MP Gameplay

[Judge_Recluse]

JR? lol.. ok

I know what your talking about. But as with the demo, the good players are already are figuring out the cutoff, and choke points. Thats why you see people dying within the first 5-10 seconds of the game. Once they figure out the map, and the amount of time it takes to get from point A to point B, it will be just like every other shooter. Spawn,run to cutoff/choke point, camp, see bad guy come around the same corner like they always do, kill them. The only way to turn the tide in the game right now, is beat the other person to the choke point and kill them first.

At least with the 4 random spawns, the choke points change.

With [GR] there was no possible way to know exactly where the enemy spawned unless you were some kinda math guru. Yeah you knew the 3 other places they could have spawned at, but not the exact one till you ran into them. We had the custom command maps as well, so I know what your talking about, but at the start of a match it did not tell us where they spawned.

Also... from what i can tell your saying.. you played with respawns. We did not. So spawn killing was not an option.

For pub play, random spawns really does not make much of a difference, it changes things up a bit, but matching is where it shines.

Im not here arguing for the public play, thats just chaos on a large scale, where loners reign supreme, and the only way to have any tactics is to clan stack, or force people to join teamspeak or vent. In which case you end up dealing with the occasional loud mouth. Im not downing pub play, thats where Im at when not matching, but its not why I started this thread.

Im here on the behalf of the people that like to match and compete. Maybe Im in the wrong forums?

[Papa6]

what will suck is, since you play with no respawns, then if someone drops you in those 5 to 10 secs, you're spending more time waiting in the lobby to play again.

now, maybe if the extend the zones a bit more like say the one spawn by the tunnel, extend it across that valley directly north. and the other extend it south.

Now this does two things, since there's going to be some amount of invulnerability unless some admins are ignorant, if a spawn killer gets too close someone can spawn and nail him. after awhile, in games with respawns, they will have to tire by getting so close they get waxed so often that they tire of spawn killing and back off to protect themselves.

But I'm sure servers who aren't matching at that time will maybe have 2 or 3 spawns. matches won't have any but admins can change that anyway.

so if we can extend the spawn zones, then maybe , just maybe make spawn killing in-effective or impossible to some extent.

I'll be honest, most servers I play on don't have match settings(respawns off) on and respawns are normal but maximum 3.

[RAbbi_74]

Nope. [GR] had 4 spawn zones. Sure, maybe you DID usually know where the other team was spawning. But to implement a true random spawn zone selection, SIX FREEKIN' YEARS LATER, shouldn't be hard at all.

Further, this single insertion point crap is something we were largely united in whining about in GRAW. Now who was it that was telling me how much GRIN and UbiShaft listened to and addressed our concerns from GRAW?

[theWalrusKing]

man i feel like I posted this somewhere, cause I came here to post it here too.

yes this is really a show stopper for me, you dont even need to get to choke points only 50 feet from spawns and witha sniper rifle you can see the exits to spawn points and just sit there and nail away.

how this is a good thing i dont know. also it gets the game feeling VERY repetitive, all you do is exit spawn, go to choke point, fight. Its not like it should be where you exit spawn, find a spot and look all around, for many diff avenues of enemies. Ironically I believe the real problem with the game is that the maps are too small, if the demo map is normal/ because its easy to run into poeple, remember the original GR those maps could be big, open but still saw alot of action.

The demo map sucks because its a valley, snipers can just sit on the hill sides and look for movemtn and fire down. if it was flatter snipers wouldnt have it so easy. After saying this the map does a great job on obstructing views throughout, but it will be great to play another map for once.

As it stands right now I think alot of people see this as a deal breaker. Id buy this game for MP the single player in GRAW1 i felt was not very rewarding. If the MP is sorta ok i will wait till i get this one on sale, and continue playing GR1.

[Peace]

Good one Recluse It is definitely worth to emphasize on.

For more posts about it, see this thread:

http://www.ghostrecon.net/forums/index.php...=41048&st=0

(includes a couple of other issues, but unfortunately I have kind of given up about the replays and injury model by now)

and another thread from GRAW 1:

http://www.ghostrecon.net/forums/index.php...2&hl=random

Please note that multiple insertion zones with a random insertion option a´la GR will not prevent spawn camping when playing with respawns. Also, the random feature is purely for the first spawn Any subsequent respawns (if playing with those) are set to the same zone as insertion (first spawn).

The beauty of multiple insertion zones with a random insertion option is mainly for no respawn games where:

1) The team does not know where the enemy team has spawned, which...

...creates a greater suspense in the game (i.e., not the same running to pin down the typical choke point locations, although it will never be fully prevented)

2) Greater variety of direction of firefights and use of covers etc

3) Greater replay value of each map,

Instead of GRAW's only 2 scenarios in T vs T MP, there are 12 scenarios each map with 4 insertion zones in GR!!!!

GR spawn

Team vs Opponent team

Red vs Blue

Red vs Yellow

Red vs Green

Blue vs Red

Blue vs Yellow

Blue vs Green

Green vs Red

Green vs Blue

Green vs Yellow

Yellow vs Red

Yellow vs Blue

Yellow vs Green

Note, In GR you could either play RIZ =random insertion zones or SIZ = set (predictable) insertion zones. The above scenarios depict the pssible turnout of RIZ on any map. The insertion zones (color coded) were typically in each corner of the map.

GRAW spawn

Team vs Opponent team

South vs North

North vs South

Gamesplay and variety is supposed to progress (or at least stay the same), not regress...

[GHOST_Sup]

The spawn points must be somewhat programmable. Look at Recon Vs Assualt. It seems there are 3 different spawn points per side. Maybe it will be up to the map makers to save this feature? (and to put more green in the maps as well...LOL!)

Edited June 23, 2007 by GHOST_Sup

[Cangaroo.TNT]

YAY! I get to say it again:

There are random spawns for the rebels in RvA. Maybe that feature can be carried over to other gametypes.

[GHOST_Sup]

Hey, I've got a great idea!!! There are random spawns for the rebels in RvA. Maybe that feature can be carried over to other gametypes. LOL!

[Cangaroo.TNT]

Hey, I've got a great idea!!! There are random spawns for the rebels in RvA. Maybe that feature can be carried over to other gametypes. LOL!

Where have I read that before????

LOL

[=AO=Stryck_9]

I was playing with a couple of clanmates we were the Ghosts on RvA and had blown adats b and c and were stealthing our way to adat a when all of a sudden 4 rebels spawned around me , and I mean all around me . I felt like Michael Biehn in that scene in aliens where he looks above the ceiling tiles and saw all the aliens were in there. I go ahhhh! and opened up with my AR and killed 2 before I got killed. It was their bad luck to spawn in that spot at that time and my fortune but I still got called a spawn camper. Trust me I had no idea that I was in the spawn till the respawning team scared the crap out of me.

But it goes to show that random spawn sites are a must and that random is better than just having multiple spawn points. As people do learn the spawn points and using them to their advantage is also a human trait so the game should give both sides some sort of protection against those who would camp in or near the spawn and cap the joining players

[Cangaroo.TNT]

^ As you learned (the hard way) there ain't no point in spawn camping in RvA.

[Judge_Recluse]

YAY! I get to say it again:

There are random spawns for the rebels in RvA. Maybe that feature can be carried over to other gametypes.

Your right its there. But the problem you run into, is 9 times out of 10 gaming leagues will not let mods be used in matching. They make exceptions, and there are mods that are used, but you rarely see it.

So it would be nice to see something official. And if you play in TWL, even then they have to test new official content to see if its ok to match with.

As it looks, GRIN did listen to us about multiple insertion points, they just did not listen to the details, and added it to the wrong game types.

[Cangaroo.TNT]

As it looks, GRIN did listen to us about multiple insertion points, they just did not listen to the details, and added it to the wrong game types.

As far as we know

[dE.Maestro]

As it looks, GRIN did listen to us about multiple insertion points, they just did not listen to the details, and added it to the wrong game types.

Agreed. It shud be easy enought to make 4 spawn zones like in [GR] , and as addon ther shud be possibility to add 4 teams so we can have TvTvTvT matches .. ahh wet dreams

[Judge_Recluse]

As it looks, GRIN did listen to us about multiple insertion points, they just did not listen to the details, and added it to the wrong game types.

Agreed. It shud be easy enought to make 4 spawn zones like in [GR] , and as addon ther shud be possibility to add 4 teams so we can have TvTvTvT matches .. ahh wet dreams

You know thats funny, I forgot all about the TvTvTvT. Although we never matched that way, we would have some great inter clan tourneys, using that mode. Good point

[dE.Maestro]

You know thats funny, I forgot all about the TvTvTvT. Although we never matched that way, we would have some great inter clan tourneys, using that mode. Good point

I had few good TvTvT matches , and on league i was on wining multiteam battle was worth alot of points .

It si a functionality that shud go with multiple spawn area , so maybe instead we ask for multiple spawn zones we shud ask for up to 4 teams in TDM ... .. if we win we get both

[Cangaroo.TNT]

Would that be kinda hard with (essentially) only 2 skins? Or is there enough variation in the GRAW 2 skins? Or, would your team ALWAYS wear the Ghost skin, while everyone else wore the Rebel (and each team would always have that perspective)?

[dE.Maestro]

Would that be kinda hard with (essentially) only 2 skins? Or is there enough variation in the GRAW 2 skins? Or, would your team ALWAYS wear the Ghost skin, while everyone else wore the Rebel (and each team would always have that perspective)?

good point

thought i do not care if we all looks like clones if i can have 4 teams/spawns . Big gain in playability/tactics/fun for minor eye candy loss. GHOST/REBELS may be renamed to TEAM1 to TEAM4 or RED, BLUE,GREEN and GOLD

[Peace]

As it looks, GRIN did listen to us about multiple insertion points, they just did not listen to the details, and added it to the wrong game types.

Unfortunately it looks so. We'll have the answer July 13 I guess...

Still, if there is the slightest chance that GRIN have the possibility to make it into an official patch, i.e., 4 insertion zones with a random insertion option for T vs T a´la GR, I'd strongly recommend GRIN to do so. It would likely boost the official matching and ladders. The reason why?

These are some actual comparisons between GR and GRAW to put perspective on things when it comes to gameplay variability and flexibility:

GR 10 months after release:

48 official maps available for T vs T LMS or HH (LMS = TDM) in varied environment (urban, rural, djungle, desert, forrest, mountain, swamp, wilderness etc), each map with 4 spawn zones and a random insertion option (for 1st spawn) =12 scenarios each map.

= 576 different scenarios for T vs T matches

GRAW 14 months after release:

7 official maps available for T vs T TDM, each with only 2 insertion zones and no random insertion option

= only 14 scenarios for T vs T TDM matches.

Please GRIN and UBI, don't repeat the same mistake in GRAW 2 as in GRAW!

Please consider:

4 insertion zones per map so the foundation for gameplay variability in matches and good laddering will significatly improve! Why cripple a succesful concept for insertion zones in MP T vs T?

And remember, modded maps or other mods in is usually not supported by ladders. It has to be official. Ladder admins don't have time and patience to go through all the variety of maps and mods that appear for various games. The game has to be ready from box (or with official patches). See also Judge_Recluse's post earlier.

Wouldn't it be nice to see a strong laddering GRAW 2 community?

[Cutter]

1. Multiple insertion zones on each map with random or set insertion option

Note, start up GR if you do not understand what I mean. In GR you had 12 spawn scenarios T vs T instead of the only 2 spawn scenarios in GRAW 1 and GRAW 2 Demo[Edit]

This will increase variability through:

1) not knowing where enemy has spawned

2) increased variability of direction of firefights, use covers, strategy etc.

3) replayability of each map and pure fun of gaming.

The GRAW maps were all large enough and could have fitted 4 zones easily.

2. More punishment for being hit

Immediate effect - more pronounced viewspinn, loss of "scoped in" view, random fall etc

Permanent or long lasting effect - Limp, slow reload etc

3. Replays

I remember asking for random spawns for GRAW, sure was hoping they would implement it in MP this time. Makes it so much better for the reasons you listed above.

[B52]

As it looks, GRIN did listen to us about multiple insertion points, they just did not listen to the details, and added it to the wrong game types.

Unfortunately it looks so. We'll have the answer July 13 I guess...

Still, if there is the slightest chance that GRIN have the possibility to make it into an official patch, i.e., 4 insertion zones with a random insertion option for T vs T a´la GR, I'd strongly recommend GRIN to do so. It would likely boost the official matching and ladders. The reason why?

These are some actual comparisons between GR and GRAW to put perspective on things when it comes to gameplay variability and flexibility:

GR 10 months after release:

48 official maps available for T vs T LMS or HH (LMS = TDM) in varied environment (urban, rural, djungle, desert, forrest, mountain, swamp, wilderness etc), each map with 4 spawn zones and a random insertion option (for 1st spawn) =12 scenarios each map.

= 576 different scenarios for T vs T matches

GRAW 14 months after release:

7 official maps available for T vs T TDM, each with only 2 insertion zones and no random insertion option

= only 14 scenarios for T vs T TDM matches.

Please GRIN and UBI, don't repeat the same mistake in GRAW 2 as in GRAW!

Please consider:

4 insertion zones per map so the foundation for gameplay variability in matches and good laddering will significatly improve! Why cripple a succesful concept for insertion zones in MP T vs T?

And remember, modded maps or other mods in is usually not supported by ladders. It has to be official. Ladder admins don't have time and patience to go through all the variety of maps and mods that appear for various games. The game has to be ready from box (or with official patches). See also Judge_Recluse's post earlier.

Wouldn't it be nice to see a strong laddering GRAW 2 community?

Peace...You are my idol, I confirm everything that said also by name of my clan.

[BOTA:X]

My largest complaint is the hit points right now. It makes the game too frustrating to me when I can shoot a guy in the center of his chest and instead of him falling over in agony, he manages to scope my head. That isn't tactical. That's Counter Strike.

The server browser could use some work, why have columns if you can't sort them? How about a server info button? Finding my friends have typically gone like this:

X: What server are you guys in?

16: Its a team deathmatch, 32 man.

X: Do you know if it's Dallas or Chicago?

16: I don't know, USA something.

X: How many people are in there now?

16: About twenty.

X: OK I think I'm coming in, do you see me joining?

16: Uh no.

X:

[Forrester]

Would that be kinda hard with (essentially) only 2 skins? Or is there enough variation in the GRAW 2 skins? Or, would your team ALWAYS wear the Ghost skin, while everyone else wore the Rebel (and each team would always have that perspective)?

good point

thought i do not care if we all looks like clones if i can have 4 teams/spawns . Big gain in playability/tactics/fun for minor eye candy loss. GHOST/REBELS may be renamed to TEAM1 to TEAM4 or RED, BLUE,GREEN and GOLD

I requested this a looooooong time ago, before the beta version, so If they wanted, it would be there in the game

[WhiteKnight77]

My largest complaint is the hit points right now. It makes the game too frustrating to me when I can shoot a guy in the center of his chest and instead of him falling over in agony, he manages to scope my head. That isn't tactical. That's Counter Strike.

What about body armor? If said individual is wearing body armor, he could very well survive as evidenced by the video from Iraq where the medic was shot and just fell down and got right back up to see where the shot came from.

[Peace]

My largest complaint is the hit points right now. It makes the game too frustrating to me when I can shoot a guy in the center of his chest and instead of him falling over in agony, he manages to scope my head. That isn't tactical. That's Counter Strike.

What about body armor? If said individual is wearing body armor, he could very well survive as evidenced by the video from Iraq where the medic was shot and just fell down and got right back up to see where the shot came from.

WK, what Bota:X means (I think) is that there is very limited effect when hit, not in line with GR damage model.

When taking a non-leathal bullet hit in e.g. the chest, I think you should not be able to return fire accurately within a fraction of a second as you can in GRAW. It is bad for the gameplay.

In the video from Iraq you can precisely see that the medic falling over. He does not stand like a rock and give returning fire within 2/10th of a sec.