Your thoughts on UBI Games?

[GRIN_Wolfsong]

EDIT: No need for this post. I forgot to read the 2nd page. hehe

Edited April 27, 2007 by Wolfsong

[Stormin]

No offense Stormin but SHIV was terrible on release. The "patch" (v1.1) introduced more bugs than it fixed, it should have been delayed for at least two weeks if not a month! v1.2 fixed some stuff but the escort AI is still stupid (try GWX 1.03 in SHIII and you will know what I mean) and theres still a host of things that don't even work. It didn't even have FSAA until 1.2 and it was stuck ad 1024x768 so looked horrible.

Yes, I understand the particulars before the 1.2 patch... But it is getting better... No game is outstanding out of the box... Then again, I'm relatively new to the sub sims... I didn't get into SH3 all that much... Given time, it will get better..

[Brettzies]

UBI has "published" some great games over the years, but I'm not sure they've made any great games themselves. I guess RvS is close and the new Prince of Persia series, the original Splinter Cell - those were done by ubi divisions I think? But, they, like most big publishers, have crossed the line into Game Fatigue for almost every title they have.

I heard this term a few years ago. Basically, it's when a publisher keeps putting out sequels with very little improvement or innovation. They also come at a very fast rate. Players become tired of keeping up or even just tired of the same old thing. Prince of Persia and Splinter Cell come to mind, with GRAW following suit. Each version probably improves on the last, but they are more like new episodes then actual new games. I mean, aside from graphics, how different is SC1 to SC4? The Need for Speed seriers, Call of Duty, etc. Dosen't mean all the sequels are bad, just easy to get tired of them quickly.

The first GRAWx360 was somewhat innovative for a console, but GRAW2 is pretty much just more of the same. It is an improvement in the sp part, but short. And it's out less then a year removed from the first one? Seems like the games industry, especially the conosle part, has settled into this rinse and repeat if a title is even marginally successful - and it better be out within a year of the first one. They really aren't taking their time. There are exceptions of course, in both PC and console, but it feels like the overall push is to get things out as fast as possible once you've established your base.

[GRIN_Wolfsong]

' date='Apr 25 2007, 11:10 PM' post='462481']

GRAW 360 = 1000 manhours

GRAW PS3 = 1000 manhours

GRAW PSP = 1000 manhours

GRAW Wii - 1000 manhours

GRAW PC = 1500? 2000? 3000?

Erh? You think the 360 version took a little over 4 months for 1 person to do?

I would guess it's more likely close to 90000-100000 manhours on the 360 version.

Maybe 15000 for the conversion to PS3, it's easy as it can handle more and you don't have to reduce things, it's the code the interact with the hardware that would take the most time.

Conversion to Wii would take longer due the the large difference in hardware from the 360, all graphics would need to be looked over and reduced and the code would have to be optimized much more and maybe features dropped as a result of that.

PC version is probably closer to 130000-150000 manhours.

[Cangaroo.TNT]

' date='Apr 25 2007, 11:10 PM' post='462481']

GRAW 360 = 1000 manhours

GRAW PS3 = 1000 manhours

GRAW PSP = 1000 manhours

GRAW Wii - 1000 manhours

GRAW PC = 1500? 2000? 3000?

Erh? You think the 360 version took a little over 4 months for 1 person to do?

I would guess it's more likely close to 90000-100000 manhours on the 360 version.

Maybe 15000 for the conversion to PS3, it's easy as it can handle more and you don't have to reduce things, it's the code the interact with the hardware that would take the most time.

Conversion to Wii would take longer due the the large difference in hardware from the 360, all graphics would need to be looked over and reduced and the code would have to be optimized much more and maybe features dropped as a result of that.

PC version is probably closer to 130000-150000 manhours.

Uhhhh. You completely missed my point, and must take me for an idiot. My point wasn't to reflect the actual hours required to develop the game. It was to compare relative development times for the different platforms.

Regardless, you proved my point. The time to develop GRAW 2 for all (current) consoles exceeds the time to develop GRAW 2 for all (current) PC's.

[roselan]

who cares about console or computers? That's the games that count.

got a 360 and play a bit of pro evo when friends are coming. Played some NFS too, with the same friend, and ho, gears of wars that was cool for like, 1 or 2 weeks.

Since supreme commander is out, I play that extensivly. I'm addicted like I was for Ghost Recon, Gran Turismo, age of empires, etc.

I did buy a 2000€ computer for gr:aw pc, and I played it like, 2 hours...

graw2? who gives a ######?

[Cangaroo.TNT]

Thanks for contributing absolutely nothing to the discussion. Everyone that read your post is now dumber for doing so.

[Tinker]

who cares about console or computers? That's the games that count.

got a 360 and play a bit of pro evo when friends are coming. Played some NFS too, with the same friend, and ho, gears of wars that was cool for like, 1 or 2 weeks.

Since supreme commander is out, I play that extensivly. I'm addicted like I was for Ghost Recon, Gran Turismo, age of empires, etc.

I did buy a 2000�‚� computer for gr:aw pc, and I played it like, 2 hours...

graw2? who gives a ######?

stop whinging and moaning, it makes you sick !

[DoG_Auslander]

Im glad to see the tone of this thread damning where the damning is due. It isnt the developers who futz up the games.

Its the publishers.

They rush, cut budget, make unkeepable promises without even checking on development. So the developers cut corners under pressure, cut content so a publisher can make a follow up, skimp on QA to meet the publishers insane release dates and so on. All under a threat of "shelving" your creation.

Mob tactics. Maybe thats a good term for what publisher put the houses through....

[Creatch]

Im glad to see the tone of this thread damning where the damning is due. It isnt the developers who futz up the games.

Its the publishers.

They rush, cut budget, make unkeepable promises without even checking on development. So the developers cut corners under pressure, cut content so a publisher can make a follow up, skimp on QA to meet the publishers insane release dates and so on.

Very true. And since we got basicly the same thing from the first...... well ...... I used to be amazed, now I'm just amused

Edited May 9, 2007 by Creatch

[pz3]

for reasons non disclosed....

I could care less about my mouse lag from not having a "powerfull enough" computer.

I know where my money is and isnt going this year.

Edited May 9, 2007 by pz3

[charliebrownau]

There seems to be a lot of people finaly releasing that a lot of games are crap on the PC these days.

Personaly not many games after 2000 on the PC are in my view worth supporting by

buying a legit copy .

In my view because these reasons:

Graphics before gameplay

Series changing

Programmers/dev team changing

Publishers to fault

Distrubutors to fault

Console to PC ports

Dumbing down FPS/RTS/RPG since no keyboard/mouse on consoles

Making games easier (dumbing them down) on PC and console for the new generation of gamers

More bugs in games after 2000 then before 2000.

Maybe what the gaming development teams need is an distrubutor and publisher company

that does not interfere with the products . Instead advertised them , market them ,

distribute them and leave the development and gameplay to the dev team/programmers

who came up with the game in the first idea ?

Sure their will be times were Distribution companies will have their own in house software

team to make games (eg EA Games)

What I think ruined the Ghost Recon and Rainbow Six series of games it went from PC FIRST

then PC port later done by mainly Red Storm to Ubisoft with new companys .

Now nothing against GRIN but this does seem to be a thing happening to series games lately

they get the rights sold to a new company or gets an new dev team . Do they even play the

prev games on PC and console ?

ID software seems to be a more let down as an gaming company then Ubisoft and EA put together

They did some great games , Commander Keen , Wolf 3d , Doom1/2 , Quake1/2

then it went down hill with Quake 3/4 and Doom3. Rage looks disapointing

these multi-platform games never work out as well as a single platform supported game.

Gaming has seem to take AGES to use IGA (In game ads) but instead of posters or banners

why cant they place things in the game that would be better and more like media advertising .

Eg you goto buy a gun and its xzy brand , you buy ammo , thats zyz brand . Your shoes

they might be Nike or some brand name , the car ties , they can be a brand name . From

a distance you dont seen the ads/brands , its up until you get close they become visable.

CO-OP PC gaming has declined as a lot of the gamers that knew how to play coop games

have now got to a age were they arnt gaming as much or dont want to buy more

RAM/CPU/Mobo/VideoCard/OS every 3-5 years .

The price of games (PC) has NOT appeared to change at all since the release of Doom1/Quake1

back in the 90's . You still get AU$90 to AU$100 priced game , AU$60 to AU$80 and cheaper

lower budget priced games and games that were AU$90 intialy now down to AU$09 to AU$25

but you do get LESS VALUE for PC games these days :

* Hardly any games with LAN coop

* Multiplayer LAN player amount reduced in a lot of series or droped (eg NFS)

* More games with more patch's needed (games before 2000 never needed that many patchs)

* Games after 2000 only support ONE graphic API - were it was common for pre 2000 games to support

software render (no acceration) , glide 3dFX , OpenGL and Direct3D

* Games are more focus'ing on BOTs and Single player story lines then Multi without bots or SP

* Games series seem to be just exp packs these days , not a new game to bring someone to the series

* more focus on music in MP and SP

* No ability to remove Single player from setup program any more

* No ability to install spawn copy from the setup program any more

* still a lot of games that should have the option to TURN OFF music not lower the volume to zero

I bought the GR1 when it first came out then gave it away after I sold my computer a few

years ago due to no time to use it and it needed an upgrade anyway.

I recently re bought a lot of pre 2000 games in the budget range games due to a lot of games

had got stolen and I had a Vodoo 1 3dfx stolen too ( I will get the GR1 gold pack when it comes

to Australia . I never did play the exp packs but played so many hours of GR1 coop.

Does the gaming scene need a global graphics and gaming API to make games easier to program ?

Instead of multi ports and mutliple changes ? Ditch Microsoft DirectX and support a new global

write once , multi platform gaming API ?

If anything can fix console games from not effecting PC games as much , its allowing PC and console

games to play together on LAN/online and use Keyboard/mouse CHOICE in FPS/RTS on consoles

and sure add the support for Joysticks/joypads on PC and see how many use it .

[GHOST_Sup]

Getting back to the original question, I think UBI is the absolute worst publisher out there. I don't think EA is really any better with the exception of their prized jewel of the BF series. I really wish that more gaming companies would follow suite with gaming companies such as Valve.

R6V had a lot of potential, yet they just threw their (and our) investment down the toilet. They simply do not care about the paying customer, plain and simple. Just rush out games so they can get their greedy hands on the money. With that said, I wouldn't of touched this game if GRIN had not of made such a loyal presense in these forums just because of the UBI logo. I'm satisfied with GRAW2 although I believe it will live a very small life if a map editor doesn't come out very soon. As it stands now there are a lot of empty servers and only a couple that are even populated at any given time in TDM.

[Cell]

' date='Apr 30 2007, 12:02 PM' post='463374']

Thanks for contributing absolutely nothing to the discussion. Everyone that read your post is now dumber for doing so.

Haha...I think I just regressed back to being an infant mentally.

[rookie]

Ubi nearly isn't releasing any quality products anymore. Everything is rushed to make some money and the skill-requirements drop down - stories, promotional work, make a connection with the characters you are playing - everything not or just slim existent in Ubi-games these days. Where is the motivation like RaSh or GR, where your characters improved their skills and sooner or later you had your favourite character - besides some intensive planning where the AI could complete a mission themselves and you standing at a spot just listening to their radio sounds. Had been a good feeling to see your planning work out. Also, non-existing anymore, because the new generation could not handle it ? Right - have low expectations in them and disappoint everyone that has requirements and expectations in a game.

R6V is a joke, 3rd person - blindfiring around corners - screaming at enemies and swear around. Nop, Rainbow only did that outside from missions - in a mission their are professional and it hurts to read there is an Add-On coming this fall to this game instead of spending time developing a game for the more challenging FPS gamers out there.

Since I don't know how GRAW 2 PC is doing in the sales and the previews I have no idea whether or not Ubi is dropping it for the PC and then GR finally is done.

Ubi dropped the quality in shooters about 90% in the last years due to the more and more coming success of consoles where challenging shooters simply aren't possibly, because of the lack of movement and key-configs - and most owners are younger(wait - I had been 12 when i played R6 for the first time - it wasn't that hard SO COME ON AND CHALLENGE THE NEW GENERATION).

Now all one can do that wants more then just firing his gun has to hope there are other publishers that want to deliver something for everyone. Here I am - waiting on the ArmA Add-On and [Operation Flashpoint: Dragon Rising] besides the most promising announced title Ground Branch. Still I miss new R6 and SWAT-titles in my collection and it somehow will always hurt not seeing their quality-comebacks.

[Papa6]

the problem with UBISOFT is that the current level of management and quality control just isn't there. face it. the most basic common denominator is that it's the people of the company as a whole. UBISOFT has absolutely NO scruples or morals. For if they DID, then the company would finally release quality made products. the basic defacto standard seems to be, push the crap out the door and we'll patch it if someone or a group find failure with it. as if patches will just make the people go away. what ever happened to the old days of when people took pride in what they made? reputation as a whole is a non issue as UBISOFT has no idea nor care to see what's going on.

ravenshield is proof of failure. that was the biggest example of a failure that I can think of. UBISOFT at that time truly showed us what they are. It got to a point where UBISOFT stopped responding. they got (probably) so frustrated with the unhappiness of their customers they just walked away and never looked back. If they NOW release a new title and it doesn't work, you'll NEVER hear anything but that a patch was/is released.

UBISOFT kicks all of the devs it hires or consumes(buys) in the knackers. UBISOFT bought the rights to the crytek1 engine..why? to try and HOPE they can develop their own cash cow. they saw crytek for what it was and wanted it. but will they be able to capitalize? no. UBIOSFT's motto appears to be, you want quality? try and buy it. UBISOFT sells PC games like Pizza's. they hire devs to bake pizza's(Games) and deliver, rather than look and see if the pizza's are worthy of their logo, after all, their logo goes on EVERY box.

as far as I'm concerned, UBISOFT is an island all it's own in an empty ocean. with no hope what so ever.

[Papa6]

Im glad to see the tone of this thread damning where the damning is due. It isnt the developers who futz up the games.

Its the publishers.

They rush, cut budget, make unkeepable promises without even checking on development. So the developers cut corners under pressure, cut content so a publisher can make a follow up, skimp on QA to meet the publishers insane release dates and so on. All under a threat of "shelving" your creation.

Mob tactics. Maybe thats a good term for what publisher put the houses through....

that's business as a whole. my dads friend once worked for a shipping company making promises he knew he couldn't keep. promising that the clients product will be at X location on x day at x time. he knew that it wouldn't be so.he said this using the companies name but, closing the deal is what it was about according to what I came to understand by his under tone. Closing the deal is what business is all about, that goes towards the salaries of employees etc with no thought about the consequences.

[Cangaroo.TNT]

^ As a business owner, I can agree that it is the case in some instances, but not all. Don't condem "business" because your dad's friend has no integrity.

Edited August 9, 2007 by Cangaroo.TNT

[mwgfghost]

I'm with McGhost. I think it's questionable. But if there's not a patch in the next few months, there's gonna be a lot of sore midgets from me punching em cause I WILL go on a midget punching tangent.

[Aracnid]

My thoughts are that game publishers seem to want to get it out there & fix what everyone complains about the most.

Unfortunately I do not think UBI are any better or worse than the next publisher.

I enjoyed RVS up to Vegas where they just ported a console game & poorly.

I like GRAW2 & believe it has potential and actually gives me some hope that good games still exist, still needs a patch or two but what game doesn't.

What else I like on this forum is there seems to be a lot of maturity in most posts & some good reading.

[kretzj]

One thing to be thankful for is that UBI is not the only company out there. There are new kids on the block comming out with the next bigger and better, and a few older companies comming out with there compitition.

I have seen some really cool things comming from a number of differant dev teams outside of UBI thank goodness.

Here is one I found that looks nice but we will have to wait and see how it comes along.

There is also a full editor comming with it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6Pc0PTJmzo&NR=1

Some very cutting edge stuff here

Lest we forget our friends over at Black Foot Studios and their upcoming (okay, not nearly soon enough) title Ground Branch... http://blackfootstudios.com/forums/ I believe THIS will be the next tactical sim product to get my hard-earned money, even if it is another year or so from delivery.

-john k

callsign threepoint

[charliebrownau]

Another good coop FPS tatical style game is Joint Operations

but like most software companys dont like talking to customers so they use a web forum

as a firewall between real contact .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Operati..._Typhoon_Rising

Some things JO has for it :

LAN and Online co-op

No single player (yes this is a bonus)

training missions (I liked training missions in pre 2000 games)

No console edition

Can control/use cars/trucks/helis/etc

Can control/use machine guns/weapon resources

No 500 meter distance limit

Works on Gf4mx 440se agp cards

Check points

Supports 64 players co-op on LAN

Supports 150 players co-op ONLINE

Respawn avail in coop (Online/LAN)

Australia skins/camo gear avail

Lots of weapons like pre 2000 R6/GR1 game

Medic class with Med packs : Enables medics to heal injured or fallen teammates.

Target designator : Enables snipers to spot and mark targets for destruction by mortars. (so much fun)

proper gui map editor program

all this in a game that came out in 2004

The exp pack came out in 2004 aswell ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Operations:_Escalation )

( Exp pack added Parachutes , new maps , moto bikes (OMFG They hoon)

NovaLogic company behind the game , but they are best known for the Delta Force series

that went console

In 2005, NovaLogic launched 'Delta Force: Black Hawk Down' for the Xbox, which allowed up to 50 players in a multiplayer game. This broke the record for the largest console multiplayer battles at the time

In 2005 Novalogic was fined $153,500 by the Business Software Alliance after an audit found they had unlicensed copies of software by Adobe, Apple, Autodesk, FileMaker, Macromedia, Microsoft and Symantec. The BSA found out after someone rang their piracy hotlin

Since then Novaworld has only releaed Joint ops bundle with has the JO and JOE cheaper , so its like an SE/GOLD

edition no news on any exp packs or JO2 .

[Cangaroo.TNT]

^ Novalogic is working on a new game based on The Unit. A public statement is due out in September.

[WhiteKnight77]

Funny you brought this thread back up. Earlier I was reading an editorial by a gamer over at GameSpot. This editorial is aimed at some Ubi games for the Nintendo DS that is apparently aimed at girls.

Check out what U1 has to say in the Imagine Disturbing Messages in Ubisoft Games editorial post. Seems Ubi is really messed up with all of it's games.

[Al-Cobra]

Whats are your thoughts on UBI developed games? Will you buy GRAW2 knowing what UBI has done to the games put out in the past? Will UBI change their ways? How will GRAW2 hold up?

/discuss

I'll continue to buy UBI games. I loved the R6 series and like what they are trying with GRAW even if I don't always like the execution. I find UBI to produce titles that are a bit more "adult" (perhaps because R6 was inspired by a book) than games like the Batlefield franchise though their stories could borrow something from the Call Of Duty titles.

I bought GRAW 2 to support a company who developed a game just for the PC crowd over just porting the console version. They also used software friendly to XP users and those titles are thinning as well. If UBI decides to get lazy and stick with console ports or fails to listen to and support the communities around their games, then I will jump ship.

So far, GRAW 2 shows a move in the right direction.