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Making us happy with GRAW2 is straight forward


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It seems to me that the roots for a great game are already in place. And although many would say they feel cheated by GRAW in its first encarnation, the fact is that making hardcore players happy isnt really that far off, using the current game as a base.

1. Solidify the net code. Make it stable. Get rid of diconnects and crazy interface choices.

2. add more Server options. Bascially, take a look at server fatures from the very games that people still love such as [GR] and Raven shiled etc, and emulate them. Add them.

3. Add more movement possabilities like variable lean, underhanded nade throwing etc.

4. improve the AI, both freindly and enemy.

I guess what I am saying here is that despite all the bithcing out there, GRAW is a good game. There is no reason to abandon its current direction. Simply continuining to develop it in the direction of a more well rounded game is all that is needed.

My list is by no means all that is needed, but I hope that GRIN will simply view there project as imcomplete and continue to work towards its completion rather than lose ground by redirection in their efforts toward GRAW 2.

Now I know may will call me a heretic and say that such development should be a free patch and not another game. But I am a realist. If they pull it off, then i would look at it this way.... shooters cost 50 bucks a pop and real tactical games with great servers and SDKs now cost 100 bucks. 50 upfront, and 50 at closing...

And finally, i cant help but wonder something. Even if we as hardcores are a very vocal minority, i wonder if our vocal ways actually squash sales or make them? in other words, even though the masses may not be clammering for hard core games like [GR], i wonder if we when we stamp approval on something all over the net, if the purchase results are very good. like a 10 times multiplier or something....

Edited by Sleepdoc
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Just give me some different weapons (mainly different sniper rifles like an M24 of a L96 etc), M4, smoke grenades. A choice of different camo schemes (woodland, desert etc)...specific classes (sniper, demolitions, rifleman etc). It would be nice to have different enviromental conditions too like RAIN, snow and little touches like that. Little things like the mist from your breath are cool little things that make a game look complete.

ROE!!!

Recon, assault, advance at all costs...I really miss those in GRAW.

Apart from that, I really like GRAW, I understand some other people don't but thats just your opinion...

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Yea i guess i haven't got around to considering it since i got my GRAW just today but the weapons list is pretty slim, although there seems to be just about every type i'd need.

I don't see the hundreds of millions of options that was touted in the early days. ;)

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What about being able to hide in cover.. specifically, grass.

I would love to see damage effects as well. Nothing like limping along..

Rain would be great..

More interactive enviroment .. distructable buildings, throw a nafde at a tree and it falls (just not sure the engine can handle that?)

Also being able to crawl/stradle over boxes, or other objects about hip heights... havie ti slow your progress a little?

Oh ya.. and what they said..

Edited by IrishStout
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What GRAW nees imo, (read my sig wishlist for the long version) is: reintroduction of true stealth, replayability and polish.

  • Stealth: Involves improving the AI, both friendly and enemy to make it feasible. That means no spotting you half-way across the map with just your head poking out, better reactions and consequences to being discovered, payoffs for success and ROE commands.
  • Replayability: Stealth in and of itself will open up the gameplay options somewhat, but the addition of some randomization (already available in the game's scripting) to the stock campaign would be welcome. A fully functioning mission editor with simple point-and-click/drag-and-drop functionality would also be an impressive asset in that regard.
  • Polish: That includes net-code, Anti-cheat behaviour, graphical glitches and instability issues. They're insignificant in isolation, but all together they tend to put you off a game.

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Indeed not much needs to be done to make it more enjoyable.

I would imagine with an updated engine which I assume has been done more will be possible.

I feel mission modding/player numbers/in coop need the most time, more varied enviroments in as well.

The new game needs to be be tournament ready at release.

This I feel is the only hole that needs pluged, most of the smaller things like movement/weapons/animation/will be automatic with an improved engine.

I hope we dont see a drastically changed game in GRAW2 as I feel GRAW 1 was very close but not quite.

My faith is good though the Dev Team have spent so much time here in the last 18 months, they know too what is needed.

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My faith is good though the Dev Team have spent so much time here in the last 18 months, they know too what is needed.

Or else they just figured out you're all completely impossible to please, and gave up developing the game for this part of the community altogether. :unsure:

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or else ?

they made a RPG out of graw 2,

you can chose which caracter you play with and there is a whole world to explore.......

you start off by learning basic skills and movements in a forest with elfs and gnomes....

*damn wrong forum :S*

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I'll reiterate what I've said for months;

1) mod tools. the modtools say when i make a custom map, the export tool has check boxes for say, dirt, mud, asphalt, whatever. then when you click on export, the exporter generates the xml files according to the materials you use(d)

2) redo the game engine.

3) redo the sounds so audigy cards don't crackle

4)add more sniper weapons, M24SWS, M-14 Mod zero etc.

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The smart money says you're getting little, if any, of this stuff...

Not nice to burst the bubble of some who think GRIN is going to do an about face and make GRAW 2 a game we'll never forget with all we want and need. :P
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And I agree that such would be VERY COOL. Do I think GRIN has the talent? CERTAINLY! Do I think GRIN has the desire to give us something we'll tout for years as the 'greatest FPS yet?' ABSOLUTELY!

Do I think UbiShaft will let them give us anything more than an ever-so-slightly updated GRAW? Not a chance.

Allow me to don my tin foil anti-mind-reading hat for a moment, and offer the conspiracy theory. UbiSoft, being the HUGE international video game publisher they are, and having just recently (in relative terms) realized the great profit potential of console games (less development money spent and more sales), hopes to reduce the overall market focus on the relatively expensive PC titles by using a good game with BIG potential, and a relative newcomer developer (no offense, GRIN) to demonstrate to the world how PC title development just can't keep up with console title development, and how consoles are the 'way to go' for gamers. Less and less folks are going to want PC titles, and the accompanying HUGE expenses that come along with upgrading or replacing PC's to keep up with the system requirements, just to get all the bugs that come with. And so, the demand for PC titles will continually decrease, and they can blow-off the relative few remaining PC fans to spend more effort on publishing console titles and sleep well at night.

The Illuminati made me say it.

Elvis lives.

Bigfoot is real.

[/foil_hat]

I can't believe the stuff that comes out of some people's minds...

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And I agree that such would be VERY COOL. Do I think GRIN has the talent? CERTAINLY! Do I think GRIN has the desire to give us something we'll tout for years as the 'greatest FPS yet?' ABSOLUTELY!

Do I think UbiShaft will let them give us anything more than an ever-so-slightly updated GRAW? Not a chance.

Allow me to don my tin foil anti-mind-reading hat for a moment, and offer the conspiracy theory. UbiSoft, being the HUGE international video game publisher they are, and having just recently (in relative terms) realized the great profit potential of console games (less development money spent and more sales), hopes to reduce the overall market focus on the relatively expensive PC titles by using a good game with BIG potential, and a relative newcomer developer (no offense, GRIN) to demonstrate to the world how PC title development just can't keep up with console title development, and how consoles are the 'way to go' for gamers. Less and less folks are going to want PC titles, and the accompanying HUGE expenses that come along with upgrading or replacing PC's to keep up with the system requirements, just to get all the bugs that come with. And so, the demand for PC titles will continually decrease, and they can blow-off the relative few remaining PC fans to spend more effort on publishing console titles and sleep well at night.

The Illuminati made me say it.

Elvis lives.

Bigfoot is real.

[/foil_hat]

I can't believe the stuff that comes out of some people's minds...

So we are going backwards?

I mean, we got the old realistic PC shooters like OFP, GR, R6, RS. But now, if your chaos theory is true, we will get more console games and everybody know that you can't make a console shooter more realistic than a PC shooter, mainly becouse it's way to hard to aim with a gamepad :mellow:

Backwards...

However I still belive PC-gaming will survive, especially now when Vista and DX10 comes out.

We have survived Atari, SEGA and Nintendo consoles before. I'm sure we can/will survive Microsoft and Sony stuff too.

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any thing we get from grin that is (what we want in) additional content to what we have in graw is IN, at least for me

every little step closer to ROE, modding, weapon realisme and diversity,

stealthy recon... etc. is one step closer to perfection.

i will not reject any step towards that, i aplaude it

whether it comes in graw2 or not we will have to see, but i will not go dark untill it is dark.

i firmly believe grin can pull off a great GR title graw being a good start from scratch but not quite IT, they know roughly what to improve

and ubi knows that our voice does help the game make or break

so they will be smart and give in a little (or they must be non interested in PC gaming what so ever and lose money they could have gained)

i do not have blind faith, but faith non the less in grin and their potential

and willingness to make something good....

i still remember bo say something about making a lasting game some time before the demo.

i still think he ment that, and graw2 might be his word to it

does any one have a tin-foil-hat tutorial ??

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-Athenian' date='Dec 31 2006, 04:38 PM' post='442409']

RED STORM, plz come back!!!!! We love u guys!!!!!! :rolleyes:

It more like UBI GO AWAY! Publishers should be banned. Even if RSE did "come back" they are still under the influence of UBI.

"THANK you! I keep telling him that..."

Remove the bungling blue bunghole (UbiShaft) from the game.

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-Athenian' date='Dec 31 2006, 03:38 PM' post='442409']

Publishers should be banned.

?

Cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Developers make the game and the publishers put the game in a box and ship it to your local retailer. One can't exist without the other.

The constant bashing of Ubisoft used to be amusing...now it's just old. Ubi is in the market for a profit and they won't abandon a market segment until that segment is exhausted, and that is not going to happen for a long, long time.

Happy New Year!

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I believe Steam is a publisher of sorts and as far as i know they have zero input on what a game should be. They just look at the finished product and whack it on Steam if the dev and they can come to an arrangement that both are happy with.

All that needs is for the devs to survive without an upfront payday until the game is finished and to somehow launch the game on Steam then use the first month revenue for marketing.

Not the best launch strategy but at least it gives the dev total freedom from scum like UBI.

Colin i don't mean to be rude but your totally concilliatory tone really makes me wonder if you are a paid UBI plant sometimes. Either that or such a fan of GRIN you see it as your job to mitigate any negativity at all.

You seem to have a sophisticated way of recognising how much negativity there is and how far you can sway it back without goiong over breaking point and loosing cred.

Sorry to sound accusing, i don't mean to but if you are not a plant then my question is 'don't you 'ever' just wanna rail on things rather than always tell everyong 'it's really not that bad'?

Sure GRIN have talent. But that's not the same as judgement. I find it hard to trust that they will do they right thing with GRAW2 when they just decided one day 'hey, how about realeasing GRAW without TDM'. How much can they know or care what we want then they could come up with that gem.

It's almost like, in response to the ghost recon classic campaign they decided to come up with a gaffe that was equal in imensity to the coke cola company cancelling coke for new coke.

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Just to throw my 2 cents in real quick. I think GRIN did an awsome job with this game considering they never built a tac sim game before. I just hope they realize they are on the right path and keep going and doing what they have been and not to second guess thier direction they took which was to make a sophisticated,difficult, challenging game to play. PLEASE dont think you have to dumb down the game.

Of course ther is always room for imporvments. I personally think the game as is would be PERFECT if

1_everyone had better gaming rigs

2_No Freakin Dimonds Option

3_Mission Scripting capabilities. If Graw had hundreds of missions to play with story lines and scenarios, just like we did with [GR], this game w ould be an all time classic game.

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I believe Steam is a publisher of sorts and as far as i know they have zero input on what a game should be. They just look at the finished product and whack it on Steam if the dev and they can come to an arrangement that both are happy with.

All that needs is for the devs to survive without an upfront payday until the game is finished and to somehow launch the game on Steam then use the first month revenue for marketing.

Not the best launch strategy but at least it gives the dev total freedom from scum like UBI.

That's the problem. Ubisoft bought the rights to these things, so rather than being just a publisher they have an overall say on everything. They buy devs (or at least contract them) rather than having the devs come to them. I don't think there's a word for what Ubisoft really is because it doesn't actually produce games and it does more than just publish them. Or so I've been led to believe.

On that note....GO STEAM!

1. [Thing that should not be spoken of here IAW Forum Rule 3.7]/DVD needed

2. No worries of a lost CD key

3. No Starforce/SecuROM/Safedisc etc etc necessary

4. Auto-updates so you don't have to scourge the net for a decent connection to download a patch

5. All the other things I completely forgot about...

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Just to throw my 2 cents in real quick. I think GRIN did an awsome job with this game considering they never built a tac sim game before.

Actually, I think they made a tac sim for the Swedish army before. Quite a long time ago I think. That's the rumor anyway.

True or false Willie?

Edited by Hockeystick
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steam... you don't know what you are installing untill you have installed it

and i thought ubi soft had a software dev department....

otherwise one could call it franchising or outsourcing

not that it matters much

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