Hear me out...

[Ick]

Interesting discussion.

After playing a lot of Rainbow: Vegas and other games we played some GRAW Co-op last night.

I forgot how fun that was.....and how much Ghost Recon co-op stands out more than any other co-op game.

These are interesting thoughts.

[Osok]

I ask that they finally catch up the multiplayer graphics to look like the Single Player. I realize they're built in two different shops but there was a huge gap between what GRAW single player looked like and what we got with the multiplayer. And now in seeing the new videos (all of which are single player footage) it again looks real sweet..but please please give us that quality in multiplayer as well (Gears of War...cough).

[Raw Kryptonite]

I actually like the environmental graphics in the MP. The soldier detail is lacking vs. the SP, but the rest looks pretty good. Some areas seem a little MORE detailed in the buildings etc.

[MAX419]

I actually like the environmental graphics in the MP. The soldier detail is lacking vs. the SP, but the rest looks pretty good. Some areas seem a little MORE detailed in the buildings etc.

I agree. There wasn't near as much pop-in in the environments in MP vs. SP....

[ITI SERPICO IVI]

I ask that they finally catch up the multiplayer graphics to look like the Single Player.

gears is 4v4 where graw & vegas are 8v8 max. have to dumb down the graphics to avoid lag issues. and that's a bandwitdth issue. not to mention graw maps are huge. GOW and vegas are probably gonna be the blueprint for next gen shooters(cover system). halo 3 w/ a cover system? who knows? customizable weapons would be great in graw2 but not the realism like vegas. i hate the recoil. keep graw2 similar to graw with a minor few tweaks and ubi can't go wrong. maybe add a halo 2-like lobby system. a cover system in graw2 mp would be ok if areas of cover were placed in battle areas and not all over that map. that would alleaviate camping. GOW is fun and fast paced even w/ a cover system. but then again maps are smaller. a dash feature in graw2 would be nice too.

Edited January 15, 2007 by ITI SERPICO IVI

[CanOfCorn]

I ask that they finally catch up the multiplayer graphics to look like the Single Player.

gears is 4v4 where graw & vegas are 8v8 max. have to dumb down the graphics to avoid lag issues. and that's a bandwitdth issue. not to mention graw maps are huge. GOW and vegas are probably gonna be the blueprint for next gen shooters(cover system). halo 3 w/ a cover system? who knows? customizable weapons would be great in graw2 but not the realism like vegas. i hate the recoil. keep graw2 similar to graw with a minor few tweaks and ubi can't go wrong. maybe add a halo 2-like lobby system. a cover system in graw2 mp would be ok if areas of cover were placed in battle areas and not all over that map. that would alleaviate camping. GOW is fun and fast paced even w/ a cover system. but then again maps are smaller. a dash feature in graw2 would be nice too.

Ha ha. Graphics have nothing to do with lag. The only data that needs to be transferred across you internet connection is position, orientation, orientation at the time of shot, and miscellaneous other things. Graphics are driven locally by your console. I could care less how good the graphics look. I just want [GR] gameplay back.

[BigOlBrain]

I would LOVE to see the 1st person gun view/cover option in GRAW 2.

[Raw Kryptonite]

I would LOVE to see the 1st person gun view/cover option in GRAW 2.

Yeah, that would be nice. 1st person, only see what you could ACTUALLY see around cover. I love Rainbow's system, but it could be improved upon like that.

[MAX419]

I would LOVE to see the 1st person gun view/cover option in GRAW 2.

Yeah, that would be nice. 1st person, only see what you could ACTUALLY see around cover. I love Rainbow's system, but it could be improved upon like that.

Well...Here's the thing...If it was going to be implemented, we would have heard about it by now. I'm thinking that the improvements we'll see in GRAW2 will be based on suggesstions made just after GRAW1's release. I could be wrong, but I think that GRAW2 is in the finalization stage i.e. debug code being deleted, intense play-testing, etc.....like I said, I could very well be wrong...

[BS PALADIN]

Heres my 2 cents, if GRAW 2 implemented the R6 cover system then GRAW2 would lose a large proportion of the hardcore GR players. The ones who have played GR since [GR] and GRIT. This franchise has been watered down steadily for the last few years to attract nooby casual gamers who dont have a clue what they're doing and have to hide behind rocks and walls to get kills. So now these people want to make it even easier by adding the R6 cover system, i suppose you want blind fire as well. Hell why dont we add in lasers and make it completely like HALO. If GRAW 2 gets any more nooby or less realistic than the already arcadey GRAW then i and alot of my 60 strong team will just go find another game. Rogue warrior looks like it could be the first tactical shooter on the 360, might give that a go if GRAW 2 hasnt made drastic improvements ( ie bigger maps, better positoined spawns, more spawns, no more gay assed night/thermal vision ). But i'll wait and see, i still have faith left in redstorm. But at the end of the day im sure ubi cares more about the casual gamers who pick up the game for the single player and maybe play a few hours online here and there than the clan orientated players who dedicate countless hours to the game. Which is fair enough, ubi is a business. They need money, but they shouldnt claim to be community orientated company if they are just after a quick buck. Plus i think there's money in keeping the online community of a game happy. If we dont play the online section of the game it looks dead. GRAW recently is a prefect example of this. GRAW online is a ghost town nowadays. Completely abandoned due to its lacklustre online play. Other games might be able to get away with 10 maps at launch but not GR games. I seriously hope this trend of less maps is reversed for GRAW 2. Come on redstorm give us back the GR games we love so we can forget about GRAW as a slight mishap.

Edited January 25, 2007 by BS PALADIN

[BigOlBrain]

Heres my 2 cents, if GRAW 2 implemented the R6 cover system then GRAW2 would lose a large proportion of the hardcore GR players. The ones who have played GR since [GR] and GRIT. This franchise has been watered down steadily for the last few years to attract nooby casual gamers who dont have a clue what they're doing and have to hide behind rocks and walls to get kills. So now these people want to make it even easier by adding the R6 cover system, i suppose you want blind fire as well. Hell why dont we add in lasers and make it completely like HALO. If GRAW 2 gets any more nooby or less realistic than the already arcadey GRAW then i and alot of my 60 strong team will just go find another game. Rogue warrior looks like it could be the first tactical shooter on the 360, might give that a go if GRAW 2 hasnt made drastic improvements ( ie bigger maps, better positoined spawns, more spawns, no more gay assed night/thermal vision ). But i'll wait and see, i still have faith left in redstorm. But at the end of the day im sure ubi cares more about the casual gamers who pick up the game for the single player and maybe play a few hours online here and there than the clan orientated players who dedicate countless hours to the game. Which is fair enough, ubi is a business. They need money, but they shouldnt claim to be community orientated company if they are just after a quick buck. Plus i think there's money in keeping the online community of a game happy. If we dont play the online section of the game it looks dead. GRAW recently is a prefect example of this. GRAW online is a ghost town nowadays. Completely abandoned due to its lacklustre online play. Other games might be able to get away with 10 maps at launch but not GR games. I seriously hope this trend of less maps is reversed for GRAW 2. Come on redstorm give us back the GR games we love so we can forget about GRAW as a slight mishap.

As it is now you can crouch behind something and look all around in 3rd person view seeing everything without being exposed at all. The old GR days are gone....it's not the same game. It's still a good game but it's very different then the good old days of the original. I was very against the 3rd person at all....and I still am. In fact I really still have issues with it but it's not going away and if people are going to be able to do things like crouch behind something and rotate the camera all around why not implement a cover system that's a little more realistic? Why couldn't you make a cover system that when you take cover the camera is in a fixed view and you are somewhat exposed or something.....I don't know. I don't know what the best approach would be but I do know that adding a cover system wouldn't water the game down anymore than it already has been.

So coming in here with your elitist attitude because you're so old school and hardcore and crying about how watered down the game is isn't going to do any good. Most of us tried this approach long time ago and you see where it got us.

BTW I played the original on PC when it first came out as well as IT and yeah I would love to have that old game back. At this point though...well it's just never going to happen.

[beonder13]

BTW I played the original on PC when it first came out as well as IT and yeah I would love to have that old game back. At this point though...well it's just never going to happen.

How cool would it be if they recreated old GR with the new visuals? I for one would buy it. Same maps and all. Just GR-Redux.

[Raw Kryptonite]

Another game that could have a lot of potential, along with Rogue Warrior, is Strike Force Red Cell. I don't see any mention of a 360 version of America's Army, so these may be the most realistic we can get. I still like GR a lot, but I do think that it's losing sight a bit. SP seems to be getting more and more like an action movie. I hope we get something good for MP--like good maps to begin with. I can do without a cover function since the lean is more useful in outdoor environments. When prone behind a rock, a cover function wouldn't be nearly as useful as a lean.

Edited January 25, 2007 by Raw Kryptonite

[BigOlBrain]

Another game that could have a lot of potential, along with Rogue Warrior, is Strike Force Red Cell. I don't see any mention of a 360 version of America's Army, so these may be the most realistic we can get. I still like GR a lot, but I do think that it's losing sight a bit. SP seems to be getting more and more like an action movie. I hope we get something good for MP--like good maps to begin with. I can do without a cover function since the lean is more useful in outdoor environments. When prone behind a rock, a cover function wouldn't be nearly as useful as a lean.

I agree. Again if it were up to me I would have the game in 1st person with a gun view (no 3rd at all). This would stop the whole rotating screen thing while covered. I'm not hardcore stuck on the cover option thing but at this point what difference would it make considering you can "cheat" (or whatever you want to call it) as it is? The game really isn't old school GR anymore anyway....

And I agree about the SP....amazing to look at but way too arcade.

Don't get me wrong I like GRAW 360 but it's far from the original GR games and I don't see them ever going back.

So basically I just accept GRAW for what it is and hope that something more....."realistic" comes out down the road.

[BS PALADIN]

Im not elitist in anyway, and when i say watered down im not just talking about 3rd person view. GR2 has 3rd person view and it was a great game because it compensated wih random spawns which brought a new tactical element to the game. Im talking about spawns numbers and positions, left trigger easy aim, smaller maps with too many choke points and a thousand other things that cater to casual 30 minute gamers. And i first started on PC GR as well but found xbox GR to be a better game online. Xbox live is unmatched for online play. The point of my post was that a game that was based on tactical gameplay and which became successful due to that gameplay and the incredible online support it recieved from clans and sites like this one, has actually turned its back on the people that made it a no1 brand. Now its heading at full speed to an interactive hollywood war movie. And the sad thing is i think that when the original supporters of the game leave due to the more casual feel of the game then the series will dwindle as the next big shooter comes along. I've never played a game with such intensity or joy as the Gr recon series. But i can see those days coming to an end.

[5timechamp]

it is now you can crouch behind something and look all around in 3rd person view seeing everything without being exposed at all.

I dont see why people still complain about 3rd person view...if it bothers u that much then play in 1st person view, im sure you all know the game has one. Hell its the same weaponless view from the original, unless you are the type who want the game to be just like the original but want weapon view as well . As far as playing in full peson vs 3rd person players, I oftentimes manage to outplay the 3rd person players by a mile, the tactics from the original game transfer over just fine... besides if a tomato can of a player can beat these 3rd person babies with eas, surely u big time career [GR] players can as well....And if that doesnt work host the servers and limit it to 1st person view only.

I will say it now as ive said it before...the biggest problem with the graw multiplayer is basically that the maps are too small, way too small. the engagements happen way too fast in graw...there is no time to set-up ambushes or to steadily move up to the objective. As it is now there are generally too few choke points and areas of engagement....so if u really want ubi to fix something then tell them to return the maps to ghost recon appropriate size................as for a cover system, i really dont care if they add one or not since it doesnt seem to affect kill capicity if you are actually moving with situational awareness...

[BigOlBrain]

Im not elitist in anyway, and when i say watered down im not just talking about 3rd person view. GR2 has 3rd person view and it was a great game because it compensated wih random spawns which brought a new tactical element to the game. Im talking about spawns numbers and positions, left trigger easy aim, smaller maps with too many choke points and a thousand other things that cater to casual 30 minute gamers. And i first started on PC GR as well but found xbox GR to be a better game online. Xbox live is unmatched for online play. The point of my post was that a game that was based on tactical gameplay and which became successful due to that gameplay and the incredible online support it recieved from clans and sites like this one, has actually turned its back on the people that made it a no1 brand. Now its heading at full speed to an interactive hollywood war movie. And the sad thing is i think that when the original supporters of the game leave due to the more casual feel of the game then the series will dwindle as the next big shooter comes along. I've never played a game with such intensity or joy as the Gr recon series. But i can see those days coming to an end.

I agree with your points other than the 3rd person view. I tolerate it but I'm no fan of it.

[BigOlBrain]

it is now you can crouch behind something and look all around in 3rd person view seeing everything without being exposed at all.

I dont see why people still complain about 3rd person view...if it bothers u that much then play in 1st person view, im sure you all know the game has one. Hell its the same weaponless view from the original, unless you are the type who want the game to be just like the original but want weapon view as well . As far as playing in full peson vs 3rd person players, I oftentimes manage to outplay the 3rd person players by a mile, the tactics from the original game transfer over just fine... besides if a tomato can of a player can beat these 3rd person babies with eas, surely u big time career [GR] players can as well....And if that doesnt work host the servers and limit it to 1st person view only.

I will say it now as ive said it before...the biggest problem with the graw multiplayer is basically that the maps are too small, way too small. the engagements happen way too fast in graw...there is no time to set-up ambushes or to steadily move up to the objective. As it is now there are generally too few choke points and areas of engagement....so if u really want ubi to fix something then tell them to return the maps to ghost recon appropriate size................as for a cover system, i really dont care if they add one or not since it doesnt seem to affect kill capicity if you are actually moving with situational awareness...

1st vs 3rd is just personal preference. The issue I have with it is that it's not easy to find 1st person only games. My other issue with it is that I don't like the idea of someone (the opponent) being able to take cover and scan the map at the same time with no consequences....regardless if I'm a better player or not. That's just me and my personal opinion though and like I said I have accepted GRAW for what it is now even if I don't like the 3rd person option.

I couldn't agree more about the map size and the combat engagement too soon btw.

[ReapeR eXe]

it is now you can crouch behind something and look all around in 3rd person view seeing everything without being exposed at all.

I dont see why people still complain about 3rd person view...if it bothers u that much then play in 1st person view, im sure you all know the game has one. Hell its the same weaponless view from the original, unless you are the type who want the game to be just like the original but want weapon view as well . As far as playing in full peson vs 3rd person players, I oftentimes manage to outplay the 3rd person players by a mile, the tactics from the original game transfer over just fine... besides if a tomato can of a player can beat these 3rd person babies with eas, surely u big time career [GR] players can as well....And if that doesnt work host the servers and limit it to 1st person view only.

I will say it now as ive said it before...the biggest problem with the graw multiplayer is basically that the maps are too small, way too small. the engagements happen way too fast in graw...there is no time to set-up ambushes or to steadily move up to the objective. As it is now there are generally too few choke points and areas of engagement....so if u really want ubi to fix something then tell them to return the maps to ghost recon appropriate size................as for a cover system, i really dont care if they add one or not since it doesnt seem to affect kill capicity if you are actually moving with situational awareness...

1st vs 3rd is just personal preference. The issue I have with it is that it's not easy to find 1st person only games. My other issue with it is that I don't like the idea of someone (the opponent) being able to take cover and scan the map at the same time with no consequences....regardless if I'm a better player or not. That's just me and my personal opinion though and like I said I have accepted GRAW for what it is now even if I don't like the 3rd person option.

I couldn't agree more about the map size and the combat engagement too soon btw.

I doubt that we will get anything that makes us say wow when we finally hear any news regarding the MP side of the game....after all....what more can they possibly do with the existing game engine....? Until GRAW 3 or whatever they decide to call it goes into production all we can hope for is a nice little expansion pack for GRAW...just like GRSS was for GR on the XBOX.

No news is good news...or so they say....but maybe in this case the good fellas at Red Storm have no new news....making GRAW 2 MP a little more pretty or a few more weapons and some new face paint will not make for an improved game....just a quick fix for the short term.

Maybe I'm just getting ready for an expansion pack type of a gig with this new GRAW.....then if it does offer some new stuff I'll be happy....lol.........GRAW is in my top 3 games and I love the MP....lets hope we all get a nice treat...!!!!!

[BigOlBrain]

Yeah all issues aside I would be happy with a "nothing new but maps" version of the game as long as I could keep a connection and not get dropped. I like GRAW the way it is even if there are things I would like to change, it's still a good game and imo the best online 360 game atm.

[MAX419]

Yeah all issues aside I would be happy with a "nothing new but maps" version of the game as long as I could keep a connection and not get dropped. I like GRAW the way it is even if there are things I would like to change, it's still a good game and imo the best online 360 game atm.

Yeah, I would be happy with nothing new but maps.....and fixed screen tear.....but I have a feeling we are going to be pleasantly surprised...

Edited January 28, 2007 by MAX419

[ITI SERPICO IVI]

from the screenshots and vids it looks like graw but w/ added tweeks and some graphical enhancements. and that's fine with me. keep the fundamental ideas on which graw was built and build off of that. what's really interesting is this. a lot of my friends are deep into r6 vegas mp. graw2 is a little over a month away. i wonder how that transition is going to take place b/w both games. unless graw 2 is a total flop,i personally will be done w/ vegas once it is released or atleast play vegas on a limited basis. and im hoping my friends will do the same. and if they don't, well my gamertag is ITI SEPRICO IVI. hit me up.

[ReapeR eXe]

from the screenshots and vids it looks like graw but w/ added tweeks and some graphical enhancements. and that's fine with me. keep the fundamental ideas on which graw was built and build off of that. what's really interesting is this. a lot of my friends are deep into r6 vegas mp. graw2 is a little over a month away. i wonder how that transition is going to take place b/w both games. unless graw 2 is a total flop,i personally will be done w/ vegas once it is released or atleast play vegas on a limited basis. and im hoping my friends will do the same. and if they don't, well my gamertag is ITI SEPRICO IVI. hit me up.

Agree...the pics and video clips look like more of the same but better...if you know what I mean....lol

We have seen nothing yet or heard nothing yet of the MP side of the game........we sit and wait.

[BigOlBrain]

from the screenshots and vids it looks like graw but w/ added tweeks and some graphical enhancements. and that's fine with me. keep the fundamental ideas on which graw was built and build off of that. what's really interesting is this. a lot of my friends are deep into r6 vegas mp. graw2 is a little over a month away. i wonder how that transition is going to take place b/w both games. unless graw 2 is a total flop,i personally will be done w/ vegas once it is released or atleast play vegas on a limited basis. and im hoping my friends will do the same. and if they don't, well my gamertag is ITI SEPRICO IVI. hit me up.

Agree...the pics and video clips look like more of the same but better...if you know what I mean....lol

We have seen nothing yet or heard nothing yet of the MP side of the game........we sit and wait.

I just want some good maps....I'm so dang sick of "nowhere".

[ReapeR eXe]

Nowhere has its fans and rightly so, however, I also am looking forward to some fresh material. Give us some maps that bring back the tactical element in the tactical shooter. The only team play I see is that people wear the same uniform...after that its everyman for himself....no communication...just run and gun....the sad thing is that it works. No drawbacks at all for just blasting out of the spawn site and heading right at the enemy shooting as you go.........that is my biggest issue.