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Describe what your ideal shooter would contain.


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ZJJ invited me to come here and post some ideas....but I could not find the same topic as we had over at www.2old2kwit.net Therefore I post it here.

Over there she asked:

"What is your Ideal Shooter?"

Based on GRAW...................:


When are developers going to catch up to Halo 2? I mean these things were available in 2004 on the XBOX. Why haven't developers figured these items out?

Here is my ideal shooter:

More Customization

Halo 2 level of customization for Multiplayer matches. GRAW did pretty good job...but for the most part games keep this way too simple for a serious gamer. Add to that you could NAME custom game types and share with friends was GROUNDBREAKING. Where in the HELL are the rest of these developers at? Are they all asleep or what?

Party System

Halo2 type party system where you and your buds can seek out other teams of equal number in a variety of pre-set random matches. Chromehounds came close...but it was still the same settings over and over...just different maps. In Halo you had scads of maps, several game modes, several weapon sets, etc. Nothing compares to Halo 2 yet.

Keeping a game fresh

Halo2, on top of what I mentioned above ^^^ tracked who liked what...and CHANGED the weight to the more popular settings AND introduced new gametypes and settings to keep it fresh. They made changes and tweaks that REALLY kept the game fresh LONG after release. In FACT, I believe they made changes as far as TWO YEARS after release. Now that is servicing a game for fans.

Long-term Playability

Halo 2 has recently announced that there will be additional DLC maps in the Spring. Yes, maps for a great game released November of 2004 . Sure, people are going to ###### about it costing money but honestly....if they came out with new maps and game modes for GRAW more than ONE time it would improve MY GRAW experience greatly.....and line Ubisoft's pockets with cash. When you DO find a game you LIKE....and they plan to KEEP IT FRESH for a LONG PERIOD OF TIME.....that is a good thing. You can't argue "yeah, they are just charging you for stuff they should have included in the game in the first place." No, CLEARLY, they are charging you for GREAT content that improves on a great purchasing experience. I hope for more of this in the future.

Long Live Halo2!!!

Other future items that would break tradition and make the next title standout:

Massive Interactive map with battles.

Test Drive Unlimited's massive map and cruising with friends is pretty nice.....ASSUMING you GET IT TO WORK. Cruising with friends on that map was fun but very hard to do. However, this caused (at least Wing Shot and I talked about it) this idea.......

Let's use Hawaii as our basis for discussion.

It is 2020 and China is a superpower. Following a long line of aggressive moves...they have finally made a play for Hawaii. You can play a variety of co-op missions and multiplayer maps as either the Chinese or Ghosts. The following battles are going on. You can either get in a APC with buddies and fight your way across the map to a mission deployment zone...or simply the host selects the mad and game mode manually.

---China has the beach head. Re-take the beach by infiltration. (alternate setting, USA controls the beach...play as china version of Ghosts)

---Nobody has beachhead. Play as either to control.

---China has control of town, take it back. (opposite version as above)

---Sweep map for OPP FOR, engage targets of opportunity

---infiltrate enemy vessel (make a Navy SEALS mission)

---Assist Hawaiian resistance fighters trying their best to keep their town from Commie control.

---As China Gosts Eliminate resistance fighters and have some pineapple to boot.

---Recon enemy forces from high point.

---As sniper, blast enemy equipment with M98 or similar anti-materiel sniper. Your buddy has to deal with anti-sniper patrols.

---You play as China/Commies or Ghosts (select representative nations for either "faction"). During the week each of your factions fights for control of areas and the total island. Much like Chriomehounds eventually one or other wins..

Map ideas:

Hawaii has a LOT of variation in landscape

sparse area

---low vegetation area

---heavy vegetation area

---mountain top area

---heavy enemy vehicle area

---small town area

---swampy dark area

---city area

---small outlying island area

---Heck, how about a map with lava tunnels in it?

---Give us frickin snow maps.. No fake, Hawaii doesn't have snow. Who cares? I am sick of begging for snow maps.

---plenty of dark maps of the above varieties..especially where we can turn night vision OFF

---Very Dark Bunker Hill Redux maps, AND SEVERAL OF THEM

Oh, a few OTHER THINGS if we are talking GRAW 3, 4, or whatever.....perhaps these are Ghost Recon specific.

1. Do NOT add auto aim. This is one of the foundations of Ghost Recon and what makes the game so very different.

2. Maintain your great balance between snipers, rifleman, gunners, and grenadiers as Red Storm has done in the past.

3. Don't screw with health...save perhaps a Medic that is VERY limited in abilities and effectiveness except for reviving team members to PARTIAL HEALTH. One or two hits you should DIE and stay dead. A medic should only be able to improve the effectiveness of a wounded soldier. Only Jesus can bring back the dead.....and nobody should be allowed to play as Jesus in a game.

4. Do NOT put an automatic grenade launcher or automatic shotgun in the game.

....and finally......

INCLUDE A COMPASS. What ###### decided to eliminate the compass from any shooter? How in the hell can you have a tactical military shooter without a compass? That is like an accountant not being able to use numbers. That is just stupid. Someone needs fired for doing this in GRAW and R6V. Oh, and no, GRAW didn't have a compass. They try to tell you it did....but can YOU use it? Of course not.

In that same line of thought...

Tactial maps released to the public should be consistently oriented North. GRAW had several maps like Treasury and Old Town that did NOT follow standard map orientation. This is just sloppy.


Now that Serellan is at the helm the series has an opportunity to see the same level of attention applied to the entire game.

The Ghost Recon series is going to HAVE to do something groundbreaking soon in the series. NOT that they have to change the gameplay....no....consistent pre-announced DLC keeping a game fresh....much like Halo 2 has done, would do the trick.

Edited by Ick
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ZJJ invited me to come here and post some ideas....but I could not find the same topic as we had over at www.2old2kwit.net Therefore I post it here.

Over there she asked:

"What is your Ideal Shooter?"

You got ahead of me, Ick. I haven't started that broad topic, yet, but will do so now. :D

I invited all of you over here to also give feedback in the other threads, as well. I know you won't hesitate to make comments. :P

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Basics: Modern day shooter. First person.

First, I'd have a lot of America's Army in it.

--FIRE TEAMS and assigned roles. You have to fall into a slot on the team. Team set up changes with the mission, might be a sniper position, might not etc. If an indoor CQB mission, then there shouldn't be a grenadier either, I would think. Mission based roles.

--Skill points to customize your soldier's abilities. 8 or so categories, like in AA, but you only have enough points to max out 3-4 of those, or to spread points out among all 8 categories. CHOOSE what is important to you, be a sniper, recon/observer, medic, fireteam leader, soldier somewhat proficient in all areas, but no specialty etc.

--NO crosshairs. Pull your gun up and use the sites/scope. Every bullet counts. You have to actually be a good shot in a game like this. No magic floating crosshairs letting you shoot from the hip! Actually pull the gun up or walk with it up, slowing down the soldier. Running, walking, standing still, kneeling and prone should all affect your precision.

--Health: get shot and it weakens you. Try to run after getting shot and you die. Vision gets worse as you bleed out. Anyone can apply first aid, but only a very good medic can get you back close to normal health. Ability to heal someone depends on how many points you've put in that skill. Thus, someone can make themselves a medic.

--Objective based games that make sense and simulate actual military missions (no capture the flag and sharpshooter). Multiple objectives and ways to win: take objectives or kill off the other team

--NO respawns

--Be outdoors as well as indoors. Open/close doors, not just sealed off buildlings. Use all of the environment. Urban settings as well as wooded, desert etc.

Other influences to incorporate:

--Persistent war, like in Chrome Hounds. Fight a major virtual war along with the rest of the real world. 100's of battlefields, conditions & throw in different objectives. Choose to play vs AI or humans. Make this a choice going in, not "take what you get".

--Weapon customization. Have a rack of weapons for each fire team slot. Customize the weapon how you want it, as long as it still supports your fire team role.

--Dont worry about getting a ton of players on at the same time. 16 is plenty. Have 2 fire teams of 4 on each side.

--RANDOM EVENTS in MP. Throw in some NPCs or other events. One day you fight on a battlefield and it's a normal MP round. Next time you go there there could be a group of insurgents there fighting against both teams trying to kill you off or blow you up. Change the weather and time of day on that same map as well.

--Destructible environment: we have games that allow shooting through glass, which is great. Add that to wooden fences and other light cover....and for realism, some sniper weapons through walls.

--Don't let a 6" drop stop your soldier in his tracks. Step down.

--Cover function: similar to Rainbow Six: Vegas, but stay in 1st person. Limit field of view to what an actual person in that position could actually see. Also, a lean.

--Graphics: important, but don't sacrifice gameplay for it. Does need to compete graphically though. Have each map look DISTINCT. A snowy enviroment, desert, urban...not all the same.

--Change the loadout due to the conditions: This lets players alter their soldier accordingly with camo, weapons etc. If cold, make them wear more or suffer from the cold with lower health or something. If hot, wear less. Make them decide what is important to them. This should be a PLAYER option, not a HOST option. Players need to have control over their own soldier and how they want to play the game.

--Controls: D pad for lean, left/right. D pad up/down for rifle or grenade. Hold d-pad up for pistol. Something like that. Make it easy, no sub-menus, but not super fast to change out weapons. Make the timing realistic. Left trigger brings up your weapon--no crosshairs, remember? Wink

--Sound: GUNS: AA and Rainbow have the best sounding guns. Guns should sound real with a loud pop for every bullet. Shouldn't sound like a video game. Use surround sound to the fullest.

--Weekly patches, don't put off a patch until you roll a ton of issues into one patch. This way you can patch the big issues right away and roll out more as you knock them out. They all have to go through MS is my understanding, so get them going in a constant stream. This keeps players happy and shows that you pay attention.

--Lobby. MUST have a lobby in MP.

--Host options: gametypes, maps and all features need to be accessible in the lobby, not just at game set up.

--A lot of maps and DLC to keep the game fresh and to prevent it from getting old

--Needs to have a solid single player, not everyone plays online

--Co-op should be split screen as well as online. Online co-op should be the single player campaign, complete with cutscenes. Need a full fireteam for co-op, 4 people, or 8 people with AI bots to fill in any gaps. Allow players to spread themselves out across 2 fireteams on whichever team they want to be on, THEN fill in with AI (so if you have 6 people, 3 humans +1 AI bot on each team so that one team doesn't have all humans and the other mostly bots)

Another America's Army feature that should be in ALL shooters:

If you're getting shot at, it should reduce your effectiveness. If you're getting SHOT you shouldn't be able to do much of anything due to the fact that you're GETTING SHOT. LOL

In AA, you can apply points to make your guy more focused under fire. You have varying degrees of panic which affects your aim. This makes PERFECT sense. AA added the *psychology* side of combat, which other games have neglected. Similarly, you are affected when injured. Your aim is off and you're slowed down like limping. This is part of the reason it's so realistic. This needs to be included.

I do like regenerating health, some, but I also like needing a medic or at least first aid from other players. If regenerating health took long enough to happen there would still be use of a medic/first aid. Make the regenerating health relative to the injury, like in AA. With conditioning all the way up, I could overcome a graze and not even need to apply first aid to myself. Severe hits even a medic couldn't do much but keep you alive. If regenerating health took 5 minutes instead of 5 seconds, and only up to half health---with much better results from a good medic---I think that would be the perfect system.

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Good suggestions Raw.

--Weekly patches, don't put off a patch until you roll a ton of issues into one patch. This way you can patch the big issues right away and roll out more as you knock them out. They all have to go through MS is my understanding, so get them going in a constant stream. This keeps players happy and shows that you pay attention.

I don't think you are going to see weekly patches in games. The current approval process, at least in console games, is way too cumbersome to allow for multiple patches going on at once. I recall a developer telling me that MS requires a 30 day look at least...and often they come back with changes.....requiring another 30 day wait window.

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That's part of the reason they need quicker and smaller patches. That way you have a continuous stream of improvements. Sure, there would be an approval time for the first but once things kept going and flowing you'd have weekly progress in updates to the games. Plus, smaller patches seems like it would be quicker to get through testing and more likely to have it right the first time it's submitted.

I'm sure there's more to it than I'm aware of, maybe a cost to the developer to have the patch sent through Live, but it's still something to consider.

Edited by Raw Kryptonite
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  • 2 weeks later...

2 things that are in short supply these days.

Topo maps and binoculars.

My biggest complaint with GR:AW is the Tac-Map and having suspend (simulated) reality to rely on a dedicated satellite (with, apparently, a VERY long boom mic), when there is the drone which provides the same information. A map with usable grid coordinates and a set of LR binos would be more appropriate.

Azimuth & distance is where it's at.

SP specific, but not limited to.

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Let's use Hawaii as our basis for discussion.

It is 2020 and China is a superpower. Following a long line of aggressive moves...they have finally made a play for Hawaii. You can play a variety of co-op missions and multiplayer maps as either the Chinese or Ghosts.

I'd prefer it was set on some fictional island. The devs wouldn't have to honour any real geography, and could design the maps the way they want to. Want snow maps? Add a mountain range or put in seasonal weather.

Similarly, I'd like fictional factions. The opposition in SP could have the same toys as us, and it wouldn't have to be US vs. US in MP.

---plenty of dark maps of the above varieties..especially where we can turn night vision OFF

---Very Dark Bunker Hill Redux maps, AND SEVERAL OF THEM

I want night vision. If there has to be thermal vision, map it to some other button. There are night maps in GRAW but, with the thermal/night vision, I just turn up the brightness and turn them into day maps.[/MandatoryNightVisionRant]
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I want night vision. If there has to be thermal vision, map it to some other button. There are night maps in GRAW but, with the thermal/night vision, I just turn up the brightness and turn them into day maps.[/MandatoryNightVisionRant]

Oh yes, I agree night vision needs to be in there...but give me the option to turn it off. Playing a night map with no night vision is great fun.

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Oh yes, I agree night vision needs to be in there...but give me the option to turn it off. Playing a night map with no night vision is great fun.

Ahhh, then I'll be the one cowering behind the bush in the corner. You'll never find me, unless nervous incontinence gives me away.

Really though, I think your post just triggered my reflex complaint about the blurry blob vision. I wasn't disagreeing with you.

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Some ideas I posted a long time ago in the ubi forums about my ideal shooter:

Formation indicator:

What it is and does:

It could be a little icon somewhere on your screen that says which formation is needed or selected by you and allows you and your team members to stay in that certain formation as on the indicator.

Im not an expert on this but on diverent areas diverent formations are needed to walk in, in order to safely walk towards your destination.

Real soldiers are trained to walk in formations with each other, but online gamers mostly aren't plus the fact that where dependent on a little screen instead of in real life where it's much easier to be aware of what's going on around us.

Certain formations like a "V" shaped formation are to what is told to me to cover a wide area, plus to cover the back area of the men on top by the men on the bottom of the "V" (maybe someone else can do a better job in explaining this).

Another one is a formation where a group of persons simply walk behind each other with a couple of meters between them for example on a road, so in case of an attack the chance of taken out all at once is decreased.

These and other formations could all appear on the formation indicator as a thick yellow coloured line which is the formations shape. The soldiers could appear as little green circle icons that are on the yellow line.

Every team member could easily take in there position until there soldier circle icon is within the yellow stripe on the right position. Than everybody starts to walk while keeping an eye on there indicator so they are in the right position. As soon as a person leaves the yellow stripe there soldier icon will flash and turn red to let the person and the team know he/she is out of the formation.

Which formation has to be selected by the team leader can all be learned with tutorials (also online). I think this way the game will become more tactical, less everyone for himself so better team work, and language will be less of a barrier now.

I was thinking that it may could be integrated into the radar, and the yellow formation line could start at the team leader. So everybody joins the formation by walking towards there team leader. And if he dies someone else automatically becomes the new leader and takes over the "FI".

Also every soldiers field of vision could be shown on there icons like in GR1 a bit like this: "O<"

So everyone knows which areas are covered or not.

Discussion url: http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/3...13/m/3011038833

The option to surrender or to force enemies to cooperate:

I was discussing this with a friend of mine and we both liked the idea. I played the demo of Swat 4 a while ago and in that game you don't just storm in and kill everyone that moves, but you can press a shout button if you see someone and than your team will scream against the enemy to disarm or to get shot. If the enemy than listened you had to keep an eye on him untill one of your team mates cuffed them. Sometimes it looked like an enemy cooperated but than suddenly made a move in which case you had to take him out.

This brings in a whole new way of suspense in shooters. Instead of just killing everything you actually need to think about your shots before there fired; Is it wise to kill the enemy now or shall I demand his surrender? (afcourse the AI would have to be tweaked a bit so they won’t shoot you instantly). This could be for humane reasons and/or for stealth, cause in real life not everyone you see is an enemy unlike in GR2. So you could use this to (silently) disarm a person, and also to get information out of him about multiple things like locations and amounts of enemy troops or on certain objects, a bit like in Splinter Cell really. Also it could be used to force people to do things like following you to a certain location, or at gun point lie for you against other enemy troops in case they are searching for you.

I was also thinking about the possibilities in multi player. Like instead of the old pistol/claymore kill from behind to actually silently disarm the guy.

The mic. could be turned off instantly incase disarmed. And you could use it when you know you don’t stand a chance, just for the sake it feels real or to just delay your death in the hope your teammates will help you. Aswell it could be used in a gameplay way that by disarming an enemy you would automatically get interrogate information in the form of a code or such to complete an objective and help your team win the round. A disarmed soldier could also gain you more points than a killed one in order to encourage it.

Discussion url: http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/3...3/m/6621000643/

Zulu Go Codes:

You guys can remember those zulu go codes in R6:3? (not sure if the earlier ones had it)

You basically gave your team a command to execute a certain action on your sign like "open and clear on zulu" "open frag and clear on zulu". On your sign (on zulu) you pressed (iirc) your white button and than your AI team members did there thing. This probably was the only good thing about R6:3 but still could be made much better.

Like in a GR game.

But unlike in R6:3 where only one zulu command could be given at a time why not give multiple zulu codes at once and at a specific soldier. And not only that but also make it so certain ZGC's are executed after one other.

Like this:

Soldier #1/ZGC position #1+#3/Action = (window #1) Breach on ZGC #1, clear on ZGC #3

Soldier #2/ZGC position #2+#3/Action = (door #1) Open flash on #2 and clear on #3.

Soldier #3/ZGC position #3/Action = (door #2) Open and clear.

Soldier #4/ZGC position #3/Action = (door #2) Open and clear.

At first it looks complicated but try to pay attention:

"Soldier #" = Selected soldier.

"ZGC position #" = Position of the ordered action, 1 being the 1st, 2,3,4.... will come after the previous action is executed.

"Action =" = From which entry point (door, window, hole..) plus the type of action that's ordered (breach, frag, flash, open, clear..).

In the above example a room is cleared.

Soldier #1 starts by breaching a window.

Than soldier #2 throws a flashbang in the room from door #1 and after that he goes in.

At the same time soldiers #1,#3 and #4 go in as well and clear the room, only soldiers #3 and #4 take door #2.

Again it looks complicated (read it a few times )but you would just have to look at an entry point like a door or window, from there a sub menu could be opened where you can proceed to plan your storming in style.

If to complicated the more simple ZGC's would imo still make an improvement to this game.

Now imagine you could abseil from rooftops and/or climb into window openings while using ZGC's. No more building clearings from bottom to top but all at once.

Discussion url: http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/3...13/m/8551008833

Some random things:

Abseiling (from mountains/buildings and as an entry way through windows).

Climbing mountains.

Totally new multiplayer modes (Big army with vehicles vs small group of SF mode/ Long lasting battles/ just truly new things not just CTF, LMS..).

Frogmen (jsonedecker BFS??; ).

Small transportation vehicles (Jeep/Zodiac).

Choosable Insertions (with the option of using a parachute).

Edited by Tchaikovsky
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I would like to be able to "control" my team, AI, a lot more closely. A good Tactical Interface with simple to execute commands. (like that OTHER recent fps game........ :hmm: .......)

Set the ROE for the entire squad.

Be able to TAG, or identify an objective and be able to order a team mate to destroy it, like a tank with their AT wep. Could use binoculars w/ laser tag thingy............. :unsure:

Select the team and their weapons. Realistic real world weapons.............. :D

Some optional 'faces' or styles of BDU, or armor. Customize their look.


Like assault an oil rig in the middle of some water, and rescue the hostages, defuse da bombs.......etc.

Then swim to the nearby island, and destry their radio station. Then take out the airport.

The story does not have to be a continual arc. Separate missions are fine. Objective based- non linear style game play.

Even have a MEDIC if you like, most other FPS have them............he can patch up and heal, say 1 bar of health of 4 total, but that's all just 1 at a time, and only total of four can be given. Still wounded but able to function.

ALL the Spec Ops stuff I watch have them................. :unsure: That guy in BHD movie was sure one busy ######... :rolleyes:

Tactical play..........open ended style.


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Massive Interactive map with battles.

An ongoing battle with a genuine front-line and rear area was what made Planetside so compelling.

I dream of a "tactical shooter" with gameplay that open ended because honestly it is a real kick picking a target behind a real front-line to pop. Short of an MMOFPS you're not going to see that though.

I guess for this sort of game some sort of mission generator possibly tied into a dynamic campaign mode would be more realistical in the meantime although I guess it kind of be generating only a certain kind of mission. What would make such a system really special is if it tied the aforementioned missions into the context of a larger campaign (risk stylee) with different kinds of missions during different phases of said larger campaign.

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- All urban combat.

- Gore that matches Gears, SOF II, and has the blood amount of Chronicles of Riddick.

- AA's firefights.

- Sprint button AND melee with every weapon.

- "Where you fire is where you hit" type of hit registration and ballistics.

- Proper ballistics (IE. Shotguns kill within 10 feet, assault rifles are all-around, while snipers are pin-point accurate)

- Full scale environment destruction, on a larger scale than Company of Heroes.

- Ability to cook and throw back frags.

- AI that actually becomes smarter and flanks you more often when set on the higher difficulties. (NOT just more accurate/ deals more damage)

- Non-idiotic squad AI.

- Squad of 4 including yourself.

- Single-player only.

- Semi-realism style. (Using real-world locations, ballistics, weaponry, tactics, but none of the waiting around or down times)

- Story that ties in with today's politics and has predictions of what might happen next.

- Running on Unreal Engine 3.

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My ideal shooter would be the most realistic, tactical, military, and stealth based shooter aka Military Sim that technology could possibly offer.

The closest I have seen so far is the [Ghost Recon]. Though I heard Operation FlashPoint or something along that name is extremely realistic.

I want military sim grade phyics. Bullets dropping over range. When some one gets shot. It replicates the results like it would in real life down to limping away as fast as you can if you get shot in the leg.

I want vast enviroments to move through that offer 360 degrees of movement and tons of natural cover and brush. I want forests, swamps, mountains, deserts, tropical, and many other kinds of realistic enviroments.

I want as many maps as possible. I don't want 10 small maps that look real pretty, I want 30 large maps that offer tons of variation in combat and all sorts of ways to go about your attack.

I want to utilize a first person view mode with the weapon view. A cover feature to press up against walls and still be in first person would be nice. When you press up against walls you look left or right instead of the way GRAW had it where you just looked into the wall

I want as much variety in weapons and as much customization to every aspect of the game as possible. I want to choose what kind of sniper rifle I have and be able to choose from every possible way I can change that rifle as well. Same thing with my character, I want to change his clothing, add a ghillie suit, choose his gear. Customization out the ying-yamg!

I want the game to punish people who run n' gun extensively and really show that a real soldier cannot run out into the middle of a field with an Mk 46 LMG and run in a zig zag line while holding down the trigger and expect to live more than 2 seconds.

I don't want auto-aim, I don't want vehicles, I don't want bunny hopping, I don't want all the other mainstream garbage that over flows the market today. I want everything painfully realistic. If you don't communicate, use stealth, and use full auto in long range engagements you will die over and over again.

I want the game to allow the host to control things, but also keep them from abusing power by stacking teams and booting people who do well. I want the host to decide the maps and have a democratic approach to teams and who gets the boot. Just because the host wants to cheat to win does not mean he can boot the guy on the other team who is running you down.

I could go on and on here, however I think I got my point across well enough.

Edited by Semaj7
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Here's something I posted on a different website's forums a while back. I have some tweaking to do with it, but the basic ideas remain the same:


Setting: North America (mostly U.S.)

Time: Near future (2010's)

Story (FPS): It kinda goes off of the "Red Dawn" sorta feel. You are a U.S. citizen, going about your everyday life. One day, a foreign force invades the U.S. via the Mexican route to split the country in two. As a civilian under attack, you and a platoon-sized group of men form a guerilla/militia group to disrupt communications and supply lines in order that the regular military forces can defeat the enemy on the fronts.

As the campaign progresses, you develop relationships within the group, enough to the point of being emotionally pained when members are KIA. You also develop certain skills: over the campaign, you develop better aim, more stamina (faster run or more carrying weight), and the ability to perform new tasks: explosives, medical assistance, fixing weapons.

You would also acquire "better" weapons as the time progresses. At the start, the player is equipped with basic, civilian-available weapons: pistols, semi-auto rifles, hunting rifles, basic dynamite for explosives. As the time goes on, you acquire surplus munitions and weapons from regular army stores, as well as the enemy weapons: limited and basic automatic weapons ("old" M16A2's, M-60's, M249's), claymores, grenades, and C4 as explosives, and basic anti-tank weapons: LAW, SMAW, Old TOW and Dragon missles, not so many fancy attachments and toys though. And, once your "platoon" begins to be in contact with friendly regular forces, you get the regular army weapons and equipment. The ultimate goal in the game is to help drive the enemy forces out of North American territory. That's the basic gist of it.

Story (MMOFPS): This is the multiplayer installment of the game, much like how CS is the multiplayer component to the half-life series. Your character functions more like a mercenary: you are solitary, until you join a clan or group up with other merc’s. You roam through this world: probably an island about the size of a small state, and perform tasks for a side of an ongoing conflict between two nations. For instance, a mission for Army A requires you to go into an Army B outpost and destroy a communications tower. Problem is, other mercenaries are being paid by Army B to defend that communications tower. If you succeed, you get money. If you die, you spawn at an origin point: a town or city on the island somewhere, and have to find a new mission to do.

The weapons system in this game is sort of different too. As a mercenary, you start out with vanilla weapons: plain, “standard issue†assault rifles with no attachments (M16A4, AK-107/108, SIG 552, G36, Galil MAR, AUG-A3, F2000). But, as you accumulate money, you are able to buy more weapons: pistols and SMG’s for secondary weapons, more sophisticated rifles and carbines, light machine guns, shotguns, sniping rifles, and attachments for your weapons. You would also be able to buy better gear such as body armor, magazine pouches, and camouflage for sniping work. All of these having real pricing, and that money comes from doing missions for either army.

Generally, realism is the key to success in the game in all aspects: weapons, movement, injury model, and sound.

Edited by Hacksaww
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My ideal shooter whould basically require the player to use tactics to win, not some fancy gagdet.

My ideal setting would be a small island of north korean on the eve of an attack by north korean forces on japan and south korea. Your team is send to the small island to investigate intelligence on the location of weapons of mass destruction. But your insertion goes wrong and your helo crashes. This will leave you on the island in the middle of enemy territory with very little resources. No radio, satnav or nightvision. You basically have a small amount of ammuntion, a compass, your weapon, a map and 4 comrades who survived the crash

So basically you first have to find some equipement. Then find a method of communicating your status to command. Then you have to carry out your original orders. And with no or extremely limited backup from command due to all others forces being tied up with the invasion of Japan and S Korea.All this in a streaming map. So that there is a go anywhere do anything, make your own choices feel to the game. It would have incredible replay value and would make you feel like a real special ops team. The game could even include interrogation to gather further intel. The final act of the game would be the stopping of several tacticals nuked mounted on short range missilse planned for use on Allied forces during the invasion.

And online play should include objectives that allow for more strategic play. Plus make both sides different so that each side has distinct advantages and disadvantages. For example the defending side is N.Korean and can call in artillery or air support to help defend their power station. While the Allied side has nightvision and satellite survelliance with heat signatures. And have the island be completely dynamic. Day to night cycles and random weather.

Now that would be both an incredible single player and multiplayer game. And while im not a developer i cant see it being impossible to pull of. Far cry did a streaming island, so did test drive and oblivion. So the technology is there. It just takes the will on red storm and ubi to implememnt it.

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Now there is a sim that I'd like to see amidst the shovelware at the local Walmart.

Nice scenario, concept.

Glad you liked it but i've rehashed it to make it better. Hope this is an improvement.

Setting and story.

Very near future set on an small island of the coast of North Korea. It's the middle of january as that allows for some varied locations on the island. As well as towns, forests, grasslands and mountaineous areas you could also cover everything with snow due to the time of year. I know North Korea has already been covered by many games but it is still the most credible threat and i have a different storyline to follow.

After escalating tensions between China and the US over oil and war in the middle east, a standoff has occured between them over Taiwan. With China wanting to force america to control the situation in the middle east or just pull out so that oil prices stablise. There is limited intelligence that North Korea has been sabotaging peace talks and further escalating the situation with black ops missions in the siberia oil fields and advanced hacking of the chinese stock market. Thus leaving China in a energy and economic crisis.

The reason for North Korea doing this is that they also have there own energy and economic problems which are close to producing all out civil war. And rather than submit to western demands to disarm, they intend to make a play for Japan and South Korea while China and the US shoot it out.

Thats the backdrop. So your special forces team is sent in to get intelligence on a island 12 miles off shore of North Korea which while being observed via satellite has had concentrated troop and armour re-inforcements.

And because of the Taiwan standoff, help from command in the form of intel and resuppliment is limited at best. Therefore you have to rely on your team and your tactics. Especially when entering the insertion point via helo, you're are hit with a SAM and forced to crash land. This destroys some vital equipement. Namely your radio and most of your ammunition.

The finale of the game being stopping North Korea exploding a covert nuke in the middle of the Chinese/US battlezone.


Im not a developer but i would hope that the island could be made fully dynamic and be streamed so that it was a go anywhere sandbox theme. This would allow for a an incredible experience. Allowing for massive replay value. From the spec sheet of GRAW 2 the tech is already there for day/night and weather cycles and streaming maps has been done countless times on other games like Far Cry and Test Drive Unlimited. But as i said im not a developer so i wouldn't know how possible this is.


The aim of gameplay is to make the player feel like he's in control of the situation, even when the odds are against him/her. Due to the situation of your crash landing , you would have options open to you. Avoid the hunter squads after you, look for communication or look for weapons. All this while still trying to preform your primary mission of gathering intel. This kind of free choice gameplay should be throughout the game. Some would say that this would leave some players confused on what to do. This can be solved by having difficulty levels of easy, normal and elite produce different hints through the game. For example for easy your comrades gives you semi instructions backed up with markers on the map, on normal there are no markers and the comrades only give suggestions. On elite you make the decisions.

Another way to cater for different levels of players is to have 2 modes. Semi realistic and realistic. These would be on offer for both online and offline play. A bit like modifiers but with a greater difference. Severe penalties for not using a weapon in the correct way. If possible add in windage and distance factors to bullet paths. The abilty to adjust your scope accordily would be incrediblily realistic.


For online play, dedicated servers like R6 to push the max numbers to 20-24. Also have real objectives and have the 2 sides be actually different. Different weapon loadouts and intel ablilities.

Small sections of map could be restricted for modes like destroy the convoy, elimate the general or take out the SAM. With players able to move the SAM, convoy or general as they wished. Also weather and time of day should be be completely random so as to reduce predictability.

Also link achievements to the old dossier system from [GR] and GRIT. Only allowing weapon selection after they have been unlocked in single player or online achievements. This would keep people playing the game many times over.

Well thats my idea. I hope some RedStorm guys read it and find it at least interesting and maybe just maybe incorporate some off it into the next GR.

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Interesting, North Korea is exactly where the game, "Rogue Warrior" takes place.

A 4 man FPS, open dynamic objective based game. I think this WILL be a good game. AND, I have read where Bethesda Studios, and Dick Marcinko, (the real life Rogue Warrior) are working on the NEXT installment story .

Looks like they believe they have a winner on their hands.

Looks like there is a market for this style of game play in a PC-FPS-game.


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My ideal shooter would be the most realistic, tactical, military, and stealth based shooter aka Military Sim that technology could possibly offer.

The closest I have seen so far is the [Ghost Recon]. Though I heard Operation FlashPoint or something along that name is extremely realistic.

I want military sim grade phyics. Bullets dropping over range. When some one gets shot. It replicates the results like it would in real life down to limping away as fast as you can if you get shot in the leg.

Yes, OFP (Operation Flashpoint) would be the game. The graphics are not the best (it is an old game), but it has the elements you describe. If you hit someone in the foot, they can only crawl from then on etc... You lead moving targets at distance, bullet drop is also factored in, and even your breath will affect your shooting. Better to not simply run full sprint up to a target before shooting, and yes you can hold your breath before firing too.

I don't want auto-aim, I don't want vehicles, I don't want bunny hopping, I don't want all the other mainstream garbage that over flows the market today. I want everything painfully realistic. If you don't communicate, use stealth, and use full auto in long range engagements you will die over and over again.

Well, in OFP you have freedom to do pretty much anything you want, but the thing is that just like in real life you WILL suffer the consequences. Like I said before, better to not run up to your target full sprint before firing as you will be out of breath. You can also run full sprint while firing your weapon, but again, just like in real life you will not hit jack. There is nothing wrong with allowing a player to bunny hop in a tactical shooter. As a matter of fact I would love to see an opponent bunny hop, it would mean they don't have a lick of chance in the world to hit me, but I can easily tag them.

Freedom is what OFP offers you. Want to climb a mountain and snipe people 500 meters down below? Go for it! OFP is still far from being 100% realistic, but it sure beats the pants off of anything else out there. Realism by default = freedom. Restrictions by default = a contrived and fabricated environment. Trust me, OFP may allow you to do almost anything, but most of those elements will simply get you killed. Much like real life, you have to go by the truism of choose wisely.

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jchung I completely agree a lot of games these days are basically shooting ranges disguised as a piece of city or land.

Take R6:V for example with all those closed down allies blocked with ruble or even better GRAW; take a turn the dev's don't want you to go and after a warning you get a "game over" message?!

In OFP it really felt you were in the middle of a country where you could choose to go where ever you wanted to which should be the standard or atleast most maps have to be made more open.

Also I wanted to get back about my idea of the formation indicator as posted on the previous page.

I made some quick example drawings in paint to make it a bit more clear:


The first one shows a basic horizontal line formation with 4 persons (green circles) watching north (orange "V" shape).


Shows the same formation with one soldier outlined in red to make clear he's out of formation.


Another line formation only this time vertical.



The last two basically show the same 360 degree formation only #4 is a square shape and #5 a circle with this time 5 persons.

This could be placed in a little corner on the screen always ready to be viewed.

Also because the system detects when people are out of formation it could even be used to punish players that refuse to play together, although this should be thought out well first.

The reasons I think this would be a good tool to have is to promote tactical gameplay online, with less hassle because people speak a different language, and you don't have to be a pro to use basic tactics with this.

Also it enhances the situational awereness that's better in real life so you can quickly see where everybody is looking at so you know which parts are covered or not.

Also I think it would be great to have a tutorial (also online so you can practise with friends) where you are tought to use proper team tactics like: moving around, leapfrogging etc.. As well to encourage and learn to play tactical.

Edited by Tchaikovsky
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