Spawn Rapers

[IrishStout]

Im a match player (no respawns). I consider any other form of play training, or just fun (so being killed won't upset me). I don't tend to spawn kill, but on unlimited death servers it is hard not to not head for the spawn. If you know where a player is going to appear from its just common sense to hold that area. I find it a little unfair that clans who band spawn killing, often them selves snipe/camp outside spawns, let an opposing player get 1-2 meters off the spawn before killing them then claim it as a valid kill.

What about people who hide in their own spawns and snipe, then claim "you shot at me 1st". Its impossible and unfair to force people to play a certain way. I think its a case of peoples pride being hurt, more than trying to ref a game. Just remember "don't get mad, get even".

I have to say.. good post if I do not say so myself..

[Odedge]

IMO, the solution would be to create a spawn area in TDM where the players are invulnerable while also unable to shoot out . Once they leave that area they become vulnerable and able to defend themselves. It's the only way to balance both sides to prevent a camper from staying in spawn and shooting out of it and getting free kills. Of course then the spawn area MUST be clearly defined so there is no confusion regarding if you or someone else are/is in or out of the spawn.

I hate spawn camping/killing as it removes the whole idea of it being a game (where both sides participate). I thought that automatically killing the spawn killer would be the best idea, until this post. I think this would be very balanced for both sides. I also think it should be a server option.

But if the spawn invincibility time is increased and admins do a good job at running their servers, it should be less of a problem. I actually have no problem with a server having this rule (if it's clearly stated), but in a demo, we should be trying out the game.

[FI_FlimFlam]

The biggest problem comes in what each server or even individual clan's members consider the "spawn area". This was a problem with GRAW and you would run into different interpretations as to what the spawn areas were depending on which server you were on or even which players were on the same server. It's quite often very arbitrary and can fluctuate wildly.

I don't have a problem with admins running their servers, it's just that the current problem leads to more confusion for players who play on different servers often. It's also indicative that there is a problem with this. I do like what GRIN has implemented and hope it will make a difference to cut down the spawn raping abuse some players like to do.

[JasonFMX]

I spent 30 minutes lastnight getting spawn raped by the GHOST clan. all they did was have one guy raped the hell out of our team while their buddies came up from all sides. 30 damn minutes.

LMAO they took turns pulling a train on ya did they ? Thats the funniest damn thing I saw all day.

Seriously, you want to know what the biggest problem with getting spawn raped is ? Theres two problems that need to be solved in order to lessen the bitching. ( we all know it will never totally stop )

1. People need to play as a team. I find it very comical its called TEAM death match and everyones out for themselves. All you have to do is say "theres a guy spawn raping up on the rock, take him out Joe". But that never happens. I depsise playing on Xbox Live but I must say that 99% of the people that play on there have mics so there is almost always team play going on and I have to admit I had some of the best Versus playing on Rainbow Six Vegas on XBOX live. I played the freaking crap out of that game. I got my rank up to Lt. Colonel with 2 red bars full.

2. As someone else mentioned, there needs to be more physical barriers preventing raping and sniping into spawns. Also, the invulnerability needs to be increased by 30% 50% , enough time to figure out where its coming from. Anything else like killing the spawn raper is unfair because you always have situations like what was mentioned before.. where your running around and stumble into someone who just spawned. The spawner should be rewarded/ punished in no way and the spawn killer should be rewarded/punished in no way.

You have to take a compramise from everyone because you'll never 100% resolve it for everyone. Its like trying to figure out the end of pi , it will go n forever 3.141592****************************(infinite).

I have spoken.

[reLapse]

Just make respawns random for those who play on servers with respawns.

Personally I don't like unlimited respawns and I will be glad when the game goes retail and there will be more no respawn and limited respawn servers up.

I played GR and i liked the server that had no respawns, the tdm ones that gave the team limited spawns not each player and I dm ones where everyone had limited spawns.

The limited spawn servers in GR usually gave no more than 3-5 team/player respawns and it was fine.

On the USA 3 spawns demo servers there is usually next to no spawn campers except for one or two rotten eggs who get dealt with quickly.

I recall matching in GR with match setting for no respawns and others for limited team respawns and both are fine setups.

Edited June 16, 2007 by reLapse

[GHOST_Sup]

I spent 30 minutes lastnight getting spawn raped by the GHOST clan. all they did was have one guy raped the hell out of our team while their buddies came up from all sides. 30 damn minutes. i can see once in awhile you get one but not when you pursue the ideology of just sitting in an enemies spawn.

and they have no bad conscience about it either.

Papa, first off you're a good player. You had a crappy team that's all. We weren't intentionally spawn camping, but there comes a point where there's nothing to do. Do we draw a line in the sand in the middle of the map and say "do not cross, give the other team a fighting chance?" Absolutley not, I want your blood and I'm coming to get it.

I've been in the same situation as you Papa, and I generally make the best of it. I usually get out of the spawn and drop a couple and give my team a chance to go on. The problem with lastnight was you had a really crappy team that would rather camp on a hill and acrue kills than helping the team out. You have my respect though, we were on vent saying "kill Papa that SOB!" (because you were one of 2 on your team that was doing anything") Incedentally, there was a guy on that went by the name of grandpappy or something like that... he was good too, any relation?

I hope there are no hard feelings. We were drinking beer and just having fun on a pub server.

Edited June 17, 2007 by GHOST_Sup

[Nutlink]

Or people could just start playing no respawn rounds. I've never understood the point of multiple respawns in games that claim to have some semblance of realism.

[reLapse]

No offense to anyone here but most of you have this delusional view that teamwork exists or should exist in pub servers.

It's a bunch of random people and the only team work you're going to see is between people who happen to know each other who may be on voice comms together.

Or people could just start playing no respawn rounds. I've never understood the point of multiple respawns in games that claim to have some semblance of realism.

Even though I enjoy no respawns I also enjoy limited respawns because it does level the playing field on some servers.

It sucks ass if you're moving about and some guy that has been sitting in the one spot since the moment the round started kills you.

That's the reasoning behind alot of people favoring limited respawns aside from having to wait.

Camping is a tactic and it's part of a game but I hate being nailed by one on no respawn servers because if they have a lead ass and don't move it's usually because they lack the skill to move around the map and maintain kills without dying.

No one says that you have t run around the map like a chicken with it's head cut off but staying still because you don't want to die, you may aswell not play the game if you can't get the hang of moving and killing.

When I used to play GR on the no respawn servers I was constantly moving and I rarely died, same goes for most other games I've played that didn't support respawning.

People just need to take chances and improve their gameplay, if everyone did that then more people would favor no respawns.

That being said if it's down to a 1v4, pitch a ######' tent son!

Edited June 16, 2007 by reLapse

[Nutlink]

I hate to use this as an example, but Counter-Strike. 1 spawn for the maps you have to drop the bomb. It's similar to ASvR, but if they were forced to move due to time limits or something it wouldn't be much of a problem I would think. At least in my experience it hasn't been. Then again, assuming we can make custom gametypes I'm sure that'll be one on the list, along with standard CTF and such (hopefully).

[reLapse]

CS doesn't have respawns so...

[Nutlink]

That was my point.

[TheVoodoo]

if in AvR would be no respawn for assault, the whole idea of this gamemode would be ruined!

it would be unfair that the ghosts can tag enemys and have better loadouts than the assaults.

Nobody (including me) would care about completing the objectives. Everyone would go out and hunt the other team to its death.

If that change would be made, i would not be interested in GRAW 2 anymore, cause only the new AvR gamemode is the great innovation in multiplayer of GRAW2.

AvR is perfect as it is!

But maybe the assault team should get additional score if the stay in close range to the AA vehicles to defend. cause anyone on pubs is running elsewhere to hunt the ghosts, while other ghosts are planting C4.

To Teamplay:

Some stupid ghosts are sniping the assaults from ass of world, where they're never be a threat, just to let them spawn in front of other ghost-teammates, where those get shot.

LEAVE TAGGED ENEMYS WHICH DO NOT THREAT YOURSELF OR OTHER TEAMMATES ALIVE TO TRACK THEIR MOVES AND AVOID THEM.

Its more important to know the enemy is on other side of map while im planting my c4 as i dont know where it will spawn when ive killed him!

Edited June 16, 2007 by TheVoodoo

[JASGripen]

if in AvR would be no respawn for assault, the whole idea of this gamemode would be ruined!

it would be unfair that the ghosts can tag enemys and have better loadouts than the assaults.

Nobody (including me) would care about completing the objectives. Everyone would go out and hunt the other team to its death.

If that change would be made, i would not be interested in GRAW 2 anymore, cause only the new AvR gamemode is the great innovation in multiplayer of GRAW2.

AvR is perfect as it is!

But maybe the assault team should get additional score if the stay in close range to the AA vehicles to defend. cause anyone on pubs is running elsewhere to hunt the ghosts, while other ghosts are planting C4.

To Teamplay:

Some stupid ghosts are sniping the assaults from ass of world, where they're never be a threat, just to let them spawn in front of other ghost-teammates, where those get shot.

LEAVE TAGGED ENEMYS WHICH DO NOT THREAT YOURSELF OR OTHER TEAMMATES ALIVE TO TRACK THEIR MOVES AND AVOID THEM.

Its more important to know the enemy is on other side of map while im planting my c4 as i dont know where it will spawn when ive killed him!

I agree with most of what you say. But when it comes to reward for defending planting Ghost, see this thread:

http://www.ghostrecon.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=44152

[reLapse]

That was my point.

CS is a totally different type of game and [GR] was fine with how it was setup.

I hate repeating myself but it seems I must..

Plenty of ladders allowed for limited team respawns in matching aswell as no respawns and both were very popular styles.

The only place where respawns become a problem is in pubs IMO because I honestly don't see many clans spawn raping another clan in a match as it will not only defeat the purpose of the gameplay and matching but will also make said clan look like noobs.

You match another clan to pit your guys against theirs to achieve a win and to rape them in their spawn defeats the purpose all together really.

I see ladders having rules against it, it makes sense, and I see the community frowning on those that do it.

Edited June 16, 2007 by reLapse

[JASGripen]

Strange, in those ladders I know of spawn rape is perfectly legal. In a match it is gloves off, and no dubious rules which you really should need a referee for.

But you seldom see Spawn rape in a match as you don't get that type of leverage on other clans, or because it is a HH setting were you don't primarily is after eradication of the other clan. Or because many match is no respawn, which solves all such problems about spawn rape.

With that said, one must respect the server's rules, if spawn rape is prohibited then it is.

[Papa6]

I spent 30 minutes lastnight getting spawn raped by the GHOST clan. all they did was have one guy raped the hell out of our team while their buddies came up from all sides. 30 damn minutes. i can see once in awhile you get one but not when you pursue the ideology of just sitting in an enemies spawn.

and they have no bad conscience about it either.

Papa, first off you're a good player. You had a crappy team that's all. We weren't intentially spawn camping, but there comes a point where there's nothing to do. Do we draw a line in the sand in the middle of the map and say "do not cross, give the other team a fighting chance?" Absolutley not, I want your blood and I'm coming to get it.

I've been in the same situation as you Papa, and I generally make the best of it. I usually get out of the spawn and drop a couple and give my team a chance to go on. The problem with lastnight was you had a really crappy team that would rather camp on a hill and acrue kills than helping the team out. You have my respect though, we were on vent saying "kill Papa that SOB!" (because you were one of 2 on your team that was doing anything") Incedentally, there was a guy on that went by the name of grandpappy or something like that... he was good too, any relation?

I hope there are no hard feelings. We were drinking beer and just having fun on a pub server.

It makes playing rather crappy. atleast I gave you guys a fight. but back off a bit and you may find that there are alot of good players who'd be happy to play against you guys. I refrain from going up to spawns. that's not my gig. I enjoy an opportunity to allow my opponent to get out there to sneek and peek.

[WhiteKnight77]

Spawn camping has been a problem with the whole GR series. Everyone wants spawns to be included as an option, yet complain when spawn raped. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Honestly, I prefer no respawn games over respawn games (unless playing an arcade gametype like AT Wars).

The only other option to stop spawn camping and raping is to remove the respawn option altogether so people actually have to work together to do something and not just wait for someone to spawn to get a fast kill.

[sgt.hoot]

what i mean is if u shoot someone in there spawn u die they dont and they get the equivelent to 1 kill

also like on bf 1942 u can have a base bubble, if you get too close to the spawn u die automatically no matter if u have god mode or not

Edited June 16, 2007 by sgt.hoot

[reLapse]

Random repsawns is the way to go, worked for GR and it will work with this for the purposes removing spawn raping in pubs and any ladders that may support limited respawns like some did back in the day.

I think it's totally fair to force servers into having two options, no respawns and random respawns and then they can set the number of respawns according to their own neeeds.

Every game I've played competitively has been a game with no respawns except for the ladders I was involved in for GR but I'd like a bit of variety to my matches.

I want to be able to compete in the no respawn ladders and the limited respawn ladders just to keep it fresh.

So I hope some ladders will offer a limited respawn system should it become available to us.

Edited June 16, 2007 by reLapse

[Cangaroo.TNT]

RvA has random respawn on the Rebel side. I wonder if it can be incorporated into other game modes as well.

Edited June 16, 2007 by Cangaroo.TNT

[Nutlink]

That was my point.

CS is a totally different type of game and [GR] was fine with how it was setup.

I hate repeating myself but it seems I must..

Plenty of ladders allowed for limited team respawns in matching aswell as no respawns and both were very popular styles.

The only place where respawns become a problem is in pubs IMO because I honestly don't see many clans spawn raping another clan in a match as it will not only defeat the purpose of the gameplay and matching but will also make said clan look like noobs.

You match another clan to pit your guys against theirs to achieve a win and to rape them in their spawn defeats the purpose all together really.

I see ladders having rules against it, it makes sense, and I see the community frowning on those that do it.

And since I don't care about ladders or leagues, that doesn't apply to me. In pubs people complain about spawn raping, and the logical solution is that if you cannot spawn then you cannot be raped. Simple as that.

[reLapse]

In pubs people complain about spawn raping, and the logical solution is that if you cannot spawn then you cannot be raped.

If someones cheats can't be caught then they should cheat away, sticks to your logic and is just as silly as your comment.

I join a server to play and seeing as there is a lack of good demo servers I don't exactly have the luxury of leaving and finding another server and sitting, waiting for spawn rapers to stop just wastes my time.

It would be better if for retail they came up with a method to stop it and IMO the best way is to randomize spawns but by the time retail is out I will mostly be playing on no respawn servers but not everyone will.

Edited June 16, 2007 by reLapse

[sgt.hoot]

i bet all it is is just a liiiitle xml file i will look into it 2morrow..i just moved but im probobly the only 1 with free time here so i might be a little longer if any1 does want to try editing look in u_multiplayer or something..............

[Odedge]

I played a lot of Rainbow Six: Ravenshield which was a no respawn game. There is a place for this type of game and at times, it was fun to play. The maps were much smaller and the average round was 4 minutes. But there are also problems with this type of game, especially with the open map in the demo.

There are many times when I will die for no apparent reason (I was probably killed with a "headshooooot"). I have also done this to other people. There can be too many angles of attack to protect yourself.

The other problem is that is slows down gameplay too much. I am not a run n' gunner, nor do I like to play similulators. I find the current gameplay in the demo a nice balance between the two. You can run around, if you want or you take it slow or camp. The choice is yours!

Many people don't want to watch a game, they want to play. That is why TDM with unlimited respawns is a good option. There just needs to be a reasonable chance for you to fight when you spawn in. If the invincibility was higher, this would help out a lot.

As for working as a team, how is the average person suppose to do that in this game. There is no built in VOIP. There is no prerecorded messages (for example: "Clear", "Tango Spotted", "I got your back"), and you can't spot enemies for your team mates (I suggest a static dot on the minimap, not a diamond like in RvA).

I will normally play this game with freinds on TS, but I would also like to opportunity to play with random people (like I can in BF 2) with some level of team work, but the game doesn't offer that.

[GHOST_Sup]

It makes playing rather crappy. atleast I gave you guys a fight. but back off a bit and you may find that there are alot of good players who'd be happy to play against you guys. I refrain from going up to spawns. that's not my gig. I enjoy an opportunity to allow my opponent to get out there to sneek and peek.

Back off to where Papa? Why were we even close to your spawn in the first place? Our whole tactic was send 2 left, 2 right and cover middle. BTW, there were only 2 GHOST's even in the server, so it wasn't the "whole" GHOST clan. Furthermore, I personally was never at your spawn, I was around it. It will always be the nature of the beast so get used to it.

I would rather do away with re-spawning all together.

Edited June 16, 2007 by GHOST_Sup