GRIN Gag Order

[Rocky]

In the face of some critiscm over the years GR.net has always tried to maintain a positive relationship with Ubisoft, however this month that relationship has become strained to the point that I feel it is time to take a stance, for the benefit of GRAW 2 PC, and the loyal GR community.

As fans will know GRAW developer GRIN have been posting on our forums for sometime now, for one reason, the betterment of the game through interaction with the game playing community. Countless bugs have been identified and rectified through the constructive and detailed postings by fans. When Ubisoft's own beta bug reporting tool failed, it was GhostRecon.net that provided backup forums that kept the flow of bug reports coming in so GRIN could quickly assess the issues and take appropriate action.

However, it has come to my attention that GRIN have been banned from posting on our forums by Ubisoft.

Up until the gag order was set in place, there had been countless constructive exchanges in our forums that furthered the cause of producing a good solid sequal to GRAW. We at Ghostrecon.net are in no doubt that this gag order from Ubisoft will be detrimental to the crucial post release stage of GRAW 2. We are in no doubt that the handicap of one way conversations will be detrimental to any progress likely to be achieved over the coming weeks. If you consider that we have also learned GRIN may have been given only four weeks to patch GRAW 2 after release, the importance of constructive two way dialog between developer and end user should be seen as essential, and it is for that reason that I am making this appeal to Ubisoft to reconsider.

GRIN developers are on our forums every day gleaning information on how to make this title better, but now with the handicap of a Ubisoft imposed gag order.

GhostRecon.net has always been about supporting the Ghost Recon series, we even take flack for it now and again, but that's what drives us; to provide the best possible resource for Ghost Recon fans. This latest move by Ubisoft in France however is the last straw for us. All the good work and relationships forged with Ubisoft offices in the USA and the UK is now out on a limb - because we will not sit back and watch what is so close to being the TRUE successor to Ghost Recon 1, fall at the final hurdle due to what boils down to a communications blackout with the developer.

Without getting hung up on the details, if you feel as strongly as we do that this is a step in the wrong direction by Ubisoft, post it up here. Believe me, there is a studio in Sweden that is just as perplexed by this as we are, now show them your support.

[Agent Smith]

UBI just lost all of my respect. They should stick to their console kiddy games where they belong.

GRAW2 is the LAST Ubi product I'm buying. I'm only buying it for the game itself and to support GRIN.

Edited July 13, 2007 by Agent Smith

[Sleepdoc-iBeta]

I do not recommend turning this post into an "insult-a-fest" of ubisoft. That is the qiuckest way to ensure that Ubi stops listening to reasons and just digs its heals in on this decision they have made. It is human nature.

I do not believe rocky made this post to motivate us to go after UBI. He made it, as far as I can tell, to get us to either agree or disagree and a make a mature passionate plea to UBI to pay attention.

UBI,

We all have bad ideas from time to time. this gag order is a bad idea. I cannot imagine what you will gain by forcing a wedge between GRiN and the guys at this site who want nothing more than to help and get good info going both ways between develop and fan.

What you gain by allowing 2 way contact is far greater than anything you may lose. Secrecy is way over rated.

Please reconsider this gag order.

I hope you guys change your mind.

Edited July 13, 2007 by Sleepdoc

[Colin]

The same applies to the Ubisoft Forum Ill probably get the boot for saying so but stuff it.

It is a bad move no wrong word its a major screw up.

Its like a tooth brush and tooth paste one does not work without the other and its that simple.

You dont disable a good relationship that workes and produces great results and cross world freindships.

Rocky has put this thread well enough no more to add.

I thought this sholud go up at Ubi.

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&amp...9375#7221029375

Edited July 13, 2007 by Colin

[rookie]

There isn't really much to say w/o knowing why Ubi would order this. Keep a coming title a secret ?

I mean, only good can come of a 2-way contact allowing to tell certain things and react to bug-reports or well formulated criticism.

What Ubi is trying to do with this ? I don't know, but since GRAW 2 just hit the shelves and needs feedback (in both directions) it would be important in this phase to think about this step again.

[OrgazmO]

Lame but I cant say I am surprised, Ubi has always had a severe case of the G4y.

Edited July 13, 2007 by OrgazmO

[Agent Smith]

There isn't really much to say w/o knowing why Ubi would order this. Keep a coming title a secret ?

I mean, only good can come of a 2-way contact allowing to tell certain things and react to bug-reports or well formulated criticism.

What Ubi is trying to do with this ? I don't know, but since GRAW 2 just hit the shelves and needs feedback (in both directions) it would be important in this phase to think about this step again.

I think UBI wants to pull off another Vegas. However, they know that GR has a bigger community than R6 will ever have. I think we're scaring them.

[spotH3D]

The gag is a very questionable move, I hope it is lifted.

As for Ubisoft, it is better to let others think poorly of you than to take an action to remove all doubt.

[SCE_COB77]

UBISoft....please reconsider this action, we all want,what you and Grin want!!

A SUCCESSFUL RELEASE OF AN OUTSTANDING GAME...YOU NEED US, JUST AS WE NEED YOU!!

[INTIMADATOR]

THERE IS ONE THING THAT THEY ARE FORGETTING they have to please us or we wont buy it ,they need our input ,to better it and fix what bugs are there ,if not a couple of bad reports and no one would buy the game ,,so GRIN should tell UBI to take a hike

Edited July 13, 2007 by INTIMADATOR

[McGhost]

Well I just banned Ubisoft from taking any more of my money!

[Hammer]

I would hope UBI will reconsider this But i dont think they will Its just one of many nails in the coffin of PC games. its simple They dont want the feed back, because there not interested in the PC version, The luch box version works fine and thats enough for them. I would not be suprised if it was them that blocked the editor from bbeing released, but thats another story.

[Trident-za]

This is quite amazing... what possible BENEFIT could there be to this ban... for Ubisoft, Grin or the fanbase? Cutting off communication like this can ONLY have negative consequences.

Ubisoft, please reconsider... your sales can only benefit from having the developers and the fans chatting with each other!

Edited July 13, 2007 by Trident-za

[Bahger]

It's highly unlikely that anything we say or do in protest will persuade Ubi to lift this gag order because from their corporate point of view, Grin's participation in any discussion of ways in which the game might be fixed constitutes an implicit admission that it may be broken and this, to Ubi, is a PR liability.

The smartest way to proceed, in my opinion, is to make our own responses to the game as constructive as possible for two reasons: (i) we know that the Grinners are able to read what we write even when they cannot respond and (ii) the devs might appreciate our encouragement all the more now that their corporate overlords are issuing fatwahs like this.

If we are not courteous, constructive and articulate in the way we respond to the initial release of the game, we will only marginalise ourselves from both parties now that Ubi has driven a wedge between us and Grin. I happen to believe that Grin has made tremendous progress with GRAW 2, on the basis of many hours spent playing the demo. They need to be given credit for what they have achieved and not just demands for what they might yet achieve in patching the game. I can now rely on my AI squadmates to find cover, to respond intelligently to movement orders given via the HUD and the design of the maps and the improvements in AI have made it possible for the game to be played for the first time as a tactical simulation rather than a sophisticated first-person corridor shooter with tactical components. I do not think they have quite perfected the ROE transitions yet, especially where it involves AI weapon-changes with certain loadouts under certain circumstances but I beleieve that if we can keep the tone civil and the comments constructive, we will not need Ubi to mediate between us and Grin. This fatwah will only become an issue for us if the usual blizzard of negativity following the release of the game succeeds in obscuring all the more useful and positive comment and drives the devs off the board.

[sui317]

@GRIN

as long as you can read our posts and you can show you visit, we will supply our comments and input and nothing can stop that, not even ubi.

i and most others will keep supporting you as you have supported us and our beloved game.

@ubi

you can limit the joy for a quick buck, but that buck won't last if you RUIN this game by limiting our communications

publish a game, don't ruin it.

[=AO=Stryck_9]

I am curious as to what this means "If you consider that we have also learned GRIN have been given only four weeks to patch GRAW 2 after release" 4 weeks in total? 1 patch only? then no more support ?

This Gag order and Ubi's continual ambivalent attitude to its pc customers is a true disappointment.

@ Grin Guys I loved the mp demo its the most fun I have had adverse since the heyday of ravenshield I respect you all but am now going to reconsider whether or not I and my clan should buy this game or consider getting a dedicated server when the support status of this game may be questionable.

@ UBI you have been doing the right thing with GRAW 2 so far don't drop the ball now let GRIN do the things we have come to respect them for , Willingness to listen and toss ideas back and forth with the people who purchase your products. You know us your customers.

Edited July 13, 2007 by =AO=Stryck_9

[pz3]

Big surprise to any one?????

I hate to say it Rocky but the community we have/had or want wont exist if UBI keeps its head up their own ass.

Which one of any of these games diserve a Tomclancy Title?

GR2

GRAW

GRAW2

R6:LD

R6:Vegas

Regardless of platform and minus Bear Man's great MP design for the 360...

These games design were all hit or miss and sadly while a couple parts of them were hits the rest was misses.

anyways... tired.... never thought id post again like this but UBI just killed anything they had going for them which was GRIN atleast being a part of the GR community!

[sui317]

the more the community supports this game and keeps supporting this game the more the chance we will have that we can enjoy it for a long time with official support or community support as in the [GR] days with mods and home brewing

[CJMello]

UBI is corporate and like most corporations they loose touch with the little people (consumers).

[Fletch]

The reason GR:AW2 is looking so good and has so many people excited about it is the communication between the fans and the Developer. GRIN has done an outstanding job with this game and it would not have happened if this gag order had been in place from the begining.

[Halli~SPARTA~]

/login xxxxxx

>login

Login successful

/kick UBI

UBI has been kicked from Server

You have helped us and we would like to Thank you for Being there

when we needed you Thanks GRIN!

[viiiper]

I believe that the tone of this thread should reflect the facts in a positive manner as "Rocky's" original topic thread stated, that being said the problems GRAW2 faces and in turn Ubisoft as the publisher are many fold.

To Ubisoft.fr

It's with feeling that members at Ghostrecon.net post their topics to the software series GR:AW I & II here at GR.net and to that effect their intentions along with mine are only for the best, to make the title an all time classic and be the best that it can ever be. With that being said, this can only be accomplished with a title, when a community feeds back to the publisher & Developer the problems and modifications that they as a community think would best benefit all the mentioned parties, to that end GR.net with it's members have set their goals.

I for one am disappointed in the fact (which has been evident) that the developer has been excluded from interacting in this circle of information in the manner of responding to questions, ideas and developments regarding issues that may exist in the product.

During the post development part of GR:AW1 the communication has lead to the development of numerous fixes, modifications and improvements that all of the community appreciated and benefited from, one being Ubisoft. Ubisoft benefits because the success of the first title brings a greater audience and in doing so leads to more sales and a greater awareness of Ubisoft to the public.

By cutting the communication loop, this can only lead to mistrust and rumour which in turn will eventually lead to loss of sales as the word spreads on how support for titles are shrouded in a mist of misinformation.

I do hope Ubi think about the situation that will develop if the developer is left out in the cold from the community and the negative impact this in turn will have.

Best Regards

viii

viiiper2006 Ubi forums.

P.s. I suggest that serveral or all the posts be sent to Ubisoft PR department head to show them what is happening, it is rare that the left hand knows what the right hand is doing.

[Bota:16]

I didn't think UBI could get any lower, but I guess they can. I just wanna say thanks to the people at GRIN for doing what very few developers do and that is communicating with the people that buy and play their game. After Lockdown and Vegas my biggest hang up about buying GRAW 2 was that it had UBI's name on the box, but since GRIN has been so great to this community I felt that it out weighed my bad feelings towards UBI and had planned on purchasing it at release. Not so sure anymore. I honestly feel sorry for GRIN at the moment, I really hope UBI reconsiders this stupid idea that 2 way communication is a bad idea. Just when I thought UBI might be on my good side again they go and pull something like this. When in doubt leave it up to UBI to ruin a good thing.

I can honestly say that if it weren't for GRIN being on these forums the Ghost Recon series would in the same boat as the Splinter Cell and Rainbow Six series and that is all but dead on PC. UBI please reconsider.

Edited July 14, 2007 by Bota:16

[ARDelta]

I thought maybe the recent lack of Grin posts was self-imposed because they were trying very hard to focus on finishing up the last minute pre-launch activities before taking in new problems. But, it seems this is not the case. I understand that Ubisoft may be concerned about the accidental release of incorrect information, but let me assure them that we know mistakes happen and comments are misinterpreted. Heck, Ubisoft's official releases are confusing and misleading enough!

As others have pointed out, Grin's participation in these forums can only improve the game. Plus it's free publicity!

I urge Ubisoft, to remove the gag order.

To Grin:

Thanks for all your efforts and dedication. Thanks for listening and responding to feedback and suggestions both good and bad. Furthermore, thanks for doing all of this in a fun and professional manner!

Quick... anonymous forum accounts for all Grinners.

[Strapt]

I liked the fact that GRIN came here and took notice of what was being said, we were lucky they did.

But the fact that we're still here after the GR2 fiasco when we got no news at all means that Ubi know they can do it and we'll well still be here anyway. Don't you think? If they're stupid enough to gag the people who kept us hopeful, then that's their descision. All we can do is say thanks to GRIN (as we always do ) for taking the time to talk to us. I know for a fact that I won't be buying that new ubi game that people were talking about, that's the only way I can strike back. Everything else is just talk. Neither will a be buying GRAW3 if its made, unless we get the same kind of feedback that have given us. GRIN have set a new standard, gagging them will be to the detriment of the community.