Papa6 Posted December 20, 2006 Author Share Posted December 20, 2006 well there's a ubuntu version of linux that is like the damn small distro for ubuntu folks. I'm currently in dapper drake 6.06. I'm Dl'ing the efty edge to do an install. But what made me so damn impressed with ubuntu is, it had drivers for my new epson stylus cx 3800 multi function printer and my digital cam works without proprietary kodak easyshare software. But I'm interested in maybe doing some software development in Linux. sounds kinda cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firefly2442 Posted December 20, 2006 Share Posted December 20, 2006 @ Dannik - Kind of a weird question but, do you think with the advancement of technology and things getting cheaper and cheaper... heck they practically give cell phones away these days.... will software and code become less of a commodity to buy and sell and more of something that is just "out there"? If this happens, I think FOSS will be in a great position. I'm personally still waiting for higher level programming languages to evolve to the point where everyday people can write programs and AI advances to the point where they can write their own code. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROCO*AFZ* Posted December 21, 2006 Share Posted December 21, 2006 well there's a ubuntu version of linux that is like the damn small distro for ubuntu folks. I'm currently in dapper drake 6.06. I'm Dl'ing the efty edge to do an install. But what made me so damn impressed with ubuntu is, it had drivers for my new epson stylus cx 3800 multi function printer and my digital cam works without proprietary kodak easyshare software. But I'm interested in maybe doing some software development in Linux. sounds kinda cool. Was that do to my suggestion? I've seen Ubuntu probably more lately then any other distro. the above is probably why. I still don't think it's at the point where my parents could install it and go. I somewhat agree. Winlinux and Lindows tried to make it but failed in the retail home user market. One reason was not enough bundled apps. Users had no clue where to start on there own. Sadly they became internet pc's and were pulled soon after. (I think i only saw them for 2 months) That and games. Publishers do not make nearly as many OpenGL games. This puts the gamers (that possiby could understand how to load and maintain it) in dual boot or no Linux at all installed on there PC. As for file formats... ? .docs , xls and such can be opened by open office. jpgs by the browser and linux can read ntfs. It's the installers that need to be refined if you want home users. (They like there little wizards and such to pleasantly entertain them as the app installs.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrowmanUK Posted December 21, 2006 Share Posted December 21, 2006 Papa6 you should have done a dual boot mate, if you want to play games you'll have to come back to the dark side, 4 weeks and counting till you reinstall windows... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papa6 Posted December 21, 2006 Author Share Posted December 21, 2006 Linux allows for me to use my digital camera without installing the proprietary software for it. I hit the DL button on my dock and linux opens an interface to allow me to DL the picrtures whereever I want to. Crowman, I don't miss the games. I'm really trying to learn Linux and it works great. funny thing is, i can torrent the latest linux distro, right-click on the .iso and click on "Burn to CD" and i soon have a new DVD of my linux. anyway off to work here. catch you all later! -Papa6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrowmanUK Posted December 21, 2006 Share Posted December 21, 2006 We'll see Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papa6 Posted December 22, 2006 Author Share Posted December 22, 2006 (edited) you'll be waiting. hope you don't hold your breathe. Added: Some may have problems. But it mostly is because of lack of driver support. ADVICE: stay away From lexmark printers. they have proprietary drivers and don't support Linux. But my new epson has great driver support. check with your hardware vendors for linux/Unix support first. Edited December 22, 2006 by Papa6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROCO*AFZ* Posted December 22, 2006 Share Posted December 22, 2006 you'll be waiting. hope you don't hold your breathe. Added: Some may have problems. But it mostly is because of lack of driver support. ADVICE: stay away From lexmark printers. they have proprietary drivers and don't support Linux. But my new epson has great driver support. check with your hardware vendors for linux/Unix support first. As an addon. Stay away from dell printers also...as they are lexmarks designed specifically for Dell Guess you won't be trying out the armed assault demo. I'm downloading it now to windows Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrowmanUK Posted December 22, 2006 Share Posted December 22, 2006 LMAO its ok Roco, he doesnt want to play games anymore, he's gone all "serious" on us Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papa6 Posted December 22, 2006 Author Share Posted December 22, 2006 Naw but i realised something. I got caught up in that gaming fever. You buy one game, play it and then something right after comes along and then on...then on...a never ending cycle. but that's what gaming is. that's how gaming companies make money. But I don't have to fall for that anymore. I'm enjoying linux and am really into learning about it and how it works. But Vista also REALLY helped me to make my decision. XP loses support on 01/08 completely. MS's way of corraling the masses to Vista. Plus Windows is moving to control your PC experience. DRM, telling you what you can and can't play movie and music wise, the product activation, the outrageous pricing...all don't impress me to go to Vista. My idea of gaming isn't based so much on the games but the OS monopoly MS has. But things will really change now DX10 is coming out. anyway, it's back to work for me mateys, I hope you ALL have a merry Christmas and a happy new year if we don't hear from each other before hand. Cheers! -Papa6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROCO*AFZ* Posted December 22, 2006 Share Posted December 22, 2006 Naw but i realised something. I got caught up in that gaming fever. You buy one game, play it and then something right after comes along and then on...then on...a never ending cycle. but that's what gaming is. that's how gaming companies make money. But I don't have to fall for that anymore. I'm enjoying linux and am really into learning about it and how it works. But Vista also REALLY helped me to make my decision. XP loses support on 01/08 completely. MS's way of corraling the masses to Vista. Plus Windows is moving to control your PC experience. DRM, telling you what you can and can't play movie and music wise, the product activation, the outrageous pricing...all don't impress me to go to Vista. My idea of gaming isn't based so much on the games but the OS monopoly MS has. But things will really change now DX10 is coming out. anyway, it's back to work for me mateys, I hope you ALL have a merry Christmas and a happy new year if we don't hear from each other before hand. Cheers! -Papa6 I've only bought and played 3 games in the last 5 years #1 GR + expansions #2 Doom 3 #3 Graw I've played the demo of every other game though out there from BF2 - whatever and haven't found any i liked. I also got many games included free with my video card and sound card purchases (Ravenshield, Splintercell, tombraider and such) And since i'm a tech our Action Pack provided XP and office for free So how much did i spend (besides hardware of course) about 100$ for 5 years of gaming. How much did others? well xp pro oem is 160.00... so even 260 is cheap for 5 years of gaming. And for Windows Vista. Even Ultimate at 400$ retail (betting OEM will be around 300 as we haven't got the pricing on it yet) the most expensive versionwill last you over 4 years, so 100$ a year isn't bad) and if you recently bought xp, you get a free upgrade voucher to Vista (OEM does at least) Oh and to put to rest another rumor.... Windows XP service pack 2's support ends in 2008 as Service Pack 3 is scheduled to release then, just as SP1's support ran out this year. Read up on the SP dates here... http://www.microsoft.com/windows/lifecycle/servicepacks.mspx I love rumors LOL... they spread like wildfire Merry Xmas Papa... i'm at work now... our office is having a party... quizno's in one hand, corona in the other... gotta love the holidays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZJJ Posted December 22, 2006 Share Posted December 22, 2006 But Vista also REALLY helped me to make my decision. XP loses support on 01/08 completely. MS's way of corraling the masses to Vista. I keep hearing/reading this over and over again. It just makes me think utter BS. Just because support ends does not mean that we HAVE to upgrade. I have (actually your source has it) a Win98 machine that still works. (He may have put XP on it now.) When I get it back, I plan to keep (or reinstall) Win98. I'm not looking to upgrade it and there is no support on it anymore. I have no reason to upgrade if it works fine and does what I need it to do. I know people who are still running Win95... without support since 2002! This argument that we are being "corralled" just doesn't float with me as I don't agree with it. No one says we have to have the latest and greatest technology that is out there. MS doesn't control me. I'm free to make my own decisions. As another example, use this analogy. You buy a new TV. It only has one year of support (unless you get the extended coverage). Do you go out and buy a new TV after a year or do you keep using it until it doesn't work anymore? Most people keep using it. The same can be said about an OS. Back to my corner... it's time to take this non techie out of the tech forums. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROCO*AFZ* Posted December 22, 2006 Share Posted December 22, 2006 Very good points ZJJ. The only reason people upgrade is for New sofware or games. if your happy with what you got, it will work until it dies. Just like with TV's. You may only get rid of it if you want a new flat or HDTV. If you have no need, your old one will still work. You just won't have the new features. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firefly2442 Posted December 22, 2006 Share Posted December 22, 2006 Sure, you don't have to upgrade, but there will be more security issues and then MS won't be fixing them since support has ended... not really a great position.... @Papa6 - here's some websites you might like: http://linux.slashdot.org http://www.distrowatch.com http://www.lugradio.org (awesome podcast) As for there being no games well... http://www.linuxgames.com http://www.linux-gamers.net http://www.liflg.org Lemme know if you need any help with Linux. I'm certainly not a guru but I can get around it pretty well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROCO*AFZ* Posted December 22, 2006 Share Posted December 22, 2006 Sure, you don't have to upgrade, but there will be more security issues and then MS won't be fixing them since support has ended... not really a great position.... @Papa6 - here's some websites you might like: http://linux.slashdot.org http://www.distrowatch.com http://www.lugradio.org (awesome podcast) As for there being no games well... http://www.linuxgames.com http://www.linux-gamers.net http://www.liflg.org Lemme know if you need any help with Linux. I'm certainly not a guru but I can get around it pretty well. but xp's support after SP3 will continue onto 2010 probably longer if you have pro as even windows 2000 pro doesn't run out until 2010 And have you really ever had a security issue in MS? be truthful Only one i know of was Code red... and it infected both Unix and Linux pc's and attacked windows from there. All others were possible issues... but as i said... do you really know anyone that has been effected by any of the bulletins? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firefly2442 Posted December 22, 2006 Share Posted December 22, 2006 Well, I'm quite good about getting security updates, virus definitions, and all the rest.... but in the dorms where I live.... basically everyone installs stuff without even knowing what it does. I've tried using their computers and they get to the point where they are so slow and bloated from junk that they are unusable. Now, to be fair, this isn't technically Microsoft's fault, it's the users that are stupid. Eh, like I said, whatever operating system you want to run, it doesn't matter to me. I just think Linux is more stable and the open philosophy that surrounds it entices me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papa6 Posted December 23, 2006 Author Share Posted December 23, 2006 Sure, you don't have to upgrade, but there will be more security issues and then MS won't be fixing them since support has ended... not really a great position.... @Papa6 - here's some websites you might like: http://linux.slashdot.org http://www.distrowatch.com http://www.lugradio.org (awesome podcast) As for there being no games well... http://www.linuxgames.com http://www.linux-gamers.net http://www.liflg.org Lemme know if you need any help with Linux. I'm certainly not a guru but I can get around it pretty well. but xp's support after SP3 will continue onto 2010 probably longer if you have pro as even windows 2000 pro doesn't run out until 2010 And have you really ever had a security issue in MS? be truthful Only one i know of was Code red... and it infected both Unix and Linux pc's and attacked windows from there. All others were possible issues... but as i said... do you really know anyone that has been effected by any of the bulletins? So if the support ends 2010, that's probably due to the fact that Vista was delayed so many times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROCO*AFZ* Posted December 23, 2006 Share Posted December 23, 2006 Sure, you don't have to upgrade, but there will be more security issues and then MS won't be fixing them since support has ended... not really a great position.... @Papa6 - here's some websites you might like: http://linux.slashdot.org http://www.distrowatch.com http://www.lugradio.org (awesome podcast) As for there being no games well... http://www.linuxgames.com http://www.linux-gamers.net http://www.liflg.org Lemme know if you need any help with Linux. I'm certainly not a guru but I can get around it pretty well. but xp's support after SP3 will continue onto 2010 probably longer if you have pro as even windows 2000 pro doesn't run out until 2010 And have you really ever had a security issue in MS? be truthful Only one i know of was Code red... and it infected both Unix and Linux pc's and attacked windows from there. All others were possible issues... but as i said... do you really know anyone that has been effected by any of the bulletins? So if the support ends 2010, that's probably due to the fact that Vista was delayed so many times. And do you know why it was delayed so many times? Lawsuits. Remember ... Microsoft got sued for providing integrated features to help protect you... in the name of being anti competitive. Heck i've talked to a few of the big wigs in the Microsoft system builders and there exact words when we asked why Office wasn't integrated into xp was (well not really words) they put there hands together like they were cuffed and over there back. The reason support is until 2010 is because businesses like Hospitals and such will have finally just moved to XP (all major ones hang out for a while as upgrading 20000+ computers isn't an easy task and they all need to be on the same O/S so all programs are supported by there vendors) Do you know why they don't use linux as the desktop platform? Users (like doctors and such) do not understand it. There is too much of a learning curve and no one sells it for home. MS doesn't force this. The users don't want linux. They are happy with what they understand (although sometimes there understanding is limited). If a tech/user has a question on linux... who do they call? Do they want to spend hours of research or hope someone will answer a question in a forum? No. With MS they can call and get support for free either from MS (if retail) or a vendor like us (OEM). Most Linux distro's like Redhat for example require expensive support contracts. A good example is the lexmark issue papa mentioned. If a vendor has a problem with a windows driver it would be fixed immediately. Linux... well not supported in the desktop platform as usual. Check out issues with simple hp laserjet printers and someone trying to fix them ... http://hpoj.sourceforge.net/_todo-0.8.shtml And here are ones that are... note the release notes http://hplip.sourceforge.net/release_notes.html Most users would say... I don't understand. Your right... it's isn't MS's fault that users are stupid. It's free opensource that has limited funds for documentation that is at fault. If they could translate it to a normal user's vocabulary, then you would see a switch. for now windows is a close as they get. Granted there are some (like postnuke for example) with decent support... but there are so many others with little or none... or vaporware... As for stability... Windows 2003 server at our office. Not rebooted in about over a year (last service pack and updates) Completly stable hosting the antivirus for a 10 user office, Quickbooks, Ghost images and acts as a domain controller, DNS server and DHCP server for the office. It is hooked to the same network home user's pc's are plugged into for updates and such. With all the virus infected pc's in for repair, we have never been infected. Is windows stable. YES. 95 and 98... no. 2000 and 2003 yes. 2000 pro and XP pro yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papa6 Posted December 23, 2006 Author Share Posted December 23, 2006 well that was the reason why MS got jilted in court in the EU. they wanted their product in windows rather then let competitors to build apps for Windows as well. MS used that exact tactic to try and force the competition out. but Vista to my reading shuts out access to the system kernel from 3rd party vendors that I PREDICT! that MS will get sued AGAIN and/or be found guilty of breaching the last lawsuit. Predictions have Linux gaining an even larger share of users in 2007 as a result of Vista. but that will be seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROCO*AFZ* Posted December 23, 2006 Share Posted December 23, 2006 well that was the reason why MS got jilted in court in the EU. they wanted their product in windows rather then let competitors to build apps for Windows as well. MS used that exact tactic to try and force the competition out. but Vista to my reading shuts out access to the system kernel from 3rd party vendors that I PREDICT! that MS will get sued AGAIN and/or be found guilty of breaching the last lawsuit. Predictions have Linux gaining an even larger share of users in 2007 as a result of Vista. but that will be seen. Actually nothing accesses the kernel... the drivers are not even able to. I am assuming you are reacting to rumors about this... http://blogs.msdn.com/windowsvistasecurity.../11/695993.aspx Which is what it truely will do. Truthfully i don't think any software should have kernel access. It's the same as handing an app in linux root access and saying instead of me having a password, i'm giving it to 10 of my friends which i don't think will tell anyone. It's nothing to do with forcing anyone out. It's so malware and viruses cannot access it. Security firms are complaining though... like symantec and such as they are susposed to watch the kernel for changes. This puts them out of the loop and would protect the kernel more... unfortunately MS caved in to them not long ago and released API's to the major vendors. I think the lawsuits are stupid though. think about it. It's there product, yet the law is telling them what they can put in it. If people really cared they would just boycott them. Instead we complain because windows doesn't have this or that while we let the laws cut it into pieces. I mean for example, what if windows didn't have IE in it? What would you use to download firefox? duh. And if it didn't have a media player... would you opt to buy one from a 3rd party? Predictions. 1st year of vista, new pc's will have it. The hobbists of course will to plug away at it. There will be a surge in OEM as all manufacturers will move to it on release and have very limited XP options. but not retail (but it will build) 2nd year retail will take off. Most users probably won't buy it flat out though, but get it with a pc replacement. 3rd year it's the standard and most will say... why did we ever like XP 4th big businesses will move over to the platform. As for linux... it will stay the same unless it somehow markets itself into OEM computers. The arguments you use are the same that was used when XP came out. And look where we are now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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