HELP camping / spawn camping

[sui317]

i've been playing TvT since graw

i really like it and have lots of fun but sometimes i just get confused

some say no camping, and no spawn camping,

spawn camping i can understand up to a point, you don't go to the other spawn to mow them down in their first steps , but i often see and hear people cry about spawn camping when they are well out of spawn or some one

who shoots at them is half a map away and just has a good aim and shoots when the others try to figure out where to go.

camping on the other hand is like a mistery to me,

what is sniping and what is camping ??

i often make the difference in that camping is like hiding in a dark spot or bottle neck, and get any passer by pointblank.

sniping would then be, sitting in a spot, secluded and firing to those in a fair distance.

both would move when compromised,

i often use this tactic, just wait and move from one point to another close by so covering a crossing point or bottle neck or both at the same time

just this evening i found out that some people draw the line very wide,

like on the com station map if you beyond the overpass to pick off people from a nice spot, not even in line of sight of spawn it is concidered spawn camping....

i want to respect the rules of servers but i can't respect them without knowing some definitions

and i think i am not alone in this, often i see people leave after a warning or a server side kill for camping or spawn camping,

can some one or any one who reads this post their view of camping and spawn camping so to make a sort of definition ? or point me to some standards if they are written somewhere ?

i find this to be a hard thing to work out on my own

again i try to respect those who do not want campers and or spawn campers, but every one server or even person seems to have a different definition.

please help me and others understand this spawn/camping issue

HELP !

thanks for your attention

even more when you reply

[ROCO*AFZ*]

It's all a matter of opinon. You will note some servers are different on some maps, and some let there guys do it while yelling at you. We allow it at ours... but... there is only 3-5 spawns with 7 sec invul so you have a danger if your to close and a low kill count before match switch. Core also is a good one that does't care. I mean the whole point is to kill the opposition by any means neccesary.

[IrishStout]

Hey Sui,

It is indeed a very difficult and very grey area in my eyes as well. But having played GR1 and being an admin on a ladder or two.. plus playing GRAW here is my take on the rule.

Spawn Camping - is when an opposing team member sits inside or just outside your teams spawn area and shoots your team as they spawn into the game before they have a chance to move out. Or if there is a known choke point at the spawn, waiting just outside that area and shooting your team where your members do not have a chance to get moving.

Now this is the grey part for me.. I think that as a team if you have managed to push the other team back in to their spawn because your team has over powered the other.. well I think that's just the way war turns out.

But I think the issue is.. everyone just wants at least a chance to move after they have spawned.

Camping - can make matches last forever.. this is when you find a spot on the map that gives you a distinct advantage over the other team and spend a substantial time in that location no matter what or how the game is playing out.

Again, very grey.. I guess, like in GR1, there where some places where, because of glitches, you could not grenade or shoot the guy hiding up on a hillside under a rock ... he has a distinct vantage point and was somewhat indestructible unless you where able to place just the right shot to get your kill. I find however, with GRAW there seems to be very few if any camping spots.. I can't think of to many spots where you can cover all angles..

But to be honest.. most times people cry foul play is when they are getting owned.. "only because they have to be cheating or using foul tactics to be beating me"

Once you figure out that there are better players out their then you.. that usually gives you a bit better chance of survival?

But that's my take..

If by chance of luck you own my team on a round, you may get my respect.. but I shall

never fear you.. but I promise to take that experience and learn from it .. and next time we meet ... it shall be a different game !!!

Edited December 8, 2006 by IrishStout

[JJUK]

Hi Sui,

In [GR] camping and spawn camping id say was a big no no you would get say booted from most servers but you would always get the odd few who would still come on and sit in or on your spawn.

Graw seems to have taken the veiw that as the maps are say, there are no bottle necks they are quite open there are many routes to take and most players go straight to the spawn it is in fact quite hard not to get drawn to the spawn in fact and if you want all the kills then the spawn it is or give em chance and just off the spwan ive done it as have many others, when it happens to you i think just get out of it, most spawn rapers arent that good and can easily be shot snipers are grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr, a good sniper or camper is grrrrrrrrrrr id say worst that spawn campers but if your good at it then so be it,

Best to find a server you play well on get to know them guys and you can enjoy your games. Matching is the best you then play against guys that are there to win but mostly by any means, gets you going different to everyday play.

Jump on tug server any time we also have a TS jump on www.tugteam.com and drop by we can give you the pass.

[sui317]

thanks for the info guys

as my nerv system is somewhat damaged due to some substance abuse... i am very bad at the rush run and gun cqb shoot outs,

i need time to aim thus run from one place to the next just to sit and wait for my prey to come in sight,

but i would hate myself if i was disrespecting people,

(forgive me for this...--->) i played CSS for a short while and SUCKED badly because i could not aim properly, i blame the bad gun settings

but they hate campers, even have camp settings like 5 sec warnings etc.

as today i got server side killed for spawn/ camping i felt bad as i did not want to disrespect any rules,

irishstout thanks for your clear discription,

i hope many others will be so informative so i can make some sort of definition, maybe a thing for a manual for online gaming or a reference for newbies and unaware like me

JJUK thanks for the invitation, your server is already in the favo list

i've just installed TS and for the odd few ventrilo, hope to join a server soon with comms

Edited December 8, 2006 by sui317

[FI_FlimFlam]

Sui as some have said before really it depends on the server and the admins present. Especially on the admins present at the time.

All I can say is if you can find the servers you like to play on, take the time to get to know the rules and their particular unique interpretation by that clan/team/admins and abide by them if you wish to continue to play. You may not agree with their interpretation but if you want to play there just get used to it. If not you'll have to move to anohter server.

[BPR_MiK]

Hi sui it was my british paras server where we server killed you for spawn camping..

basically we say if you overlooking the spawn and not permitting the other team from leaving thier spawn it is spawn camping and we do not allow it.

Although it is hard sometimes NOT to do it (com station being the most obvius map) it is not too hard to do..give the other team a fighting chance and let them get a good game out of it or everyone will stop playing on the server.

Camping is nothing in GRAW as siege requires you to camp and so does HH no spawns which are the two game types we play on our server.

hopefully we will see you aagain ..We are a freindly bunch realy and soon enough you will see we are the same with everyone and i wouldn`t let any of my team spawn camp either...Incidentally we only don`t allow spawn camping on siege when you are on defending side...on attacking side you have to move to the spawn as that`s where the smoke you are supposed to take is.

Happy camping all !!

[semjonov]

They should just add a 5s invulnerability period after spawning, that will teach those chicken######s to fight like a man....this is for appropriate game modes...

I mean, gunning someone down the moment they spawn is ass lame as you can get and I just feel repulsed by the fact that some people on this site even thinks it is a "greay area".

[MrFunkY]

My opinion in this matter is like this:

Spawn Camp = Sit in your own spawn and camp (chicken)

Camp = Sit some where on the map and wait for the enemy to come out... not all the whole round though.

Spawn Rape = Sit in or just outside the enemys spawn and shoot them before they have any chance to move.

[BPR_MiK]

They should just add a 5s invulnerability period after spawning,

Yeah we have a 6 sec. invunarable time but When you spawn the maps are laid out so people can just sit and watch one spot from multiple places and shoot you within 5 steps of your spawn..This gives too much for you to look over before someone guns you down..

If we see people in these places we simple enter the server console and /kill (whoever) is rapeing.

We think this is only fair even though it mean that usually one of our own team members in the game loses a life and makes our own defending harder. Infact i have been shot before while in the console and unable to defend myself but it was worth it to keep the game fair and free of defending spoawn rapers.

[arrowsmile]

If you dont like SC then just leave the server, the admins will soon get the message.

[JASGripen]

Long invulnerability is the key IMHO, 10-12 seconds.

But then again, in a competitive game with respawns then it is gloves off - Aufrollen.

[sui317]

thanks all for answering it does clear up the matter

BPR mik, thanks for your answere, and yes it was your server

no hard feelings from here, just some confusion yesterday

you are still in the favo list and i do not harbour and negative feelings

i just thought i was still far away from spawn and not in a direct line of sight so i needed some answeres

i did not call your name as a server because i respect you all and do not wish any negative press about any one server i enjoy playing on

you run a good server and this is not against the server so i did not call the name

maybe it is a subjective matter where i thought it was a set of defined rules

as i have found that every one has different opinions and the rules apply differently to many situations

as for the com station map, maybe one or two fences to protect the light house side from tower snipers would be a good thing

because any one from tower sniping or shooting towards the light house can thus be a spawn camper

[Pritzl]

I am not too familiar with GR ([GR] or GRAW) etiquette wrt camping but I just wanted to relate my experience from IL-2.

There, it's called vulching as in a vulture circling above the enemy airfield and attacking planes before they are airborne or just after. Simply put, everyone has their own opinion of what is considered bad manners and sometimes their own opinion varies based on the degree of frustration (pwnership if you will) they are experiencing at the moment.

e.g. One guy complained about me shooting him before he got to my altitude?! Err... of course I'm not going to wait for you to get up to my E level before I engage you. That would be stupid.

OTOH, I once got saluted after me and my wingman dropped several 2000kg bombs on a tarmac wiping out several spawners. They were mad at first, but changed their minds when they realized we had done it from 6000m+. Trust me it takes some skill to do so.

Therefore, ultimately, it boils down to the particular server rules. Personally, on the IL-2 war I hosted, spawn-killing was actually encouraged (it happened irl too) by forcing spawners to stay on the ground for at least 5 minutes before taking off. OTOH, I made sure to have multiple, heavily defended airbases and did not apply the one-death-and-you're-out rule to those killed on the ground. Not one player complained iirc. My philosophy is akin to Irish Stout's, provided the mission is designed fairly, anyone able to reach and control an enemy base deserves the advantage gained.

[The Blueberry_EBDA]

It's all a matter of opinon. You will note some servers are different on some maps, and some let there guys do it while yelling at you. We allow it at ours... but... there is only 3-5 spawns with 7 sec invul so you have a danger if your to close and a low kill count before match switch. Core also is a good one that does't care. I mean the whole point is to kill the opposition by any means neccesary.

HERE HERE

They should just add a 5s invulnerability period after spawning,

Yeah we have a 6 sec. invunarable time but When you spawn the maps are laid out so people can just sit and watch one spot from multiple places and shoot you within 5 steps of your spawn..This gives too much for you to look over before someone guns you down..

If we see people in these places we simple enter the server console and /kill (whoever) is rapeing.

We think this is only fair even though it mean that usually one of our own team members in the game loses a life and makes our own defending harder. Infact i have been shot before while in the console and unable to defend myself but it was worth it to keep the game fair and free of defending spoawn rapers.

BOO BOO

My opinion in this matter is like this:

Spawn Camp = Sit in your own spawn and camp (chicken)

Camp = Sit some where on the map and wait for the enemy to come out... not all the whole round though.

Spawn Rape = Sit in or just outside the enemys spawn and shoot them before they have any chance to move.

He said Raping,,I bet hes got a cute but....

[Cobblers]

@ sui317 - Another question might be, "when does tactical positioning turn into camping?" But the whole thing comes down to personal taste and you have differing servers to visit to satisfy your gaming needs.

Personally, I have no problem with camping at all, apart from when you are using a glitch. Spawn camping however, is a completely different story and one that is not need at all. That being said, if your opponents are that bad where you push them all the way back into their spawn, well, the best thing then to do is be a sportsman and back off a little to carry on letting then enjoy the game.

But some servers stop it, others don't. It's down to you to find which servers feel right to you. But certainly spawn camping is a fast track to losing friends, respect and getting booted if you do it too often.

[sui317]

@ sui317 - Another question might be, "when does tactical positioning turn into camping?" But the whole thing comes down to personal taste and you have differing servers to visit to satisfy your gaming needs.

Personally, I have no problem with camping at all, apart from when you are using a glitch. Spawn camping however, is a completely different story and one that is not need at all. That being said, if your opponents are that bad where you push them all the way back into their spawn, well, the best thing then to do is be a sportsman and back off a little to carry on letting then enjoy the game.

But some servers stop it, others don't. It's down to you to find which servers feel right to you. But certainly spawn camping is a fast track to losing friends, respect and getting booted if you do it too often.

we mis those animations from [GR] ai where they drink and smoke.

when in a game and you are waiting for a tango or more to get to the siege point or to the hammyhill

you should just wait patiently, but with an idle animation like those from [GR]

as a happy camper i would like to show that in game with such animations

so if you are AFK they should animate the caracter in spawn throwing away a keyboard

but like me waiting for tangos from my dark secluded spots show me smoking or drinking, giving away my position when i do not move every few seconds or reload or change weapons

off course individually managed but for all to see

except for the afk thing which can be managed serverside making it easy for admins and deathcammers to spot afk-ers

oh the imagination

the animation comes with a slight time penalty so to show distraction

[Tom_Anger]

For the most part I don't complain about spawn campers, but will tell my team that someone is attacking the spawn so that I can get some help getting out. I have gone to team websites and looked at stats and when you see stats like a 5 or higer kill-to-death ratio and a leader on the kills, chances are they spawn camp. Stats typically awards people with these high kills, but I believe instead of a metal, they should get some stupid tent with a dorky looking camper.

Surrounding a spawn location is not spawn camping. It is taking control over a general area knowing the enemy can come from a general location. It allows all team members to hold position and maintain the successful turnout. It takes great practice and skill to surround key points on a map where the enemy comes from. If you approach or get right in the spawn area that is where players pretty much cross the line but it is part of the game and will never go away. What results is people will get banned or kicked and teams will be given a label that they are cheaters or spawn campers. There will always be teams that do not like spawn camping, but of those teams there will always be players who may cross the line at times. It doesn't mean the team is bad, but possibly that the player has his/her own way to play and maybe that should be dealt with. Either way - it is part of the game so it is up to the server host to try and convey the message.

[devilhimself]

Sorry if im saying something already said. Didnt have the time to read through the thread.

My opinion:

1. Dont use respawns => no spawn killin

2. If u use'em, u need a game mode like Siege, where the offence is more than welcome to spawn kill defence. Defence is "supposed" to guard the smoke, not attack. (Thats one thing that doesnt fit real competitions. If u wanna win, u'll do what ever it takes)

3. If u play HH w/ respawns, u need a map that is big enough, so that guys in the smoke cant see the other teams spawn.

EDIT: ONLY way to avoid spawn killing and camping would be HH or Siege w/o spawns, right?

Edited December 19, 2006 by devilhimself

[DoG_Auslander]

It's shocking the amount of spawn killing that takes hold in un admined servers. No matter the game mode. Some of the MP maps almost promote it in GRAW. I for one am of the opinion that if you've beat the other team back into the spawn then thats war. But my clan is not of that opinion so I enforce thier view. It's a raging headache and leaves little or no time to playhaving to admin on most of the GRAW MP maps.

It is on a server to server basis as to how its enforced and thats as it should be. I believe our server is one of the strictest in where you can or can't shoot. We don't allow shooting or frags into or out of the spawns. Nor opfors into the spawns. It's a nightmare. But we recruit from other game types and want new players to enjoy the game as much as possable.

I believe a huge part of the problem is many players don't take time to read the load page or in game text. I say this because I tend to look for the best in people. I don't know. But a few friends I've made from other clans, say BDA, have made it easier for me. I used to work on a 3 strike basis. Warn, warn, warn kick. Repeat ban 2 hours. Repeat ban 24 hours. Repeat ban. Now its warn, ban 2 hours. Warn, ban 24 hours. Ban.

Like I said, headache.

[BPR_MiK]

On our server (british paras) we play a lot of siege and don`tr allow spawn rape in the attackers spawn...We punish this with a server kill rather than a kick and kill anyone who goes into the spawn even if they get no kills..

Last night i server killed someone who came back whining he only got one kill and wouldn`t shut up about it..For this he got kicked but usually we find that a server kill or in extreme cases 2 server kills is enough to show people not to spawn rape.

[DoG_Auslander]

On our server (british paras) we play a lot of siege and don`tr allow spawn rape in the attackers spawn...We punish this with a server kill rather than a kick and kill anyone who goes into the spawn even if they get no kills..

Last night i server killed someone who came back whining he only got one kill and wouldn`t shut up about it..For this he got kicked but usually we find that a server kill or in extreme cases 2 server kills is enough to show people not to spawn rape.

As a matter of point Mik.

During the hours on our server where the majority of the players and admins are from the UK, we have very little problem with the rules being broken. I might have to readjust my work schedule and play then.

I have little enough hair left after20 years of being in the Army and old age kicking in

[The Blueberry_EBDA]

I think we should tell grinn to make a server side mod that allows a big yellow circle around the spawn area that can be expanded and contracted acording on whos the admin at the time

Me im

LOL

[DoG_Auslander]

I think we should tell grinn to make a server side mod that allows a big yellow circle around the spawn area that can be expanded and contracted acording on whos the admin at the time

Me im

LOL

Whoot! BB for president!!

[ROCO*AFZ*]

It's shocking the amount of spawn killing that takes hold in un admined servers. No matter the game mode. Some of the MP maps almost promote it in GRAW. I for one am of the opinion that if you've beat the other team back into the spawn then thats war. But my clan is not of that opinion so I enforce thier view. It's a raging headache and leaves little or no time to playhaving to admin on most of the GRAW MP maps.

It is on a server to server basis as to how its enforced and thats as it should be. I believe our server is one of the strictest in where you can or can't shoot. We don't allow shooting or frags into or out of the spawns. Nor opfors into the spawns. It's a nightmare. But we recruit from other game types and want new players to enjoy the game as much as possable.

I believe a huge part of the problem is many players don't take time to read the load page or in game text. I say this because I tend to look for the best in people. I don't know. But a few friends I've made from other clans, say BDA, have made it easier for me. I used to work on a 3 strike basis. Warn, warn, warn kick. Repeat ban 2 hours. Repeat ban 24 hours. Repeat ban. Now its warn, ban 2 hours. Warn, ban 24 hours. Ban.

Like I said, headache.

Set your server to 7 or 8 second invul, then also put it in the message of the day so peeps know. Spawn camping will then go away. (only takes a few times for a peep to get killed by someone with invulerability before they change servers or back off.

that is what i do believe the easiest way to deal with it. In 8 seconds you should be able to clear most guys out of direct view of you and the spawn.

Either that or max death 1 although you may not draw enough crowd for a good game.