MP Gameplay

[Peace]

1. Multiple insertion zones on each map with random or set insertion option

Note, start up GR if you do not understand what I mean. In GR you had 12 spawn scenarios EACH MAP T vs T! instead of the only 2 spawn scenarios in GRAW 1 and GRAW 2

This will increase variability through:

1) not knowing where enemy has spawned

2) increased variability of direction of firefights, use covers, strategy etc.

3) replayability of each map and pure fun of gaming.

The GRAW maps were all large enough and could have fitted 4 zones easily.

2. More punishment for being hit

Immediate effect - more pronounced viewspinn, loss of "scoped in" view, random fall etc

Permanent or long lasting effect - Limp, slow reload etc

3. Replays

[DisgruntledArchitect]

A big "Hear, Hear!" to Peace's suggestions, and one of my own.

A max/min player population parameter that could be applied to any map within a server's rotation. Any given map would only load if the server was populated by an amount of players between the maximum and minimum number dictated by the server admin.

For instance, a server populated with 20 or more players could be made to avoid rotating through some of the smaller maps, such as Hollow or The Cape, and vice-versa, a server could be made to only rotate through smaller maps until more than 19 players joined.

By applying a max/min setting to each map in the rotation, you could potentially avoid having mindless nadefests when 32 players go at it on Hollow or having the server empty out when 8 players are suddenly dropped into Downtown.

Granted, there are situations where one likes overcrowded, chaotic games as well as slow-paced stalking games, but I've seen plenty of servers lose steam and players when the map rotated to one mismatched to the number of players on.

[RAbbi_74]

I <3 Peace!

Well said, man!

[Peace]

4) Be able to exit game from "after-action-screen" ...for example, Add "Abort" button that takes you back to the server list

[NoQuarter]

A better way to display the variables of the server (other than relying on the MOTD)...Maps loaded for rotation, mod info, etc. Would help in deciding on which to join.

[Poita]

Aborting participation or hosting an MP game should take you back to the server list and not the front end.

I find the play movement mechanic a bit annoying. I don't like it that when i press crouch or prone nothing happens if i'm moving slowly. If i'm running i dive and if i'm standing still i'll lay down but if i'm creeping or walking just nothing happens. I have to first stop, give it a moment to register that i've stopped then press crouch or prone. I'm constantly pressing it and nothing happens. It's really annoying when the game judicates whether it wants to let me do something or not.

Same for fireing. Once i'm weapons free i want to be able to fire no matter what motion, or position im in. Even if it results in my shooting myself in the foot or just spraying wildly with no hope of hitting anything. Again, it feels really annoying knowing that the game is adjudicating. The game knows i'm running so i shouldn't fire or i'm diving onto my belly so i should wait unti i'm settled etc . No, i want the freedom to fire even when i should'nt fire. I want the freedom to make that mistake, waste ammo, give my position away, injure myself even. It just really, really takes away from the imersion that i'm constantly being reminded that the game is being a nanny to me and only 'activating' its self when it decides thats the right time to be able to do such an action.

Also, if i'm a soldier standing or whatever and i spot an enemy i think i could get down on my belly pretty darn quick even if i am holding a heavy weapon and wearinga heavy pack, gravity will do most of the work for me a lot quicker than the game allows. Getting back up i grant can be a bit slow.

I miss the prone lean from GR1 and i'd like a double tap on the left/right key to roll away from danger.

Finally for now, the hand grenade tossing action is strangely unstable. I've played paint ball and had to toss pain nades while under heavy fire and i admit it's very hard to get a good aim in such a hot zone but i don't think the arbitrary way the hand nade view waves all over is very well done. Let's just assume the trained soldier is skilled and cool under fire and let's just have it steady.

** oh and note to GRIN, i've only been playing GRAW for about a week and despite the few niggles above and a few others, don't think i'm negative in total ont he game. I'm really quite impressed with the graphics, some nice dx9 surfaces. I'd say the gameplay in SP is really awesome sometimes. I've had some totally intense moment with ai enemies coming at me and me taking them out while trying to manage my ammo cause they are comming through doorways just a few feet away from me and i can't afford the time to reload. Some really well done game design.

Edited December 30, 2006 by Poita

[ROCO*AFZ*]

1. Multiple insertion zones on each map with random or set insertion option (Note, start up GR if you do not understand what I mean)

This will increase variability through 1) not knowing where enemy has spawned 2) increased variability of direction of firefights, use covers, strategy etc. The GRAW maps were all large enough and could have fitted 4 zones easily.

2. More punishment for being hit

Immediate effect - more pronounced viewspinn, loss of "scoped in" view, random fall etc

Permanent or long lasting effect - Limp, slow reload etc

3. Replays

The above and...

4. Server buttons that auto do the console commands for you. Call me lazy but it's annoying when you misstype a map name when changing for a match. Also add an abort launch button for admin so they can stop it to make changes in case peeps readied up.

5. 0% registered processor usage when no one is in the server. This will help keep server temps down as right now they ramp up with a core being used up all the time.

6. Less trash. Cool effect but annoying. It's client side so... and here is the kicker... try this at home. A person could kick a can around a corner so it's just in the right place that an enemy will kick it when near. Sounds like a good idea right? well here is the kicker. When you move it, the other person won't see it where you put it. they will have no idea that they kick the can as it may be 2 feet to the left or right. When they come to the corner though, you will hear it and they hear nothing. Try it out.

7. Eliminate kicking everyone when changing server settings. This includes game modes. Make them all work like /reload.

8. Optional download all new maps from server so you don't have to download them each and restart over and over and over. Also after download, restart GRAW automatically and rejoin the same server. Make sure the slot for the joiner is reserved until he comes in so it can't fill up.

9. Make all lighting like hollow in 1.35. It is a good toned down version of post effects and I have yet to hear a complaint.

10. Separate gametypes and maps. That way when you create a new map you can play it under seige, TDM, ect.

Currently (and i may be wrong since i am not a modder) each map has to be recompilied for each gametype.

I'll think of more and post them as they come to me

[ROCO*AFZ*]

1. Multiple insertion zones on each map with random or set insertion option (Note, start up GR if you do not understand what I mean)

This will increase variability through 1) not knowing where enemy has spawned 2) increased variability of direction of firefights, use covers, strategy etc. The GRAW maps were all large enough and could have fitted 4 zones easily.

2. More punishment for being hit

Immediate effect - more pronounced viewspinn, loss of "scoped in" view, random fall etc

Permanent or long lasting effect - Limp, slow reload etc

3. Replays

The above and...

4. Server buttons that auto do the console commands for you. Call me lazy but it's annoying when you misstype a map name when changing for a match. Also add an abort launch button for admin so they can stop it to make changes in case peeps readied up.

5. 0% registered processor usage when no one is in the server. This will help keep server temps down as right now they ramp up with a core being used up all the time.

6. Less trash. Cool effect but annoying. It's client side so... and here is the kicker... try this at home. A person could kick a can around a corner so it's just in the right place that an enemy will kick it when near. Sounds like a good idea right? well here is the kicker. When you move it, the other person won't see it where you put it. they will have no idea that they kick the can as it may be 2 feet to the left or right. When they come to the corner though, you will hear it and they hear nothing. Try it out.

7. Eliminate kicking everyone when changing server settings. This includes game modes. Make them all work like /reload.

8. Optional download all new maps from server so you don't have to download them each and restart over and over and over. Also after download, restart GRAW automatically and rejoin the same server. Make sure the slot for the joiner is reserved until he comes in so it can't fill up.

9. Make all lighting like hollow in 1.35. It is a good toned down version of post effects and I have yet to hear a complaint.

10. Separate gametypes and maps. That way when you create a new map you can play it under seige, TDM, ect.

Currently (and i may be wrong since i am not a modder) each map has to be recompilied for each gametype.

I'll think of more and post them as they come to me

Oh, one more

11. Deathcam... true camera view showing exactly what the player see's including scope up and such. Could help in detecting cheaters if we could see EXACTLY what they do.

[Tinker]

#01 Pink Underpants (Squad Member Optional)

#02 SA80

#03 Some built in working doors

Tinker

[Poita]

Rocoafz you can just edit your post instead of reproducing the whole thing then adding number 11.

I'd like to see a game type such as Counter Strike's 'bomb' or 'hostage rescue. . . . Here's the problem, no one wants to make them because they don't want to be accused of ripping CS off but so what as long as the game types theyselves are great and they are.

Those game times are very very very good. They focus the play in a certain area instead of everyone running around all over at random. This causes more strategy and has a defininte objective.

I also want more variety of weap0ns. I've only been playing a week and i'm surprised that there is only one sniper rifle. I'd like a surpressed SR25 and an M98. Also some other machine guns.

[RAbbi_74]

LARGER MAPS! For more players in server. Perhaps up to four teams this time?

I almost fell in love, ROCO. That part about the trash was poetry. I never knew you cared about me so much....

HAPPY NEW YEAR, ALL!

[scope]

All great suggestions. Tinker you read my mind, I miss the L85 in GRAW... If I could have an LSW and L85A2 and a British Army desert camo skin I would never use anything else again lol.

Happy new year to everyone btw, have a good one!

[ROCO*AFZ*]

Rocoafz you can just edit your post instead of reproducing the whole thing then adding number 11.

I'd like to see a game type such as Counter Strike's 'bomb' or 'hostage rescue. . . . Here's the problem, no one wants to make them because they don't want to be accused of ripping CS off but so what as long as the game types theyselves are great and they are.

Those game times are very very very good. They focus the play in a certain area instead of everyone running around all over at random. This causes more strategy and has a defininte objective.

I also want more variety of weap0ns. I've only been playing a week and i'm surprised that there is only one sniper rifle. I'd like a surpressed SR25 and an M98. Also some other machine guns.

I know but read my post... I'm lazy

#12 No disconnects when Joining a server that is changing maps. It's annoying. (you get a disconnected for unknown error

#13 All seeing eye support + Direct IP.(GJ with adding it to the favorites also grin but we also would be able to use a 3rd party utility, click on the server we want and directly join) I don't care if Gamespy or it has an internal browser to verify the cdkey and for new players and such... but i want direct ip support.

Of course i care Rabbi... down with the trash viva la trash

[Jota.RiP]

1. Punkbuster integration

2. Replays

3. More then 2 spawn points

4. More guns and GL less powerful

5. Damage in the arms and legs like [GR]

6. stand Alone Server files since the demo

6.1. A real Stand alone server graphics and options (take a look to [GR] and just get it better)

6.2. Less requirements for a dedicated server. Why the need to a X6800 and 16Gb of RAM for a good dedicated server?!!! No sense on that.

6.3. Xfire and All Seeing Eye support, no more Gamespy. It simply sucks

7. More maps

8. Team Kill auto kick (it could be set in the sever for example)

9. less garbage in the maps... comon, call someone to clean that cans, its disgusting, even in Mexico

10. A demo version 1 or 2 months before the final version.

Take a look to [GR]. We dont want a new generation of graphics. We want a game able to be played in a normal computer without problems.

Take a look to CS to see what we want in a server console or how to do a real server console: its easy and very practique.

My 2 cents.

[Pritzl]

Aborting participation or hosting an MP game should take you back to the server list and not the front end.

Hear! Hear!

It just really, really takes away from the imersion that i'm constantly being reminded that the game is being a nanny to me and only 'activating' its self when it decides thats the right time to be able to do such an action.

Right with you.

I miss the prone lean from GR1 and i'd like a double tap on the left/right key to roll away from danger.

Brilliant suggestion.

5. 0% registered processor usage when no one is in the server. This will help keep server temps down as right now they ramp up with a core being used up all the time.

I'm pretty sure this is a very tall order.

6. Less trash. Cool effect but annoying. It's client side so... and here is the kicker... try this at home. A person could kick a can around a corner so it's just in the right place that an enemy will kick it when near. Sounds like a good idea right? well here is the kicker. When you move it, the other person won't see it where you put it. they will have no idea that they kick the can as it may be 2 feet to the left or right. When they come to the corner though, you will hear it and they hear nothing. Try it out.

I'd rather they fix the glitch rather than eliminate the trash. Besides, user-made versions sans trash shouldn't be hard to make.

11. Deathcam... true camera view showing exactly what the player see's including scope up and such. Could help in detecting cheaters if we could see EXACTLY what they do.

That should be fun. I love watching deathcam.

I'd like to see a game type such as Counter Strike's 'bomb' or 'hostage rescue. . . . Here's the problem, no one wants to make them because they don't want to be accused of ripping CS off but so what as long as the game types theyselves are great and they are.

Another point of agreement. Specially since we are talking special forces, it shouldn't be too hard to design some really interesting missions other than "kill everyone". Here are just a few off the top of my head:

• Assassination: One team tries to assassinate a specific target while the other team tries to protect him. The target can either be AI or just a selected member of the defending team. Dead target before mission end = win for the aggressors, loss otherwise.
  
• Retrieval: One team must reach a specific objective and retrieve an item of sorts. Think "capture the flag" but with a briefcase or something instead of a flag and an extraction point. Scored in absolute terms as success or failure rather than by points.
  
• Infiltrate: One side must get one or more of their men to a specific location on the map while the other team tries to stop them. 3 points for each guy that makes it; 1 point for each opponent killed by either side.
  
• Egress: Team A has just completed a mission and must get out of dodge. Unfortunately, team B is in the way. Again a 3:1 point spread might work to encourage the main objective.
  

Unfortunately, even if GRiN is listening, I suspect it's too late to incorporate any of these ideas into GRAW2.

[Peace]

This is an important issue I forgot about that I hope can be improved in GRAW 2

Syncing of animations of opponents firing at you and hit detection

It frequenly happens that there is discordance between the opponents animations and the shots fired (being hit from bullets when the opponent does not seem to fire at you)

Examples

- You get killed when the opponent is still running with the gun down (just starting to stop and lift the gun when you are already falling to the ground shot)

-You get killed by an opponent facing you in a 90 degree angle or so (just starting to turn as you fall to the ground shot)

PS and yea this is verified several times by severel experienced players, I'm not getting shot by somebody else.

It seems as the shots "fired-hit detection" perhaps has more priority over packages for positioning and movement? or that simply the syncing of these are sometimes out of place? especially under "crowded" conditions and during "fast" game play on servers.

Some may say it is just lag, and fair enough, that may be true but still I do not see the reason that you then get shot before you see the opponents animation of firing at you? These should still be coordinated, shouldn't they?

Or can this be a client problem of low frames? I guess it happens mostly when my frames drop to 20 or so...

I'd very glad if you GRIN boyz could look into this and improve the coding or whatever it takes to reduce this problem.

Thanks for listening, looking forward to GRAW 2

Cheers

[Peace]

Another thing I wish from the devs:

Please consider including the GRAW MP maps , so we can continue to enjoy Shanty Town, Church, Avenues etc in addition to new more open rural, wilderness, djungle and desert maps that I hope come with GRAW 2

[sui317]

the mp maps do have a certain charme....

shanty, stronghold, church, avenue's to me are GRAWtastic and should return in graw2 PLEASE !!!

[NoQuarter]

Please consider including the GRAW MP maps

Hopefully it is a true expansion and all maps are available for play in both 3 & 4. What I'd like to see is the ability to use every map in all game modes and types for SP as well as MP.

[JASGripen]

I agree with most of this, esp, Peace's 2 points. Making modding easier in GRAW2 and have a good AC for the game (at start) will prolong the TvT experience very much.

[Forrester]

I still wonder why it is impossible to port over the SP maps to team deathmatch, just barrier the maps so you can''t get out of the killzone, fix two spawn areas (preferrably more) and go.

On the other hand I'd like to se a map with 4 insertion zones where 4 teams can play eachother, so tdm with 4 teams.

It would be very good to see what you can do there everyone fights a majority of enemy's. do you flank first or go head one, defend all sides or try one side first..... say 4 x 6 people...... so its always 6 against 18.....

[ROCO*AFZ*]

Another thing I wish from the devs:

Please consider including the GRAW MP maps , so we can continue to enjoy Shanty Town, Church, Avenues etc in addition to new more open rural, wilderness, djungle and desert maps that I hope come with GRAW 2

Just to add to this... with post effects like the 1.35 patch did to hollow.

[Cell]

I brought this up once before, maybe not needed as a seperate game type, but options inside each gametype will allow for certain customizations.

Warzone. I loved this gametype for GR1, and it is very matchable, and very tactical. Its a variation of Hamburger Hill with some key differences.

Details: To obtain control of the Warzone (marked by grey smoke) simply run through the central area (smoke) marked on your map. The smoke would then change to the color of the corresponding team. Very similar gametype to HH but the twist that works really well is that You DO NOT have to stay in or around the central area to Maintain Control. The team that maintains control for 3 consecutive minutes wins. After maintaining control for 1 minute you will receive a text message, after 2 minutes you will receive another text message and hear a siren. You can also win by eliminating all opposing teams.

Usually played with zero spawns and a 10 minute timer.

This gametype prevents camping/raping, and is really fun to play....very tactical.

[WhiteKnight77]

You can also win by eliminating all opposing teams.

How does this play into a game with an objective like controlling an area for a set amount of time? If all you have to do is elimiate the other team, you have nothing more than a Team Last Man Standing game. This is what made HH so great in GR. Just eliminating the entire team did not get you a win, controlling the area the longest got you the win even if your entire team was killed.

[Cell]

You can also win by eliminating all opposing teams.

How does this play into a game with an objective like controlling an area for a set amount of time? If all you have to do is elimiate the other team, you have nothing more than a Team Last Man Standing game. This is what made HH so great in GR. Just eliminating the entire team did not get you a win, controlling the area the longest got you the win even if your entire team was killed.

Because if your the only one left you can't camp it out or be camped. The control of the zone is significant in that aspect. In LMS if it is say 2 vs 1 or 3 vs 1, the 3 can go hide and camp and therefore not lose the match. If you did that in warzone, that 1 remaining on the other team can tag the smoke and is therefore in control. Then you go hunting. In HH you have to stay in the smoke to gain points, but if you are the last one left vs a few, your a goner...most likely naded to death.