m99 Awareness week

[viiiper]

highly skilled snipers can be countered with highly skilled covering fire.

And that is the real problem here, there are very few highly skilled players! players that work as a team, players that use comms, players that trade off and support each other.

I played the other night with a team friend "Maj3stic" and he carried a M416 & I a M99, between us with voice comms, out gunned and took over 100 kills in a six round match on nowhere. My point is, we worked as a team and his kill rate with the M416 was higher than mine. Here we have in this thread (and in general), players that DO NOT WORK as a team, with comms, with load outs. End of story.

When we were compromised, on the next spwan in, I chose a none scoped SCAR-H with 2 grenade GL and came back nuked the infiltrators, dropped the scar & tube and picked up my previously dropped M99. Through out voice comms played a key role between us, and that was only a two man team. Imagine if we were Six?

Like the game requires, players that don't play like GR1 and co-ordinate will get owned and when the servers drop respawns to 3 or less then we will see the real GRAW2.

I know others work as a team and there the real competition, not the run and gun rifle men of yesteryear.

[Lethal.Ambition]

I've played Nowhere twice and after the first time I learned what tactics every else used. I don't like sniping, but I don't jump on people doing it. I stuck to using the path to the bottom right where all of the assault, demo, and rifleman action is at and every once in a while seeing if I could sneak through the main side. It's very hard, but exciting as hell.

[{B:P:R}Joker]

highly skilled snipers can be countered with highly skilled covering fire. Of course, that would require some creative thought, and one might argue that should be banned too.

so grin we want a server filter for no m99, no gl, no tactics no mounted machine guns cause there too noisy,

come on people surely there is more imperative graw 2 item that grin need some input on rather than all this other one sniper weapon or am i missing the point and wanting a more stable game so we can worry about this later?

or would people rather have the m99 missing or de-restricted and keep having script errors, no proper modding and dedi tools.

[MorphingJar]

I challenge anyone, inc. the thread starter to play a map like "arroyo" with only M99 and see how long they survive. The M99 only works when there are a variety of weapons in a team, that mix determines how the M99 player will preform. The number of times I've been shot at by a M99 and the player has missed and in there reload time, I have scoped them and eliminated that threat are numerous. The GL can easily remove a sniper and when a team works together the effect is the same.

As a matter of fact I've played that map many times with only the m99 and I never have a problem pushing up with it.

Factor in lag from client to server and back and the M99 becomes less of a problem, communicate with each other, it's not that the M99 is the problem but the lack of experience in dealing with diffrent strategies that causes the problem.

Uh. When has lag ever been a factor for anything in GRAW2?

[xtraclip]

well, it might not be a exactly a "noob" thing, but at least there is the opinion that it is unfair, und whoever uses something that is unfair is ... whatever.

This threat is about an balancing issue, and if people who use this weapon or even admit that it is unfair are against changing it, this thread becomes even more necessary.

Maybe it really is a good idea to make all these things serverside options, but as there aren't that much players these days and finding a crowded server with the map and gametype you like isn't that easy, I really don't want too much customization as this makes things even more difficult.

What really is annoying about the M99 is when you get killed with it in close combat. I really like to see a little more disadvantage of an instagib weapon in close combat and maybe a little less damage so you won't get killed by a toe-shot.

I really don't want to see more and more skilled players to pick this weapon because it is the easiest and fastest way to eliminate the threat.

[viiiper]

well, it might not be a exactly a "noob" thing, but at least there is the opinion that it is unfair, und whoever uses something that is unfair is ... whatever.

This threat is about an balancing issue, and if people who use this weapon or even admit that it is unfair are against changing it, this thread becomes even more necessary.

Maybe it really is a good idea to make all these things serverside options, but as there aren't that much players these days and finding a crowded server with the map and gametype you like isn't that easy, I really don't want too much customization as this makes things even more difficult.

What really is annoying about the M99 is when you get killed with it in close combat. I really like to see a little more disadvantage of an instagib weapon in close combat and maybe a little less damage so you won't get killed by a toe-shot.

I really don't want to see more and more skilled players to pick this weapon because it is the easiest and fastest way to eliminate the threat.

Where do we start?

I really don't want to see more and more skilled players to pick this weapon because it is the easiest and fastest way to eliminate the threat.

So you consider the nuke tube a less destructive weapon? and is not "it is the easiest and fastest way to eliminate the threat." I regualrly TUBE players at 100m without a problem, infact I'm so good with it that I was getting a reputation, so now I reserve it for my special opponent's. You can ask some of the members here.

What really is annoying about the M99 is when you get killed with it in close combat.

Only a fool would use a M99 in CQ (my opinion) The M99 is only a range weapon, at CQ the Glock 18 or MP5-SD is the alternative for a sniper.

This threat is about an balancing issue

No it's not, it's about playing as a team, and the lack of. That is the balance that makes the M99 so good, the players are not playing as a team. So it ends up on alot of maps as a shooting gallery.

I challenge anyone, inc. the thread starter to play a map like "arroyo" with only M99 and see how long they survive. The M99 only works when there are a variety of weapons in a team, that mix determines how the M99 player will preform. The number of times I've been shot at by a M99 and the player has missed and in there reload time, I have scoped them and eliminated that threat are numerous. The GL can easily remove a sniper and when a team works together the effect is the same.

As a matter of fact I've played that map many times with only the m99 and I never have a problem pushing up with it.

I'm talking about your whole team on M99 not just you, (as stated by others, in the map NOWHERE) where all are sniping

Factor in lag from client to server and back and the M99 becomes less of a problem, communicate with each other, it's not that the M99 is the problem but the lack of experience in dealing with diffrent strategies that causes the problem.

Uh. When has lag ever been a factor for anything in GRAW2?

Where has lag not been an issue? So your saying a player with 150+ms ping to server has the same advantage as a player with 30mS ping? please, give me a break, Ping/ lag is the first problem faced by many players before we get to the thread topic of M99's (with 2 flakes). players with 150mS pings have to wait for the enemy to stand still before a good shot can be made. They see player positions 0.15 seconds out of position, so to try to kill a running player, they have to aim in front of them all the time. That's just one lag problem from the "Lag basket"

[Guest]

LoL, dude you need to find another game. If you don't see the disadvantages and advantages of the weapon, then you just don't get the concept of the game at all.

Without being elaborate, I'll just say "teamwork...."

Edited July 26, 2007 by durka-durka*BDA*

[{B:P:R}Joker]

I really don't want to see more and more skilled players to pick this weapon because it is the easiest and fastest way to eliminate the threat.

i cant believe you just posted that to be honest i cant remember the last clan match in the rules it stated the longer and more bullets you use to kill the opponent you get more points?

of course you are going to take the weapon that can gain you a quick kill and certain maps that will be the weapon of choice as stated before in a clan match on most maps you are going to have snipers to cover your men. why is that oh yeah TEAM PLAY, tactics call it what ever you want.

rvsa m99 sniper on the high ridge on the demo mp map calavera or what ever it was called overlooking adapt c not only to cover your men or man trying to blow it up, but also as a spotter due to the reload time and amount of ammo so you cant kill everyone all the time.

[C9.Constantine]

getting the dedi server tools working better and with more options so you can take out the snipers of the server settings.

Erm, I'm not sure but I think i read on this forum that you CAN do this, if you alter the xml file for you dedi server.

in my opinion it is a noob weapon AND much too strong in the hand of a high skilled player

Fact still remains: 1 hit of this gun in real life, WILL kill you

Fact: standing & shooting this weapon in GRAW 1 & 2 in unrealistic in every way.

The rifle being to strong in the hand of a high skilled player thats an overstatement,

It's nearly a combo off skills and an overpowered gun, the strenght of the rifle doesnt change when used by a noob/elite player.

This gun needs to be altered in a few ways imo

The most needed one is the recoil for shooting when just standing, the G36C recoil is even bigger.

[Guest]

The recoil is a moot argument seeing as how you have to reload the weapon anyways;)

[ruggbutt]

The recoil is a moot argument seeing as how you have to reload the weapon anyways;)

Poor example, you have to reload the other weapons at some point and they still have recoil. IRL the M99 has quite a bit of recoil, akin to shooting a 12 gauge pump w/slugs. The recoil impulse feels different but that's as close I can get to explaining it. As a comparison, the M14 and the MSG90 (IRL) don't have as much impulse nor as much muzzle climb. In fact on single shot the M14 is extremely controllable IRL.

Edited July 26, 2007 by ruggbutt

[ROCO*AFZ*]

What really is annoying about the M99 is when you get killed with it in close combat.

Only a fool would use a M99 in CQ (my opinion) The M99 is only a range weapon, at CQ the Glock 18 or MP5-SD is the alternative for a sniper

I have to disagree there. In close combat the M99 is one of the best shotguns you can have. It always shoots the same and will eliminate the enemy in 1 shot. Also if they run on the other side of your tin fence you can shoot through it using the sound to know where they are. How do i know this... i have done it. If you have a very good system the FPS allows you to aim very quickly. You can also shoot it before the scope is up (when you only see about an inch of it) and reload with the shot right on target. The M99 always shoot the same and in GRAW1 with some practice you learned to shoot about 2 inches (on my screen) to the right for a direct killing shot on anyone in 10 meters. Now combine this with the G18. You take one at close combat, and VERY quickly bring out your g18 to waste another. (that pistol is VERY deadly with sites up which is almost instant)

[ruggbutt]

Now combine this with the G18. You take one at close combat, and VERY quickly bring out your g18 to waste another. (that pistol is VERY deadly with sites up which is almost instant)

I've only taken the kits w/the G18 a couple times, but it's awesome to come around the corner and strafe someone with. The rate of fire is insane.

[viiiper]

What really is annoying about the M99 is when you get killed with it in close combat.

Only a fool would use a M99 in CQ (my opinion) The M99 is only a range weapon, at CQ the Glock 18 or MP5-SD is the alternative for a sniper

I have to disagree there. In close combat the M99 is one of the best shotguns you can have.

Now this is the only point I disagree on, the M99 is no shotgun, the bullet (round) has no spread and if you miss, you have no second or third round. The comparison to a shotgun for CQ is not a good one I think, as a shotgun has spread and more than one round . I would never use a M99 for CQ and always pull out my secondary.

[Guest]

The recoil is a moot argument seeing as how you have to reload the weapon anyways;)

Poor example, you have to reload the other weapons at some point and they still have recoil. IRL the M99 has quite a bit of recoil, akin to shooting a 12 gauge pump w/slugs. The recoil impulse feels different but that's as close I can get to explaining it. As a comparison, the M14 and the MSG90 (IRL) don't have as much impulse nor as much muzzle climb. In fact on single shot the M14 is extremely controllable IRL.

How's it a poor example? If you go by that argument, then the M99 has like a 3sec recoil. It only has one shot, so unless you are referring to aesthetic purposes, you may have a point, but pertaining to gameplay, there just is no factor.

Edited July 26, 2007 by durka-durka*BDA*

[AA_sKILLsEw]

I don't need a demonstration, I got 1 yesterday. Its a nub tube with 20 shots.

On Lagoon, THE #1 UcG DirtDog (and his 4 nubmates) Got rocked by us for 1 round. Leaving Dirt with a wonderous 0-5. He promptly reconnects. And the whole crew goes to m99 and destroys everything that moves.

Infect, Switchblade and DirtDog being the worst. In one particular situation I was killed 4 times, within 5 ft of the sniper, while strafe running side to side. Which seemed inconceivable to me without reticule lock. They had to be un-scoped... But with myself strafe running, they would've had to swing the gun un-scoped and the keep the reticules still close enough together to accurately put me down.And they did, 1 shot, 4 times, 2 different people, same spot as I was rounding the top on the hill, full speed.

And if you wonder how they have so many consecutive wins... If needed, UcG hops sides at the end to collect wins. I have been told of many occasion where they cleared servers with the m99. But only after not being able win with assault rifles. Whens UcG awareness week?

Poor Little Rabbit

P.S.

Patch it!

1. m99 scope should take longer to get in scope.

2. Should have to be prone to fire accurately.

3. Reticule bloom should be the largest of any weapon. And the longest to get stable.

4. Shouldn't be paired with the best pistol in the game.

5. Should have smallest amount of armor while using the m99.

Realism!

1. Should be able to shoot while running. (Fingers don't work while legs are moving?)

a. Obviously not very accurately, but not having this caters to the camp.

2. Should be able to run while reloading. (Legs don't work while hands are moving?)

3. MORE of a stun shake while being shot. (not sure what its called)

a. Should be a lot harder to return fire while being shot.

Small stuff!

1. Death ticker.

a.Should be able to see whats going on in the game after you die. (I've never seen a game where you have to ask your friends..."Did I get him??" Every time you die.

2. Re-joining a game in progress.

a. SHOULD be able to rejoin a game after being afk for 1 minute at the start of a round.

b. Why should someone in game who left to use the bathroom, be penalized and have to restart, or wait 10 minutes for the round to end???

Edited July 26, 2007 by AA_sKILLsEw

[MorphingJar]

Where has lag not been an issue? So your saying a player with 150+ms ping to server has the same advantage as a player with 30mS ping? please, give me a break, Ping/ lag is the first problem faced by many players before we get to the thread topic of M99's (with 2 flakes). players with 150mS pings have to wait for the enemy to stand still before a good shot can be made. LOL They see player positions 0.15 seconds out of position, so to try to kill a running player, they have to aim in front of them all the time. That's just one lag problem from the "Lag basket"

We must be playing a different game here. I can assure you that you do not have to lead your targets in any way, shape, or form. One of the strongest points of this game is its near perfect Netcode. The only thing a high ping does for you is delay the time it takes the server to register the hits between the players and the server. Thats it. You can put a bullet into someone that has 500ms ping at a dead run, and it the bullet will register a half-second later. So when you say you have difficulties shooting running targets, that leads me to believe that your not a good shot

[Guest]

MorningJar, how do you explain the many times in GRAW1 where you hit someone with a sniper rifle, and even see blood, but no kill? How do you explain people being able to shoot you around a corner before they appear? I would think it has something to do with lag, or maybe your near perfect netcode.

[AA_sKILLsEw]

We must be playing a different game here. I can assure you that you do not have to lead your targets in any way, shape, or form. One of the strongest points of this game is its near perfect Netcode. The only thing a high ping does for you is delay the time it takes the server to register the hits between the players and the server. Thats it. You can put a bullet into someone that has 500ms ping at a dead run, and it the bullet will register a half-second later. So when you say you have difficulties shooting running targets, that leads me to believe that your not a good shot

Yeah, you can do just as well in Euro servers as in U.S. for this reason. Granted you may notice some time between shot hit and death. Yesterday in 22nd server UK. I took a 50 cal hit, had a good, "oh ****" moment and dropped 5 secs later. Anywho hit them, they die.

Yes Durka, I've been killed by someone before they even rounded a rock. But some people don't have this problem in my clan. I could see it being certain instances where corner on corner lag could effect a situation. But couldn't it even be computer specs or processor speed?

Edited July 26, 2007 by AA_sKILLsEw

[ROCO*AFZ*]

I don't need a demonstration, I got 1 yesterday. Its a nub tube with 20 shots.

On Lagoon, THE #1 UcG DirtDog (and his 4 nubmates) Got rocked by us for 1 round. Leaving Dirt with a wonderous 0-5. He promptly reconnects. And the whole crew goes to m99 and destroys everything that moves.

Infect, Switchblade and DirtDog being the worst. In one particular situation I was killed 4 times, within 5 ft of the sniper, while strafe running side to side. Which seemed inconceivable to me without reticule lock. They had to be un-scoped... But with myself strafe running, they would've had to swing the gun un-scoped and the keep the reticules still close enough together to accurately put me down.And they did, 1 shot, 4 times, 2 different people, same spot as I was rounding the top on the hill, full speed.

And if you wonder how they have so many consecutive wins... If needed, UcG hops sides at the end to collect wins. I have been told of many occasion where they cleared servers with the m99. But only after not being able win with assault rifles. Whens UcG awareness week?

Poor Little Rabbit

P.S.

Patch it!

1. m99 scope should take longer to get in scope.

2. Should have to be prone to fire accurately.

3. Reticule bloom should be the largest of any weapon. And the longest to get stable.

4. Shouldn't be paired with the best pistol in the game.

5. Should have smallest amount of armor while using the m99.

Realism!

1. Should be able to shoot while running. (Fingers don't work while legs are moving?)

a. Obviously not very accurately, but not having this caters to the camp.

2. Should be able to run while reloading. (Legs don't work while hands are moving?)

3. MORE of a stun shake while being shot. (not sure what its called)

a. Should be a lot harder to return fire while being shot.

Small stuff!

1. Death ticker.

a.Should be able to see whats going on in the game after you die. (I've never seen a game where you have to ask your friends..."Did I get him??" Every time you die.

2. Re-joining a game in progress.

a. SHOULD be able to rejoin a game after being afk for 1 minute at the start of a round.

b. Why should someone in game who left to use the bathroom, be penalized and have to restart, or wait 10 minutes for the round to end???

Ignore the reticule bloom, it means nothing with the M99 from what i have seen unless from the hip, then maybe.

The straff running you see sometimes happens when someone is running goes straffe and goes to walk straff, snaps the scope up (with good vid card it's very fast) fires and goes back to run. Sometimes that happens and instead you seem to skip fire and skip.

VIIPER in close combat there is limited hallways which is perfect for an m99 scope as u don't have to adjust much and if you hit any part of the body they die. The shotgun reference is because of the loud sound and instant kill. In a hallway that is only the width of a person, it might as well be a shotgun.

[AA_sKILLsEw]

[quote name='ROCO*AFZ*' date='Jul 26 2007, 07:03 PM' post='481395'

Ignore the reticule bloom, it means nothing with the M99 from what i have seen unless from the hip, then maybe.

The straff running you see sometimes happens when someone is running goes straffe and goes to walk straff, snaps the scope up (with good vid card it's very fast) fires and goes back to run. Sometimes that happens and instead you seem to skip fire and skip.

VIIPER in close combat there is limited hallways which is perfect for an m99 scope as u don't have to adjust much and if you hit any part of the body they die. The shotgun reference is because of the loud sound and instant kill. In a hallway that is only the width of a person, it might as well be a shotgun.

[funk]

First thing I will add is that a just love using the m99, and so do many others. If its being filtered by servers then watch them servers stay empty.

Its a similar weapon to the AWP on css, if someone is using it then I just grab a few grenades and the balance is equal. The same can be said about the m99, its balance is the GL.

A couple of things about it that could be changed are that if im shooting at someones foot then it should reduce their health by for example 20%?? not kill them.

I agree that if you are carrying one your sprint should be slightly slower than someone whos not carrying one and you cant aim if your not standing still.

Its also the maps, now, if there are urban type maps with plenty of inclosed spaces the m99 would be a poor choice. Im waiting for a jungle map aswell, the gfx support this type of map and would be very popular IMHO.

[AA_sKILLsEw]

First thing I will add is that a just love using the m99, and so do many others. If its being filtered by servers then watch them servers stay empty.

Its a similar weapon to the AWP on css, if someone is using it then I just grab a few grenades and the balance is equal. The same can be said about the m99, its balance is the GL.

A couple of things about it that could be changed are that if im shooting at someones foot then it should reduce their health by for example 20%?? not kill them.

I agree that if you are carrying one your sprint should be slightly slower than someone whos not carrying one and you cant aim if your not standing still.

Its also the maps, now, if there are urban type maps with plenty of inclosed spaces the m99 would be a poor choice. Im waiting for a jungle map aswell, the gfx support this type of map and would be very popular IMHO.

LOL, you mean watch those servers FILL UP with people who DONT need a nub tool to get kills? You are wrong. And the only reason you or anyone uses that gun is because its the easiest to get a kill with. If they patch the 50cal into crappiness, all the nubes, like yourself, will find the next easiest thing to use. Either way, our server will be full. With or without it.

I do agree with body damage variance.

Jungle map???? The Cut mb?

P.S. Play the game for more than 5 minutes next time.

Edited July 26, 2007 by AA_sKILLsEw

[Guest]

AAskills...are you the same guy who was complaining so much the other night when your team was getting owned by assault rifles? If you're the same guy, (which you may not be so no offense if you aren't) but I shot you in the back so many times when you were't looking, and your movements were so predictable (if this was you). Please be easy on the "nub" comments:)

[Cangaroo.TNT]

Ummm, who says the M99 is the easiest gun with which to get kills? I use the SCAR-H because it's the easiest gun for me to get kills. I get used to it's accuracy & recoil & all of its characteristics and then adjust to them instinctively. Should I not choose the SCAR-H because it's easy for me?