Hacksaww Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 http://www.pcgamer.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=22497 Does anyone agree? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutlink Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Completely. Vegas could have been fun, and while the coop aspect is great when you have 4 players, it just couldn't cut it. Adjust the weapons, revamp the AI (and lower the number of them), and make it less linear and the game would have been great. RIP Clark, Chavez, and Price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hockeystick Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 (edited) Completely. Vegas could have been fun, and while the coop aspect is great when you have 4 players, it just couldn't cut it. Adjust the weapons, revamp the AI (and lower the number of them), and make it less linear and the game would have been great. RIP Clark, Chavez, and Price. Don't forget the 3rd person lean. It makes the game SO unbalanced that you can look around corners and aim at you foe without exposing yourself Edited February 21, 2007 by Hockeystick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forrester Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Well according to my Avatar, sig and name, I would vote for another brand My brother got a pimped up 9-3 Well, enough OT for me. Sry for off topic but this is the only true car to drive whether UBI CEO or not Only when your wife is named Sally, you better not buy eh? Do you know the gasoline prices in europe????? better buy a Volkswagen over here..... (I drive Seat, cause it is cheaper and just as good) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutlink Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 (edited) After using the 3rd person lean, I have to say it's not as unbalanced as one might think. In the time it takes for a character to swing around from the wall to face the enemy and shoot (Hollywood style) the enemy can easily (and usually does, both human and AI) get a few good shots in on the player. Not to mention that when you hide behind crates and such, a lot of times part of your head, arm, or leg is exposed making for an excellent point of reference for shooting. I actually enjoyed the lean, but only from an action standpoint. If it was in Doom, Battlefield 2, Quake, or something along those lines I'd love it more, but in a game that is supposed to be based around real life tactics it has no place. Edited February 21, 2007 by Nutlink Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hockeystick Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 The point is however, that it's not realistic and the R6-series seem to have lost it's realistic gameplay after RvS. I totally agree with PC Gamer SWE when they say Vegas is a great game (86%) but it got the wrong name (Rainbow Six). It's good enough to stand on it's own legs so they should just have called it Vegas. Auto-heal and 3rd person doesn't belong in a Tactical FPS. When I played the Vegas demo on the X360 I was quite surprised to see how little or no tactics there is in the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutlink Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 (edited) Exactly my point. If GRAW 2 was to have a similar cover system I wouldn't bother purchasing it. I <3 Grin Edited February 21, 2007 by Nutlink Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bota:16 Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 (edited) The weapons in Vegas was what annoyed me to no end. That was the most horrible implementation of ballistics I have ever seen in a game. The Rainbow Six francshise is beyond dead now after Lockdown and Vegas. The only hope for it is to get UBI out of the picture. That will never happen because at the moment the Rainbow Six name makes them too much money on the consoles. Gonna stop now because just thinking about what R6 games used to be compared to recent ones just ###### me off. Why am I getting ###### about a video game? IDK. If there is a 3rd person cover system (3rd person anything for that matter) in GRAW 2 I think I would cry and most DEFINATELY not buy it. Edited February 21, 2007 by Athenian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZJJ Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 This forum is for the discussion of GRAW2, not about Rainbow Six. If you wish to continue talking about R6, please go to agr-s.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACTF_ZETT Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 First off, the rumor that UBI is in a bad financial situation has got to be BS. In the past 18 months they released GRAW, Vegas, which did amazing correct? And splinter cell was a success..... I doubt UBI is suffering to stay afloat compared to he money they were making around 3-4 years ago. I doubt UBI is pulling support for every game to finish their current project ASAP before the sell out. Secondly, EA is rumored to maybe buy out UBI. EA is rich enough to buy out just about anyone. GRAW 2 will be released, and hopefully will be great out of the box, but if its not, dont expect huge patch corrections from UBI. Its not a game like NWN2, WOW, or other games there they take community input to alter their games. They have already proven that they do not care about making PC gamers happy. On the other hand, GRIN might. We got SADS for GRAW after they heard our complaints. Is SADS included with GRAW2? Game comes out in a few weeks correct? We should be able to find out by now if this is included or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeathDealer71 Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 you.... So they are going to abandon support of Vegas PC, no more patches..... This will undoubtedly ###### off alot of gamers that arent already ###### at Ubi and force people like myself never to buy another ubisoft game again. Rainbow six caters to alot of the same gamers as Ghost Recon. Its unfortunate too, because Grin could be developing the best GR ever but there will still be an ubisoft logo on the box. Shame on ubisoft for releasing such a mess in Vegas then abandon it? http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/3...24/m/2751011535 That is a rumor and nothing else, this has been stated by UbiRickas. But it would not surprise me that they would go in that direction. Ubi has the "Give me ur money, thanks for buying our junk, sorry no support attutude). But it seems they are getting away with it. Death Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bota:16 Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 March 30th is the posted release date, so a little more than a few weeks. There hasn't been any mention of detailed game features as of yet for the PC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeathDealer71 Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 you.... So they are going to abandon support of Vegas PC, no more patches..... This will undoubtedly ###### off alot of gamers that arent already ###### at Ubi and force people like myself never to buy another ubisoft game again. Rainbow six caters to alot of the same gamers as Ghost Recon. Its unfortunate too, because Grin could be developing the best GR ever but there will still be an ubisoft logo on the box. Shame on ubisoft for releasing such a mess in Vegas then abandon it? http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/3...24/m/2751011535 That is a rumor and nothing else, this has been stated by UbiRickas. But it would not surprise me that they would go in that direction. Ubi has the "Give me ur money, thanks for buying our junk, sorry no support). Death Whats also funny is that I so hated consoles and console players for a long time, I actually just bought a X360 with Vegas last night. I hated the fact that there games are all $60 dollars now. What a RIP but hey ppl are buying the product and they are making $$$$. So far I am pleasantly surprised with Vegas and the console. But now my PC is screaming come back come back. Alot of my adult PC gaming friends have gone to the 360 because Vegas is decent and fun and has good tactic's. I am not sure how long I will own this. Games like HL2 ep.2 will bring me back, and GRAW 2. Well we shall see, Death Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hockeystick Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 March 30th is the posted release date, so a little more than a few weeks. There hasn't been any mention of detailed game features as of yet for the PC. How about quicksaves and recon? But yeah, I would also like to hear some more. But I think GRIN want's to keep some surprises for release, according to something I read earlier but I can't find the artice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingkat Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 It looks like to me, at least from where I sit, .......... .........the BEST thing that UBI did was to give GRiN the responsibility to make GRAW. They have , IMHO, done a lot AND created a great game. I also believe that GRAW2 will be even better............at least Quick Saves are going to be included............... Call me a "fan boy" whatever............I think GRiN is doing a great job. At least they have listened to this community. And also, even though I may be OT here, many of us, (or at least myself) started with Rainbow Six game and then progressed to GR. So there is a definite connection between the two games. It is still sad to see a series a great as RS6 decline. Perhaps GRiN should have a go at it as well. That's my story, and , well.................. Kingkat.......................................... counting the days until the 30th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 As DD stated above, this "no more support for Vegas" discussion on the Ubi board is based on unsunstantiated rumour, add to that the fact you cannot compare patch support for one game against another, and it would seem there's much speculation going on here and not much to support it at all. If GRAW had recieved the same shocking lack of support that R6:LD and R6:Vegas had, there would be justification for getting worried about GRAW2 support, but looking back at the number of patches we got for GRAW, it kind of kicks that premise into touch. Have faith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeathDealer71 Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 As DD stated above, this "no more support for Vegas" discussion on the Ubi board is based on unsunstantiated rumour, add to that the fact you cannot compare patch support for one game against another, and it would seem there's much speculation going on here and not much to support it at all. If GRAW had recieved the same shocking lack of support that R6:LD and R6:Vegas had, there would be justification for getting worried about GRAW2 support, but looking back at the number of patches we got for GRAW, it kind of kicks that premise into touch. Have faith Well spoken, Death Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingkat Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 As my colleague from New Zealand says, " You're spot on". Kingkat...................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peace Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 If GRAW had recieved the same shocking lack of support that R6:LD and R6:Vegas had, there would be justification for getting worried about GRAW2 support, but looking back at the number of patches we got for GRAW, it kind of kicks that premise into touch. Have faith Yea lack of support was not an issue in GRAW, the GRIN guys did a good job (with UBI support I assume) , and paid a lot of attention to input from the community thus delivered substantial fixes to the game. Not saying that GRAW is perfect, but imo the main problem with GRAW derives from 1) the short developing time and 2) some fundamental bad choices/deviations from the GR concept (mainly read bad injury model, no multiple insertion zones for t vs t, no replays, maps not available for all game modes, limited coop possibilities etc) I hope the same good support the community had for GRAW (with interaction here at GR.net) will apply for GRAW 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinker Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 If GRAW had recieved the same shocking lack of support that R6:LD and R6:Vegas had, there would be justification for getting worried about GRAW2 support, but looking back at the number of patches we got for GRAW, it kind of kicks that premise into touch. Have faith Yea lack of support was not an issue in GRAW, the GRIN guys did a good job (with UBI support I assume) , and paid a lot of attention to input from the community thus delivered substantial fixes to the game. Not saying that GRAW is perfect, but imo the main problem with GRAW derives from 1) the short developing time and 2) some fundamental bad choices/deviations from the GR concept (mainly read bad injury model, no multiple insertion zones for t vs t, no replays, maps not available for all game modes, limited coop possibilities etc) I hope the same good support the community had for GRAW (with interaction here at GR.net) will apply for GRAW 2. The PVT Beta Testing of Patches for GRAW, IMO, was a massive Boost. With such a short dead-line, i hope they think of doing the same thing with GRAW2. Tinker p.s. The Lean and Peek in Splinter Cell rocks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteKnight77 Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 First off, the rumor that UBI is in a bad financial situation has got to be BS. In the past 18 months they released GRAW, Vegas, which did amazing correct? And splinter cell was a success..... I doubt UBI is suffering to stay afloat compared to he money they were making around 3-4 years ago. I doubt UBI is pulling support for every game to finish their current project ASAP before the sell out. You haven't read the Ubisoft posts reduced six-month loss article where it states: French publisher $46.9 million in red despite strong GRAW sales, looks to Splinter Cell and Wii lineup for holiday hits. I don't see EA buying Ubi for right now (this is my opinion and not anything based on anything I may or may not have heard). EA is just a thorn in Ubi's side as far as that stock purchase goes. Still Ubi is having public perception problems due to games that are not worth the disks they were released on and not just in the TC R6/GR/SC series. While GRAW, Vegas and SC: DA have all sold somewhat well, fans are all upset about how they all have turned out. Reports of problems with Vegas and DA abound (GRIN has at least tried to fix GRAW for PC) with the German Communuities raising Cain for defective products (at least with Vegas). I am quiet sure GRIN will support GRAW2, just as they did with GRAW. As Rocky said, the lack of support by Ubi themselves may be something to be desired, GRIN may not pull a Ubi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papa6 Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 (edited) how many times/titles can a publisher like UBI jack-up games before it tanks? UBISOFT can't screw up games forever without a detrimental effect on not only the community but itself. Grin is just the unlucky chaps caught in the middle looking at the GRAW servers, leads me to believe that this community is dying or dead. not many servers are really active except BDA's. But we will see. I'm optimistic still but I've taken notes on these things which makes me wonder. GRAW2 will be the saviour or the nail in the coffin for this community. -Papa6 Edited February 21, 2007 by Papa6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bota:16 Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 I think GRAW 2 will be the savior or the nail in the coffin for all the Clancy series games not just GR. Alot of people play at least two of them if not all 3 of them and the other 2 (R6, SC) aren't doing so hot right now But in UBI's skewed logic of quanity over quality they have reduced the R6 and SC series to rubble. Only reasons I will purchase GRAW 2 is because GRIN's name is on the box and the support they gave this community in GRAW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROCO*AFZ* Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 I think GRAW 2 will be the savior or the nail in the coffin for all the Clancy series games not just GR. Alot of people play at least two of them if not all 3 of them and the other 2 (R6, SC) aren't doing so hot right now But in UBI's skewed logic of quanity over quality they have reduced the R6 and SC series to rubble. Only reasons I will purchase GRAW 2 is because GRIN's name is on the box and the support they gave this community in GRAW. Hmm no pressure to Grin... with the nail in the coffin. I agree though my purchase of Graw 2 is souly based upon Grin and the support they have given us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rbrad1 Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 I think GRAW 2 will be the savior or the nail in the coffin for all the Clancy series games not just GR. Alot of people play at least two of them if not all 3 of them and the other 2 (R6, SC) aren't doing so hot right now But in UBI's skewed logic of quanity over quality they have reduced the R6 and SC series to rubble. Only reasons I will purchase GRAW 2 is because GRIN's name is on the box and the support they gave this community in GRAW. Hmm no pressure to Grin... with the nail in the coffin. I agree though my purchase of Graw 2 is souly based upon Grin and the support they have given us. I agree, wholeheartedly! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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