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Why is Campaign coop Crippled like this?


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The thing that set GRAW1's campaign coop apart from the entire rest of the game ... and from all other games .... the thing that made campaign coop in GRAW1 so immersive and fun and controllable for squad leaders, is gone. Poof. Gone. And its worse that I orginally thought...

#1.

As Squad leader, i cannot give an order to another human using the move-here, cover there system. ( i have reported this before)

#2.

As Squad leader, I cannot even **select** a human to give an order to. The human players are skipped over in the scroll list. so if you have 2 humans and 2 AI, The human names in teh list are skipped over during the mouse wheel scroll.

#3.

Becuase i cannot even select a human, I cannot look through his cross com AT ALL!!!! This was a great feature in GRAW1? Why have we gone backwards on this? Is Cross som 2.0 only for AI now? I'm crushed. It was a great squad leader feature and I pray we get it back ......

#4.

Becuase I cannot use the cross com of a Human, I cannot issue an advancing order through that Humans cross comm. this was supposed to be a premier feature of the new Cross comm 2.0.!! Apparently, its only version 2.0 for the AI. for a human player, its cross com version 0.0. My heart is breaking.

#5.

During Multiplayer coop campaign, my human buddy could not see the red diamonds i was tagging people with. Why? becuse the cross comm does not work with humans? How is it helping us in squad combat if we are in coop campaign and we can't implement the technology?

Cross comms 2.0 does not work with other humans in Campaign coop.

Squad orders do not work with other humans in Campaign coop

Both worked as advertised in GRAW1.

Since i cannot select humans in the scroll list but can select AI, it is clear to me that this missing feature is well know to GriN. After all, they had to program the fact that humans in the list would be skipped during the scroll.

So please tell us GRiN. Why did you guys decide to eliminate this great and immersive and premier feature from GRAW1? It is at the core of the campaign coop expereince and now it is gone?

GRiN? Please tell me that this was a feature you couldn't get working right in time, so you pulled it. and you are working hard now to get it ready for the next patch. Please. Please tell me this.

I'm done whiining now (although the crying may take weeks if I don't hear back on this ....)

Edited by Sleepdoc
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I KNEW there'd be CrossCom bugs in the next GRAW installment! I called it! PWNt...

Whoa there Nellie.

No one from GRiN yet has stated that this is a bug. In fact, if you read GRiN Wolfsongs carefully crafted response to my initial reports on this issue, he did not say it was a bug. He said something to the effect of "The people who make the patches are aware of your post".... At that time, I was not yet fully aware of how gutted this feature was.

My fear is that this is not a "Bug". Rather, I am concerned that this is an intended feature which was pulled from the final release for god-knows-what reason. Possibly becuase it was buggy or possibly becuase they ran out of time, or possibly becuase (and god help me if this is it ...), they thought no one cared enough about the feature in GRAW1 to bother with it again in GRAW2.

The fact that the Squad leader cannot select the human in the scrolling list, no matter if he has 1 or 2 humans in the mix with AI, is very telling indeed. It implies that it was programmed to roll past humans. They know this entire functionality from GRAW1 is missing.

This ain't no bug.

The question is .... is this on the list to be reborn in the next patch? God I hope so. Becuase this is a premier and favorite feature of mine in my favorite mode of play. Campaign coop.

Edited by Sleepdoc
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well i suppose they think that because you are playing with humans you dont need to show them were to go ! you can just tell them and they will move themself. Of cource this would work except your human team mates cant see a map !! so you cant give them a grid ref to move to !

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well i suppose they think that because you are playing with humans you dont need to show them were to go ! you can just tell them and they will move themself. Of cource this would work except your human team mates cant see a map !! so you cant give them a grid ref to move to !

besides: you cannot assume that everyone is playing with teamspeak. especially when not all of the players are native english-speakers. the possiblity of giving orders like in sp has the advantage, that you can visually show your teammates what your orders are. this implies, of course, that everyone has access to the map.... :shifty:

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I played a FEW rounds of COOP in GRAW, and that command/waypoint system was effective. A bit rough, but generally a good thing. Especially when , as pointed out above, you're dealing with folks who speak/read various languages. I managed to successfully follow all my orders and survive a COOP round with a guy who spoke French. Since I don't know a dang word of French, and he knew only a handful in English, if not for the orders/waypoints/markers in COOP, we'd never have been able to enjoy that round.

Just think, GRIN, by re-implementing that feature, you'll be helping to bring peace and understanding to the world. Even helping Americans and Europeans and Aussies understand and get along with one another. It'll be GREAT! You'll be like Wyld Stalyns music, but without the crap acting! (Well, unless Ubishaft insists on it...)

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Have I missed something here?

I played campaign mode with 3 friends and had no problems, full mission 1- 10, I gave orders via VOIP and we had a great time talking to each other. You guys saying you don't give vocal orders? that you only give way point orders? Is this the problem your having ?

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well i suppose they think that because you are playing with humans you dont need to show them were to go ! you can just tell them and they will move themself. Of cource this would work except your human team mates cant see a map !! so you cant give them a grid ref to move to !

besides: you cannot assume that everyone is playing with teamspeak. especially when not all of the players are native english-speakers. the possiblity of giving orders like in sp has the advantage, that you can visually show your teammates what your orders are. this implies, of course, that everyone has access to the map.... :shifty:

I`m in full agreement with this, TBH.

Tinker

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Have I missed something here?

I played campaign mode with 3 friends and had no problems, full mission 1- 10, I gave orders via VOIP and we had a great time talking to each other. You guys saying you don't give vocal orders? that you only give way point orders? Is this the problem your having ?

Hi this is my 1st post here. Glad to join this community.

What if your friends were Spanish , Chinese, Germen. It'd be different story. It's also way clearer to see where to move to rather than to be told.

The guys that posted earlier made clear and strong points why we need to have this feature back. I totally agree with them.

Edited by thepodest
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I'm going to say something a bit contraversial and a bit confrontational.....

IMHO, anyone who argues against the presence of a feature that they choose not to use, but which was a premier feature in GRAW1 for other players, is just being selfish and short sighted. They are essentially saying, "I don't use that feature, so you don't need it".. I rarely used the satellite map to give orders ... should i go on record stating they should not have it as a feature ?????

The order system in GRAW 1 was a fast and fun way to practice the very serious business of bounding overwatch without ambiguity. And it was a premier feature of Campagn Coop. Period. It was excellent and served a multitude of purposes and functions. I was looking forward to having it back with the "new and improved" blue, move-here circle (for non ambiguity of position) and I was looking forward to the cross comm 2.0 application as well. Nope. Gone.

Furthermore, it allowed campaign coop play online with strangers who didnt have Teamspeak or didnt speak your language. It allowed "pick up games" to transpire with accuracy. Ever tried to "chat" movement orders? Not possible. And certainly not fun.

Furthermore, I used it even with teamspeak. Do you disapprove? GRiN gave us the feature. It was fun.

It is a Squad leaders tool ...... and GRAW2 is a squad leaders game. It was a great feature.

Additionally, it isn't just the move orders that are missing. It's the cross comm. No order system means no access to your buddies Cross comm.

No satellite map for players either. Only the squad leader.

Also, a bug in passing the contacts (red diamonds)

The dominoe effect here is complete. This isn't just about the orders system. But the whole problem starts with the ommission of the order system from human leader to human squad member.

Edited by Sleepdoc
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I agree with you completely. I don't know what GRIN was thinking.

The only differences we have is that I don't think it necessary for other team members to see the satellite or other players' crosscom. Remember only Mitchell, as the leader of the squad, has these advantages. Satellite is fed directly do Scott, and all team members' cameras feed directly to him. In a Campaign Co-op it should be the same. Players trust their lives with Mitchell, and hope that when he gives them that "Cover that" order he also has someone covering his flank.

Come on GRIN. Bring it back!

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Of cource this would work except your human team mates cant see a map !! so you cant give them a grid ref to move to !

Actually, this wouldn't work at all.

although you are correct that a map with grid coordinates is a much missed feature and needs to come back to campaign coop, it is inadequate for implementating the technique of bounding overwatch. Grid coordinates are far too "low resolution". I need to be able to give highly specific orders to my human friends about which corner of which building ... or which edge of which tree.... to move to. This can best be done (best = non-ambiguously) by using the new order placement and cover order system that is available to the AI. You know. the one that is missing from GRAW2 human campaign coop? :wall:

The only differences we have is that I don't think it necessary for other team members to see the satellite or other players' crosscom.

I'm not sure about this. After all, it is somewhat fictitious technology. I thought all the players had the HUD system. not just the squad leader. If the story line is that only the Squad leader has the hud, then I'm on board. But I'm mainly arguing for the squad leader to have the cross comms and the order system. He is the guy who has to move the men around and help keep them alive. He implements the movement strategy.

I was really really really looking forward to moving my men through the terrain, and occassionally using their cross comm to give them more advancing orders in areas they could see that I could not.

As a squad leader, it is nice to hang back. Let the point man be on point. Without the cross comm (as in GRAW1) I often had to move to point, becuase I simply couldn't see enough out ahead of me to give the next order. And when i used a players cross comm to see up there, i couldnt give an order to him through it.

the cross comm 2.0 was a super idea for squad leader fun. wish I actually had one in Campaign coop.

Edited by Sleepdoc
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You could always shoot at your buddies feet to get his/her attention, point to a place you want him/her to go like a lampost then shoot the lampost!!

Seriously, GRIN should have taken GR:AW and built on these advanced features for GRAW2, not removed them :)

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What would be so hard about implementing selecting a team member slot, whether human or AI, and putting a visible waypoint on the ground, using the tac map. This would be an excellent improvement, especially since there are few TS servers.

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hmmm....Rocky? What was the point in removing the "@GRiN" part of my thread title? Is that perceived as rude or something? It was not meant to be.

Of course, i'm assuming that Rocky did that. If not, then the question is directed to whoever did. I'm not really bothered by it. but I am curious.

Edited by Sleepdoc
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hmmm....Rocky? What was the point in removing the "@GRiN" part of my thread title? Is that perceived as rude or something? It was not meant to be.

Of course, i'm assuming that Rocky did that. If not, then the question is directed to whoever did. I'm not really bothered by it. but I am curious.

It wasn't me but I can take a stab at why.

There were many threads started up with "@GRIN" in the title, people were using the forum as their personal conduit with a direct line to the Dev team - but this isn't an official GRIN support forum. We are lucky and glad to have them post here, but it is in an unofficial capacity, so having the place look like an official support forum rather than a hangout was a step in the wrong direction. If I was at GRIN at every time I logged on I saw all these threads demanding my attention, I'd think it would get old pretty quick.

Between them I'd say GRIN must see just about every post here, and having @GRIN in the title doesn't make the content any more likely to be constructive than one without, or any more likely to be opened. If it really is something that GRIN must see, it should be mailed to them. It's far more important to have the title accurately reflect the content, which is something we are also lucky to see happen most of the time here compared to some other forums.

It's not as big an issue as my lengthy explanation might indicate, but that's my take on it :)

Back on topic - good post, I hope they address this in the next patch.

What I would add is that

(1) I find the paper map in coop quite good, although the grid co-ords are a little small, maybe those images can be modded.

(2) Original GR has the ability to place markers on the command map that your team mates can see, and in all the years I've played GR co-op, I don't think I've ever used that ability; tried it for a while but found that a gridded map for identifying waypoints quickly over comms, and comms for more "that bush next to the rock" sort of precise movements worked better. Personally I always found that adeqaute.

Having said that, because setting markers is available in other parts of GRAW2, it does feel like an ommision not to have it for online campaign co-op, and as said, better to have that option for people that do really want to use it.

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Back on topic - good post, I hope they address this in the next patch.

Me too.

The Silence is deafening ......

But GRiN Wolfsong did let me/us know in an earlier post (where the extent of the issue was not fully reflected or understood) that their guys knew about it. He didn't indicate they were going to do anything about it though. Such is the nature of resource management and expectations management. I get that.

But I sure wish theyt would promise something in here. :whistle: Becuase they are good at keeping their promises.... :yes:

Edited by Sleepdoc
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