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my biggest worry.......


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Lets put this into prospective.

To have what you would like would come at a price a big one.

Longer development time being the biggest, more cost, more staff.

You cant have your cake and eat it, I remember Serellan posting here a comment a while back it went something like this.

It would be impossible to make a game that offers everyone every thing or words to that effect.

It is just not possible to have all you want in a game, in my very humble opionion the loadout is fine I can use a least a dozen weapons and I know who are the bad guys for me that covers it, later down the line maybe a couple of mods.

Some of you mentioned about the weapons not being in there I am sure if time was available they would be, but no the time has been well spent on imroving the engine and game play which is what was needed and they have added more game types.

One of the BPR guys mentioned he could not understand this post I must admit I agree there are far more importent things to be done than make various kits a hoards of weapons.

You guys need to understand the console version has some where in the region of 300 people working on it, where Grin has as far as I can remember about 75 to 90 correct me if Im wrong.

So time is the problem, this is why the game will be shiped with moding tools that will be far superior than graw 1 as has been said by Grin themselves.

I think in reality SOF teams wear much the same kit any way.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymtEQypLEAQ

Edited by Colin
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Being able to customize my guy as far as looks go is at the bottom of my list of things needed in a game. Sure it sounds cool but in reality wouldn't a team like the Ghosts wear the same unis and for the most part equipment. I would much rather be sure stuff like remote admin, SADS and anti-cheat would be impelmented before cosmetic customization of the players.

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Being able to customize my guy as far as looks go is at the bottom of my list of things needed in a game. Sure it sounds cool but in reality wouldn't a team like the Ghosts wear the same unis and for the most part equipment. I would much rather be sure stuff like remote admin, SADS and anti-cheat would be impelmented before cosmetic customization of the players.

here here :yes:

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ironically enough, if GRIN were to scratch every little itch posted on this forum today and magically satisfy everyone - by next week there'd be twice as many suggestions, complaints and threats of "passing" on the game 'cuz it's missing something critical. get a life, people.

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Hmmm.

Well firstly even though I would agree it was just eye candy and had no real bearing on gameplay it appears that people playing these games do appreciate being able to play "dress up" hence it's not a total waste of time.

I'd also say that authenticity was achievable without necessarily putting a lot of extra time into coding hundreds of different permutations. It would just be a case of modelling the kind of gear actually in use (a la GR2) instead of the sci-fi stuff.

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I think a few people are confusing the game term "skin" with texture map or model. When dealing with rigging, skinning can refer to actually binding the points to the control skeleton depending on which program you are using.

Swapping out textures or "skins" is easy enough, but you can't force a very unique model to look like something else with texture maps alone. The GRAW soldiers are very unique looking, so to actually make new uniforms and gear or helmets or whatever, would require a good deal of modeling, setting up UV coordinates, texture painting, and binding it to the grin setup. It would be time consuming at the very least.

As for customizing characters, I think what's happening is that many people do not like the way the ghosts look from the get go. Their distinguishing features aren't very broad at all and they pretty much look identical. People think, well how bout some options then? We're on game 2 here and we still have pretty much the same model for each soldier and if people don't like the way that looks already, then they will definetly want to see something different. On a computer that becomes even worse because not only do they look the same, but the move identical too.

If they looked more like real soldiers and less like space-men, I think you'd see this complaint far less.

I don't think it's really a deal breaker, as I already said, and I don't like to give Grin a hard time, but some of you seem to forget that they are getting paid to make this game. It's not some free mod that they are doing for fun. Not only that, but didn't they share many assets with the ubi/redstorm teams? I don't think it would be that difficult for them to get a hold of some of the mp models already textured and uv'd and convert them to their engine. Not all 70-90 people can be coding the engine at all times.

Edited by Brettzies
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Hmmm.

Well firstly even though I would agree it was just eye candy and had no real bearing on gameplay it appears that people playing these games do appreciate being able to play "dress up" hence it's not a total waste of time.

I'd also say that authenticity was achievable without necessarily putting a lot of extra time into coding hundreds of different permutations. It would just be a case of modelling the kind of gear actually in use (a la GR2) instead of the sci-fi stuff.

The game does take place in the future and some of the stuff in the game is being tested my the US military particularly something similar to the Cross Com that's in GRAW.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology...ws/4215749.html

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Hmmm.

Well firstly even though I would agree it was just eye candy and had no real bearing on gameplay it appears that people playing these games do appreciate being able to play "dress up" hence it's not a total waste of time.

I'd also say that authenticity was achievable without necessarily putting a lot of extra time into coding hundreds of different permutations. It would just be a case of modelling the kind of gear actually in use (a la GR2) instead of the sci-fi stuff.

The game does take place in the future and some of the stuff in the game is being tested my the US military particularly something similar to the Cross Com that's in GRAW.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology...ws/4215749.html

Landwarrior has been in the works ten years . It isn't here yet and GRAW isn't set 10 years from now.

Future Force Warrior is probably closer to what they wanted to portray but it still doesn't convince. This is not the first game to feature a real time satelite view or UAV footage. They could just give you a PDA for all that and have it half convincing :/

Edited by spm1138
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Okay, since this subject has popped up again, I guess I'll give it a go again:

GRAW1 or 2 is not, repeat NOT, an accurate description of what spec ops/infantry gear will look like in 2013, 2014 or any other time in the foreseeable near future.

It is a fictional design, loosely based on technology currently being tested by the US Army.

I know the PR talks a lot about how info directly from the US Army has been carefully researched and all that. But if you think GRAW carefully, pound-for-pound, simulates future US infantry gear, you're seriously mistaken.

The GRAW series includes some generic elements of "future warfare", notably UAV's and the ability for individual soldiers to direct artillery and airstrikes. But other than that the "future warfare" aspect is primarily cosmetic, notably in the Multicam uniforms of the Ghosts.

The CrossCom (and in particular the NarCom) is, apart from the use of helmet-mounted displays, a complete fabrication, giving standard FPS elements (crosshair, health & ammo status, squad control, maps e.c.t.) a futuristic look. And no, you're not going to see full 3D, realtime tracking of friend and foe (i.e. the blue and red diamonds) anytime soon.

The GRAW series is in many ways a traditional squad-based first person shooter, and the futuristic elements doesn't really affect the game (notably gameplay) beyond cosmetics.

I'm not saying this is particularly right or wrong. I'm just saying that it isn't particularly realistic, and using the GRAW series as a measure of infantry warfare in the near future is a huge mistake.

Respectfully

krise madsen

Edited by krise madsen
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Hmmm.

Well firstly even though I would agree it was just eye candy and had no real bearing on gameplay it appears that people playing these games do appreciate being able to play "dress up" hence it's not a total waste of time.

I'd also say that authenticity was achievable without necessarily putting a lot of extra time into coding hundreds of different permutations. It would just be a case of modelling the kind of gear actually in use (a la GR2) instead of the sci-fi stuff.

The game does take place in the future and some of the stuff in the game is being tested my the US military particularly something similar to the Cross Com that's in GRAW.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology...ws/4215749.html

Landwarrior has been in the works ten years . It isn't here yet and GRAW isn't set 10 years from now.

Future Force Warrior is probably closer to what they wanted to portray but it still doesn't convince. This is not the first game to feature a real time satelite view or UAV footage. They could just give you a PDA for all that and have it half convincing :/

Well, for real-time graphic intel, there's always Blue Force Tracker- or FBCB2. Same thing. It's no big secret, and in fact has been in use with CONVENTIONAL forces for YEARS in some form or another. Being that there are (and have been for a while now) handheld BFT units out there roughly the size of the PLGR (Precision Lightweight GPS Receiver), which also cover the whole GPS role too, and I bought an iPAQ a year and a half ago that does the GPS thing more accurately (position, heading, groundspeed, etc.) than the last PLGR version I was really familiar with, and then the DAGR came out for use with vehicle-mounted BFT kits, blahblahblah...

Point being that the ability to provide realtime intel to SOF in the field (and likewise collect and consolidate their intel as well) with handheld devices already exists, and has for some time. If it's not already out there, it should only be a couple more years until something the size of a Motorola RAZR v3 could handle all those duties, perhaps even with real satellite/UAV/aerial imaging. Honestly, for as simple as the hardware and software are by today's standards, I wouldn't be surprised if the requisiste knonwledge and abilities exist in this community to make just such a product a reality.

Though my iPAQ was a piece of crap...

But I could receive SMS text in Afghanistan on a Cingular US account with it. When it worked.

As for the rest of the infantry gear, I'm not even infantry and I'm getting issued SOME sort fo new, swoopy-cool vest soon. I've SEEN the vests from GRAW in use here in Afghanistan. With my own two eyes. Yes, THESE two. The SCAR is a reality. Money to procure that weapons system started flowing out of the US Taxpayer's pockets in FY 2005 or 2006. The secret-squirrel gear like helmet cameras (anyone remember the first year of the World LEague of American Football?) aren't in the field yet that I'm aware of, though they ARE used here and there by SWAT-types in some form or another. Not a far cry from GRAW. The REAL trick is the overlayed imaging, and the transition in realtime of video feed to wireframe. THAT would be the trick, though I imagine it's mostly a software trick. (CrossCom OS version incompatable with your satellite uplink controller software? Gettin' ya down? Welcome to the GRAWtrix, buddy)

It is most certainly NOT an accurate depiction of INFANTRY combat, and never was. It's not supposed to be. It IS a decent speculation of what MAY be the future of special warfare, adapted for today's short-attention-span youth and young adults. After all, if something doesn't either explode or splatter every ten seconds, we gamers lose interest. (How else did HALO sell two copies or more?) IRL, if nothing ever blows up or blows us up, it's been a good day. We can call home and tell Mama all about it. THAT is success, but it won't sell a single copy at EB Games...

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The REAL trick is the overlayed imaging, and the transition in realtime of video feed to wireframe. THAT would be the trick, though I imagine it's mostly a software trick. (CrossCom OS version incompatable with your satellite uplink controller software? Gettin' ya down? Welcome to the GRAWtrix, buddy)

Well you have got things like Steve Mann's eyetap concept.

I believe he's currently using his to overlay advertisements with white boxes.

It's sort of do-able in concept, but that's been the case with wearable PCs and AR for years :D

Allegedly eyetaps will one day be just another bit of Blue Tooth Smartphone interfacery. Allegedly.

Edited by spm1138
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Lets put this into prospective.

To have what you would like would come at a price a big one.

Longer development time being the biggest, more cost, more staff.

You cant have your cake and eat it, I remember Serellan posting here a comment a while back it went something like this.

It would be impossible to make a game that offers everyone every thing or words to that effect.

It is just not possible to have all you want in a game, in my very humble opionion the loadout is fine I can use a least a dozen weapons and I know who are the bad guys for me that covers it, later down the line maybe a couple of mods.

Some of you mentioned about the weapons not being in there I am sure if time was available they would be, but no the time has been well spent on imroving the engine and game play which is what was needed and they have added more game types.

One of the BPR guys mentioned he could not understand this post I must admit I agree there are far more importent things to be done than make various kits a hoards of weapons.

You guys need to understand the console version has some where in the region of 300 people working on it, where Grin has as far as I can remember about 75 to 90 correct me if Im wrong.

So time is the problem, this is why the game will be shiped with moding tools that will be far superior than graw 1 as has been said by Grin themselves.

I think in reality SOF teams wear much the same kit any way.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymtEQypLEAQ

colin,

your video link is exactly what i'm talking about. some of the operators were wearing different camo and gear. GRIN could have at best made some SOF models for MP. we are only talking about models to choose from and if they did'nt have enough people for the job, a simple email to snowfella and brettzies would have been enough for those guys to add some quality work for the game. thanks for the video link, it brought back memories of my time in SOF support and when i was in afghanistan. i can assure you that we did not wear the same gear or uniforms when we went outside the wire. some guys even wore their bdu's every now and then. all i'm saying is that we know GRAW is set in the future, but more chr models should have been made because GRAW 2 is looking still like GRAW 1, and i see nothing yet to make me want to drop another $40-$50 bucks.

i know that i brought up the 360 version, but that was for a reason. the PC game is better because of the tactical options provided, but the 360 got it right with the customization aspect of the game and that is where GRIN is failing the PC game. GRIN has still done a good job, but i'll be honest with you. if GRIN would have just added more weapons ,chr models for SP and MP, and some optimization to the game engine, i would buy it in a heartbeat. the first game was very good (the specs a bit too high, but i got a new rig now), but it lacked substance. they just needed to add more stuff to the game (like weapons and chr models) and i think that their priorities were wrong this time around.

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Replying to my biggest worry.......

...is that the "Bringing the recon back to Ghost Recon" quote was just a marketing slogan, or worse, the punchline of someones bad joke.

Still unsure how to classify :AW2; is it a new game or an expansion, it's kind of hard to tell given...

No new character models (to accurately represent what equipment they are carrying), no wound penalty (obvious), no weather conditions (unless you're on the island), no compatibility w/:AW (?) Same old CQB playing field (snipers need not apply), same clipping objects (now you see the dumpster, now you don't), same cluttered HUD, same pathfinding issues, etc., etc.

It would have been nice if they had concentrated more on the basics and fixed some of the core elements before spending resources hanging on even more of the HALO-type gimmicks.

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I don't think Grin know what to give us in the way of modding,mod tools and the like. when you compress the game data with everything about the game into a bundle file "as-is", then you must extract that bundle, insert your items, vehiles, weapons and sounds etc, THEN you must rebundle it and make your bundle available for download so everyone can be on the same sheet of music. otherwise..so long GRAW2 been nice knowing ya!

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