attitude, and use all the usual insults like "whiners" to describe people who are actually doing anything but whining and are making constructive suggestions to make a good game even better for every type of player, not just for one small subset of players who consider themselves the "chosen ones". Here are some things to consider:

1) Noone here who is discussing the M99 or GL has said they should be removed from the game, period. So people who keep making jokes and comments about this are just being facetious, or plain can't read.

2) MorphingJar has gone to the trouble of posting actual video evidence which shows exactly how unrealistic and unbalanced this "sniper rifle" is when it is used as a run-and-gun weapon, something which you guys say is not what GRAW 2 is about. The only comeback people seem to have is either "that it's part of the game, get used to it", or "that's not how it's supposed to be used". As has already been explained, many online games have had exploits and imbalances which have been patched out, why should GRAW 2 be any different?

3) All sorts of other reasons come out about how we can used mods or play on special servers if we're not happy with the situation. Well guess what, many of us aren't part of a clan, some of us live in parts of the world where our choice of servers is limited to only a handful during our play hours, and why should we rely on a mod to fix something the developers should fix as part of the normal game development/patching process?

I was playing on a server with AA_SkillsEw last night, and he can attest to the fact that even when he and others were using the M99, I did not complain once, and I adjusted my tactics to beat most people who were using it and get a good score, or achieve the objective. AA_SkillsEw himself is also an excellent player, and MorphingJar is obviously a very skilled player. So none of us are whining because we're getting "owned" by the M99, or because we can't use it ourselves or adjust to it.

The suggestions being made to intelligently modify the M99 are being made to make the game enjoyable for everyone, not a handful of hardcore players. If you really want GRIN to succeed in getting this game to be popular, and at the same time have GRAW 2 be something other than just a cross between a genuine tac shooter and a deathmatch game, then game balance tweaks are necessary.

Lastly, it makes no sense that people here like Viiiper who keep saying they use the M99 as its intended (i.e. to sniper prone from a distance) would oppose changes which only affect people who are using it as a run-and-gun instagib weapon. If you want to use the M99 as a sniper gun, adding scope sway and slightly slower scope up time will have no impact on the genuinely skillful players. Same with adding minimum distance to GL. Both are changes to prevent noob and exploitative behavior, while leaving these weapons just as powerful for their intended purpose.

[Easton]

I know I said I'd stay out of the thread, but I can't resist making another comment (call me weak)

The M99 aside, I am particularly surprised at just how immaturely some of the community members here are treating this issue. They have a "like it or lump it" attitude, and use all the usual insults like "whiners" to describe people who are actually doing anything but whining and are making constructive suggestions to make a good game even better for every type of player, not just for one small subset of players who consider themselves the "chosen ones". Here are some things to consider:

1) Noone here who is discussing the M99 or GL has said they should be removed from the game, period. So people who keep making jokes and comments about this are just being facetious, or plain can't read.

2) MorphingJar has gone to the trouble of posting actual video evidence which shows exactly how unrealistic and unbalanced this "sniper rifle" is when it is used as a run-and-gun weapon, something which you guys say is not what GRAW 2 is about. The only comeback people seem to have is either "that it's part of the game, get used to it", or "that's not how it's supposed to be used". As has already been explained, many online games have had exploits and imbalances which have been patched out, why should GRAW 2 be any different?

3) All sorts of other reasons come out about how we can used mods or play on special servers if we're not happy with the situation. Well guess what, many of us aren't part of a clan, some of us live in parts of the world where our choice of servers is limited to only a handful during our play hours, and why should we rely on a mod to fix something the developers should fix as part of the normal game development/patching process?

I was playing on a server with AA_SkillsEw last night, and he can attest to the fact that even when he and others were using the M99, I did not complain once, and I adjusted my tactics to beat most people who were using it and get a good score, or achieve the objective. AA_SkillsEw himself is also an excellent player, and MorphingJar is obviously a very skilled player. So none of us are whining because we're getting "owned" by the M99, or because we can't use it ourselves or adjust to it.

The suggestions being made to intelligently modify the M99 are being made to make the game enjoyable for everyone, not a handful of hardcore players. If you really want GRIN to succeed in getting this game to be popular, and at the same time have GRAW 2 be something other than just a cross between a genuine tac shooter and a deathmatch game, then game balance tweaks are necessary.

Lastly, it makes no sense that people here like Viiiper who keep saying they use the M99 as its intended (i.e. to sniper prone from a distance) would oppose changes which only affect people who are using it as a run-and-gun instagib weapon. If you want to use the M99 as a sniper gun, adding scope sway and slightly slower scope up time will have no impact on the genuinely skillful players. Same with adding minimum distance to GL. Both are changes to prevent noob and exploitative behavior, while leaving these weapons just as powerful for their intended purpose.

QFT! Someone buy this guy a beer.

BTW, this guy is a genius in both the context and presentation of his guides, you should really check them out.

Edited July 29, 2007 by Easton

[ruggbutt]

What you seem have missed in the last 15 pages WK is not that we want the M99 removed, we want it to perform how it does IRL in comparison to how the rest of the rifles perform. The one shot kill is close to reality so I can live with that in game. The shouldering it and firing it as quickly as you can the M4, M8 or any of the other dedicated assault rifles is hokey and unrealistic. I've shot many of the guns portrayed in this game and GRIN did a killer job of make the recoil and muzzle climb on the guns approximate real life.

All except for the M99. I'm not gonna bash GRIN too hard because most game developers get the sniper rifle wrong. CoD actually did a good job with the swaying rets and so forth on their sniper rifles. There were several ideas on how to "fix" this rifle so it performs more realistically. I won't rehash them, go back and read the whole thread again.

The same has been said of the GL. The 30m arming distance is more realistic and it would force those using it to not use it as a "n00b" tube.

[Lnwlf]

fantastic summary. at last someone who can see the forest through the trees.

:lock:

[Yog-Sothoth]

To the scope sway and slower scope up time I would add one more thing, lack of reticule without zooming. I doubt that someone in real fight will shoot without upping to the shoulder with .50 cal.