Cross-com Nirvana

[Pritzl]

I'll be honest that at first I was actually slightly put off by the idea of using the scroll-wheel. I expected it to be clumsy, particularly in the middle of a firefight and it was... at first. Soon though I realized just how effective it was. It became second nature to order the ghosts even while under fire and it's definitely preferable to spending a lot of time on the tac-map. At this point, I can't imagine doing without it. Only major drawback? No way to issue sequential orders.

At one point though I started getting frustrated with how difficult it was to set a ghost in just the right spot so that he was both behind proper cover AND facing the right way. After a lot of trial and error, I finally hit upon a pretty consistent solution which I thought I'd share:

1. First, secure the location part of the order by pointing well back from the exposed edge nearest the threat area.
   
2. Once the ghost is in place, check to see if he automatically faces the right way to cover the threat area. (it does happen)
   
3. If he doesn't, point to where you want him to face and order a cover command immediately followed by a stop command. 9 times out of 10 he will finally do what you want him to do.
   
4. On the 10th instance he may end up over-exposing himself. The reason is usually a poorly chosen cover direction (e.g. too deep around the protective edge) and can be resolved by either choosing a different cover direction (followed by another stop) or simply re-ordering him back into his origianl position. (don't worry, unless you send him too far away, he will actually remember the general direction he is supposed to face and you won't have to go through it all again)
   

Now, if I can only figure out how to keep the ghosts around me instead of well behind me when using the follow command I'll be set. No matter what I do, they're always ~10m or so behind me which is fine if just going from point A to B. Not so much if you're expecting company. Anyone figure out a way around that one?

[AJ59]

It would be SOOOO sweet if you could use the cross com in [GR] COOP mode to send orders to team mates. I mean... we can send the friendly AI... why not real people.

A little colored marked would show up on their maps telling them where to go... or even floating in the air.

That wasn't the question was it??

I use the keyboard as must as possible for the Cross com. It is MUCH faster than mucking with the mouse wheel.

[Pritzl]

I'm keyboard-challenged so I prefer the scroll wheel. I can't tell you how many times I've died because I pressed "Z" or "X" instead of "S" to back away from danger.

[chiles4]

I really find the command system with middle mouse button and scroll wheel to be very awkward. I don't think games should assign mission-critical, often-used functions to the middle mouse button. Of all the "keys' available to a PC gamer, the mid-mouse button has the worst tactical feedback. Compare how fast you can click a key or press the left or right mouse button compared to the mid-mouse button. And it's much worse on some mice than others. I always have to be so careful when pressing it to make sure I'm not spinning it at the same time.

The mid-mouse button is fine for stuff that isn't so critical or is not used when you're deep in the stuff.

The scroll wheel can be great for a lot of things like scope zooming. But how well it works all depends on the way that the software controls it. The combination of "stickiness" between commands and the delays put into the scrolling itself can make or break how responsive and accurate its use is. Unfortunately, this level of smoothness is not built into GRAW's use of the mouse wheel. Way too many times I overshoot or undershoot the selection of the command I want. What bugs me is that stuff like this is so simple to program and modify.

If they wanted to use this type of command system well, they simply had to look at SWAT 4 which lets you accomplish alot without all the fumbling trying to get the right command selected. I'm sure many of you consider yourselves quite capable at giving commands - I'm just saying the accuracy, speed and responsiveness of that "interface" could have been much better.

[Pritzl]

That's interesting. What type of mouse do you have and have you at all tweaked the scroll-wheel's speed? I know that my logitech optical mouse has been exemplary in that regard. I have yet to overshoot a selection in any menu because the "clicks" coincide to exactly one step on them.

[chiles4]

I hadn't played GRAW for a few days so I went in to give another look at using the middle mouse button. And I have to admit it was pretty ugly. I basically am putting the game on hold for a couple seconds and hope I don't get shot in the process of giving a command. I use a typical Logitech optical mouse - which I really like.

Since the time it takes me to issue a command borders on idiotic, I decided to try to pick up the speed to what one would expect to do while under fire and when I pressed the mid-button to pick the command, the mouse wheel turned just enough to ruin my selection.

I compare this to method of giving orders in SWAT 4. The method is:

- right-click and hold

- slide mouse toward you until correct command it highlighted

- let go of right-mouse button

With practice you can do this method extremely fast - in under a second - it's an incredibly smooth and effective method. And that's using the same mouse. Oh well, no biggie, it's not like my AI mates are effective at doing much anyway. And I"m concentrating more on co-op play now anyway. I'm just really surprised that GRIN didn't pick up on the SWAT 4 method - it really rocks.

[RAbbi_74]

Honestly, I feel BF2 has the king of all quick command systems (commo too) with their orders/commo roses. VERY quick. And since I first spotted it in a Tom Clancy title (was it RvS?), I don't guess it'd be bending any copyright rules to use it again for a GR title. Shortly before GRAW was released, I had the commands/orders down to a science. It became reflexive. I didn't even have to look at the rose to know I was calling for a medic or a fire mission or whatever. While the CrossCom functionality is a GREAT thing (pretty well done, GRIN), I feel it can still be improved down the road.

As for the OP's question of getting teammies out in front, I'll offer this advice: Order them where you want to go. Just send MOVE orders to Ghost Team. You'll have to be patient and let them get out in front, and realize that no matter what situation they're in they WON'T keep up with a sprinting leader.But just keep sending the MOVE in short bounds (20-30 meters at a time) and you should be OK. As for using FOLLOW, they'll do just that. FOLLOW. Which means you're out front in harm's way.

[Pritzl]

Yeah, I guessed as much. Thanks for confirming it Rabbi. It would be nice if they maintained their relative positions though; maybe in GRAW2?

Chiles, interestingly enough I find the method you highlighted there even less appealing than my first impressions of GRAW's system. Then again, I now love the scroll-wheel system. Different strokes I guess. Nonetheless, I'm interested as to how many lines you've set your wheel to scroll per "click"? Mine is set to 3. (Control panel > Printers & Other Hardware > Mouse > Wheel)

[RAbbi_74]

Isn't 3 the default setting in XP anyhow? I was looking at that the other day on my new laptop.

As for the relative positions, that's kinda something I'd like to see, too. Order of march, formation (think OFP here) and such. If that could be a CrossCom sub-menu, that'd rock out! Even set a default ROE for actions on contact. Short of receiving orders from CPT Mitchell, when enemy contact is established the team will automatically go to THIS formation, blahblahblah. Know what I mean?

[chiles4]

Chiles, interestingly enough I find the method you highlighted there even less appealing than my first impressions of GRAW's system.

Have you tried SWAT 4 at all? I find it to be very sweet because it's so fast and its as accurate as moving your mouse pointer.

I don't know what my mouse wheel is set to. I never mess much with my mouse other than plugging it in. It's a simple Logitech optical using the XP default driver. I don't mind using the mouse wheel for scope-zooming but I find it a little too rough for fine control. But it's definitely not a game-breaker. If I knew how to effectively use my AI mates in SP I probably wouldn't give a hoot about the interface.

Rabbi, I don't know the BF2 system, can you explain it a bit? I used to play RvS but can't remember much about it.

[Pritzl]

Have you tried SWAT 4 at all? I find it to be very sweet because it's so fast and its as accurate as moving your mouse pointer.

Nope. Read up on it and while it sounds interesting I have some trepidations about the pace of gameplay. I'm not a twitch-gamer - far too slow on the controls.

If I knew how to effectively use my AI mates in SP I probably wouldn't give a hoot about the interface.

Have you tried my facing tip up top? Equip them all with an M4 + scope + silencer + GL and they're incredibly effective with it. (high weapon accuracy, low weight, occasional GL use = death squad) I also tend to arrange them in a nice wide receptacle, two at the back (usually me and one other) relatively close to each other and two up front, wider apart. Any enemy crazy enough to get caught in the middle is often dead meat before I even see him.

[chiles4]

Read up on it and while it sounds interesting I have some trepidations about the pace of gameplay. I'm not a twitch-gamer - far too slow on the controls.

SWAT 4 is actually kinda slow and methodical - not what you'd call a "twitch-shooter". Your goal is to use your tactical aids effectively so you can arrest perps and don't have get into gun battles. Shoot as a last resort - yeah, easier said than done. The only time it gets "twitchy" is when you see the perp's gun muzzle start to raise up. At that point, you probably have less than half a second to fire and take him down.

Thanks for the AI tips, I'll try and use them to get my mates more involved.